11 Lies Netanyahu Told Congress on Iran
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I remember when the UK Government finally admitted that Iraq had chemical and biological weapons that it could deploy within 45 minutes.
That went well, I felt.
F1jocker12
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F1jocker12
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Because Israel is going to go out right now and just bomb the heck out of Iran, Egypt, Syria, etc.
Do you think that the people running Israel are 6 year olds? They've had these weapons for almost 50 years and never used them.
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Speaking of having the "curiousity to read", you seem to have not read any one of the three warnings I've given you about double-posting. I wonder why that is.
I suspect you missed the point of my post. One government "admitting" to the contents of the armoury of another is not exactly what one can call confirmation. Mind you, even if it were I wouldn't care in the slightest as Israel is not signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and can, quite clearly, possess a nuclear arsenal if it feels like it.
F1jocker12
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Just like the critter and @Famine, we're all waiting for you to answer the questions, and for those answers to be related to the questions asked.
F1jocker12
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I am not asking anybody to read those links if they are not interested. Sounds sarcastic because of the internet, but I cannot fix that. It is totally up to you if you read it or not, but if you don't, than we have no common ground to comment. That's all.
With posting you are right, but the machine I'm posting now does not have a proper mouse and all I save as a "quote" it's not an option to include in my further comments... really sorry about that.... I imagine you might see it annoying but it is what it is... I get to answer one comment at the time, and if you decide to merge them, please do it on your end... I'll try my best... and hope every participating individual see's my answers as addressed to them not as isolated comments...
You like to have a discussion about the details, which is very good for the accuracy, but that moves you away from the general image.. My initial point... How Bibi is lying to the entire world.
Of course, the dynamic change after the elections, and will be interesting to see how Israel will respond after palestinians will join ICC (International Criminal Court) and address all the crimes against humanity done by Israel in Gaza Strip.
Bibi doesn't understand that, without US support (which he threw in the garbage, sort to speak), he will not be able to lie forever.
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Nope. You get to do what you've been told to do.
Use the +Quote button to queue replies and the Insert Quotes function to add them to a reply en masse. Or highlight portions of text and select Quote or Reply. Or manually copy and paste. Keep double-posting and I'll keep issuing infractions for ignoring staff instruction.
I don't care - he's a politician and it's what they do. Blair lied to the entire world when he said Iraq had WMDs ready with 45 minutes notice - and the subsequent cover-up is amongst the worst crimes against an electorate that has ever occurred.
Israel can have all the nukes it wants. It is not bound by international law not to have or develop them.
F1jocker12
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Do NOT double post - use the Edit button. Ignoring the staff will get you nowhere.
Nobody is here to answer any questions... You might find yourself like those lost in the jungle war survivors, that once found after many years, thought the war was not over yet... Sometimes you just need to move on.
Hamas is an organization not a nation. It is different, and you cannot punish Palestinians for what Hamas has done. Israel is a nation, and unfortunately, israeli's will suffer if international sanctions will be established.
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- 86,235
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If you have an opinion - and you clearly do - you should be willing and able to answer every question easily. I mean, to form the opinion you've already asked them of yourself, right?
Of course if you haven't and have made your mind up solely based on feeling, flat refusing to entertain any dissent, you're just proselytising a religion...
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- Blitzbay
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Except, Hamas is part of the Palestinian Government. It's jointly run. And last I checked Israel is not a part of the ICC so it's ruling is not binding.
Add to that if the ICC finds Palestine OR Hamas at fault for anything, then in order to get their case against Israel heard, they will have to address the changes that they will have to make. When doing things like this it is very possible to incriminate oneself.
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Since you're bringing up sanctions against countries who aren't actually part of the sanctioning body that would impose them, how many sanctions have India and Pakistan had against them for violating the NNPT that they aren't apart of?
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It's perfectly easy to hit Reply to obtain any extra quote, Ctrl+X that quote from the box at the base of the page, then Edit that quote into your existing post. I do that all the time, with or without a mouse.
Untouchable in what way? Palestinians regularly attack them, so how is what you say possible? I doubt you'll answer, of course.
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Well, from a conventional military standpoint, Israel is no doubt the top dog in the region. It (likely) has a nuclear arsenal, and the IDF outmatches and outguns any other similar force in the area.
And as much damage Hamas can do, you can't say it comes even close to the damage Israel can do (and has done in the past, and some may argue is still doing now).
It's not even remotely the same situation. In the case of Iraq, the accusation were pretty shoddy - Iraq'd been embargoed to death, and Saddam's regime didn't have the means to develop unconventional NBC weapons outside the few strains of anthrax the US had gifted them during the Gulf War. End of the fair, the only "evidence" in favor of the outlandish hypothesis that Iraq had WMDs was the Yellocakes dossier, which was a forgery.
On the other hand, the fact that Israel is a nuclear-capable country's an open secret - this is just official confirmation from a source with some authority that yeah, Israel has nuclear weapons. Something we could've inferred since the Vela Incident of 1979, which was likely the result of joint Israeli-South African nuclear tests (and as a matter of fact, South Africa's RSA missiles were closely related to the Jericho family of missiles, produced by Israel).
This still doesn't tell us what's their nuclear policy - although one could speculate that since all they have is medium and intermediate-range payload delivery vehicles (the Jericho II and III missiles, respectively) they intend to strike first at possible regional hostiles, or at the very least, to use the possibility of a nuclear strike as a deterrent from conventional attacks.
It'd be like saying, "hey, ClydeYellow can ban you from GTPlanet in 15 seconds!", and then saying, "Famine can ban you from GTPlanet in 15 seconds". In the second case it's a claim with a lot more credibility, provided by the fact that you are a site admin.
There's also the fact that the US are very unlikely to go to war with Israel because of their unconventional arsenal, since they likely helped to develop it and they are still somewhat supportive of Israel (and I don't see any shift happening in the next ten-twenty years).
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But the only really reliable source for that would be Israel - which has perpetually kept a opaque policy on the topic. They won't say they have them, they won't say they don't. They won't say anything.
In actual fact I'd go a step further than that and say that not even that would be a reliable enough source - after all Kim Jong-bonkers keeps waving his nuclear missiles about - and only an inspection team from the IAEA would suffice. But since Israel isn't signatory to the NNPT there's no need to have them poking about. And actually no reason for the international community to really care - we can't hold them to the terms of a contract they haven't signed.
If Israel does have nuclear weapons, it's the only one of the nuclear powers to never have performed a nuclear weapons test - the Vela Incident is just one of those things oft brought up but never really confirmed any way up. Each of the rest has performed multiple tests (including North Korea's 3) and us Brits even blew up a bit of someone else's country in the process.
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I was answering the claim that they're "untouchable", their everyday touching by Palestine suggests otherwise.
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True. But if you connect the dots, you'll see that it's very likely that Israel has developed a nuclear program, possibly in collaboration with South Africa. Of course this - and by "this", I mean, any talk about Israel being a nuclear State or not - is pure speculation. But one can always make an educated guess.
Surely there's no legal obligation for them to follow international treaties they've never signed. However, this whole situation with Iran would likely be a no-issue if Israel didn't have a possible (and probable) nuclear arsenal. So I must disagree when you say that there's no reason for the international community to care - Israel's nuclear policy is a matter of serious concern.
And I will further clarify my position by saying that yeah, Hamas may touch them, but it's like a mosquito bite: annoying, but completely non-threatening (of course that'd be a different story if the mosquito carried malaria). On the other hand, Israel's response is the equivalent of swatting a newspaper at the mosquito and hitting it.
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Iran has made threats about Israel, even going as far as to saying they will wipe them off the face of the Earth. Israel has never made such threats about Iran (or anyone, that I can recall).
Would you rather Israel ignored it and just took all of the attacks on it's country and people as consequences of living there?
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Why?
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Actually, this is a case of a sentence that's been lost in translation, much like Khrushchev's famous "we will bury you". Iran's policy is in line with that of a country that has little interest in attacking Israel, and is also afraid of the possibility of getting nuked (or bombed in the Bronze Age) for their troubles.
No. But I'd rather people took into consideration the asymmetry of the situation - Israel is under no treat of a serious military offensive, unless you want to consider the occasional desperados launching home-made rockets or suicide-bombing bus stops as such.
Because if Israel has nukes, and doesn't have a clear nuclear policy, then those weapons may be used in a first strike against targets whose military legimacy could be considered as doubtful. Hell, for all we know, Israel may have a significant nuclear arsenal under the Prime Minister's discretional authority.
A first strike would precipitate the situation in the Middle East, making **** hit the fan at relativistic speeds. Remember what happened after the Yom Kippur War? Yeah, now add nukes to the scenario and see what happens.
Of course policies can be disattended, but it's better than the possibility of a country giving access to ICBMs to a madman without a watchman guarding him.
It's almost as if being able to protect yourself and your citizens is a bad thing
With nukes? It is a bad thing. Besides, I am mostly concerned with the possibility of Israeli nuclear weapons being used offensively. As I've already said, I don't believe Israel needs nukes to protect themselves from the forces that currently threaten their security.
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VolkswagenX
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Saying it was "lost in translations" lets some GTP posters of the hook easy. The "blow of Israel of the map" myth has been debunken so many times (and on GTP) that anyone still telling this story must be actively lying and should be ashamed.
squadops
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There is a whole pot load of similar quotes from news sites across the political spectrum, here are a few.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/ahmadin...erence-israel-will-soon-be-wiped-out-1.206977
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008...3245220080514?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/ahmadinejad-jerusalem-key-worlds-problems
http://www.arabnews.com/middle-east/’tumor’-israel-will-soon-be-destroyed-ahmadinejad
Personally I don't think it's as big a deal as some, but he does say this sort of thing on a regular basis.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/ahmadin...erence-israel-will-soon-be-wiped-out-1.206977
http://www.reuters.com/article/2008...3245220080514?feedType=RSS&feedName=worldNews
http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/ahmadinejad-jerusalem-key-worlds-problems
http://www.arabnews.com/middle-east/’tumor’-israel-will-soon-be-destroyed-ahmadinejad
Personally I don't think it's as big a deal as some, but he does say this sort of thing on a regular basis.
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- TenEightyOne
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How do you know that they don't have a clear nuclear policy? Has anything in Israel's history suggested to you that their military is particularly disorganised?
May, yes. Will would be something completely different. Nobody develops, builds or stores nuclear products without being keenly aware of what they do and what happens if you detonate it nearby.
There's little doubt in (the remnants of) my mind that they do have at least wing-borne nuclear weapons, I'm less convinced that they can have them on rockets. But why shouldn't those be at the discretional authority of the countries leaders? If not then who should be in charge of them?
Do you think that if Israel were part of a nuclear treaty that they'd pass all decisions by the board if push came to shove? Of course they wouldn't, and nor would we.
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