1886 Motor Carriage around the 'ring! (in about 2 days)

[Jinx]

Whoa... you are crazy man. congrats to you guys.

good job james what you did make a thread story! thats amazing.

 

[RenesisEvo]

I don't feel at all happy... I've had to abandon the run. 🤬

It took 2hours to get the 1886 Wagen to the finish line just to start the lap, and after a T1 time of 2min14 I got badly stuck on the first hill. I couldn't pendulum it at all - the track is slightly curved, but thats too much of a curve for the wagen. If I kept it rolling backward and forward between the middle of the track and the side with the fence, I made barely tangible progress - sometimes, it would come to a complete halt. I tried going a little bit futher out, and it rolls to the other side - and gets well and truely stuck. The only way to get moving again (moving lol - yeah right) is to steer the thing back down hill... so it's 1 inch forward, 5 feet backwards. After the third time I ended up back down the hill, I was soo pissed off I had to give it in, to save my PS2 and TV from imminent destruction. It had also taken 80mins to go that far (on the lap time that is, looking at 3 1/2 hours or so total) - the time set by Mezar5 outdoes that by miles.

I'm gonna have to leave it for a while, just to stop my head exploding. Where's my Minolta...

 

[seansheep]

i tried it but gave up after the first corner..... it topped out at 12mph for me and then wouldnt go above 8mph

 

[Mezar5]

It had also taken 80mins to go that far (on the lap time that is, looking at 3 1/2 hours or so total) - the time set by Mezar5 outdoes that by miles.

I did mine in Arcade mode.

 

[Caio]

OMG WTF. The most interesting post, and the funniest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Specialized]

I think it's the only car in GT4 (hang on what about the 3 wheeled one of similar vintage?) that actually goes faster backwards than forwards (damn engine braking!). This is where a clutch would've been handy.

I may be wrong but there is a clutch system built into GT4 and 3 if i remember, all you have to do is tap O quickly and it takes the car out of gear. Now lets see how fast the blighter goes downhill!!!

 

[James2097]

I may be wrong but there is a clutch system built into GT4 and 3 if i remember, all you have to do is tap O quickly and it takes the car out of gear. Now lets see how fast the blighter goes downhill!!!

I have been informed of this quite early on in the thread... thanks anyway.
All the recent times (in fact everyone's but mine ) use forwards freewheeling... its an integral part of the techinque these days!
They go surprisingly fast for just rolling, also! (you can kinda "drift" some turns) 👍

Also, maybe GT Mode is asking a bit too much of the Wagon? However remember I did say this quite adamantly about the Carriage too! - I hope its possible, it would be SO annoying to find it wasn't possible (a bit of a let down!) after the Carriage got around alright!

 

[RenesisEvo]

Well I've decided that I'll try it in a week or so, when i get some more time - got genuine driving to deal with first.

You are right james2097 - it would be a monster let down - my run today was for me!! I think putting the TCS down might help - although I'll have less grip, the extra power not taken by the AI should help it get over the curvature of the roads. I say less grip - its not like there is any in the first place I suppose. It's just the first few times I ran it up the hill before the start, it when farthest with TCS=10, and nowhere with TCS=1. So I'll try 5 - I do remember not having that bad a time with that setting when I did a trial in PhotoMode. We'll see what happens next time only when I hit the Karussell's steep hill will I know if it's possible or not.

Re: the clutch - yes, tapping circle gives you a 40+mph freewheel in the 1886 Wagen. Haven't actually driven the carriage yet.

 

[superhodge]

I remember someone stating that it was "impossible" to get the Daimler-Benz motor carriage around the Nurburgring

I said something like that. well done

 

[Mezar5]

I thought it was decided that the best way was to use no driving assitance at all. That is how I always do it in Arcade Mode. Is it different in GT mode so that you need at least some TCS?

 

[thegreatms]

In arcade I always run with tcs on and acs off (I also boost the power, lower weight and use SS tires). In GT I think I set tcs to 1 and acs to 0.

Right now I'm running in arcade, just got to the first hill. I figure its best to learn how to run a lap in arcade where it is easier. Then try for the ultimate lap in GT. Remember the carriage time for GT was almost 3 times higher then it was in arcade: 580 minutes. I would have never been able to do the carriage in GT without first learning the arcade lap really well.

The wagon definitely freewheels better; I got way up the first hill, past the start of the start of the graffiti. I never got to the graffiti in the carriage. I think this helps on most of the course where you go up and down a lot; but on the long uphill on the back stretch the pendulum-ing weakness really hurts you. I think the lower power makes it a bad pendulumer. Power is .75 instead of 1.09, that is a big drop in power, over 30% drop.

 

[Mezar5]

Good analysis of the power. That probably explains it. I am very interested in your experience on the steep part of the long hill after Karusel. If you can, try to give me a land mark in relation to where you switch from backing toward the outside of the track to the inside of the track.

Thanks.

 

[RenesisEvo]

The wagon definitely freewheels better; I got way up the first hill, past the start of the start of the graffiti. I never got to the graffiti in the carriage. I think this helps on most of the course where you go up and down a lot; but on the long uphill on the back stretch the pendulum-ing weakness really hurts you. I think the lower power makes it a bad pendulumer. Power is .75 instead of 1.09, that is a big drop in power, over 30% drop.

Agreed - the free-wheeling does get it surprisingly far - but I kept dropping back trying in vain to pendulum the thing. I may have to take your advice and try an modified arcade lap first, to see how things go, then try ultimate again later.

 

[Mezar5]

Since everyone seems to be having and simular experience, I wonder if my time will be competitve in the Wagon.

 

[James2097]

Since everyone seems to be having and simular experience, I wonder if my time will be competitve in the Wagon.

Its not competitive at all! Just a hopeless effort Mezar!!👎

Maybe the fact there aren't any other Wagon times to compete against so far might have something to do with it..

Obviously you got the best (& only) time so far 👍

 

[franz]

will b-spec bob do a great job with this mission?
probably he will brake and lose the momentum

 

[RenesisEvo]

will b-spec bob do a great job with this mission?
probably he will brake and lose the momentum

B-spec drivers would simply find themselves rolling backward and forward at the bottom of any steep hills. I doubt they'd ever get the thing around the lap.

 

[MSHBKS34]

I drove my Model T around Nurburgring. I think the fastest I went was downhill at like 65mph.. I think I got it done in like an hour and a couple minutes. But I am not THAT bored to take the 1886 Carriage around Nurburgring. After the first time section, I think I'd go bonkers and quit. And about the clutch system, I am not sure if that is true. Hitting circle quickly? That's just basically hitting the handbrake.. unless I am wrong.

 

[James2097]

The handbrake freewheeling trick is well documented (many including myself have used it extensively), also b-spec Bob can't get to the start line - why do people keep bringing this up? Unless "Bob" can use quite tricky techniques to get around the lap (the point of this whole thread...) he'll be about as useful as a condom vending machine in the vatican.

 

[MSHBKS34]

The handbrake freewheeling trick is well documented (many including myself have used it extensively), also b-spec Bob can't get to the start line - why do people keep bringing this up? Unless "Bob" can use quite tricky techniques to get around the lap (the point of this whole thread...) he'll be about as useful as a condom vending machine in the vatican.

hahahahahhaa I didn't use B-Spec mode though.. I actually drove it..

 

[James2097]

hahahahahhaa I didn't use B-Spec mode though.. I actually drove it..

I know, I was just replying in a general way to what yourself AND Franz brought up. 👍

 

[MSHBKS34]

I know, I was just replying in a general way to what yourself AND Franz brought up. 👍

ohhhh, gotcha. 👍

 

[MSHBKS34]

When you do that little clutch trick, do you take your finger off the throttle??

 

[MSHBKS34]

nevermind, figured it out..

 

[LennysEleven]

Can the Benz be modified if you win it?

 

[James2097]

Can the Benz be modified if you win it?

Oh yes, you can put on a huge wing and Nitros Oxide tanks and a stage 4 turbo with a racing intercooler. Its 'one' cylinder runs a bit rough after this, but it generates at least 500hp. Considering the gear ratios this really gives it a lot of torque!

The correct answer to pretty much any basic question you might want to know regarding the 'carriage' will be in this thread somewhere, if you care to look.

 

[RenesisEvo]

There is one modification you can make - you can give it a rollcage with the speeds it free-wheels, it might be advisable to get one...

on a more serious note, I've no idea whether this modification does it any good or harm. I might win myself a 2nd Wagen and see if there is a difference.

 

[Mezar5]

Do the modifications in GT mocde effect the cars in Arcade mode.

 

[thegreatms]

I don't know why, but I just could not get up the final steep hill after Karusel. Perhaps this car coasts better than the carriage but doesn't pendulum as well.

For the part about that hill after the karusel; I made a little write-up about how I went at it:

Technique at the steepest part of the track, the hill after karusel:

Track has the left then right turn that is steep and banked. The left turn has curbing on the outside of the ring and curb goes about 10 red squares past end of turn. Then is no curbing on either side for a short bit; followed by tan/flat curbing on then right before it turns into the white/red curbing for the right-hander. The crux of this problem is the timing and method of switching from backing to inside of track to backing to the outside of track. My basic method is to get as far as I can when backing to the inside.

How far I get backing to inside: The wagon is centered on the second white square of the right curbing.

At this point I make my turn. I give it full gas while pointing downhill a little to get as much speed a possible. Then when at 4-5 mph and getting close to the far fence, I turn hard right. Trying to get at far around as possible. When is stop moving I hit the brakes; turn the wheel all the way left, then let it roll back to the outside fence.

At this point looking behind me I am one pole above where the guardrail changes from light gray to dark gray. Then I proceed as normal, creeping up the hill.

...If I would go full throttle, the car would red line and slow down to 4 to 5 mph for a bit and then get back up to 11mph. If I controled the throttle to just below red line, the car would run a constant 8 mph (on the final straight at least).

I don't hold it just below the red color on the rpm, I hold it just below the "real redline" where the engine cuts out. With practice I can keep my speed at 10 mph of the straight and never trigger the redline cut out. It happens at over 11mph. I use the analog stick to keep throttle at about 85% and just keep adjusting while watching in the little rpm meter (not the tach, the crappy line one has better resolution on this car), I try to keep 4-5 lights in the redline lit up, engine cuts out at about 6-7 lights.

I running in arcade as we speak, hopefully will be done today.

 

[thegreatms]

i just finished the wagon in arcade mode, here is my splits with my notes:

Motor wagon in arcade; only tcs

T1 2'11.809 @37mph
Drove past start of white graffiti
7’16.927 when fully backed up; back right tire just above start of red graffiti
12’46.977 over 1st hill
T2 17’22.7637 @ 50mph
T3 18’XX.XX @ 19mph (gave a little gas on hill)
T4 20’19.842 @ 33mph (braked too light: to 40 mph; skidded out. 29<mph<40)
over hill 24’04
next hill by 30’43.510 (on second part back up to inside of ring, before inside guard rail)
T5 31’50.494 @ 3mph
48’12.3 just to 12km sign with log building across street
before first left turn switch to backing up to the inside of ring
71’16.3 fully by metal wire fence on left
80’01.6 just to beginning of second left curbing
90’26.093 fully by little telephone booth thingy at third left
T6 93’43.309 @ 3mph
tack back/forth from before t6, till just past small wire metal fence on right and shadows in road on left. back to inside
100’54 over little crest of hill; full gas, then pendulum with alternating back up no, tack
107’25 over long hill
hill to carousel gas to VW, few pendulums back to inside of ring, then tack up entire hill
114’32 @ 7mph enter carousel
use top of carousel ( smoother ) freewheel out, leaving carousel at 12 mph.
124’22 fully by start of red/white curbing on first left turn (back to inside)
135’23 fully by wood shack on left at gentle left curve
147’41 wheel just touches white graffiti at steep left-hander
157’12 switch done; back to curbing on steep right then switch and back to outside
175’36 over long and steep
T7 176’08.919 @12mph
free wheel, no brakes. short hill: tricky, back to outside, use as much room as possible
179'41 over short hill
T8 179’53.206 @11mph free wheel through T9
T9 181’46.052 @22mph
187’18 little hill before banked left, back to inside of ring ~10X, TO STEEP TO TACK!
free wheel for bit, gas through banked turn, then free wheel again, small hill before last right before straight, no tacking, more efficient to pendulum
193’28 over hill, free wheel
T10 194’48.472 @23mph
T11 200’53’000 @10mph
208’57.442 DONE!


with a little more work I bet it could go below 200'.

on to gt...