2009 Bahrain Grand Prix

[Clark]

Weights just in.

Pos Driver Team Weight (kg)
1. Trulli Toyota 648.5
2. Glock Toyota 643.0
3. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 659.0
4. Button Brawn-Mercedes 652.5
5. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 652.5
6. Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 649.0
7. Alonso Renault 650.5
8. Massa Ferrari 664.5
9. Rosberg Williams-Toyota 670.5
10. Raikkonen Ferrari 671.5
11. Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 678.5
12. Nakajima Williams-Toyota 680.9
13. Kubica BMW-Sauber 698.6
14. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber 696.3
15. Piquet Renault 677.6
16. Sutil Force India-Mercedes 679.0
17. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 678.5
18. Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 652.0
19. Webber Red Bull-Renault 656.0
20. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari 667.5


Glad to see that the two Ferrari's are heavier than the guys ahead.

 

[Stevisiov]

Interesting, I didn't expect the Ferrari's to be so heavy. The Toyota's are light as expected, fuel corrected It looks like Vettel is faster than Trulli. Surprised to see Hamilton ahead just behind button with the same fuel load, looks like Barrichello slipped up a bit.

 

[Clark]

Well, I was optimistic today. The Ferrari's looked reasonable out there. The Brawns however, were (in relation to their previous form) struggling, I never though they'd be that light.

JB agrees too.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74803

 

[zed300]

Vettel is looking very strong.

Suprising the Brawns and Lewis, aren't carrying that much more than Trulli.

The Ferrari's look almost too heavy to be a chance at better than 6th. If they are more than 1.2 seconds off the pace, they will miss the pitstop advantage after 20 laps.

 

[chrisbroughton]

The F1 website says there may be sandstorms tomorrow.

It's only a possibility but if there is this would probably be the strangest start of all time to a season - 2 wet races and this.

Fingers crossed it won't happen as it would be a shame for Toyotas efforts to be wasted with a cancelled race.

 

[Sureboss]

It's the middle east, there's a risk of sandstorms every day.

 

[Stevisiov]

The F1 website says there may be sandstorms tomorrow.

It's only a possibility but if there is this would probably be the strangest start of all time to a season - 2 wet races and this.

Fingers crossed it won't happen as it would be a shame for Toyotas efforts to be wasted with a cancelled race.

How serious may it be, do you have a link?

 

[icelt]

How serious may it be, do you have a link?

Weather underground predicts at the airport that wind speeds will reach upwards of 22mph Sunday afternoon. Whether that's fast enough to create a sandstorm I have no idea. Also I'm not certain how close the airport is to the track but I assume it can't be all that far away.

Edit...
Ok, looks like the track is 30km South of the capital city, Manama, where the airport is located.

 

[mPWRD]

So a Toyota front row... but Vettel right behind them. This could be interesting....

 

[Ardius]

Well, with two teams taking their first wins as well as being 1-2s in this season, I think Toyota are going to have 1-2 somewhere down the line, just lik RBR and Brawn they have the drivers and cars capable of such a feat as well as the strategies. Perhaps not in Bahrain, but eventually we will see Toyota get their long-due win and it seems chances are high for a 1-2 the way things are going.

So, I predict Trulli for a run at a win.

I also hope Williams get their act together sharpish, they have a great car but are making bad or unlucky decisions too much, they need to stop doing light-fuel runs in practice and start sorting out their race strategies and their Q3 loads as they can get into Q3 quite easily.
Also, someone needs to give Nakajima some help, as the guy clearly has some speed but always at the wrong moments.

What? The Toyota's are well up to pace..

Glock has finished in the points in two races now where he started from the pitlane. Trulli had a bad race in Shanghai but it isn't his best track by any means and he isn't a brilliant wet driver in the first place.

But in dry conditions without rediculous amounts of safety cars, the Toyota's are going to be up there. They are not even that weak on strategy, at least not as much as Williams is right now.

I think Trulli and Glock could easily hold up their own against the likes of Button, Vettel, Webber and Barrichello - I'm starting to get the distinct impression people are under-rating this team, especially Glock somehow.

What can I say?

I still feel it was pretty inevitable though....I mean have people not learnt Toyota's pace this year yet? Even in China Glock had his moment!

Legard has noticably left Glock off his top 8 drivers list..bad mistake. Glock has quite simply been driver of the year so far for me and it seems he will also be the quietest driver of the year too because he seems to get barely any recognition.

I really hope Toyota win with a 1-2 tomorrow with either Glock or Trulli winning, they deserve it after this very long wait and also to perhaps finally make people give them a little recognition as real contenders.

(and yes, I do realise I sound like Eddie Jordan here, lol - perhaps I agree with him for once )

 

[Bram Turismo]

I was very surprised to see Glock running lighter, yet being 0.3 seconds behind Trulli in Q3... Trulli also reported that the car drives better with more fuel, so if he doesn't struggle with the braking problems he had in Q3, I say Trulli can do the job.

@Ardius:

I agree that many speak too little of Glock, but he does have his share of bad luck, which might be the cause of this. I've been a huge fan of Glock already since 2008, where he began to show some serious pace if his car allowed him to do so. This year is just the same, Glock has either been penalized or he had difficulties in qualifying session. I'm anxious to see as to what he'll pull off tomorrow as his race pace can be more than very impressive at times.

 

[Stevisiov]

I was very surprised to see Glock running lighter, yet being 0.3 seconds behind Trulli in Q3... Trulli also reported that the car drives better with more fuel, so if he doesn't struggle with the braking problems he had in Q3, I say Trulli can do the job.

@Ardius:

I agree that many speak too little of Glock, but he does have his share of bad luck, which might be the cause of this. I've been a huge fan of Glock already since 2008, where he began to show some serious pace if his car allowed him to do so. This year is just the same, Glock has either been penalized or he had difficulties in qualifying session. I'm anxious to see as to what he'll pull off tomorrow as his race pace can be more than very impressive at times.

Glock mentioned he made a mistake on his flying lap, so presumably that has a lot to do with it.

 

[Ardius]

I agree luck plays a part and also he seems to shine while others are also shining, and so gets easily overlooked. Like in China for example, his charge up to a points position was barely noticed until he battled Heidfeld and the McLarens.
He also obviously has a bad rep just for the now famous Hamilton pass.

 

[Hyst]

People should also remember that Glock is by no means a rookie or inexperienced driver. Obviously he's part of the younger generation but he spent time with Jordan in 2004, had a year in Champ Car, GP2 etc.

 

[Stevisiov]

I agree luck plays a part and also he seems to shine while others are also shining, and so gets easily overlooked. Like in China for example, his charge up to a points position was barely noticed until he battled Heidfeld and the McLarens.
He also obviously has a bad rep just for the now famous Hamilton pass.

I don't think many people hold a grudge over Glock for Hamilton's pass, except well idiots who don't understand how bad having the wrong tyres in rainy conditions really can be.

For me I think its because Glock is generally overshadowed by Trulli in qualifying, people just assume trulli is faster, when in reality Glock has a better race pace most of the time, particularly in the wet.

 

[Ardius]

People should also remember that Glock is by no means a rookie or inexperienced driver. Obviously he's part of the younger generation but he spent time with Jordan in 2004, had a year in Champ Car, GP2 etc.

Of course....but that doesn't mean he should be ignored when it comes to considering who has potential for race wins this year.....I think he is very likely especially tomorrow.

 

[Metar]

Missed qualifying, sadly, but found out I gained premium, courtesy of Dunc.

I don't think many people hold a grudge over Glock for that pass, except well idiots who don't understand how bad
having the wrong tyres in rainy conditions really can be.

I'm still holding a grudge against Hamilton for his pass on Glock at Monza, though. Looks like it taught Glock a dirty lesson or two, because he's now doing those same types of overtaking maneuvres.

 

[Peter]

I predict Vettel coliding with 1 of the toyotas at the start at turn 1. He's going to try get ahead of them and damage his front wing.

 

[Stevisiov]

Hamilton's overtake was on Glock was dirty, but its a bit beside the point.

 

[Ardius]

I predict Vettel coliding with 1 of the toyotas at the start at turn 1. He's going to try get ahead of them and damage his front wing.

I'd give him a little more intelligence than that, even with the Kubica incident.
Though there will be a turn 1 incident, but more likely further down the grid.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

What do Red Bull know that Brawn don't? Vettel's seven kilograms heavier than Button, the first time this season that someone in the top ten has started heavier than a Brawn and been in front of them. Maybe Sakhir favours heavier cars for some reason ...

 

[Ardius]

Both Brawn drivers admitted a lack of grip and to be fair, the RBRs have looked stronger so far at the faster circuits (Malaysia, China now Bahrain) whereas the Brawn looked most dominant in Australia, where its a little more technical.

I don't think the Brawn's are totally out of it still though, remember Button's pace in Malaysia between pit stops? He's not entirely out of contention and this is certainly not the big decline people on other forums are crying about.

 

[Stevisiov]

What do Red Bull know that Brawn don't? Vettel's seven kilograms heavier than Button, the first time this season that someone in the top ten has started heavier than a Brawn and been in front of them. Maybe Sakhir favours heavier cars for some reason ...

If it did, then the Ferrari's would sitting on pole.

A car may work better when heavier, that doesn't translate to faster lap time when heavy though. The brawn works well with high fuel loads but it laps quicker when its light as possible, it just means that the brawn car looses less time when fully fuelled relative to other cars that are fully fulled. A car doesn't go faster because its heavier, weight is a disadvantage. The RBR is quicker (over one hot lap) than the Brawn at Bahrain, it has nothing to do with fuel, fuel corrected the RBR has an even bigger advantage over brawn. As a Redbull and Torro Rosso fan, I can see this as great news.

Vettel said the car hasn't had much updated since last week, Its unlikely that brawn have made the car worse since last week. It probably has everything to do with the RBR being better suited to the track.

[edit] as Ardius said, its a faster track than melborne where we saw brawn with its dry weather advantage.

I expect brawn to win Catalunya and Monaco.

 

[Peter]

So can we call 2009 "The Mid-Fielders Strike Back"? Or is it too early for it?

And also I want to hear you guys' thoughts on how ferrari is going to do this weekend.
Will they win?
Will they podium?
Will they score points?
Or will they let us down again?

 

[Bram Turismo]

Red Bull have surprised me to be honest. If they get that Newey designed diffuser on that car, Vettel's wings will get even larger...

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If it did, then the Ferrari's would sitting on pole.

My statement assumed that the person in question had a good car to begin with, something the Ferrari F60 is not.

A car may work better when heavier, that doesn't translate to faster lap time when heavy though. The brawn works well with high fuel loads but it laps quicker when its light as possible, it just means that the brawn car looses less time when fully fuelled relative to other cars that are fully fulled. A car doesn't go faster because its heavier, weight is a disadvantage. The RBR is quicker (over one hot lap) than the Brawn at Bahrain, it has nothing to do with fuel, fuel corrected the RBR has an even bigger advantage over brawn. As a Redbull and Torro Rosso fan, I can see this as great news.

Vettel said the car hasn't had much updated since last week, Its unlikely that brawn have made the car worse since last week. It probably has everything to do with the RBR being better suited to the track.

Maybe Button has admitted they're no longer the class act of 2009, but he's also said they have pretty good long-term pace in Bahrain. He and Barrichello may have finished fifteenth and sixteenth in the final practice session, but they never ran the super-soft tyre compound and they concentrated on race setup.

And also I want to hear you guys' thoughts on how ferrari is going to do this weekend.
Will they win?

Tell him he's dreaming.

Will they podium?

Marginally more likely than a win. Which is to say not at all.

Will they score points?

Givn their past performances and Domenicalli's admission that they will struggle this weekend, what do you think?

Or will they let us down again?

Depends upon you definition of Ferrari letting you down. I know that after their dominance in the Age of Schumacher, a lot of people disliked Maranello - and again after the Nigel Stepney fiasco - so the definition of Ferrari letting people down might range from them doing poorly to them doing well. But personally, I think Ferrari are going to be stuggling to get both cars in the top ten.

 

[Stevisiov]

So can we call 2009 "The Mid-Fielders Strike Back"? Or is it too early for it?

And also I want to hear you guys' thoughts on how ferrari is going to do this weekend.
Will they win?
Will they podium?
Will they score points?
Or will they let us down again?

Honest opinion I am expecting 5 or 6 points between the two of them, a podium is a bit hopeful even with them being heaviest.

Red Bull have surprised me to be honest. If they get that Newey designed diffuser on that car, Vettel's wings will get even larger...

+1

My statement assumed that the person in question had a good car to begin with, something the Ferrari F60 is not.

True.

Maybe Button has admitted they're no longer the class act of 2009, but he's also said they have pretty good long-term pace in Bahrain. He and Barrichello may have finished fifteenth and sixteenth in the final practice session, but they never ran the super-soft tyre compound and they concentrated on race setup.

Sorry if I miss interpreted you, from your first post appeared that you were suggesting that the reason RBR are faster than brawn, is because they are fuelled heavier and the track may suit the heavier car.

If that's not what you meant I am sorry I misinterpreted it.

 

[Peter]

Ok, Ferrari is in a good position to score some points ore(as unbelievable it is) podium tomorrow. If Massa and Raikkonen both get great starts, reliability doesn't let them down, and they don't screw up, Massa gets 4th and Raikkonen 6th or better.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Ok, Ferrari is in a good position to score some points ore(as unbelievable it is) podium tomorrow. If Massa and Raikkonen both get great starts, reliability doesn't let them down, and they don't screw up, Massa gets 4th and Raikkonen 6th or better.

I'm smelling a lot of 'if'' coming off that plan, and given Ferrari's performances in the past three races, I think they're going to be up the proverbial creek.

 

[SagarisGTB]

The Toyota's are light as expected, fuel corrected It looks like Vettel is faster than Trulli.

On no track does 10.5kg lead to 6 tenths. Trulli was fastest by atleast a few tenths even with the most optomistic of feul corrections.