2009 Chinese Grand Prix – Can anyone stop Brawn?

  • Thread starter Blake
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They would to get the diffuser to work properly with their cars though, and with no testing that is no small task.
 
I don't think it's going to be as big a deal as some people think it will be. The designers would have to have a pretty good eye for these things - after all, everyone made wing-bridges last year within weeks of McLaren showing up with one - so redesigning the actual diffuser won't be too much of a problem, especially since a few teams already have one in development. It's rearranging the rear end of he car - gearbox, suspension et al - that it most likely going to provide more problems. It's not like Brawn, Williams and Toyota are going to be in a league of their own for the first half of the season; I'd be very surprised if the likes of Ferrari, BMW, Red Bull and Renault don't have one by the time Spain rolls around.
 
Do you race?
It's rearranging the rear end of he car - gearbox, suspension et al - that it most likely going to provide more problems.
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Which is why it will likely take half a season for the others to catch up... though some are promising to have something within the next two races.
 
Kubica on the other hand is going to try KERS out.

I think we will find that the Ferrari's will be slower without KERS, seeing as their car was designed around it, I don't think the lighter weight will make a significant difference. We shall see though and I'm interested to see what they can do in qualifying and the race, as it should be the opposite of what they've managed so far.

If it means anything, Murray Walker has predicted Timo Glock for the win, lol. Let's see if the commentators curse will strike again.
 
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nissan tuner
Super-soft and Medium tires are going to be used at this weekend's Grand Prix. Unbelievable :dunce:
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Indeed. At least Alonso gave me a laugh out of that:

Double world champion Fernando Alonso is 'very worried' about Bridgestone's decision to bring super-soft compounds as the option tyre for this weekend's Chinese Grand Prix, the Spaniard saying it is entirely unsuited to the abrasive nature of the Shanghai circuit.

The Renault driver claims that the use of the tyre makes the drivers 'look ridiculous' because of the time differential between the option and prime rubber - which was as much as six seconds when the super-soft and hard tyres were used in Australia.

"I think it is the worst decision they made in a long time, because it is a ridiculous tyre for here, for Shanghai," he said.

"I don't know if Bridgestone made the decision or the FIA, but they have to reconsider this type of decision because we look ridiculous on television and we look ridiculous for the spectators, and it is a joke to be in front of TV six seconds slower.

"We will need to change the tyres after five or six laps, is our calculation, because this track is harder than Melbourne and there we only did eight or nine laps.

"And if they want to be funny and mix the results and have overtaking, they can do a better job – a funny solution, maybe they can put us on the wet tyres or something. Like this it looks more spectacular – the difference in the speed. I don't know...

"I'm very worried about this and I'm very sad about this, because we look strange in front of people."

Alonso also revealed that the drivers have not been consulted on which tyres should be used, and added that the Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA) expressed their fears over safety on the issue following the Australian Grand Prix, when Robert Kubica and Sebastian Vettel collided while contesting second place.

"We expressed our concerns after Australia, after the accident of Robert Kubica and Sebastian Vettel – it was due to the difference of the speed," he said.

"He (Kubica) tried to overtake, Vettel was not in control of the car with that tyre, you cannot brake, you cannot turn-in, you cannot do anything. And then Robert had a big crash after that because he damaged the car.

"Then we expressed our concerns and now in the third race we have the same tyre at a worse circuit. This is something that we need to change immediately."

Alonso added that he considered both the super-soft and the hard tyres to be unsuited to Shanghai.

"I think the super-soft on this type of circuit with long, high-speed corners... in Turn 1 it will be destroyed and in Turn 10 there will be no more left tyre.

"One will be too hard and one will be too soft. The right tyre is at home! The soft tyre is at home, and this happened in Australia as well. And the understanding that this is for a better show, for overtaking...

"As I said, for a better show, maybe we can pick up our number and then whoever picks up number 15 can put on wet tyres, or whatever, and it is a better show and it's funny. Like this it is not funny."
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timeattack07gt
I would have to agree with you to an extent, although the Brawn chassis is a far superior design to anything Honda had produced in their F1 days. It's been said that the Honda chassis would had made it to Q3 pretty consistently last season, had they had equal power to that of Ferrari and Mercedes/Mclaren. I believe they were down ~35-40hp last season. So power was definitely a main issue as to why they were no where near competitive in their later years. But it must be said that it was likely not all of their inferiorities, as their aero was still inferior to what Macca and Ferrari had produced, as Do You Race touched on.
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Aren't Brawn's current engineers and designers former engineers from Honda? They bought the team didn't they? Brawn's car is a honda chassis with a mclaren engine isn't it?
 
PJ-FFL
Aren't Brawn's current engineers and designers former engineers from Honda? They bought the team didn't they? Brawn's car is a honda chassis with a mclaren engine isn't it?
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The Honda designer was an idiot though and he has rightly disappeared along with Honda.
 
Ardius
The Honda designer was an idiot though and he has rightly disappeared along with Honda.
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Shuei, "the man with the anti-midas touch", the only man who could look at a car and cause it to lose 20% of it's downforce, the man responsible for the RA07 and RA08 fiascos, disappeared between 2007 and 2008 - and the Honda engineers responsible for the RA09/BGP001 are still present.
 
Looks like Alonso will be testing a new diffusor, and deciding whether to keep it or use the old one before qualifying.

diapo_633.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8002297.stm
 
Metar
Shuei, "the man with the anti-midas touch", the only man who could look at a car and cause it to lose 20% of it's downforce, the man responsible for the RA07 and RA08 fiascos, disappeared between 2007 and 2008 - and the Honda engineers responsible for the RA09/BGP001 are still present.
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But technically they aren't from Honda, they are mostly the BAR-staff some are probably even ex-Tyrrell staff, as in, they've always been there and Honda has little to do with it.
 
Metar
Shuei, "the man with the anti-midas touch", the only man who could look at a car and cause it to lose 20% of it's downforce, the man responsible for the RA07 and RA08 fiascos, disappeared between 2007 and 2008 - and the Honda engineers responsible for the RA09/BGP001 are still present.
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He very quietly jumped ship four days before Honda officially withdrew. Before that he'd mostly been involved in deigning Honda's racing bikes, but he had played a part in Honda's still-born RA099 project. Maybe the RA107 and 108 would have been competitive then ...
Ardius
But technically they aren't from Honda, they are mostly the BAR-staff some are probably even ex-Tyrrell staff, as in, they've always been there and Honda has little to do with it.
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Actually, I think there's one or two major guys that they poached from the likes of Williams and BMW when they realised the RA-series was ging to need all the help it could get.
 
Do you race?
He very quietly jumped ship four days before Honda officially withdrew. Before that he'd mostly been involved in deigning Honda's racing bikes, but he had played a part in Honda's still-born RA099 project. Maybe the RA107 and 108 would have been competitive then ...
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Indeed - he was shifted off just after the 2008 season started.

Do you race?
Actually, I think there's one or two major guys that they poached from the likes of Williams and BMW when they realised the RA-series was ging to need all the help it could get.
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Yup - Geoff Willis, Williams designer. Quite a good one, at that.
 
Metar
Yup - Geoff Willis, Williams designer. Quite a good one, at that.
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Wasn't Willis the designer of the RA106 who left mid-season after a spat with Nick Fry - before Button's maiden victory in Hungary - and was replaced by Nakamoto when he was snapped up by Red Bull? Nakamoto developed the RA107, but when it performed so poorly, Honda scrambled to find people who could rectify the problem (I'm not sure how true the story was that the car's bad aerodynamics were a byproduct of a poorly-calibrated wind tunnel), and they got Loic Bigois and Jorg Zander, the latter of whom was promoted to lead designer for the BGP-001.
 
Practice One results at Shanghai.

1 Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1:37.334
2 Jenson Button Brawn-Mercedes 1:37.450
3 Rubens Barrichello Brawn-Mercedes 1:37.566
4 Heikki Kovalainen McLaren-Mercedes 1:37.672
5 Mark Webber RBR-Renault 1:37.752
6 Jarno Trulli Toyota 1:37.764
7 Nico Rosberg Williams-Toyota 1:37.860
8 Timo Glock Toyota 1:37.894
9 Fernando Alonso Renault 1:38.089
10 Sebastien Bourdais STR-Ferrari 1:38.195
11 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:38.223
12 Sebastian Vettel RBR-Renault 1:38.274
13 Sebastien Buemi STR-Ferrari 1:38.307
14 Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1:38.319
15 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1:38.418
16 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber 1:38.456
17 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India-Mercedes 1:38.460
18 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber 1:38.463
19 Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1:38.730
20 Nelsinho Piquet Renault 1:38.825
 
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[FPV]Rusty;3367334
most the drivers set their fastest lap times earlier in the session, and couldn't better them in their final runs.
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not really surprised by that. i think most of the teams werent to worried about setting fast times more of just setting a consistent race pace time with the new parts they where testing. i wonder what we are going to see from McLaren as the weekend goes on with the new diffuser. also with kubica running Kers if it will better his chances this week or not. but looking at this practice session i dont think hes getting along well with the kers.
 
I hope this isn't an early renaissance for McLaren. I was very happy with a championship that was not dominated by silver and red cars, thank you.
 
It's FP1. That's not a McLaren Renaissance yet - Heikki tested the Malaysia-spec car, and still ended up 4th, and Hamilton had an interim double-decker (one-and-a-half-decker?). That's low-fuel runs at a good time.

Do you race?
Wasn't Willis the designer of the RA106 who left mid-season after a spat with Nick Fry - before Button's maiden victory in Hungary - and was replaced by Nakamoto when he was snapped up by Red Bull? Nakamoto developed the RA107, but when it performed so poorly, Honda scrambled to find people who could rectify the problem (I'm not sure how true the story was that the car's bad aerodynamics were a byproduct of a poorly-calibrated wind tunnel), and they got Loic Bigois and Jorg Zander, the latter of whom was promoted to lead designer for the BGP-001.
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Indeed, I'm mistaken. It was Zander who did the Williams -> BMW -> Honda route, and responsible for the RA09/BGP001, and Willis is at Red Bull. Nakamoto was still responsible for the RA08, though.

SUPER NUMBBER
No diffuser for Ferrari? Massa had an awful practice...
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Nope, Renault and McLaren are the only ones to debut new interim diffusers.
 
Ooooh, P2 is throwing up some VERY interesting standings! Right now it is Brawn, Brawn, Red Bull, Red Bull, Toyota, Williams, Toyota, Williams. Also, Fisichella spun his Force India on softs, which on BBC Sport Ian Phillips, "Spots some tired tyres."

Edit: In other News, Sutil in 10th!
 
Current Leaderboard:

1 J Button Brawn
2 N Rosberg Williams
3 R Barrichello Brawn
4 M Webber Red Bull
5 S Vettel Red Bull
6 J Trulli Toyota
7 K Nakajima Williams
8 T Glock Toyota
9 H Kovalainen McLaren
10 S Bourdais Toro Rosso
11 A Sutil Force India
12 F Massa Ferrari
13 L Hamilton McLaren
14 K Raikkonen Ferrari
15 S Buemi Toro Rosso
16 N Piquet Jr Renault
17 R Kubica BMW Sauber
18 N Heidfeld BMW Sauber
19 F Alonso Renault
20 G Fisichella Force India
 
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Swap the top two; JB just did the third sector in under forty-two seconds for the first time this session and got 0.2 on Barrichello's time for it.
 

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