2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[YSSMAN]

...Kinda like "por-shh" and "por-sha," the last being the "correct" way to pronounce it.

I think we (between American and the UK, hell even New Zeland and Australia) all say the names differently. It comes down to your own area's accent, and how the language works out. I personally hate the way Britons pronounce "Prius," sounds more like "Pry-us" than the way we say it, "Pre-us."

...Then there is the whole "aluminum" thing...

 

[Wolfe]

...Kinda like "por-shh" and "por-sha," the last being the "correct" way to pronounce it.

I think we (between American and the UK, hell even New Zeland and Australia) all say the names differently. It comes down to your own area's accent, and how the language works out. I personally hate the way Britons pronounce "Prius," sounds more like "Pry-us" than the way we say it, "Pre-us."

...Then there is the whole "aluminum" thing...

As long as we can all agree that the plural of "Prius" should be "Priii," I'm happy.

 

[emad]

The article at Edmunds calls it a skyline, not a gtr. What exactly *is* this thing?

 

[Leonidae]

it's a Nissan GT-R. there won't be Skyline GT-R anymore.

 

[Dave A]

Correct, Nissan have seperated the two brands, the Skyline badge is now reserved for less performance oriented saloons and coupes, the GT-R is a pure out and out sports car or supercar depending on your definition. The GT-R is now a seperate model and isn't merely the performance variant of the skyline model range any more.

 

[Tornado]

I'm still not entirely sure that it was worth the time to so assuredly seperate it from the Skyline, though.

 

[Dave A]

It's a combination of compromises and marketing, keeping it Skyline based would compromise the cars design, seperating the brands means that Nissan now has a firm flagship car, rather than a model range that contains the flagship car. Personally I'm with them on this move, the Skyline badge carries a lot of weight, as does the GT-R badge, so why not use them both for what they're good at and not get the two confused. Some people think all Skylines are sportscars.

 

[Tornado]

So how is that a bad thing for the Skyline? Does it not give the Skyline a near BMW image that Nissan want it to have? And basing a flagship on a lesser car has worked for other brands, such as the Z06 in relation to the normal Corvette or 911 Turbo to the Carrera. True, it helps market them, but I don't personally beleive it will make any difference.

 

[a6m5]

Edmunds call it a neesan skyline. Its nissan, and its not a skyline. Its like how bush calls Iraq, EyeRak

Many Americans do. Not just Bush!

 

[Wolfe]

Many Americans do. Not just Bush!

How do you guys know that we're not just referring to Apple's latest hat/coat storage device, the iRack?

 

[SagarisGTB]

You know, Nissan should use some of what the learn with this car and put it into use in a M3 fighting Skyline coupe/G35 coupe. Give it the M45s V8, but make it more performance orriented to around 400hp and tune the suspension to a sporty level. Give it a name from the skylines past and price it at 50k$ and bingo, youve got a car to work off the GTR.

And about mispronuonciations, the one I hate the most is the english version of Ferrari. Furari anyone?

 

[Wolfe]

And about mispronuonciations, the one I hate the most is the english version of Ferrari. Furari anyone?

By that, do you mean "fur" as in the coat of a fuzzy animal? Both americans and Brits pronounce it that way, so it's pretty common among English speakers. It should be "Fair/fehr-rah-ree," right?

You know, Nissan should use some of what the learn with this car and put it into use in a M3 fighting Skyline coupe/G35 coupe. Give it the M45s V8, but make it more performance orriented to around 400hp and tune the suspension to a sporty level. Give it a name from the skylines past and price it at 50k$ and bingo, youve got a car to work off the GTR.

Sounds a bit odd to me. Are you saying that there should be a $20,000-cheaper "GTS" that is only 50-100hp down in power from the GT-R? Wouldn't that steal a lot of sales?

 

[SagarisGTB]

By that, do you mean "fur" as in the coat of a fuzzy animal? Both americans and Brits pronounce it that way, so it's pretty common among English speakers. It should be "Fair/fehr-rah-ree," right?

Correct. It may be nitpicking, but it annoys me.

Sounds a bit odd to me. Are you saying that there should be a $20,000-cheaper "GTS" that is only 50-100hp down in power from the GT-R? Wouldn't that steal a lot of sales?

An inbetweener, to provide a link. Wouldnt be as purely performance oriented as the GTR, but inbetween the two. Though you are right, it may steal sales from the GTR. To what degree I dont know, though it may be possible to make two models co-exist.

 

[Wolfe]

Correct. It may be nitpicking, but it annoys me.

An inbetweener, to provide a link. Wouldnt be as purely performance oriented as the GTR, but inbetween the two. Though you are right, it may steal sales from the GTR. To what degree I dont know, though it may be possible to make two models co-exist.

I suppose, but an extra $20,000 would be an awful lot for a GT-R, over this hypothetical GTS, considering the fact that it's Nissan we're talking about here. That's the kind of price premium you'd expect from, say, Stuttgart or Maranello. Not Tokyo.

 

[YSSMAN]

You know, Nissan should use some of what the learn with this car and put it into use in a M3 fighting Skyline coupe/G35 coupe. Give it the M45s V8, but make it more performance orriented to around 400hp and tune the suspension to a sporty level. Give it a name from the skylines past and price it at 50k$ and bingo, youve got a car to work off the GTR.

1) Origional rumors had pointed to the GT-R having some sort of V8 powerplant, some saying that it used the 4.5L mill out of the M45, others saying that it used a lightened/more powerful version of the 5.6L mill in the Titan.

2) The is a problem with making a sub-model here; it allready exists. Its called the 350Z, and Nissan has been building it for several years. Good news is that rumors are pointing to Nissan green-lighting production on the supercharged 350Z GT-S (382 BHP, $40K pricetag), and that indeed would be the gap-car in question...

(Read LLN.com's short story on the GT-S here)

 

[GT4_Rule]

I don't find too many problems with the GT-R's styling. It's quite nice overall, better than the R34 in my opinion - it looks a lot cleaner and bolder, instead of being bland like the R34.

But R33 still wins my heart.

 

[Dave A]

So how is that a bad thing for the Skyline? Does it not give the Skyline a near BMW image that Nissan want it to have? And basing a flagship on a lesser car has worked for other brands, such as the Z06 in relation to the normal Corvette or 911 Turbo to the Carrera. True, it helps market them, but I don't personally beleive it will make any difference.

I never said it was a bad thing for the Skyline, I was thinking more in terms of IF anything, it being a bad thing for the GT-R. But the reasons is simple, Nissan now have two brands that are both pretty well known that are both very marketable as opposed to just one before. They can market both brands in the areas that will suit that brand best and if all goes to plan, make more money. And it gives them a more structured platform to base future models on.

 

[SagarisGTB]

1) Origional rumors had pointed to the GT-R having some sort of V8 powerplant, some saying that it used the 4.5L mill out of the M45, others saying that it used a lightened/more powerful version of the 5.6L mill in the Titan.

2) The is a problem with making a sub-model here; it allready exists. Its called the 350Z, and Nissan has been building it for several years. Good news is that rumors are pointing to Nissan green-lighting production on the supercharged 350Z GT-S (382 BHP, $40K pricetag), and that indeed would be the gap-car in question...

(Read LLN.com's short story on the GT-S here)

1)Yes, I know those were the rumors. But all signs are now pointing towards a TT V6. A V8 could fit in between the NA V6 and TT V6 nicely, in my opinion.

2) Didnt know that, that would certainly fit the gap. Though thats a different approach from what I suggested. It worries me a bit though, the current 350Z isnt as good as a G35 overall, even though they share the same platform and engine.

Now about that Urge...

 

[Mr. Boy]

THAT THING LOOKS SOOOOOOOO SLICK!!! I WANT ONE!!!

 

[YSSMAN]

2) Didnt know that, that would certainly fit the gap. Though thats a different approach from what I suggested. It worries me a bit though, the current 350Z isnt as good as a G35 overall, even though they share the same platform and engine.

So if the 350Z had four seats then it would be what you are talking about? I'd argue that the 350Z is on-par with the G35 in many cases, but I think you are forgetting that the GT-R will be sold at your local Nissan dealer, not the Infiniti shop. A 350Z GT-S would fit the mold, split the power and performance gaps, and tie the pricing together as well. Think along the lines of difference between the Camaro SS, Corvette, and Z06...

 

[Tornado]

So if the 350Z had four seats then it would be what you are talking about?

I don't think he is talking about that, but more along the lines of interior and materials quality because of the side-effects of Le Cost Killer on Nissan.

 

[YSSMAN]

Personally (and it may be me), I don't think the G35's materials were leaps-and-bounds better than that of the 350Z, but I can see where people would think that. The old measure of dashboard quality is usually my measuring stick, and Infiniti certainly doesn't impress all the time, particularly with the "tin-foil-on-plastic" trim they call "aluminum," but the leather quality (among other things) isn't all too bad.

 

[harrytuttle]

Sounds a bit odd to me. Are you saying that there should be a $20,000-cheaper "GTS" that is only 50-100hp down in power from the GT-R? Wouldn't that steal a lot of sales?

You mean like all the R32 - R34 versions (GT-R N1, Nur, GTS, GTS-4, GTS-T, GTS-25, etc.)?

In the US, having various spec levels does almost nothing to top-spec sales. Sales (at least in the northeast) of the 300C & Charger are predominantly V8's, Impreza's are predominantly WRX's, Mercedes's R-class is mostly R500's.... When given the opportunity with a new model, these days most people choose the higher spec. Older models often fall to being lower spec (S-class, 3-series), but model revisions temporarily reverse that (new 3-series sold mostly at 330i rather than 325i, S4 is in much higher numbers than previous A4 generations).

Having a "GTS" will take some sales from the GT-R, but overall sales will definitely increase. I'm not much in favor of the supercharged 350Z "GT-S" being the car in the middle. Not unless Nissan cleans it up enough to prevent it from looking like a tuner car.

 

[Wolfe]

You mean like all the R32 - R34 versions (GT-R N1, Nur, GTS, GTS-4, GTS-T, GTS-25, etc.)?

In the US, having various spec levels does almost nothing to top-spec sales. Sales (at least in the northeast) of the 300C & Charger are predominantly V8's, Impreza's are predominantly WRX's, Mercedes's R-class is mostly R500's.... When given the opportunity with a new model, these days most people choose the higher spec. Older models often fall to being lower spec (S-class, 3-series), but model revisions temporarily reverse that (new 3-series sold mostly at 330i rather than 325i, S4 is in much higher numbers than previous A4 generations).

Having a "GTS" will take some sales from the GT-R, but overall sales will definitely increase. I'm not much in favor of the supercharged 350Z "GT-S" being the car in the middle. Not unless Nissan cleans it up enough to prevent it from looking like a tuner car.

The majority of those model variations aren't $20,000 apart. The GT-R simply costs too much to have such a closely-performing yet cheap alternative.

 

[YSSMAN]

The majority of those model variations aren't $20,000 apart. The GT-R simply costs too much to have such a closely-performing yet cheap alternative.

This is the catch: If the GT-R is supposed to compete with the 911 Turbo (as noted by the videos and photos of it testing with her), the GT-S would certainly be the Carrera S and "regular" Corvette compeditor...

 

[Wolfe]

This is the catch: If the GT-R is supposed to compete with the 911 Turbo (as noted by the videos and photos of it testing with her), the GT-S would certainly be the Carrera S and "regular" Corvette compeditor...

That's fine and dandy -- I still don't think Nissan has the cachet to get away with putting the GT-R $20,000 above SagarisGTB's hypothetical GTS, but I don't think they could get away with selling his hypothetical GTS at a higher price than that, either. If they're insistent on charging so much for the GT-R, they'd probably have better luck selling it if it exceeds the performance of all other Nissan models by a large margin.

That's all I'm saying here. Really, my point is centered on the price issue, not the validity of an "inbetween" model. Of course, the Japanese will eat the new GT-R up like they did with the previous GT-Rs, but I'm not so sure about other markets.

 

[YSSMAN]

That's fine and dandy -- I still don't think Nissan has the cachet to get away with putting the GT-R $20,000 above SagarisGTB's hypothetical GTS, but I don't think they could get away with selling his hypothetical GTS at a higher price than that, either. If they're insistent on charging so much for the GT-R, they'd probably have better luck selling it if it exceeds the performance of all other Nissan models by a large margin.

That's all I'm saying here. Really, my point is centered on the price issue, not the validity of an "inbetween" model. Of course, the Japanese will eat the new GT-R up like they did with the previous GT-Rs, but I'm not so sure about other markets.

Okay, I know what you mean now. I thought you were talking about the actual GT-S (350Z), not the made-up "GTS." That clears things up a bit. So if I may speak in hypotheticals (sp?) for a moment:

- Nissan 350Z: $27K, 300 BHP, 0-60 in low 5 second range
- Nissan 350Z GT-S: $40-45K, 382 BHP, 0-60 in 4.8 seconds
- Nissan GT-R: $70-80K, 400-500 BHP, 0-60 in 4 seconds or less

The current trend, should it prove to be true, seems reasonable to me. Of course, much of this depends on if the GT-S is produced, and if it is, should it come to the US, and how many will be sent here.

---

...And I'm in complete agreement over the questioning of GT-R sales as well. It isn't a very well-established model here (US) despite the fact that the kids love the car, but for $70K+ USD, there aren't many kids who could afford it. If Nissan is hoping to pick up that 40+ buyer looking for some fun, they better make damn sure it is a better deal than any Corvette or GT500, as those are argueably the most desireable cars for around $50K, going north of there the standards being the Z06, SRT-10, and 911.

 

[SagarisGTB]

The problem with the 350Z GTS I can see filling the gap, is that its not really "grown up". The point of the Z is a sports car based off Sedan platform to be cheap. The 350Z is a sports car, it lacks four seats, it isnt Infiniti quality, its a performance bargain (though it doesnt perform that well, but thats another issue). I was thinking of a car to bridge the gap between the G35 sports sedan and GTR sports car. An inbetweener, not another sports car like the Z. The car would not be not nearly as fast as a GTR to not steal sales, but be comftrable enough to gain its own sales. This could also benefit regualar VQ G35s and Skylines.

 

[Tornado]

If Nissan is hoping to pick up that 40+ buyer looking for some fun, they better make damn sure it is a better deal than any Corvette or GT500, as those are argueably the most desireable cars for around $50K, going north of there the standards being the Z06, SRT-10, and 911.

To those who actually know the performance merits of the GT500, this is a more valuable car:

because at least it can handle...






...Okay, maybe that was a slight exaggeration. But at the very least:

Everyone else could care less how good of a performance car it actually is, because they just buy it because it says "GT500" on the rocker panel and has 200 BHP that is useless below 70MPH.

 

[Dave A]

And doing that completely defies the entire point of Nissan seperating the GT-R and Skyline brands, the GT-R isn't intended to be some cater for all brand, it's an out and out supercar, and that's that as far as Nissan are concerned with higher performance models/options possibly being introduces in the future, but certainly not lower performance models. If they want a sportscar in between the 350Z and GT-R they'll use the 350Z or the new Skyline coupe.