2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[YSSMAN]

The problem with the 350Z GTS I can see filling the gap, is that its not really "grown up". The point of the Z is a sports car based off Sedan platform to be cheap. The 350Z is a sports car, it lacks four seats, it isnt Infiniti quality, its a performance bargain (though it doesnt perform that well, but thats another issue). I was thinking of a car to bridge the gap between the G35 sports sedan and GTR sports car. An inbetweener, not another sports car like the Z. The car would not be not nearly as fast as a GTR to not steal sales, but be comftrable enough to gain its own sales. This could also benefit regualar VQ G35s and Skylines.

Nissan isn't going the Infiniti route in any way with this car. It is obviously meant to be the flagship model for Renault/Nissan, that is unquestioned, but I think most people are realising that you aren't going out and buying a twin-turbo G35. Sure, there is going to be some "luxury" baked-in, but I wouldn't put it any further ahead than the G35, which by most measurements, isn't all that nice to begin with (interior wise).

...If you want a 'tweener, look no further than the M45, its as easy as that...

 

[Jay]

Most everyone is so concerned about the price, well I am certain it is not going to be cheap. Nissan are using new developed technology, as they did with the previous GTR's, this comes at a price. The Corvette Z06 can offer extremely good performance with a fairly low cost as they are using know tried simple technology. Not to meantion this GTR is standalone, it may borrow parts from other Nissans but they won't be able to make it cheap because it is a modified high production model (like the the GT500 from the Mustang).

I think Nissan would like it to sell well in the US market but they are not entirely aiming for it.

One thing is for near certain, it has one large market that most other makes of cars cannot penetrate, that is the Japanese market. Previous Skyline GTR's sold quite well as a whole especially for it's price and 99% of those sales were in Japan alone.

I can see it now when it is released, it will get rubbished by most of this forum because it is not cheap like the Z06 or GT500.

 

[YSSMAN]

Price certainly is a factor, but I give Nissan a ton of credit for building a sportscar for the world market. There aren't many companies who do that, Porsche comming to mind as the best example overall, as even the Corvette is pretty much designed only with the US in mind.

...If Nissan can get the price/performance ratio sorted out, I think they will have plenty of success. Its hard to beat a car like the Corvette that has been around for so long using much the same technology year after year, but even if Nissan pushed the car into showrooms at $100K and it performed similarly to the 911 Turbo, it would still be a "deal" by comparison to many of the ultimate European exotics.

---

BTW: Did Cosworth end up doing the work on the Turbocharged engine, or did Nissan do it all in-house? There were rumors going for a while that Lotus did some work as well...

 

[Jay]

BTW: Did Cosworth end up doing the work on the Turbocharged engine, or did Nissan do it all in-house? There were rumors going for a while that Lotus did some work as well...

I'm not sure yet, all previous work has been done in-house (Nissan-Prince), even the turbocharged Stagea that is still available, my guess for the GTR is it was/is done in-house but I am not certain.

 

[harrytuttle]

The majority of those model variations aren't $20,000 apart. The GT-R simply costs too much to have such a closely-performing yet cheap alternative.

Right, supposedly confusing things even more. Which it didn't. Did the Boxster dilute 911 sales? Does a 325i take away from the M3? Will the C6 Corvette take away anything from the C6 Z06? Some sales were lost, true, but it did nothing negative to the model's overall existence.

The GT-R is going to be Nissan's halo car. It's not meant to be sold in volume. It's meant to give a sense of credibility to the rest of the range, a perceived filter-down-effect, some of which is true and some isn't.

 

[Wolfe]

Right, supposedly confusing things even more. Which it didn't. Did the Boxster dilute 911 sales? Does a 325i take away from the M3? Will the C6 Corvette take away anything from the C6 Z06? Some sales were lost, true, but it did nothing negative to the model's overall existence.

Porsche and BMW have enough freedom and prestige in the market to charge tens of thousands more for their performance models, and the Z06 sells because it's a performance powerhouse, and one of the best deals on the automotive market.

The GT-R isn't a powerhouse like the Z06, and Nissan isn't Porsche. On top of that, unlike the NSX, which was by all means a friendly-to-drive, inexpensive "exotic," the GT-R is an "ordinary" sportscar that looks more like a sports coupe, like the GT-Rs that came before it.

So yes, the NSX sold, the M3 sells, the 911 sells, and the Z06 sells. That doesn't mean the GT-R has the prestige and/or performance to do the same, and if Nissan decides to give people a choice between it and a much-cheaper yet almost-as-good alternative, I think many will choose the latter.

 

[Leonidae]

BTW: Did Cosworth end up doing the work on the Turbocharged engine, or did Nissan do it all in-house? There were rumors going for a while that Lotus did some work as well...

AFAIK, Lotus did work on the chassis and suspension (weight reduction and handling), and Cosworth did it's magic to the engine and power delivery ( engine response and power/drivetrain)

 

[Poverty]

seeing as cosworth worked on the engine this car should be magically. Back when audi owned them cosworth helped make the RS6 and RS4 motors

 

[Dave A]

Just as a bit of trivia, in 1998 Audi bought Cosworth Technologies, Cosworth Racing however was bought by Ford. Cosworth racing became Cosworth in November of 2004 while Cosworth Technologies is still a seperate company and is still called Cosworth Technologies and is currently owned by the Mahle group.

 

[Poverty]

Just as a bit of trivia, in 1998 Audi bought Cosworth Technologies, Cosworth Racing however was bought by Ford. Cosworth racing became Cosworth in November of 2004 while Cosworth Technologies is still a seperate company and is still called Cosworth Technologies and is currently owned by the Mahle group.

I see 👍 . I read in a article that they sold cosworth, cause they wernt making money anymore as other manufacturers didnt wanna do business with them.

I cant remember if audi sold mahle aswell which included cosworth Technologies, or if audi still own them. the Mahle logo is still on audis latest le mans racer so im not sure.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Outside of the GT-R, what else has Cosworth been up to? I heard a rumor that they were working with GM not too long ago, but I'm not sure what exactly they were doing...

 

[harrytuttle]

The GT-R isn't a powerhouse like the Z06, and Nissan isn't Porsche. On top of that, unlike the NSX, which was by all means a friendly-to-drive, inexpensive "exotic," the GT-R is an "ordinary" sportscar that looks more like a sports coupe, like the GT-Rs that came before it.

Consider this: The NSX had no siblings, no slightly-lower model, no other sports cars, it was an amazing car and yet it failed to sell well. Why? No heritage; outside of F1 Honda had no sporting history in the US. Okay, so neither does Nissan -- or does it? How many people do you know recognize the GT-R badge? How many meatheads do you see slapping "GT-R" on a riced-out Civic/240SX/Camry/whatever? The GT-R is very well known and there's a lot of anticipation for it.

Nissan has to start somewhere. Fifty-two years ago when the Corvette debuted, it was a lukewarm open-top 2-seater that just wasn't worth the price, and it wasn't what GM was known for at all. But they made it better, and over the past 5 decades it's become the car it is now. Nissan is just about in that same position, only they've got this mystique going for them. There's real credibility to the GT-R name, despite never having been sold in the US.

Another thing to consider is that there's no official word on any model between the 350Z and GT-R, which means this discussion could simply have been a waste of time.

Anyway, I think having a half-way model will only result in more sales. It gets more people into the showroom, more people buying "something", and more people getting talked into the all-out GT-R. What's more difficult: talking someone into a GT-R from a 350Z, or from a GT-S?

 

[YSSMAN]

A few things from above:

1) Certainly the GT-R name carries some credibility to it with folks under 30, but considering who exactly will have money to buy a car such as this (generally 40+), Nissan has a long road ahead of themselves to prove that this car is better than anything else on the market. Going against standards in the industry like the Corvette and 911 would be tough for any car, and although with kids our age the GT-R name holds a lot of power, it may not be enough to guarantee sales... Of course, positive press and media attention will change that quickly, and if Nissan can get the PR wheels turning early, chances are good that sales will remain strong in argueably the most important market, the United States.

2) Having a GT-S there certainly could push people twards the GT-R in some ways, but if anything, it would make sales of the GT-R a bit more difficult if the performance differences aren't that great. But in most cases, I think people often go to the dealers looking for the GT-R, Z06, or 911 Turbo and end up with something like a GT-S, Z51, or Carrera S. Why? Similar performance for less money, same can be said for prestige and percieved popularity.

 

[niky]

Hmmm... a GTS or GTST model underneath the new GTR is an interesting prospect.

RE: saleability of the GTR... guys, nobody knows for sure whether it'll be a hit or it'll bomb. Nissan's never tried to sell it outside.

The NSX's problem, as I see it, was that it was a product in isolation, something entirely off-the-wall, at the wrong place, and at the wrong time.

It may have sold better if they'd fixed the styling, or if they'd done something to beef up the line-up underneath the NSX, but Honda didn't... oops, Acura...

Nobody goes into an Acura dealership looking for a supercar. Lots of people go into Porsche dealerships looking at sports cars, and, oh, do you have one of those Carrera GTs? Can I have a look?

Nissan's line-up just might work with the GT-R, but only if they have a tweener model between it and the 350Z, maybe the rumored V8 Z or a GTS model (maybe a lightly boosted V6 or a naturally aspirated V8?)...

In hindsight, maybe it would be better as an Infiniti model. People already go into Infiniti showrooms looking for something upmarket, sporty and powerful.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the problem was that given the GT-R was going to be a "global" car, selling it in some markets as a Nissan and as an Infiniti in others would just be silly. There was a rumor going around a while ago that Nissan was just going to sell it as a GT-R, not a Nissan, not an Infiniti. Problem was, they would have to decide where to sell just one car...

So I thnk they made the right decision to just stick it as a Nissan. Sure, the 350Z (and maybe the GT-S) will cause some issues, but I don't think the situation at Infiniti would have been that much better. You've got the G35, which is pretty damn close to the 350Z in performance, and the M45 that slots above that.

 

[Dave A]

Besides that, there's nothing to stop the GT-R being sold from Infiniti showrooms as well as Nissan ones despite not being an Infiniti badged car if Nissan feels they will make more sales that way.

 

[skylineGTR_guy]

an article and video with no people talking

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/203249/nissan_gtr.html

 

[harrytuttle]

an article and video with no people talking

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/203249/nissan_gtr.html

Nice exhaust flames. Just like GT4.

 

[GT Pro]

Simply pornography. Period.

 

[Sureboss]

Different bodypanels really do suck, makes it look like they've not really bothered with it. It looks good bar those damned panels.

 

[Dave A]

Eh!!! Different body panels! What body panels do you mean?

 

[Sureboss]

emads first photo (not the 2 links above.

Different body panels/different coloured body panels.

 

[Dave A]

They arn't different colours, the cars bodywork is all silver, one shade of silver except for the splitter, skirts and diffuser which are the same in every photograph.

This is what it looks like without any black cloth over the bodywork.

 

[Sureboss]

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/skyline-1.jpg

Doesn't that show it differently?

 

[Dave A]

No, other than black cloth tapped onto the front and back of the car and the small bit covering the door handle which are there to disguise the car a little. Most manufacturers disguise prototypes that they take out of the factory barring when it's at a show ofcourse. The body panels are all the same colour.

 

[GT4_Rule]

I think I see plastic near the exhausts in the above pic.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Those pictures of the concept are not the same as the car spotted at the Nurburgring. The window line is different on the concept (note it now flows backwards on the production model), the entire profile of the roof is different, the front fenders are less 3-dimensional (I'm assuming because the production model's shapes have to be a lot cheaper), and the rear wing is different.

That new roof looks really uncomfortable...

 

[Jay]

Those pictures of the concept are not the same as the car spotted at the Nurburgring. The window line is different on the concept (note it now flows backwards on the production model), the entire profile of the roof is different

Thats because that picture L4S posted was a photoshopped version of the GTR (that Wolf made earlier in the thread I think), the way many people want the roofline to look.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Thats because that picture L4S posted was a photoshopped version of the GTR (that Wolf made earlier in the thread I think), the way many people want the roofline to look.

I just noticed it now. That'll teach me to not read the entire thread!

 

[Onikaze]

Ugly, offensive, sounds like crap, runs like hell.

Awesome.