2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

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News with some prices!

nissan_gtr_pre_orders.jpg

Autoblog
It cometh. Dealers in Japan opened the sluices on GT-R orders as of yesterday. Pre-ordering will be possible until October 24, when the car is revealed at the Tokyo Auto Show. Caveat emptor: anyone who signs his or her name on an order form will not be allowed to cancel that order. You sign, you buy.

And the three varieties of GT-R are again confirmed, with dealers actually having sales material in hand listing models and specs. The rundown we know of is the standard model at 480 HP and $57,000, a V-Spec for $67,000, and an EVO-spec with 530 HP, 200 fewer pounds and a $94,000 tag. The home team -- Japan, that is -- begins receiving deliveries in December.
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Sweet? I'm excited that its finally here, but then again, the price still seems high. Particularly on the EVO-model.

Its hard to estimate what kind of price changes are going to be required from market-to-market, I'd estimate about a 15-20% increase, basically putting the EVO model in the $110K USD bracket, about what you'd pay for an R8 these days...
 
YSSMAN
I'd estimate about a 15-20% increase, basically putting the EVO model in the $110K USD bracket, about what you'd pay for an R8 these days...
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Just my opinion, but that's really bad for any Japanese sports car. Just on looks alone, think about the NSX, it really didn't sell all that well in the U.S. and it looked like an amazing super car. This new GT-R on the other hand doesn't look all that amazing (unless your already a skyline fan) and it still doesn't perform all that much better (if any) than most of the cars in the 100k+ price range.

I'd say release the GT-R in the US for anything more than 100k is a mistake (of course, :sly: some improved performance could change that just a bit).
 
Maybe I'm being a wishful thinker here, but the Evo-spec car sounds like a Scuderia/Superleggera kinda car, so for that price it's still a steal. But that price jump from the base and V to the Evo seems too steep. Unless the thing's redone in carbonfibre, but I'd expect a better weight loss with that...

480hp GT-R for $57k? I can't really think of a better deal to pick on 911 Turbos with ;).
 
Now, at 57,000 I could see a GT-R being a great deal. 👍
Not exactly sure how great of a deal though... Many of the most reliable forms of evaluation by the media are either old or do not show competitive analysis. What I mean is, the GT-R gets tested from time to time but I don't see it done by people other than BM very often.
Further, I'm not sure a basic GT-R is capable of running against a 911.
In fact, if you are willing to accept Best Motoring comparisons for examples (even though they are biased at times, it is usually biased in favor of the GT-R so lets have a look...)

In the 360 Modena, GT-R Z-tune, 911 Turbo (996) battle, the GT-R wasn't able to win over the 911 Turbo despite the Turbo being used in so many test throughout the day that the brakes and tires were quickly deteriorating (BM said this, I'm not assuming that was the case).

So I figure, if a 450hp Z-tune can't beat an old 911 Turbo there's probably little chance of a regular GT-R beating a 997 Turbo... Since I don't really know how the GT-R would stand up to the F430 I'm not even going to comment on that! :D

In any case, 57,000 seems more reasonable than 100+. 👍
 
So is the GT-R a grand tourer now? At those prices it just seems like it's in a different class than the old car. I would hope that in that range it has leather or something because looks and a fancy badge can only carry you so far.

$67k for the base model? Isn't this around where the old car was at? If this car is as tunable as the R34, I would expect the bulk of sales to be this model.
 
If I'm understanding the prices and the trim levels correctly, the basic GT-R (much like a regular Corvette) will start at $57K. The up-level V-Spec (much like a Corvette Z51) will start at $67K. And then the balls-out EVO model (much like a Z06 or ZR1) will do the $94K dance.

Problem is, I believe all those prices are from conversions of Japanese Yen to United States dollars, and furthermore, are prices from the Japanese Domestic Market. The mark-up should be of a moderate size between the "Land of the Rising Sun" to the "Land of the Free," as I mentioned before, I'd suspect 15-20% increases across the board.

Furthermore, I think a three-staged model seems far less likely in the United States than it would in other markets. My guess is that we may in fact only receive the V-Spec with 480 BHP, as it carries the most weight with a name, and should pack the most performance per dollar.

Still, $70K (converted or not) gets you quite a few well-performing vehicles. If we use the expected conversion prices, that soars above $80K, which stacks it against some Z06s, SRT-10s, 911 Carrera 4s, BMW M3s, etc...

My guess is that it will be a strong performer, but as I had stated dozens of times before, its going to be the pricing that decides how well the car does here in the US market.
 
YSSMAN
Furthermore, I think a three-staged model seems far less likely in the United States than it would in other markets. My guess is that we may in fact only receive the V-Spec with 480 BHP, as it carries the most weight with a name, and should pack the most performance per dollar.

Still, $70K (converted or not) gets you quite a few well-performing vehicles. If we use the expected conversion prices, that soars above $80K, which stacks it against some Z06s, SRT-10s, 911 Carrera 4s, BMW M3s, etc...

My guess is that it will be a strong performer, but as I had stated dozens of times before, its going to be the pricing that decides how well the car does here in the US market.
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You are probably right about us only getting one trim version of the beast. I guess Nissan is taking a good step in only bringing one model over just because the car is so new and not well known here.

I would rather have a lot of those cars on that $70k list. Maybe that is just because the car is so new and those names are pretty big. Hopefully it will slot right into that group. It would add some nice competition and another great badge.
 
Most people have been guessing from the beginning that the new GT-R would go for nearly $100,000 stateside. Assuming YSSMAN is right in thinking that these prices are converted from the JDM Yen prices (and I'd agree), this isn't surprising at all.
 
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/3461?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

There were plenty of enthusiasts who scoffed when Nissan's engineers started dragging a 911 Turbo around with them while testing the 2009 GT-R. It seemed like a lofty benchmark for a car that's expected to cost around $75,000, but the latest word from Germany suggests Nissan may have met its goals.

Prototypes of the 2009 GT-R started circling the Nurburgring yesterday, and according to spy shooters on the scene it was clear that the GT-R was running at full steam. With that in mind, they pulled out their stop watches to get an idea just how fast the GT-R was getting around the Nordschleife. The fastest hand timed lap came in at around 7:38, two seconds faster than the 911 Turbo's widely reported fastest lap of 7:40.

And as if that wasn’t enough to cement the GT-R's reputation around the Nurburgring, our spies also caught a couple shots of the Nissan blowing by the facelifted Porsche 911 Turbo we showed you earlier in the week. The Porsche may not have been running at full speed, but a pass is a pass.
 
also this might be of some interest, look for posts by "Bean" hes a well know member of GTR.co.uk and already has a few GTR's and just preordered the new one, it seems the only differences are trim differences:

http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/83413-gtr-update-7-tune.html


more research yields this info:

You don't get to see the full details so there may be other differences but the ones I did see are just selection of manufacturer options;
There are two interior colors - the Black edition you only get to choose black - the other spec levels can also choose grey.
Base GTR comes with unnamed alloys and dunlop tyres - black and premium come with Rays wheels and Bridgestone RE070s.
Premium comes with a Thatcham class immobiliser and alarm and the Bose sound system.
Side airbag system is optional on all 3 grades.
That's pretty much it....

I was told the engine performance of the 3 is the same and that there is no Manual transmission version.
Exterior colours - Black, Red, Pearl White (30k yen option), Titanium Grey, Dark Metal Grey, Ultimate Metal Silver (300k yen option)
The engine designation is (as has been said before) VR38 and the chassis code is R35 (I thought the last point was a bit surprising tbh)

JDM Price (only looked at Premium since it's what I ordered) was 8.3 million yen ($72,000 USD)
 
skylineGTR_guy
I was told the engine performance of the 3 is the same and that there is no Manual transmission version.
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Well, that may be a sign of where things are going. If performance is the same across the board, or about that of a 911 Turbo, thats strike one. Strike two is the lack of a manual transmission option. Sure, if they offer a DSG-style sequential box, that would be great, but for purists (like me), I want a stick that I can row myself. Strike three? My guess is the pricing, and assuming a 15-20% increase on the prices shown on those forums, the lowest I'd expect would be $83K, or about the territory in which a Viper SRT-10 Coupe would start.

I'm still going to hold my absolute final judgment for the production model, but if some of these things are true, thats very unfortunate indeed.
 
That's definately interesting.
I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing more. 👍
Btw, I call strike two as a ball. ;)
 
YSSMAN
Well, that may be a sign of where things are going. If performance is the same across the board, or about that of a 911 Turbo, thats strike one. Strike two is the lack of a manual transmission option. Sure, if they offer a DSG-style sequential box, that would be great, but for purists (like me), I want a stick that I can row myself. Strike three? My guess is the pricing, and assuming a 15-20% increase on the prices shown on those forums, the lowest I'd expect would be $83K, or about the territory in which a Viper SRT-10 Coupe would start.

I'm still going to hold my absolute final judgment for the production model, but if some of these things are true, thats very unfortunate indeed.
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one thing we have to keep in mind is that this will be the intial offering, there are always new models and upgrades after the first run so I wouldn't absolutely exclude anything, only time will tell.
 
Very true, and given how well Nissan has improved the 350Z over the years, I'm sure it would be much the same for the GT-R. The problem likely will be how far the competition moves ahead by that point. Porsche is already updating the 997, God knows what Audi has in store for the R8, not to mention cars like the M3, Corvette, Viper, etc...

My thing is, I just hope and pray they don't drop the ball on it. Granted, I've never been much of a fan of the GT-R, ever, but I am excited to finally see it coming to the US.
 
Didn't the last GT-R go for around $50,000? Considering that the car's been updated, production cost increase(with the time), I don't think the new, higher pricing would be out of line. R32 to R34 in Japan, really fast Skylines cost that much anyways, because they weren't incredibly fast stock, but you could make it that fast for the price.
 
I found in my newspaper about the GT-R. Well there is a website that did a countdown on the reveal of the new Nissan GT-R as also a brief history about the car.
http://www.gtrnissan.com/
Well the release is in 23 days :D and well the car maybe going on sale at the end of the year in Japan (probably December) But i might say, this car is totally going to set records on fire (either in racing or in sales.....)
 
Go buy the new Motor Trend now...

motortrendcoverdecmw5.jpg


Autoblog
2008 Nissan GT-R unveiled on cover of Motor Trend
Today is October 16, but Motor Authority reports that the December issue of Motor Trend has begun arriving in some subscribers' mailboxes. What those readers will find on the cover is the first unmasked photo of the 2008 Nissan GT-R. According to MT's headline, the GT-R boasts a 0-60 of 3.5 seconds, an 11.7-second quarter mile, a 192 mph top speed, and a sub-$80K price. Motor Authority had no additional info, but we expect to see that explode onto the web in the immediate future as other outlets sitting on long-lead info react to the Motor Trend release. As for the car, it looks good to us. It essentially retains the GT-R Proto's appearance minus the Alice Cooper makeup under the headlamps. We'll wait for the information/photo avalanche to comment further, as we'd like to hear the final engine specs, too. Stay tuned for more. As you know already, we'll be in Japan next week to see the big reveal in person.

We're curious to know if any readers have actually received their copy of the December issue of Motor Trend, as Motor Authority doesn't make it clear if it actually has a copy in hand. The cover you see to the right is not a scan, but appears to be an image made from an actual PDF that Motor Trend staff would use to proof read the issue. In the enlarged version you can still see the cut markers where the page would be trimmed by the printer. We're not sure where Motor Authority got the image, but have already emailed Angus MacKenzie at MT to find out what's up.
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Interesting...

...My only question, I suppose, sits on the handling and pricing side of the equation. The Porsche 997T, while an impressive bit of kit, still can't hang with some of the other cars that it was supposed to. Of course, the GT2 will fix that issue... Will the GT-R face a similar situation? What are the limitations to the chassis and the AWD setup?

I'm very interested in this car, but it would be great if they'd just tell us how "good" it is for once.

And the price?

Do you really think people are ready to pay more than $80K for a NISSAN? Remember, people were throwing sticks at Cadillac for building the XLR which started nearly $20K less...
 
YSSMAN
And the price?

Do you really think people are ready to pay more than $80K for a NISSAN? Remember, people were throwing sticks at Cadillac for building the XLR which started nearly $20K less...
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Why not pay $80k? Does that mean they should price it at $40k just because it's a Nissan? You pay for what you get, and those are some pretty damn good performance numbers for the money. And don't compare the Corvette, because it's RWD. Add AWD to the Vette, and watch the price climb.
 
GT3man2001
Why not pay $80k? Does that mean they should price it at $40k just because it's a Nissan? You pay for what you get, and those are some pretty damn good performance numbers for the money. And don't compare the Corvette, because it's RWD. Add AWD to the Vette, and watch the price climb.
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Actually, no... The price increase on a Corvette would be minimal if it would ever increase to AWD.

Why?

They'd likely steal the parts from beneath the trucks and stick it under the Vette, making a price increase between $3-5K. Otherwise, if they found a way to adapt the Saab XWD setup (I don't think it can handle the power yet), that too would be an increase that would likely be less than $5K overall.

See, thats the good thing about being a "big" car company. You've got lots of parts to play with that don't cost much because you put them on so many different things.

...But even then, the Corvette shouldn't be going AWD, ever...

And yes, it completely competes with the GT-R and the 997T based on performance specs, price, and the segment they share. We may as well throw the R8 and F430 in there while we're at it, not to mention the Viper and the Gallardo. Its a crowded segment, and a fun one to watch as well. The GT-R should fare well, but I still think people will have issues with paying that much for a Nissan, particularly in the United States...
 
YSSMAN
And the price?

Do you really think people are ready to pay more than $80K for a NISSAN? Remember, people were throwing sticks at Cadillac for building the XLR which started nearly $20K less...
Click to expand...

People who know the history and performance of past models wont mind coughing up the hefty price, even if it IS a Nissan. Also, This isn't some rebadged and reclothed GM knockoff. This is a Nissan Skyline GT-R and I think they are depending on the nameplate itself to fuel the sales. And yes, it will sell.
 
Actually, it isn't a Skyline anymore. Its just the "GT-R."

And while the GT guys (like us) will drool over the fact that it is a GT-R, something that we've wanted for more than a decade, most of the people who will be shopping in this segment have little idea what the car is. Now, I'm absolutely certain that things will be cleared up, and I'm sure that they won't have any problem moving the few thousand that come to the US each year...

...But that by no means makes it immediately acceptable to everyone either...

Like I said before, I'm interested in the car; I just don't know if the rest of America is.
 
YSSMAN
Interesting...

...My only question, I suppose, sits on the handling and pricing side of the equation. The Porsche 997T, while an impressive bit of kit, still can't hang with some of the other cars that it was supposed to. Of course, the GT2 will fix that issue... Will the GT-R face a similar situation? What are the limitations to the chassis and the AWD setup?
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So, by that statement, you're also saying the Corvette Z06, the Dodge Viper SRT-10, the Ferrari F430, the Lamborghini Gallardo, & the Audi R8 aren't hanging with what the cars they're supposed to, correct? Because the 997 Turbo is better on some tracks, and just a couple seconds off on others behind these cars.

And the price?
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This isn't like Toyota needing to market the LF-A under Lexus because no one would think of buying an $100,000 Toyota w/ the 2nd most expensive car being $25,000 that's not a sports car. $75,000 difference.

The most expensive Nissan car though is the near $30,000 Maxima. A $40,000 difference between it with the 350Z at the same level and the GT-R. Plus, Nissan can't market this under Infiniti for the name alone.
Do you really think people are ready to pay more than $80K for a NISSAN? Remember, people were throwing sticks at Cadillac for building the XLR which started nearly $20K less...
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Why not? Some pay $40,000 for a Nissan SUV.

Besides that, the XLR is not even in the same league as the GT-R. For $70,000 you get a car that happens to be able to run with the Z06, 997 Turbo, etc. The only difference is that your car is a Nissan. But you're still up there.

The XLR on the other hand, is paying $70,000 for something that can not run with other cars of its market. You can pay $70,000 and get a 6 Conv., and immediately see more performance.
 
Hmm I give it a meh. It may be fast but it still looks meh. I miss the CF bits from the concept though.
 
YSSMAN
The Porsche 997T, while an impressive bit of kit, still can't hang with some of the other cars that it was supposed to.
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Like?
YSSMAN
Do you really think people are ready to pay more than $80K for a NISSAN? Remember, people were throwing sticks at Cadillac for building the XLR which started nearly $20K less...
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People throw 80 grand at used Skylines. What is to say they won't do it for this new one that has way higher abilities?


Anyways, I am quite glad Nissan fixed up the awful front end that both of the concepts had, though I hope they do something about the side profile.
 
What the hell is up with that interior? I’d expect that dashboard design from something made in the ’80s, not 2007…
 
95GTIVR6
People who know the history and performance of past models wont mind coughing up the hefty price, even if it IS a Nissan. Also, This isn't some rebadged and reclothed GM knockoff. This is a Nissan Skyline GT-R and I think they are depending on the nameplate itself to fuel the sales. And yes, it will sell.
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Remember a large majority of American's do not know what a Skyline or GT-R even is, all the history and heritage in the world won't help them sell the car if no one knows or cars to know what one is.

Bringing up the question who is this car marketed to? I mean most of the time when you here someone who is all about Skylines they are in their teens and talking about how they are going to save their money so they can get one imported as a first car. Most teenagers I know do not have $80k to drop on a car. The only reason I really know about Skylines at all is through video games, which doesn't really make me want one.

People who buy $80k cars aren't young kids, they are typically middle aged people, primarily men. So ask yourself this: Would a 45 year old man buy a Corvette, 911, or a GT-R? My guess is he'd either get the Chevy or the Porsche.
 

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