2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery

[Joey D]

And buying cars based on "I want to be like everyone else" is stupid.

That doesn't mean anything, just because it's stupid doesn't mean thousands of sports cars buyer don't do it.

 

[Keef]

What the hell is up with that interior? I’d expect that dashboard design from something made in the ’80s, not 2007…

But you like fancy things. Thus, your opinion is invalid.

Also, it's cool. I like it. The GT-R has always had a rep for technology. I don't have a desire to own one.

Also, I can't argue with you guys on who would own one of these. It's a performance car. People that like performance cars will own a performance car. If it's good, more people will own one. If it sucks, they'll still own them because they're idiots. Either that or they're obsessed with GT-Rs.

The majority of people who would consider this car already know what it is. of course, there are people who get a huge salary check just out of college, like M5Power, and buy the car because it's expensive, gets chicks, and has an automatic, but most of the possible buyers aren't dumb like Doug.

 

[Tornado]

Bringing up the question who is this car marketed to?

People who wanted the GT-R to come to America.

 

[Joey D]

People who wanted the GT-R to come to America.

And are those young kids who have either a.) played a lot of video games or b.) watched to many import movies?

 

[McLaren]

And are those young kids who have either a.) played a lot of video games or b.) watched to many import movies?

How about the grown men who thought it was a good looking car and decided they wanted it excluding the fact it's a Nissan.

This car is also for those who want something different from everyone else. And that's a huge market.

 

[Tornado]

And are those young kids who have either a.) played a lot of video games or b.) watched to many import movies?

Actually, those are people who wanted the Skyline GT-R sold here. I'm not going to break it down into age group or demographic, because

1. That would be besides the point.
2. Neither you nor I know what people are in that target demographic.
3. Nissan certainly seems to think that people will just see it as a great Porsche alternative just like every one else did in 1989. If you do something right, people will most likely come to see even if you are unknown. I can't see Nissan screwing this up, either.
4. The fact that Nissan doesn't have the car before doesn't mean it won't sell. Everyone has to start from somewhere, just like Nissan originally did with the GT-R all those years ago.

 

[Joey D]

I can't see a 45 year old man buying an $80k Nissan over a Porsche...I honestly can't.

 

[Tornado]

I can't see a 45 year old man buying an $80k Nissan over a Porsche...I honestly can't.

Which is all fine and dandy, but the original R32 GT-R proved that summation wrong. So who's to say that this car won't as well?

 

[McLaren]

I can't see a 45 year old man buying an $80k Nissan over a Porsche...I honestly can't.

Again, there's a huge market for people who want something different from the crowd. That's exactly what the GT-R will be.

 

[Joey D]

Once again it's MY opinion that I don't think middle aged men will buy it over a Porsche because I don't think it's catering to them. Is that clear enough now?

I'm not saying that it's a fact that every single 45 year old man will want a 911 and never bother to look at a GT-R.

 

[Tornado]

Once again it's MY opinion that I don't think middle aged men will buy it over a Porsche because I don't think it's catering to them. Is that clear enough now?

And I am merely saying that $80,000 will buy you a whole lot more Nissan (1) than it will buy you Porsche (0). In fact, you could buy 1.5 Nissans for the cost of 1 Porsche of equal value. Besides, the fact that the GT-R has no heritage in America would be negated by Nissan going through great pains to educate us about said heritage, just like Subaru did with the WRX.

 

[McLaren]

And who the heck thinks only 45 year old men will be deciding the fate of the GT-R?

I've seen plenty people able to afford the GT-R between 21 and 50.

 

[Joey D]

And that has nothing to do with anything we are talking about. The Carrea starts at about $74k, the GT-R is going to start around there as well.

And who the heck thinks only 45 year old men will be deciding the fate of the GT-R?

I've seen plenty people able to afford the GT-R between 21 and 50.

I was just guessing the average age of most 80 grand buyers is middle aged or older. I don't know many 21 year olds that can drop 80 large on a car.

 

[McLaren]

And that has nothing to do with anything we are talking about. The Carrea starts at about $74k, the GT-R is going to start around there as well.

But the Carrera is not in the same performance level as the GT-R. The closest Porsche is the $126,000 Turbo.

I was just guessing the average age of most 80 grand buyers is middle aged or older. I don't know many 21 year olds that can drop 80 large on a car.

There's still a large amount of people with $100,000 to spend between 21 and 50.

 

[Joey D]

But the Carrera is not in the same performance level as the GT-R. The closest Porsche is the $126,000 Turbo.

You aren't buying performance, you are buying a name. Porsche has more of a name then Nissan, no? If you can afford an $80K Nissan chances are you can get the more expensive turbo one. But since you want to go performance for dollar how about the cheaper Z06?

There's still a large amount of people with $100,000 to spend between 21 and 50.

21? I don't think so. 30-50 ya sure.

 

[Tornado]

And that has nothing to do with anything we are talking about.

This is coming from someone who contends that if a car has similar performance to another, it must have similar sales (as they are obviously direct competitors) or it is a total failure.
The fact that the GT-R will cost over $40,000 less than the similar 911 Turbo has a dramatic impact on how many sales it gets. Do you think Nissan would sell a single car if it did cost as much as the 911 Turbo? Under $80,000 is a great sweet spot, as it allows the car to undercut the 911 Turbo by enough that it will steal sales from it from every demographic except Porsche snobs.

The Carrea starts at about $74k, the GT-R is going to start around there as well.

I misread the pricing.

You aren't buying performance, you are buying a name.

And there is always a large amount of people who don't buy into a name because the substitute is just as good, for less. Which is what the GT-R has always appealed to.

 

[Joey D]

Fine like I said put it up against the Z06...I just wanted to use the Porsche so people didn't scream I was a Z06 fanboy or something.

 

[Tornado]

Then it will probably be roughly equal with the Z06 performance wise, just like the 911 Turbo. Unlike the 911 Turbo, however, it will be in around the same ball park as the Z06 is for cost, so the Corvette doesn't win that much on price like it does with the 911.

 

[YSSMAN]

I seem to recall the 997T having some fairly strong limitations by comparison to the Z06 and the SRT-10, but I may be mistaken. It doesn't make me dislike the car any less, it just makes me that much more attracted to the GT2. Or the GT3.

Still, I do want the GT-R to be successful, but like Joey, I really am uncertain of how well it will do right away. Sure, the magazines will all drive it home as to how awesome this car is, but I do think that this is going to be less-appealing to that 45+ group that will be looking to spend $80K on a new sports car. Like Joey said, most of the people who know what it is are less than 30 years of age, don't have enough cash, and instead have to wait for the car to sit in the used car market for a bit.

...But as I said earlier, Nissan won't likely send many to the US (I'd guess fewer than 7.5K), so it likely won't be too big of a problem. Oh, and the fact it doesn't have any Nissan badges on it either... Okay, there is one...

 

[harrytuttle]

Actually, no... The price increase on a Corvette would be minimal if it would ever increase to AWD.

Why?

They'd likely steal the parts from beneath the trucks and stick it under the Vette, making a price increase between $3-5K. Otherwise, if they found a way to adapt the Saab XWD setup (I don't think it can handle the power yet), that too would be an increase that would likely be less than $5K overall.

It's one thing to steal parts, it's another to adapt those parts to an extremely different chassis. Where exactly do you suppose Chevrolet should fit the front differential after the front-mid-mounted V8? Did you forget why previous Audi's have been nose-heavy? And how much torque do you really think the Impreza (because that's the one you were really talking about) drivetrain can handle? I'm picturing splintered driveshafts daily if they should ever test such a thing.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Hmmm, kinda surprised MT will end up being the first to show the GT-R.

Personally, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it will end up being. Yes, 80k for a Nissan is a lot, but I don't think this will be another NSX situation. The NSX literally had no history, and a larger price gap from the rest of the range (well, when introduced). Yes, a lot of people who know about the GT-R are young... but explain the huge demand for the imported models in the States already? They're bought by older people. This car is known around the world due to its lineage in auto racing, so I'm going to assume that will account for a good chunk of sales in the US. And has so far been mentioned, that's probably going to be a fairly small market world-wide until they determine how successful it really will be here. The rest of the world already is willing to pay this amount.

 

[McLaren]

Hmmm, kinda surprised MT will end up being the first to show the GT-R.

Personally, I think people are making a bigger deal out of this than it will end up being. Yes, 80k for a Nissan is a lot, but I don't think this will be another NSX situation. The NSX literally had no history, and a larger price gap from the rest of the range (well, when introduced).

It may have had no history, but the fact that those who knew Senna's involvement with it, and read about how it tore Ferrari a new one gobbled it up.

The NSX's price was it's only major downfall. The car though, still remained priceless to those who knew of its capabilities.

 

[///M-Spec]

I can see where Joey D is going from on this. In the US, the GT-R will have a very strong appeal to younger buyers who have a much higher awareness of what it is. The older, more conservative buyers will tend to gravitate toward the traditional brands like Porsche, Jaguar, Mercedes, Corvette, etc. It goes deeper than simple badge snobbery: a 911 or Benz SL is a well known quantity to older Americans. A GT-R is not.

Do I believe Nissan can sell the GT-R in the States? Of course. There are many young, affluent buyers who will snatch one up and pay top dollar to do so. I wouldn't be surprised to see crazy dealer markups for the first year and wait lists until the second year of production.

Do I believe the GT-R will steal a few 911 or Corvette buyers? Probably. Older doesn't always mean conservative and I'm sure we'll see a few grey haired dentists or bank managers tooling around in a GT-R.

But the question is.. will there be enough young, affluent (or older but not-conservative) buyers to sustain GT-R sales for 6 or 7 years?

Remember, NSX sales were very strong in the US for the first couple of years. Then the car went into a long, steady decline. By contrast, 911 sales have been very steady and predictable --so long as world economy is strong, Porsche has no trouble selling cars.

So once the initial orgy of pent-up demand is satisfied, are there enough people who make well into the six figure range willing to step into a Nissan dealership and drop 80 large?

I think it all depends on what Nissan's expectations are for the car. If they are conservative, they will probably do well. If they are like Honda in 1989 and expect to take away half of Porsche's business, I think they will fail. If they don't care if the car makes or loses money in the US (which is always possible), that's another story.

Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with how good a car the new GT-R is. But it has much more to do with marketing and perception.


M

 

[TheCracker]

I think it all depends on what Nissan's expectations are for the car. If they are conservative, they will probably do well. If they are like Honda in 1989 and expect to take away half of Porsche's business, I think they will fail. If they don't care if the car makes or loses money in the US (which is always possible), that's another story.

Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with how good a car the new GT-R is. But it has much more to do with marketing and perception.

Previous generation GT-R's have always been targeted towards the domestic market. I don't even know if they officially sold it outside of Japan before the R34 model. I know that the R34 GT-R was the only Skyline sold through dealerships in the UK.

If Nissan is happy selling similar numbers domestically to what they have done previously, then anything sold elsewhere will be a bonus. I would think that they are aiming higher this time though.

 

[Race Idiot]

Previous generation GT-R's have always been targeted towards the domestic market. I don't even know if they officially sold it outside of Japan before the R34 model. I know that the R34 GT-R was the only Skyline sold through dealerships in the UK.

I think there were a few UK spec R33's that were sold in Nissan dealerships also.

I don't like the slanty front lights but the interior is awesome and the fact that its a modern car that they havent decided to cover the entire engine in slabs of plastic. I mean god I can actually see the damn engine.

 

[///M-Spec]

Previous generation GT-R's have always been targeted towards the domestic market. I don't even know if they officially sold it outside of Japan before the R34 model. I know that the R34 GT-R was the only Skyline sold through dealerships in the UK.

If Nissan is happy selling similar numbers domestically to what they have done previously, then anything sold elsewhere will be a bonus. I would think that they are aiming higher this time though.

That is a good point. Does anyone know if the GT-R actually makes money for Nissan in Japan?

That being said, there is also an enormous cost associated with putting the car in US (and EU) showrooms. Aside from the obvious left-hand drive conversion, there is crash and emissions testing, training of service, sales and management personnel at corporate and dealership levels, introducing new parts to the supply chain, internal administration costs and of course marketing (which I assure everyone from first hand experience is very, very expensive ).

Don't get me wrong. I think Nissan NEEDS this car in more markets. I'm just not sure how successful it will be, if at all, outside the home one.


M

 

[YSSMAN]

Don't get me wrong. I think Nissan NEEDS this car in more markets. I'm just not sure how successful it will be, if at all, outside the home one.

I think you're completely right... With the fanboy goggles on, we're all going to go "Ape-S" over this car for the first year or two, but after that, its hard to say what will happen. In the US, cars come and go, and I know its much the same with Europe as well. Sure, it has a history, and yes some people know about it, but like you said, this isn't the 911 or Corvette with a well-established base here in America (or Europe).

I want it to be successful. I want Nissan to be successful with it. I just don't know (like others) how easy it will be to do.

 

[Joey D]

Autoweek gave it drive and you can read about it here:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071017/FREE/71017001/1004/FREE&rssfeed=rss01

 

[peeweegary]

im not sure if this has been posted but i find this to be quite impressive...

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/10/17/nissan-gt-r-lapped-nurburgring-in-735-beats-slr-mclaren/

link basically says the gt-r lapped the ring faster than the slr mclaren.

 

[Joey D]

Is there any word on the boost pressure of the GT-R? I mean that much power out of a 6 cylinder doesn't seem like it would produce an overly reliable engine.