Ok, people. Can we please just take a step back, cool down, look at what we're saying, and realize that we're all different people with different preferences talking about a highly subjective thing here? We're not debating the implications of an absolute, transcendent moral truth here - though some would certainly like to think this issue is as essential.
kingcars66 linked me to this thread, and I responded to it to him in and IM, so I'm just going to copy and paste my 'observations' of this thread in my post.
You and Leonidae are really arguing two different points. Leonidae is arguing that modern automatics are faster than even the fastest shifting driver with a manual transmission and due to recent modern advances, is THE choice for extreme, ultimate performance situations. He's right. No guy yanking on a stick can come close to replicating the fast shifts of today's performance automatics. Yes, I hate to admit that as much as you do, but I have to. YOU're arguing that you don't CARE how much faster an auto is, it removes you from the experience and cuts down on the intimate connection between you, machine, and road. You'd rather lose some time in the shifts and gain the feel and joy of jerking that shifter around. I would agree with you. However, I see both sides, and I think the two of you are failing to see what each other is really arguing.
He's just getting ridiculous now. [In reference to the "well then you should ride a bicycle" argument.] However, I think he's perceiving you to be saying that a manual transmission is superior to an automatic because more is required of the driver. He's taking that to the extreme saying you have to do EVERYthing on your own. Yes, really ridiculous, but it is the logical conclusion of what he's perceiving to be your premise. Is the manual superior to the automatic? Or is the automatic superior to the manual? Neither. If we talk about shifting times, auto. If we talk about weight, manual. If we talk about driver involvement, manual. Etc, etc. They're really personal preferrences based on application.
But he's still perceiving you to be saying the manual IS BETTER. You can't say that, and I don't think you are saying that. You're saying that the driver's connection with the car is where the true joy of driving comes from for you, and so for you, a manual is superior to an automatic.
I hope we can at least mostly agree with that. Also hope I didn't step on too many toes, though a few would be ok.
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And, if I have to be honest, I do not want R35. Shocking, isn't it? I will most likely have something reasonable to drive, and preferably pre-'97 if possible. No drive-by-wire, traction control or stability management, and preferably RWD. Most likely choice is BMW 318ti.. Or '80 KP60 Starlet or KE35 Corolla.. something along those lines. Iäve driven cars with drive-by-wire everything, and be it Fiat Punto or Audi A4 Avant 2.0T quattro, I hated it with passion.
