2010 Korean Grand Prix

[Prince.M5]

Interesting race, lots of incident, and the championship is now upside-down!

I might have wasted one and half an hour in front of the TV just waiting for it to get started for real but it all worth it! I was quite angry of Webber left his car rolling backwards into the path of Nico Rosberg but that's how it goes, nothing much can do. Perhaps that's what he get whinning so much for the race to not get started. I feel the pain in the Red Bull's camp but 2 more races for them to prove.

Right towards the end of the race, Vettel was complaining of the visibility and suggesting the race should stop there while actually, it could be his engine was about to go. Brilliant words, but didn't work... Rocket Sutil didn't get them all right, surprised how strong Kobayashi's front suspension can take up that impact. Another good result by Lotus, and for the first time in this year, Red Bull sister team Toro Rosso finished ahead of both Red Bull for the first time this year. Hispania on the other hand I think has got their best finish of the season.

Congratulations to Alonso after all, and not expecting Massa to be up there at all. I saw somebody comment about the car getting really dirty, the last time I saw cars got really dirty was in 2008 British GP in Silverstone where the race was wet all the way.

Great job by the circuit organiser, this has been the best grand prix of the season!

 

[Prince.M5]

Why is it double posting?

Sorry about this.

 

[The Outlaw]

The Brawn of last year and this year's Red Bull have been far more superior than any other car in the last years. Neither Webber nor Button would have won the WDR in a McLaren 2008, a Ferrari in 2007 or a Renault in 2005-06. Those cars where not as superior as their contenders and Webber and Button are simply not good enough to win in a car that is not so much better than the rest.

I share the same opinion.

Personally I don't really get off on seeing 2nd rate drivers win titles, even if they are very likeable, down to earth (from an outsiders perspective) individuals (like Button & Webber). I don't watch F1, looking for drivers personality which I like so I can be a fan of them - I'm a fan of a driver strictly because of the way they perform in all aspects on the track...that's it.

Right towards the end of the race, Vettel was complaining of the visibility and suggesting the race should stop there while actually, it could be his engine was about to go. Brilliant words, but didn't work...

More like a dirty cheat (if you're of the anti-Ferrari mindset and always looking for something to bitch and moan about) - lying simply so he could try and have the race ended early in order to avoid a DNF due to their own faults Where's the SPORTSMANSHIP in that??? wah wah wah!!!

 

[C-ZETA]

Sorry to go off topic, but not only has Liuzzi boosted his rating at Force India, but so has di Grassi at Virgin. After all...he was holding the fastest lap for a brief time.

Yes, that is a rubbish joke.

 

[The Outlaw]

Oh yea I forgot. Another complete fail from Petrov. Ridiculous how such rubbish can buy their way into an F1 seat I did feel bad for the guy when he was walking back to the pits though He look quite dejected and must have realized what this meant for his seat at Renault.

 

[Matti_Dude]

I'm pretty sure Vettel wasn't trying to get the race stopped because he knew his engine was on the way out. I would be very surprised if he knew it was going to happen that much earlier, more like he just wanted the race to finish as it was because he was in the lead.

 

[The Outlaw]

I'm pretty sure Vettel wasn't trying to get the race stopped because he knew his engine was on the way out. I would be very surprised if he knew it was going to happen that much earlier, more like he just wanted the race to finish as it was because he was in the lead.

And wanted to take the easy, unsporting way out as Alonso was catching up

 

[Alex.]

Hamilton and Vettel were the only guys wanting the race to even start.

 

[The Outlaw]

Hamilton and Vettel were the only guys wanting the race to even start.

And did you go up and down the grid asking each and every driver every 5 minutes?

It was quite clear why Webber did not and would not want the race to start. A case of nothing to gain and everything to lose as the race would later prove

 

[Bram Turismo]

3. He has never done anything to deserve #2. Having a mediocre car for x amount of years like Button did doesn't mean you deserve to luck into a title.

I don't really agree with this.

Webber never got a better car in previous years because the top teams all had their own stars and had no reason to swap one of their drivers for Mark. Last year was his real first chance to show his speed in top car.

If the Cosworth engine wouldn't be so rubbish in 2006 he would've scored Williams some damned nice results!

I fail to see how Webber isn't a title worthy F1 driver when he has played a huge part in Red Bull's F1 journey and it's evolvement so far. Given the fact that he has out-performed Vettel throughout the season I really fail to see how Webber is not worthy of the title.

 

[Alex.]

And did you go up and down the grid asking each and every driver every 5 minutes?

Yes that's exactly what I did.

 

[Antti-san]

Personally I don't really get off on seeing 2nd rate drivers win titles, even if they are very likeable, down to earth (from an outsiders perspective) individuals (like Button & Webber). I don't watch F1, looking for drivers personality which I like so I can be a fan of them - I'm a fan of a driver strictly because of the way they perform in all aspects on the track...that's it.

A "2nd rate driver" doesn't win four races though - no matter how superior the car is. Saying otherwise is severely underestimating the skills needed to be competitive in F1 IMO.

 

[Anghammarad]

A "2nd rate driver" doesn't win four races though - no matter how superior the car is. Saying otherwise is severely underestimating the skills needed to be competitive in F1 IMO.

There's no doubt that Webber is in the very elite in the world when it comes to racing skills. But Hamilton he's not, or Alonso, and probably not even Kubica. But he is just as good as Button, Vettel and Massa.

 

[The Outlaw]

If the Cosworth engine wouldn't be so rubbish in 2006 he would've scored Williams some damned nice results!

Lets no forget he basically got outperformed by Heidfield (who's not even a race winner and likely won't even have a seat next year) in 06. The only reason Webber scored more points was becase Heidfield sat out the last few races of the season.

A "2nd rate driver" doesn't win four races though - no matter how superior the car is. Saying otherwise is severely underestimating the skills needed to be competitive in F1 IMO.

To me he's a 2nd rate driver in Formula 1. Meaning he's not on par with the likes of Hamilton and Alonso in equal machinery. That's my opinion though. I said the same about Button last year and look at the general stamp of authority Hamilton has put on Button this season. Personally I feel the RB6 chassis can make almost any driver in F1 look good with it's "on rails" type of handling.

Edit:

There's no doubt that Webber is in the very elite in the world when it comes to racing skills. But Hamilton he's not, or Alonso, and probably not even Kubica. But he is just as good as Button, Vettel and Massa.

Again, I agree.

I feel Vettel has a lot of potential, but he still has some maturing to do as Hamilton did in his first year or two (although Vettel has seemed a bit better in the past few races in terms of staying collected). He's proven he has immense speed, but not much else of yet. Kind of reminds me of Gilles Villnueve in his early years

 

[Antti-san]

There's no doubt that Webber is in the very elite in the world when it comes to racing skills. But Hamilton he's not, or Alonso, and probably not even Kubica. But he is just as good as Button, Vettel and Massa.

Of course there are differences between the drivers, I agree - but Webber is far from being a "hack" like some people are saying.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Lets no forget he basically got outperformed by Heidfield (who's not even a race winner and likely won't even have a seat next year) in 06. The only reason Webber scored more points was becase Heidfield sat out the last few races of the season.

That was 2005, and he didn't get simply outperformed. Webber and Heidfeld kept leap-frogging each other in the standings with every race right until the US GP. From there Webber pretty much had bad races due to collisions.

Also:

That's my opinion though. I said the same about Button last year and look at the general stamp of authority Hamilton has put on Button this season.

Hamilton is only 21 points ahead of Button. I fail to see how Hamilton has put Button in his place as you say. A difference of 21 points over 18 races equals a pretty much equal performance by both drivers. And let's not forget Button has been in F1 for 10 years now and if it wouldn't have been for Honda's and Brawn's fairy-tale story most people would've probably all forgot about Button by this time.

 

[The Outlaw]

That was 2005, and he didn't get simply outperformed. Webber and Heidfeld kept leap-frogging each other in the standings with every race right until the US GP. From there Webber pretty much had bad races due to collisions.

Sorry, I meant 2005 Either way he didn't look to impressive against Heidfield and was often the slower driver in qualy.

Hamilton is only 21 points ahead of Button. I fail to see how Hamilton has put Button in his place as you say. A difference of 21 points over 18 races equals a pretty much equal performance by both drivers. And let's not forget Button has been in F1 for 10 years now and if it wouldn't have been for Honda's and Brawn's fairy-tale story most people would've probably all forgot about Button by this time.

They are quite close in points due to luck favoring one driver more than the other throughout the year. It's quite clear who is 9 times out of 10 the quicker driver in qualy and in racing conditions.

 

[J-PaP]

I don't really agree with this.

Webber never got a better car in previous years because the top teams all had their own stars and had no reason to swap one of their drivers for Mark. Last year was his real first chance to show his speed in top car.

If the Cosworth engine wouldn't be so rubbish in 2006 he would've scored Williams some damned nice results!

I fail to see how Webber isn't a title worthy F1 driver when he has played a huge part in Red Bull's F1 journey and it's evolvement so far. Given the fact that he has out-performed Vettel throughout the season I really fail to see how Webber is not worthy of the title.

Webber by all means is a brilliant driver and definitely in the top half of the drivers in F1 at the moment but like has been said, he isn't Alonso or Hamilton. My point in the end is that if he was in machinery that didn't give him such an advantage he would be sitting where Massa/Rosberg are this season. Close but not quite there. Vettel is about the same but Vettel still has some years to improve and shines at moments (ie. any wet race) unlike Webber who has probably improved as much as he can.

If anybody should be getting any kind of title this year it should be Newey for designing such a brilliant car.

A "2nd rate driver" doesn't win four races though - no matter how superior the car is. Saying otherwise is severely underestimating the skills needed to be competitive in F1 IMO.

Button won like 7 last year didn't he? So winning 4 in a superior car is definitely possible for a 2nd rate driver.

 

[The Outlaw]

If anybody should be getting any kind of title this year it should be Newey for designing such a brilliant car.

This

 

[JB-BMW1989]

I'm glad that Alonso won. I'm sure he can dominate in the Ferrari more than in the Renault. It's a great start for him!

 

[Prince.M5]

More like a dirty cheat (if you're of the anti-Ferrari mindset and always looking for something to bitch and moan about) - lying simply so he could try and have the race ended early in order to avoid a DNF due to their own faults Where's the SPORTSMANSHIP in that??? wah wah wah!!!

I'm pretty sure Vettel wasn't trying to get the race stopped because he knew his engine was on the way out. I would be very surprised if he knew it was going to happen that much earlier, more like he just wanted the race to finish as it was because he was in the lead.

Well, it was indeed a dirty cheat and I think the one whose trying to cheat a lot this weekend are both Red Bull drivers...

Webber not wanting to drive claiming about safety while his real intention was to not having a race so he will stay on top, knowing something bad will happen if he race in that situation.

Vettel, complaining about visibility around 10 laps before the end claiming it was getting really bad while Hamilton says the visibility was very fine. Owkey I do get it they have their own opinion but if somebody says it was owkey, then it was owkey and no point for the race to be stopped. Furthermore, I think he already knew he had an engine problem when he notice the performance started to drop gradually... As Matti_Dude said, it could also be he was in the lead, and wanting to stop because he started to lose pace and Alonso catching him.

I'm not of those anti-Ferrari mindset or whatever but this is not a good look for Formula 1.

God we have no idea what was in their mind that time, their real intention. All my words there are all just speculations and what I thought of their movement. But afterall, these drivers are not proving themselves as real drivers and real sportsman. It's a shame really!

 

[Shaggy Alonso]

Has to be said, even if Vettel is not on balance the most deserving candidate for champion this season, he would have walked it but for reliability. That's 63 virtually guaranteed points that he lost in Bahrain, Melbourne and Korea, quite a bit more than Hamilton who's been the next unluckiest in terms of points lost through no fault of their own.

Alonso on the other hand has gained a lot through other drivers misfortune, Bahrain obviously, Australia, Catalunya, Hockenheim (let's not go into this one though ) and now Korea. I still think if it's two dry races to come then Webber will win the title, but otherwise it could well be Alonso - Hamilton and Vettel are the outside bets.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

As much as I hate Alonso, I'm actually going to be supporting him for the next two races. He needs as many points as he can get, because if he wins by seven or less, Formula 1 loses credibility.

 

[DGiant2000]

Was it a good race? Thanks to the 🤬 BBC, I missed the last 15 laps or so, just so the Andrew Marr show could be shown on BBC1

 

[Alex.]

It's called BBC2.

 

[DGiant2000]

It's called BBC2.

Thanks for the insight

If you Sky+ it however, it doesn't have the common sense to switch channels when the BBC decide to.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Sorry, I meant 2005 Either way he didn't look to impressive against Heidfield and was often the slower driver in qualy.



They are quite close in points due to luck favoring one driver more than the other throughout the year. It's quite clear who is 9 times out of 10 the quicker driver in qualy and in racing conditions.

Button has a higher average finishing position so he is holding his own in my view.

 

[Alex.]

Thanks for the insight

If you Sky+ it however, it doesn't have the common sense to switch channels when the BBC decide to.

That's a feature it needs. It would've been fine if the race was on time.

 

[Ardius]

First off, I'm sick of reading the same old utter crap about "2nd rate drivers", "they got lucky with their car", "its the designer not the driver".
Look, obviously we can say who is better drivers than others but at the end of the day they are all good drivers who are worthy of their place. Everyone requires luck, money and skill to win, I really don't see why people feel the need to start bagging on Webber (and previously Button) just because he isn't Alonso or Hamilton. It frankly smells of a combination of jealousy and fanboyism. Webber has done a good job this year, he has made his mistakes and he has his weaknesses like any other driver on the grid.

Some people really need to go back and watch seasons like 2008 if they don't see how Webber deserves his shot at the title. I can't believe people even think this, how idiotic? Who does deserve a shot if Webber does not? This is not about being nice, its simply a matter of fact that Webber is a good driver ergo he has earnt his chance.

I have never really cared for Webber and I don't really think much of him overall. I can only appluad his 2010 season, he has performed well above my expecatations of him.

Shall we deny Rosberg a chance, cause he hasn't done much really has he? 👎 What are Mercedes doing hiring him when they should hire "deserving" drivers like Schumacher...oh wait.

Anyway, to the race, it was a nice surprise, pretty crazy. I haven't really taken in all that has happened yet .

Congrats to Alonso, I'm actually pleased to see him win purely because Red Bull are really not professional enough to deserve the title this year. Nice to see Massa on the podium, I hope he can pull himself together again.

Also congrats to Schumaher for another good race. Petrov was doing decent till his crash, Kubica doing his usual magic, Williams on decent pace again.
Sutil not doing his Renault talks any favours too. This race really was a contract-defining race wasn't it?

Was it a good race? Thanks to the 🤬 BBC, I missed the last 15 laps or so, just so the Andrew Marr show could be shown on BBC1

Thanks for the insight

If you Sky+ it however, it doesn't have the common sense to switch channels when the BBC decide to.

Not really the BBC's fault. Would you rather they not broadcast it at all?

And besides....there is a reason iPlayer exists....

 

[daan]

Sutil was a crash waiting to happen.

When it did, he then waited for another one...

And another...