2012 Canadian Grand Prix

  • Thread starter Ross
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well, to try and address a lot of people on several maters:

a) if the race was 5-10 laps longer, Grosjean and Perez would not have the tires to get Hamilton. Also, Hamilton in perfect communication with his team, would have made pit stops one or two laps later if needed. And I don't even think he did need, he was just holding his pace at the end.

b) If you read my posting, you know I like Grosjean. A lot. He drove superb races in GP2 and won me a long time ago. But he is driving a Lotus, probably the fastest car. So yes, his drive was very good, but Hamilton coming from a struggling Mac team, and despite sub-par pitting won. And Perez? HE IS DRIVING A FREAKIN SAUBER PEOPLE. Why was there so much praise of Madonado P1 in a relatively ease cruise, and Perez has done nothing much? Seriously??? I find his drive hard to match not in this race, but in the entire championship run this far.

c) and apologies for the off-topic but... I get trolling in BF3 and humiliating/infuriating your oponents, or to be funny in a specific witty and hilarious fashion. I do not get "Vettel trolling" on a thread of your pears just for you own personal kicks. I see it as funny and stupid as molesting your sister. Sorry, no offense. Just my "funny" opinion. I guess anyone is entitled to one...
 
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Peasantslayer
I agree with what Jacques Villeneuve said about the Lotus, it is possibly the fastest car out there but it is being driven by 2 drivers who are currently below par. Grosjean is making Kimi look slow in qualifying and Alonso made Grosjean look terrible when they were team mates. I would like to see one of them replaced at some point so we can see how fast that car is, I think Heikki could do a better job than they are. Hamilton was maintaining the gap to Grosjean at the end and on the last lap he lost a lot of time because he wasn't taking any risks.
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Your kidding right.....I want to be nice so i say thats probably completely wrong...

Raikkonen below par? Grosjean below par? Grosjean made 1 pit stop. And was blisteringly quick on fifty lap old tires..He effectively did the same strategy as Alonso and was significantly quicker in the later stages of the race.

Villeneuve is a quack...

The reason Grosjean outqualified Kimi here is because Kimi's differential had a hydraulics problem. Not to mention all the other mistakes they have made in the previous qualy sessions not sending him out on time etc.

Not saying grosjean isnt faster than Kimi but to say those two guys are below par is total quatsch...
This is the least well though out post i have read all day long...
 
Was good to see Hamilton arrive back in F1. When he got the radio call informing him that Alonso and Vettel may 1 stop I was expecting the old Hamilton "What the hell guys?". Amazed not to hear that, but Hamilton instead just got his head down and drove on with some stunning laps. He then caught both Vettel and Alonso and made identical moves. He did not rush the pass (Alonso looked like he was trying to take Hamilton's wing off at times - probably a biased view but braking and lines were erratic for the entire lap) and waited for the easy DRS assisted pass. That kind of patience was what he messed up on so badly last year (most notably at Canada ironically).

Fantastic drives from both Perez and Grosjean to make a 1 stop strategy work. More than worthy of their places on the podium.

I'm confused as to why Alonso didn't pit after falling behind Hamilton. Praise to both Alonso and Vettel for thinking only of the win, but once that was a lost cause then second should have been the next target. Vettel also could have pitted a couple of laps sooner.

Concerned by Schumachers' DRS issues in the race. As stated by the commentators, the flap should default to closed and I hope that an investigation gets to the bottom of the issue. By the look of the mechanics not being able to force it shut, I'd imagine that it would be hydraulics of sorts locked open. The result of the fault could have had far worse results had the team not told him about the issue.

Finally, DRS itself was far too effective again yesterday. Massa's pass came without it on lap 2, and every pass down the back straight was far too easy after that with the passing car ahead before braking. The aim is to have the cars side by side in the braking zone, leaving the drivers half the work to do in order to complete the pass. Maybe next year the DRS zone should be moved elsewhere around the circuit where passing is more difficult.
 
pezzarinho17
I'm confused as to why Alonso didn't pit after falling behind Hamilton. Praise to both Alonso and Vettel for thinking only of the win, but once that was a lost cause then second should have been the next target. Vettel also could have pitted a couple of laps sooner.
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There's no use for the stop though. If he pitted, he will get out of the pit way behind Vettel already, perhaps even to Rosberg as he had already spend a couple of slow laps after Vettel came into the pit. His lap times for the last 10 laps were somewhere in the 1'20s so it was far too slow. Better stay out even if losing a place to Vettel rather than wasting more time in the pit.

pezzarinho17
Finally, DRS itself was far too effective again yesterday. Massa's pass came without it on lap 2, and every pass down the back straight was far too easy after that with the passing car ahead before braking. The aim is to have the cars side by side in the braking zone, leaving the drivers half the work to do in order to complete the pass. Maybe next year the DRS zone should be moved elsewhere around the circuit where passing is more difficult.
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This year's DRS zone has been reduced to 600m and if that's still too effective, they can shorten it further. Placing it anywhere else on the track might be dangerous especially the straight between turn 7 and 8. Perhaps on the main straight, could work.

Blaze_409
The only cars that couldnt effectively use DRS were the Red Bulls.
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Yeah. In fact, they have a slow straight line speed compared to Ferrari and McLaren.
 
Prince.M5
Yeah. In fact, they have a slow straight line speed compared to Ferrari and McLaren.
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Weirdly enough, the HRT of Pedro was fastest in the speed traps, didn't help them that much though. I can understand why Mercedes's DRS didn't have much effect here.
 
gorsad
Weirdly enough, the HRT of Pedro was fastest in the speed traps, didn't help them that much though. I can understand why Mercedes's DRS didn't have much effect here.
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It didn't help much because that car is still a handful around the corners, and that's where the other cars gained a lot of time.
 
So for real, what in the heck is up with Jenson Button? He finished last year in second, getting 2 wins and 9 podiums in the last 10 races, and started this year fantastically, with a dominating win and then a second. And now? What's up? He has three straight out of the points, he can't qualify and he can't go anywhere in the race. And unless his car for some reason is significantly different than his teammate's, than it isn't the car, because Hamilton is doing fine obviously.
 
Tired Tyres
Miss Australia did we? 💡 I don't see a tyre issue there.

Button's issue was losing time on Friday. F1 is very competitive this year and you cannot afford to lose set up and development time like that. If you do, two or three TEAMS will take your place in a flash.

Look at the three drivers who dominated this race for a perfect example of this. Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel.

Only one of them finished on the podium.

The other two make slight tactical mistakes and that was enough to allow a Lotus-Ranault and a Sauber onto the podium.

The margins are super close this year.

I can easily see both Lotus-Renault and Sauber winning this season and if the cards fall right I can see Force India winning as well.

To those, you can add the teams that have already won so far.

That's a lot of drivers ready to take advantage of any slip by anyone.
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Australia is a higher downforce track than Canada. Driving styles aside, the car will put energy into the tyres on its own, somewhat solving the problem. Ardius mentioned this already.

Regarding the HRT incident, it seems that they noticed during Free Practice that the brakes were suffering, and that they were likely not to finish the race. I don't think that they tried a start/park, but rather tried to underfuel the car a bit, to see if they could put a bit less strain on the brakes, at a cost of racing speed. Unfortunately for them, that didn't pay off.

I don't think either car was in a competitive position when they retired. If i'm not mistaken, de la Rosa was already overtaken by the Marussias when he retired, and Narain retired out alone on the track.
 
LMSCorvetteGT2
First off it's been documented that the car is alot easier on the tires that many others, that's point one. Point two however is that he wasn't making fast laps everywhere and his fastest lap wasn't achieved till lap 67, he did have the second best sector two time of the race. Let's not make the Sauber out to be the same type of car it has been the past two years, it is far better. The only thing I can really agree with here is that he moved up the field greatly with the help of one stop as well and the help of Vettel and Alonso's strategies not working in the end.

Truth is he raced hard to get up there but let's not stretch it out as if the car couldn't isn't capable of what we saw today. All in all he made the best out of his car and it helped in the end.



Spoken like a true Vettel fan, you're doing well sticking to your cause though. As said last year when Hamilton had his awful strategies, it is as much his fault as his engineers. I can actually be swayed and agree that Perez had the best day, but Vettel salvaged his day.

I'd say Hamilton had the best day, but looking through the stats and team work as well as race craft, I'd have to give it to both Lewis and Sergio.
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So the arguably best driver in the arguably best car qualifies 2nd, finishes 1st, and that's the drive of the day? I'd call that an expected result. Not to mention the fact that he was greatly aided by his two main competitors for this race messing up their tire strategy quite badly.
 
I’m really happy to see much praise for Perez here in GTP. The guy has a freaking lot of talent, but most of the times the car won’t let him back that up. We (the magazine I work for) have been following him ever since his GP1/2 and it was obvious he was a diamond in the rough.

Yesterday’s race put that clear across, and I really hope we can see more of him very soon. Heck, as someone said, he was driving a freaking Sauber and took back 12 places. The strategy was risky of course, but he treats his tires as if they’re made of some exotic silk. I’m sure he’ll continue to get good results when the car lets him.
 
Such intense races lately. This tyre wear actually remind me of online racing in GT5, they wear out so fast.
Don't know what they were thinking in Ferrari and RBR. I instantlly knew Hamilton will pass them both and win if they dont pit for new tyres. But I certanlly didnt expect Romain and Sergio on the podium, thats is just great. I see this two drivers as the future of F1!
 
prisonermonkeys
Based on some comments from Ted Kravitz, it appears HRT knew that they were not going to make it to the end of the race. Both de la Rosa and Karthikeyan retired within two laps of one another with the same problem, giving rise to the theory that HRT knew their brakes would not last the distance (and also leading to them fuelling their cars very lightly). Does anyone know anything about this? It really is something that the stewards should investigate.
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Woah woah hold on there. Ted Kravitz mentioned there was a rumour HRT knowningly raced with possible brake issues. This by no means a confirmation like you are suggesting.

HRT were suffering brake issues on Kathikeyan's car in practice. Likely some rival teams have connected the dots and thought perhaps HRT had brake issues that they didn't cure.

Its quite a jump from that to then suggesting they are "start and parking". I would have thought HRT's past would have made it clear they are not a start and park team - they very much wanted to finish the race!
However, I wouldn't be surprised that HRT were unable to solve their brake issues and went into the race with some attempts to fix hoping they had done the job.

This is a team low on spares and money so I also wouldn't be surprised if this played into it.

I'm also wondering if the low downforce package they brought caught them out with brakes or if they simply didn't have the parts to cool the brakes properly. There could be any number of reasons really.

I am surprised however that people are so willing to make a jump judging them from being typical backmarkers to start & park! Seems people are one word away from suggesting they are like Andrea Moda and it couldn't be further from the truth!

Why on earth would HRT knowingly decide to race not intending to finish a race where they had a clear pace advantage over Marussia? This was one of their best chances!

If anything I would be surprised if a driver like Pedro de La Rosa would even agree to drive a car without reliable brakes - he was the only driver complaining about Monaco not being great anymore, he's hardly a risk-taker.

A few years back Red Bull were caught out with brakes at Singapore. I don't remember anyone saying they should be investigated.
 
Blaze_409
Your kidding right.....I want to be nice so i say thats probably completely wrong...

Raikkonen below par? Grosjean below par? Grosjean made 1 pit stop. And was blisteringly quick on fifty lap old tires..He effectively did the same strategy as Alonso and was significantly quicker in the later stages of the race.

Villeneuve is a quack...

The reason Grosjean outqualified Kimi here is because Kimi's differential had a hydraulics problem. Not to mention all the other mistakes they have made in the previous qualy sessions not sending him out on time etc.

Not saying grosjean isnt faster than Kimi but to say those two guys are below par is total quatsch...
This is the least well though out post i have read all day long...
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He was blisteringly quick on old tires because of his car? All I'm saying is Kimi was slow when he left Ferrari and Grosjean was slow when he left Renault and I've heard pundits constantly raving on about how fast the Lotus looks. They are obviously talented but at this stage of the year I don't think they are driving anywhere near as well as the guys at the top.

gorsad
Weirdly enough, the HRT of Pedro was fastest in the speed traps, didn't help them that much though. I can understand why Mercedes's DRS didn't have much effect here.
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Jerry Burgess once said that there are more short straights than long straights
 
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Cano
I’m really happy to see much praise for Perez here in GTP. The guy has a freaking lot of talent, but most of the times the car won’t let him back that up. We (the magazine I work for) have been following him ever since his GP1/2 and it was obvious he was a diamond in the rough.

Yesterday’s race put that clear across, and I really hope we can see more of him very soon. Heck, as someone said, he was driving a freaking Sauber and took back 12 places. The strategy was risky of course, but he treats his tires as if they’re made of some exotic silk. I’m sure he’ll continue to get good results when the car lets him.
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Discarding Perez, Grosjean and Maldonado (the latter only his speed, not racing craft) usually comes from ignoring their racing past. They are very fast and showing talent and maturity. Well, again, the latter, not Maldonado but still... Great drivers that deserve praising.
 
Speaking Maldonado, the difference in pace Williams is showing between tracks is astonishing. A few weeks ago Maldonado won the Spanish GP, yesterday they were hovering over what, 20th?
 
Bram Turismo
Speaking Maldonado, the difference in pace Williams is showing between tracks is astonishing. A few weeks ago Maldonado won the Spanish GP, yesterday they were hovering over what, 20th?
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He could've been at least 10th on qually. Then probably finish very well on a one stop. But he pulled one of his exagerations on the last corner and added a broken gearbox and 5 place penalty to an already missed qually.

Senna? Well, not having the new wing on Friday was bad for him, had one day to work one way, then start over, so adding the "incident" and some lack of motivation, he was barely on average pace IMO.
 
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Great race, I knew in the closing laps that Vettel and Alonso had no shot in keeping Hamilton behind them. He has had a couple of wins blown by poor pitwork this year, so it's been a long time coming; I think mentally, he needed a win.

I'll go out on a limb and pick him for WC this year; the car is good, and he has indeed shown maturity that was lacking in previous years. This has been so far an awesome season.
 
This was such a good race. One of the best this year so far for sure imo. Really happy for Grosjean, hopefully his luck can turn now.
 
Bram Turismo
Speaking Maldonado, the difference in pace Williams is showing between tracks is astonishing. A few weeks ago Maldonado won the Spanish GP, yesterday they were hovering over what, 20th?
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my opinion on this is that the williams is fast but the drivers arent using it properly. Which would make sens since the track they know the most is Montmello and they had the best result there. I think for the rest of the season those drivers are a bit lost in settings etc.. and can't get 100% of the car like they did in Montmello. Well it's one way of explaining it at least ^^
 
Goshin2568
So for real, what in the heck is up with Jenson Button? He finished last year in second, getting 2 wins and 9 podiums in the last 10 races, and started this year fantastically, with a dominating win and then a second. And now? What's up? He has three straight out of the points, he can't qualify and he can't go anywhere in the race. And unless his car for some reason is significantly different than his teammate's, than it isn't the car, because Hamilton is doing fine obviously.
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Well for this race his performance is slightly explainable, missing almost all of Friday is horrible and definitely hindered him. Mclaren have taken the blame for this week's horrible race.

But the 2 previous races are a mystery to me, my only observation is that Lewis can adapt his driving style to suit the car, while Button needs the car to have rear-end grip. It's not that he's a bad driver by any standards, he's just a bit picky (and whiny in my opinion). I think the bad results will end in 2 weeks time, at Valencia.
 
RX-7_FD3S
my opinion on this is that the williams is fast but the drivers arent using it properly. Which would make sens since the track they know the most is Montmello and they had the best result there. I think for the rest of the season those drivers are a bit lost in settings etc.. and can't get 100% of the car like they did in Montmello. Well it's one way of explaining it at least ^^
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In Montmello Maldonado got everything working for him, and the faster cars behind him. Only the Ferrari of Alonso was close, but it was not this Ferrari. And even to defend from that, Pastor had to "stall" him for 3/4 of the lap and them jump him on the last sector to escape the DRS.

Williams are perfectly capable of top 10 finishes. But so are their fast drivers. If they are motivated (Senna is clearly not) and do not screw up. Something at what Maldonado excels, with only one exception so far.


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This means I agree. Not pushing or pushing too hard is not using the car properly.
 
astrosdude91
Fernando Alonso. By far the best driver in the field. If it wasn't for his race engineers letting him down, he would've run away with this one. He has brilliant race craft. So he get's driver of the day honors.
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Fixed that for you.
 
Williams' results are due to the drivers underperforming? What on earth? Does the fact that Catalunya and Montreal being completely different tracks mean nothing to people? Does the Pirelli's being so sensitive to temperature and conditions mean nothing? The fact that Catalunya featured the use of different tyres?

I'm pretty sure Williams not challenging for another win is due to their car being very particular on its setup and track conditions. Just the same as Sauber being nowhere in some races.

I also find it amusing some are still overlooking Kobayashi immdiately after Perez has a storming race. Why is it so hard for people to admit both Sauber drivers are very good? If anything Kobayashi is more consistent race by race and in both Malaysia and Canada he lost out to Perez simply by being on the worse strategy.
The very same people don't even mention Kobayashi after he has great races like at Catalunya but are quick to mention him as soon as Perez does well. 👎
 
In the last GP at least yes Williams drivers were not doing as good as the car allows. The cars had the pace to be both in the top ten. I already stated Maldonado did a prety good race considering where he started, and did finish 10th, but could have done better if he'd qualified as expected, already in the top ten at the start.

And I agree Kobayashi is very good, and has been consistent, but there is no denying Perez drove outstatingly well.
 
I've never denied the fact that Kobayashi is very good and by far the most consistent in the Sauber team. Perez meanwhile is the opposite of Kobayashi. When he's fast, he will be fast but when he's slow, he really will be slow. Kobayashi will always go for it but the bad strategy, as mentioned, always made it look like he is far slower than his team mate.

So far, Kobayashi's best performance this season was in Catalunya, powering himself through the field with a couple of pin point accuracy overtaking moves. He's fast, he can drive, he can overtake, he's worth of a driver. I don't care if he gets a lot of mention or not, because when he shows a very good performance, he will eventually gets a mention.
 
Just asking a question here, but what if Alonso started on pole instead of Vettel, and Hamilton was moved to third? Do you still think he would've won it or would've Alonso been able to control the race.

I know it's all based on guesswork and the race is over now, but I was just wondering.
 
gorsad
Just asking a question here, but what if Alonso started on pole instead of Vettel, and Hamilton was moved to third? Do you still think he would've won it or would've Alonso been able to control the race.
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I actually don't really think that Alonso could run away and control the race from both of them. Hamilton could still leapfrog them from the stop, take advantage from the DRS and with the faulty strategy from both like last weekend, I'd say it could still be Hamilton's.

Unless, somehow Alonso can make a huge margin between them so that way, I think Alonso might have won. But then, it wouldn't be all that possible.

Despite the mistake made by the Ferrari team with Alonso's strategy, I have to compliment them for having the try to actually win the race. For the first time this year, they're trying to win with a raw pace and not simply depending on the weather and people falling backwards.
 

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