2012 Malaysian Grand Prix

[IceMan PJN]

It's funny how I get called out by almost everyone for blaming Karth for the Vettel incident immediately after it happened but now 5 pages later people are like "oh well yeah I guess he did move."

He was penalized by race officials who have access to much more video footage than we do, so I think it's pretty clear.

Having more footage makes for a comforting excuse, but doesn't necessarily mean that there actually was some telling piece of footage that really illustrates how it was Karthikeyan's fault. If there was something iffy that Karthikeyan did, it somehow isn't showing up in the slightest in any of the shots most of us have seen, and it's awful unlikely that there would be so much false perspective in all of the other shots that it's impossible to tell from all but that one magic camera view. That would be like having 341 cameras showing it as daytime but the reality is that it was the middle of the night but this fact only shows up in one single camera shot and the other 341 are all somehow making night appear as day.

While Karthikeyan did move, it was only slightly, and was following him rejoining the track after putting a wheel over the kerb. Karthikeyan moved inches while Vettel moved feet.

Yes he did, doesn't matter though as HRT is a team of mobile chicanes anyways so it won't effect their usual P24 finish.

It doesn't matter whether or not it effects their ultimate finishing spot. It's a matter of principal. Right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter who it's effecting.

If only Hamiltons pit stop went well...

I was hoping for Lewis to win and was not happy with the pit blunders, but that aside I'm not sure that he'd have won had McLaren not dropped the ball. Even when he had several seconds of open air between him and Perez up ahead of him, he still didn't seem to have quite the pace of the front two cars. I'd like to think that, had they not fowled up the pit stops, Hamilton might have been much closer to the leaders and perhaps been able to challenge for higher steps on the podium, but that's just a maybe.

 

[TopGearFTW]

In both cases you've still got to be there to take advantage of the misfortunes or bizarre occurances.

I just posted a video about the 2000 German Grand Prix in the OMG/WTF thread. No way in hell would Barrichello have won that race had the safety car not come out after the track invasion but it did happen, and ultimately Rubens made the most of it. The whole field was bunched up and when the heavens opened he took a gamble to stay out and managed to maintain the gap. Same with Kovelainen, same with Perez. Both took their chances and were ultimately in the right place at the right time. Whether they'll repeat it is a matter for another race.

I agree with you, and I would've liked to see Kovalainen do well, I'm just saying there's a slight difference between being gifted a win due to breakdowns, and managing to keep your car at the top of the field in unpredictable weather (not to mention the '08 McLaren was the fastest car that year, the Sauber this year isn't the fastest)

I'm not hating on Kovalainen, I'm just saying the two situations aren't really comparable.

I watched that video of Barrichello, I think I can just about remember that race. Hockenheim used to be such a great track. Was that the year the Mercedes employee broke in?

 

[superbike81]

The reason I compared the two is because if it wasn't for other teams making mistakes (a blown engine could be considered a mistake) combined with crazy weather Perez would have never been in the position he was in, so in some sense he was "gifted" his position. Now once he got there, he proved that he belonged there by showing that he had the pace to be there. But he also proved that he doesn't have the experience to remain up there just yet, evidenced by the mistake he made when he got close enough to Alonso to fight for position.

This is Perez's first taste, and I think he has proven that he has the potential to be a front runner, but for this season, due to both his inexperience and not being in a particularly good car, I don't think he'll be in this position again.

 

[Liquid]

As I wrote a few posts up, Perez made the most of the conditions around him and drove better than those who ended up behind him. As an independent, stand alone not-compared-with-other-races drive, it was marvellous.

He's got the potential to be a front runner. He's got seemingly immaculate tyre wear control and some flashes of raw pace here and there. He and Kobayashi make for an exciting Sauber line up. That midfield of Sauber/Williams/Torro Rosso/Force India is going to be very interesting indeed. Even the odd Ferrari scalp if they fall backwards.

 

[superbike81]

Mostly I'm pissed for Button, because he's the one I am cheering for, even though I'm cheering for Ferrari as a team. Button made the mistake, but like I said before, Karth shouldn't even have been trying to race him in the first place.

Anyways, it was a fun race to watch with lots of excitement, and someone brand new to the podium. I enjoyed watching it overall, just not happy with Button's circumstances.

I look forward to three weeks from now when we can all start arguing F1 again, it's fun! See you all in a few weeks!

 

[Cano]

It's a bit sad that I didin't get to see Checo in his greatest race yet. I hope he is finally able to show his true potential. Over here at the magazine we've been following him since his early days in crappy open-wheel cars here in Mexico, and his talent was obvious. I do hope that he is able to cope with the Sauber in such a good way as today and show what he can do, even with a subpar car. I know it's not a bad car, but it's not a Red Bull either.

Also, a lot more people in this country will from here on wake up early to watch the races. I should join.

 

[Peter.]

What a race!

Alonso! Perez!! Senna! Drives of the day. Ferrari may be struggling, but Alonso leads the championship for the first time since 2010. Perez may have lucked a bit into the situation, but he drove a fantastic race, and he had such incredible pace. Senna, after losing his front wing on lap 1, storms through the field to take 6th.

Good job for HRT on qualifying, and being fairly on the pace, too. Got tangled with Vettel and Button, but not of their own fault.

Felipe, Perez is faster than you.

 

[niky]

It's funny how I get called out by almost everyone for blaming Karth for the Vettel incident immediately after it happened but now 5 pages later people are like "oh well yeah I guess he did move."

He was penalized by race officials who have access to much more video footage than we do, so I think it's pretty clear.

It's hard to judge from race video. But after reviewing it, while it does seem he moved a bit to get back onto the line, he didn't intentionally cause a collision. Vettel stilll performed more lateral movement to get to that point. It's a racing incident, at best. Most likely the stewards slapped him with that penalty to remind backmarkers to stay as clear as possible when being passed.

It's one of those borderline calls (again, like Vettel on Webber in Turkey), and Narain was simply unlucky this time.

 

[hornet_burnout]

From axisofoversteer:

Narain Karthikayan: He would be a moving chicane even in a Mclaren
Sebastian Vettel: You know he's a chicane, how can you hit him?

 

[Prince.M5]

I was wet, not happy at all. But why was I happy even until today? The thrilling race!

I really didn't expect Alonso to win because he was well behind in qualifying. I tipped Button for another win while Schumacher having a strong podium finish. All went the other way around. The Alonso-Perez battle was purely awesome! In the race, clearly Perez was faster than Alonso but that mistake by Perez costed him dearly and his maiden win. Nothing can be taken away from Alonso after all the speculations and doubts but boy oh boy, a lot of dissapointment from this weekend for most drivers mostly Vettel for finishing down in 11th.

So, the cucumber of the day is Karthikeyan as Vettel refers him to.

A very, very exciting and enjoyable weekend. Lots of awesome experience especially being able to be at the pitlane. More pictures to be uploaded for the Sunday race and the album will be posted here!

 

[Peter.]

From axisofoversteer:

Narain Karthikayan: He would be a moving chicane even in a Mclaren
Sebastian Vettel: You know he's a chicane, how can you hit him?

Karthikeyan had the right to defend against Button, as it was a battle for position, and Button positioned his car poorly, thinking Narain would yield easily.

As for Vettel, Narain wasn't perfect, but Vettel clearly turned back onto the driving line much too early.

 

[superbike81]

Karth doesn't have to right to fight for any position besides 20th or worse. He doesn't belong in F1 and he has really shown that. No one would even be talking about him if he hadn't have inadvertently taken out Button and Vettel. This is the only way he can even get any press.

 

[hornet_burnout]

I guess I'm not a Vettel lover... Maybe that justifies my splitting the blame on that one?

But I am not blind, and despite a Button fan, this one was all Button.

Not saying Karth is worthy of F1... Just that it wasn't like he deliberately or recklessly punted them out.

 

[niky]

Karth doesn't have to right to fight for any position besides 20th or worse. He doesn't belong in F1 and he has really shown that. No one would even be talking about him if he hadn't have inadvertently taken out Button and Vettel. This is the only way he can even get any press.

Again, how did Narain "take out Button"?

 

[Blaze_409]

Karthikeyan had the right to defend against Button, as it was a battle for position, and Button positioned his car poorly, thinking Narain would yield easily.

Could we clear this up. Button said he locked the rear tires braking too deep. He wasnt taking the HRT for granted. He just messed up braking and speared into Karthikeyan. Nothing about Button underestimating the HRT.

 

[hornet_burnout]

Yes, Button said he made a mistake (several actually throughout the race) and you can see he tries to go for a gap, messes up the braking and goes way wide into the HRT back.

 

[tribolik]

If Button practiced on GT5 he would be used to bad and slow AI and would probably have made it through

 

[hornet_burnout]

^and Vettel, heavily involved in GT5, was expecting "Bob" to lift! You nailed! People should play more GT5

 

[Prince.M5]

Karth doesn't have to right to fight for any position besides 20th or worse. He doesn't belong in F1 and he has really shown that. No one would even be talking about him if he hadn't have inadvertently taken out Button and Vettel. This is the only way he can even get any press.

I'm a fan of Button but even after watching the race all over again, I found that Button was guilty in that one. Maybe he got confused because 1 out of 100 time he was lapping that HRT instead of racing it but yesterday, he was racing. Perhaps in other case he was too optimistic for the move. The HRT clearly ran wide but Button attacked the inside from far away.

Not Karthikeyan's fault, but mostly Button's.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Glad to have waited to watch that race.

How 'bout that Owen Wilson...what a jackass

Incredible drive from Alonso and Perez. I thought that Perez would end up in 1st no doubt when he got into the DRS zone the next time by.

Also happy for Hamilton. He probably wanted to go higher, but as they said his main competition didn't do so well.

Another terrible race day for Grosjean. Balls of steel for Vergne.


Hopefully three weeks is enough for Ferrari to scrap together something decent. They should give Massa the old car.

 

[superbike81]

Not saying Button wasn't at fault. Saying Karth shouldn't have been on the track in the first place. He is an accident magnet who is too slow to be on the track. He needs to replaced with someone who has the talent to be in F1.

 

[Seismica]

Not saying Button wasn't at fault. Saying Karth shouldn't have been on the track in the first place. He is an accident magnet who is too slow to be on the track. He needs to replaced with someone who has the talent to be in F1.

He's in a HRT... Anybody in a HRT is going to be just as bad.

Bruno Senna was in a HRT in 2010 and in Malaysia he finished in the points with a solid performance, just because of the car.

Before you say "Well we should ban cars that slow", they have by re-implementing the 107% rule.

You can't single out Karthikeyan, Button made a mistake and ran into the back of him. With Vettel the problem was that Narain had ran wide and was on the kerb/white line so he had to move over sooner, not realising how close Vettel was. Whilst Vettel did give room, he did not account for the wet conditions. It was a racing incident which could well have led to Narain losing a front wing and Vettel getting away scott free.

I can guarantee you that given a half decent car and a decent simulator to practice in, Narain wouldn't be a rolling chicane.

-

I watched the highlights for this race on iplayer earlier and in the closing 20 laps or so I had butterflies in my stomach, I was watching one of the youngest drivers in the sport about to pull off one of the biggest upsets in recent years. Perez is one to watch, which was evident from Australia last year. I saw a qualifying lap of him last year at Singapore and it was absolutely perfect, also his style is smoother than Button's. Still I refused to acknowledge his ability because Kobayashi still remains one of my favourites but damn... after today I can't deny it anymore, Perez is right up there with Vettel, Alonso etc. It's time for you to move aside Felipe, give this young gun a chance. If it hadn't been for that one little mistake...

 

[FrontalSystem]

In my opinion, without a doubt, Perez's engineering cost him the race. The commentators really did sum it up well, immediately sighing.

Really a shame because it's quite obvious that as soon as you are forced to alter your driving style, you loose your rhythm, which lead to him making that mistake.

 

[niky]

He needs to replaced with someone who has the talent to be in F1.

Felipe Massa?

 

[F1 fan]

snip

My animosity isn't towards Lewis Hamilton fans. Rather, Lewis Hamilton fans who deride others for making mistakes that Lewis is also guilty of. I don't hate Lewis Hamilton fans. One of my best friends is one. But you talk about double standards then rip someone to shreds for something that Lewis has done.

And as for trying to take the high ground with the "don't get offended, I'm just a faceless person on the internet to you", perhaps you should take your own advice to. Last week, a simple joke about you mis spelling BMW led you to countless posts so you could "prove you were right" despite the fact that I and at least two others had tried pointing out to you that it was a joke.

Yes. Watching these guys on Speed now (replay) battle it out in Malaysia. Even knowing the results already, I'm on the edge of my seat. Must have been an awesome race live.

It was. I was firmly on the edge of my seat. I think the last time I was on the edge of my seat like that was Abu Dhabi 2010, when things started falling into place.

 

[dudedo]

How 'bout that Owen Wilson...what a jackass

So true, I think they shouldn't let stupid celebrities like him onto the grid. I mean, I understand someone who is an employee of a racing team refusing an interview because they are busy with a car, but Mr. Wilson was just a real 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 cucumber.

But Perez did a great job. I'm so glad he's in the Ferrari Young Driver Program, because I think he will replace Felipe Massa by next year hopefully, but i think they'll keep Massa for the rest of the season.

 

[Peter.]

Within 24 hours of the race, rumors are already popping up about Massa being replaced, but not by who you would have expected.

Of course, this rumor is nothing but Italian Media getting frustrated with Ferrari's failure at the hands of Massa, and with a bit of anger left over from Trulli's sudden departure from Caterham.

 

[F1 fan]

Those rumours were floating around after Australia. Just wishful thinking from the Italian media.

 

[thechosenwonton]

Fantastic race, I thought Perez was gonna have it there towards the end, where did Sauber find that much pace? It was telling in qualifying though... so many cars in the top ten, within tenths of a second.

This is going to be a great season. I wonder... if Kimi had not got a 5 spot grid penalty, would he have won? Great to see so many teams with pace and the ability to win, for sure.

 

[niky]

Without the five place penalty and barring any bad luck like the rest of the top runners, he might have been 3rd.

But the past two races have been big "what-ifs" for almost everyone. It's Kimi's job now to turn another potential "what-if" in China into a "This-is-it!"