2013 UBS Chinese Grand Prix

[Saidur_Ali]

It is getting rather silly when you have drivers asking if they can race the guy in front or not. Most of the passes today weren't even fought, the driver being passed didn't bother because of, you guessed it, his tyres. As said above all of the drivers were just driving to their own schedule and if another car came up in that schedule they had to ask if they were allowed to fight them. Silly.

Well we already got that last race in a way and drivers probably asked that question themselves, Lewis probably thought about that in his last stint. Amazing to see that he never bothered Kimi. We now have drivers asking, what lap time they have to do, number of laps needed before pitting, whether they can overtake or not, whether to race other drivers, and drivers at end of race sounding like all they done is drive around by themselves all race long.

I am surprised people are finding this exciting. This kind of 'racing' is so strange to see as it is like some kind of extreme endurance racing style, quite surreal to see. This race I had to question myself, what am I watching .

The DRS zones were too long, which didn't help. The overtaking was a given, I don't recall seeing a failed DRS-assisted overtake attempt.

DRS was OK, problem is drivers are unlikely to fight each other for position if on different strategy of if car getting past is slightly better on tyres. Vettel couldn't get past Hulkenburg using DRS IIRC.

 

[HKS racer]

Vettel couldn't get past Hulkenburg using DRS IIRC.

Vettel couldn't get past Hulkenberg because of RedBull's top speed.

 

[Beerz]

Tough.

 

[daan]

With these tyres, we don't need DRS.

With the Bridgestone's DRS would have been a good idea, but with Pirelli doing what the FIA asked and giving tyres that don't last, DRS isn't needed. They've done 2 things to provide more overtaking when only 1 was required.

 

[United6694]

Bring back refueling

 

[priesty_lfc]

Bring back refueling

This!

None of the fuel saving they do at the moment, re furlong would add another tactical element to the GP but should also mean running as fast as they can more often.

 

[HKS racer]

Even if most of the overtakes were DRS related I found the race exiting. Fernando after the first stop came back 11th and I was swearing about the tyres, I wasn't expecting all those overtakes. From there, we've seen the difference between Alonso and Massa. Alonso always try to be as close as possible to his opponents, taking more risks and overtaking asap.
Instead Massa is more conservative when fighting for position, he was stuck behind Di Resta which is kind of embarassing if we consider the potential of the car. I suspect Massa give the 100& only when battling against Alo and Ham...

 

[United6694]

Why was refueling banned?

 

[Anghammarad]

Alonso will win, comfortably.


Oh, wait...

 

[SkengD]

Why was refueling banned?

cost saving

Hulkenburg needs a good car he is the top talent out there imo

 

[jpressley101]

cost saving

Could it also have been to eliminate fueling fires?

 

[Samus]

Why was refueling banned?

For safety and because it was pointless. If the cars can be made big enough (but still a reasonable size) to hold a fuel tank big enough for the whole race why wouldn't you?

The problem with F1 now is that it's all down to strategy and adding refueling again would only compound the issue. You'd go back to having cars starting light, running away from the heavier cars and vice versa. With all cars being on *roughly* the same amount of fuel that eliminates that issue.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

Also, i think there were a few occasions where there were mixups in the pits which lead to drivers driving off with the fuel hose still on the car...think the last time that happened was Massa in Singapore in 2010?

 

[Samus]

Not to mention races ruined because of hose failures. If you can avoid all of those negatives it makes sense to do so.

 

[Robin]

Bring back refueling

I was watching the race thinking about this, I really wish they would bring it back. By the end of its use it had become pretty safe (we haven't seen massive fires for decades). Massa took half the rig down the pitlane in Singapore and everything was ok.

The problem with F1 now is that it's all down to strategy and adding refueling again would only compound the issue. You'd go back to having cars starting light, running away from the heavier cars and vice versa. With all cars being on *roughly* the same amount of fuel that eliminates that issue.

They could force them to all start with a full tank that's just smaller so they have to refuel a few times in the race.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Refueling was one of Bernie's pathetic idea's to inject some excitement into the races.

He forgot that since pitlane speed limits where introduced, it was no longer a case of cars hammering into the pits at race speed, slamming the brakes on and getting fuel shoved in so fast that you had to vent to fuel tank or the car would explode, which is what refueling meant back in the 80's before it was banned.

Since when is it needed when F1 already has joke tyres and DRS?

Answer. It isn't. Either get proper tyres and keep DRS or get rid of DRS and keep the joke tyres. One or the other is all that is needed.

 

[Samus]

I was watching the race thinking about this, I really wish they would bring it back. By the end of its use it had become pretty safe (we haven't seen massive fires for decades). Massa took half the rig down the pitlane in Singapore and everything was ok.



They could force them to all start with a full tank that's just smaller so they have to refuel a few times in the race.

Why? What could that add except potential danger and problems out of the teams control.

 

[Robin]

Why? What could that add except potential danger and problems out of the teams control.

There have been lot of exciting racing created by refuelling, before DRS, KERS and the comedy tires it added something to what was a mostly processional era (especially when Ferrari was winning everything).

For that matter they should give them tires that last the whole race to take the danger out of the wheels falling off or having wheel gun issues and injuries (which has been happening a lot lately).

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I would prefer no refuelling with tyres as good as Bridgestones and DRS and KERS retained. China 2010 IMO was many times more exciting than this race with a lot of competitive overtaking and drivers defending and also attacking without the same fear regarding tyres.

 

[Samus]

There have been lot of exciting racing created by refuelling, before DRS, KERS and the comedy tires it added something to what was a mostly processional era (especially when Ferrari was winning everything).

For that matter they should give them tires that last the whole race to take the danger out of the wheels falling off or having wheel gun issues and injuries (which has been happening a lot lately).

By out of their control I was referring to the fuel rigs. When a wheel falls off or a gun fails it is down to the team and their equipment. When the refuelling rigs failed in various ways it was nothing to do with them, it wasn't their equipment and it was just annoying, not exciting.

 

[Robin]

By out of their control I was referring to the fuel rigs. When a wheel falls off or a gun fails it is down to the team and their equipment. When the refuelling rigs failed in various ways it was nothing to do with them, it wasn't their equipment and it was just annoying, not exciting.

There have been faulty ones but most of the incidents involving the fuelling rigs have been due to improper or accidental use by the team, usually by them not plugging it in or pulling it out properly.

I have to say seeing them rush to get the fuel in and having the risks of cars running out at any point in the race rather than just at the end I found quite exciting.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

Quick take:

Champion's drive from Alonso; made the most of all his overtaking opportunities with or without DRS, every time slotting the car through with authority. Kudos too to Pat Fry, who appears to have Ferrari on the right technological track. Massa, unfortunately, was back to first-half 2012 form. He should have been on the podium, not Hamilton.

Kimi a bit uncharacteristically took a risk he shouldn't have by trying to go around the outside of Perez there. Perez had been weaving, but he was a bit steadier when Raikkonen made his move and it's hard to put it all on him for that one. Then again, Kimi does love the outside move, eh?

Full blame to Webber for his clash with Verge. He admitted thinking Vergne was going to give him the spot, which was/is daft. The Toro Rosso boys at this point are racing for Webber's job; neither is going to give him a thing on the track.

Vettel drove well but the RB just didn't have the pace. Seems strange to say, and probably won't last, but there it is.

Good drives also from DiResta and Hulkenberg, the difference in showing being primary down to their machinery.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I see no one is giving credit to the great drive Riccardo gave, bravo. Also good job by all three podium finishers, Alonso was just amazing fast, couldn't be touched. And good finish for McLaren they may be a threat come Spain, but if I remember correctly they're banking on that timeline already so... I think Mercedes will also become stronger too, I hope both do because right now I think the real fight is Lotus and Ferrari, with Merc and RBR fighting to be the number three or even number two car.

 

[Wardez]

Niki Lauda says Pirelli's going to change their compounds starting from Spain, they, "have a plan."

www.f1plus.com/en/news/item/3511-pirelli-has-a-plan-for-barcelona-lauda

Could be as simple as moving the compounds over one in naming. They could re-name the current Softs, Supersofts, then go down the line, i.e. Mediums will then be Softs. etc.
Then make a new Hard tire.

That would bring things back to 2012 grip levels, but with the new construction with a more even temperature spread, they'll be much better. Hopefully they don't just default to Hards as primes for most of the last half of the season like last year and make the racing too predictable.

 

[niky]

Alonso will win, comfortably.


Oh, wait...

-

Refueling? No.

I don't see it as any better than having tires that don't last all race. Personally, I'd rather see teams get a free choice of compounds to run on during the race, and everyone, all the way down, must start on the compound they qualified on or did their last qualification run on (eliminating "no shows" in Q2 and Q3)... this opens up even more qualifying / race strategies.

Hope to see DRS gone when they bring the turbo engines. With turbos, you can use "push-to-pass" boost and enrichment settings, which, combined with KERS and the need to conserve fuel, should make things even more interesting.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

-

Refueling? No.

I don't see it as any better than having tires that don't last all race. Personally, I'd rather see teams get a free choice of compounds to run on during the race, and everyone, all the way down, must start on the compound they qualified on or did their last qualification run on (eliminating "no shows" in Q2 and Q3)... this opens up even more qualifying / race strategies.

Hope to see DRS gone when they bring the turbo engines. With turbos, you can use "push-to-pass" boost and enrichment settings, which, combined with KERS and the need to conserve fuel, should make things even more interesting.

THIS a billion times over, Niky for FIA Pres *starts the campaign trail*

Seriously, at first I was fine with DRS but then after these three races especially Malaysia and China or the actual race circuits, the passes especially on fresh tyres just aren't worth fighting if on old tires. The fact that people have to ask their teams to fight others like Button asking McLaren if he could race the Merc GP of Hamilton. Shows just how stupid the tire situation is becoming, yes teams must figure it out, but if it takes all season long and they're only doing this just to keep the championship close by a handful of points like we saw in 2010 and 2012.

The 80s boost sytem along with KERS and ERS would be awesome once again. Also why not allow any tire choice wanted for the race picked by teams, and just have a defualt of rain tires and inters for a chance of wet conditions.

 

[Wardez]

Pirelli already brings 968 dry tires to each race (more than half of them are primes), plus the 440 wet tires. So you're talking about bringing twice as many than the first number, plus the wets, to each race just so everyone up front ends up using the same strategy anyway. Another option is having teams pick their own tires in advanced, but then it's almost a crapshoot picking blind without testing.

In the end that's too expensive and would just make things more chaotic.

They should've for hard primes and medium options in China anyway.

DRS didn't affect the racing that much honestly. It just hurried up the inevitable. Yeah Alonso and Massa got around Lewis early on using it but just look at how fast their car was anyway, without DRS Alonso would've gotten around him easily still, no extra bravado needed.

All the other passes were due to different tire situations amongst the field. It's still the tires making things too artificial. I'm thinking them hardening the compound up a little will settles things right back down.

But at the same time, that will play into RB's hands, and they could easily run away with 2013 as a result.

 

[niky]

The idea is that they get the same choice and tire allocation from Pirelli as they do now, then choose themselves how many of each tire to use during the race. The brings a little more strategy to the table than S-H-H, S-H-S or the qualifying sacrifice H-H-S. Someone running a H-H or a S-S-S strategy would really shake up the order.

 

[Jimlaad43]

The idea is that they get the same choice and tire allocation from Pirelli as they do now, then choose themselves how many of each tire to use during the race. The brings a little more strategy to the table than S-H-H, S-H-S or the qualifying sacrifice H-H-S. Someone running a H-H or a S-S-S strategy would really shake up the order.

They cant do H-H or S-S-S as they have to use both H and S in a race.

 

[Wardez]

@jimlaad
He knows that, what he's proposing is getting rid of that rule.

Ah, you didn't make that clear in your first post about it.

That wouldn't work because most teams would end up using the same strategy, of course by using the option tires the whole race will always be fastest.