2013 UBS Chinese Grand Prix

[Samus]

Well look at this for example: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns25188.html

and I don't think even FIA would have intended tyres to have such problems like delamination, a lot of marbles due to tyre pieces flying off a lot and all while drivers going at a very slow pace. From what I understand, they wanted more stops although I don't know the point of having more stops, I want more wheel to wheel racing on track than having multiple undercuts or free passes. KERS and DRS with tyres that you can race with should provide that.

I do agree with you but Isn't La Gazzetta dello Sport basically a sports only tabloid? I wouldn't get your hopes up that there is any truth in that.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I do agree with you but Isn't La Gazzetta dello Sport basically a sports only tabloid? I wouldn't get your hopes up that there is any truth in that.

That was just something recent to link but it is known that this is the situation: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105750

I am hoping Michelin are in talks with FIA regarding F1, they have got Formula E contract now.

 

[Samus]

I have no problem with Pirelli, the issue is the tyres they are producing. Obviously they're perfectly capable of making more durable rubber. It'd be no good getting Michelin back if they were told "Make your rubber just like the Pirelli's" by the FIA.

I'm glad more and more drivers are speaking up about it though, hopefully some action is taken soon.

 

[KinLM]

I miss good old Bridgestone. They made similar tires for when these cars first switched back to full slicks, and they were far better than Pirelli's next year.

Not that it's all down to the manufacturer of the tires. Whoever it is in the FIA that's asking for the tires to be this soft and act like this needs to be chunked off a cliff. Total ignorance of good judgement when it's obvious that SOMETHING needs to be done.

It's making Pirelli look bad (even though it isn't really Pirelli's fault) it's ruining qualifying (which the fans still pay good money to see) and it's causing anger among the drivers now.

EDIT: 100 to go.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I have no problem with Pirelli, the issue is the tyres they are producing. Obviously they're perfectly capable of making more durable rubber. It'd be no good getting Michelin back if they were told "Make your rubber just like the Pirelli's" by the FIA.

I'm glad more and more drivers are speaking up about it though, hopefully some action is taken soon.

I wouldn't mind if Pirelli stayed and did the opposite approach to tyres but I think it is unlikely. I think they would be set in their thermal degrading ways too, it should have been possible to make a tyre that did multiple stops and not be as bad the ones currently raced.

More drivers speaking about these in same manner, the better it will be for FIA to take notice 👍.

 

[KinLM]

I wouldn't mind if Pirelli stayed and did the opposite approach to tyres but I think it is unlikely. I think they would be set in their thermal degrading ways too, it should have been possible to make a tyre that did [b{multiple stops[/b] and not be as bad the ones currently raced.

More drivers speaking about these in same manner, the better 👍.

Multiple stops?

The only reason they stop anymore is for the tires, so I don't see how they could have tires which last multiple stops since that's the only reason they're pitting.

But I'm seeing your point. They need tires that can really last. <10 laps on a set of tires shouldn't happen.

 

[Nessy]

I have no problem with Pirelli, the issue is the tyres they are producing. Obviously they're perfectly capable of making more durable rubber. It'd be no good getting Michelin back if they were told "Make your rubber just like the Pirelli's" by the FIA.

I'm glad more and more drivers are speaking up about it though, hopefully some action is taken soon.

This ^. 👍

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Multiple stops?

The only reason they stop anymore is for the tires, so I don't see how they could have tires which last multiple stops since that's the only reason they're pitting.

But I'm seeing your point. They need tires that can really last. <10 laps on a set of tires shouldn't happen.

What I meant was like current tyres are designed to force multiple stops, I think it should be possible to make tyres much better than they currently are that do multiple stops. Comments made by Paul Hembery and current tyre situation makes me prefer another tyre manufacturer to takeover.

 

[KinLM]

What I meant was like current tyres are designed to force multiple stops, I think it should be possible to make tyres much better than they currently are.

Oh yes I totally agree. If nothing else, they need to start bringing the hard compounds to EVERY RACE.

The soft and super soft tires are obviously not fit for any track, this is just ruining the racing now. We need all of the tires to be going at least 20 laps the way I see it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Oh yes I totally agree. If nothing else, they need to start bringing the hard compounds to EVERY RACE.

The soft and super soft tires are obviously not fit for any track, this is just ruining the racing now. We need all of the tires to be going at least 20 laps the way I see it.

Pirelli seem to fear one stop races and think they would be boring races. I like 'boring' races like last years US Grand Prix.

 

[KinLM]

Pirelli seem to fear one stop races and think they would be boring races. I like 'boring' races like last years US Grand Prix.

I believe it's partly down to the FIA as well, but yes I agree.

I can understand why they'd want multiple stops. But when the drivers are scared to even qualify, things have gone too far.

 

[Wardez]

What would make me happy is just adding an extra set of option tires in Q3 and then go back to last year's slightly harder compounds, but just apply this year's more even wear distribution so they don't have the "cliff dive" that would annoy the hell out of everyone. The only problem with them last year was that the teams took the first half of the season to figure out the operating temperatures, after that things were a lot more tidy and scrappy.

 

[Samus]

Also there is a difference between pitting because the tyres are falling to pieces and losing you 10 seconds a lap or pitting because the tyres are just gradually losing grip and a new set would be advantageous.

Drivers are going at 60% of what they can do, all because of the tyres.

 

[Wardez]

Full load of fuel on worn options at the start vs sticker options with low fuel in the last 10 laps =Vettel/Button 1-2 finish.

I hope it rains...

Softs suck!

Pirelli tyres making Formula 1 'a bit like wrestling' says Webber
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106731

Webber also reckoned that the tyres were so sensitive that there was little chance of actually being able to race with them, even if the soft tyre was used for the final stint when cars had less fuel on board.

"[Adrian] Sutil tried that in Melbourne and Pirelli said that there were indications that the race fell apart for him because he tried to race people," he said.

"Whatever fuel load you have got in the car, if you race people, you are in trouble. So just don't race, put the tyre on and just try and get home."

I hope the guys on Softs can trulli train the Medium starters for a fighting change at grabbing their own after more than 10 laps!

 

[Nessy]

Isn't having tyres that delaminate actually quite dangerous? (not that F1 isn't dangerous ). Maybe they'll do something about them on safety grounds.

 

[Samus]

The article on F1.com says it all really

Qualifying analysis - strategy set to overcome speed?

Qualifying in China was a mixed bag, as so many drivers were intent on saving their fragile soft-compound Pirelli tyres. Thus, particularly in Q3, each did only one lap, and two opted to run on the mediums instead. The race will clearly be all about the postponement of tyre degradation, and the individual strategies that teams apply. We take a team-by-team look at the Saturday form book…

F1 no longer about speed.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I hope the guys on Softs can trulli train the Medium starters for a fighting change at grabbing their own after more than 10 laps!

Seriously, have you seen anyone successfully defend their position from someone with better tyres in the Pirelli era?

 

[Samus]

The problem is the gap between them is usually too big, as will be the case tomorrow. It'll be candy from a baby and that isn't racing.

This is what Button said:

"But the positive out of this is that there are going to be seven cars tomorrow with grained tyres that aren't going to last very long, and you will have guys on pretty much brand new primes fighting their way through

So yeah positive for him and Vettel but not for the spectacle, those passes are going to be so easy.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Going back to qualifying, it was good to see Lewis keep up his record of getting at least a pole position in every season he has been in F1. Also I wonder if teams further behind would appeal Nico Rosberg and also Fernando Alonso's qualifying lap as from what I saw Nico went clean off the track boundaries on last corner and Fernando seemed borderline. I wonder if there were other people went off track on their fastest lap, I am interpreting it as the inner white lines as boundary. I guess it could be seen as a bit petty but a big advantage could be gained.

 

[GTPskills]

Tyre deg looks extremely bad, they are going to struggle, expect some early first pit stops.

PS: LEWIS, LEWIS,LEWIS!!!!

 

[BanditKarter22]

Going back to qualifying, it was good to see Lewis keep up his record of getting at least a pole position in every season he has been in F1. Also I wonder if teams further behind would appeal Nico Rosberg and also Fernando Alonso's qualifying lap as from what I saw Nico went clean off the track boundaries on last corner and Fernando seemed borderline. I wonder if there were other people went off track on their fastest lap, I am interpreting it as the inner white lines as boundary. I guess it could be seen as a bit petty but a big advantage could be gained.

Nico didn't gain time by going wide as he was on the AstroTurf and lost traction out of the corner so no problem there.

 

[Samus]

Tyre deg looks extremely bad, they are going to struggle, expect some early first pit stops.

PS: LEWIS, LEWIS,LEWIS!!!!

Lewis Lewis Lewis is going to go backwards backwards backwards thanks to your first sentence. Vettel honestly looks favourite and on reflection you have to wonder why no other potential winners went that route except him and Button. They said Webber was going to be on the same strategy until the fuel issue.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Nico didn't gain time by going wide as he was on the AstroTurf and lost traction out of the corner so no problem there.

It was most likely his fastest last sector though, don't want to see him get a penalty but given how strict they can be on some other rules, I wonder why they seem to be so lenient on track boundaries.

Lewis Lewis Lewis is going to go backwards backwards backwards thanks to your first sentence. Vettel honestly looks favourite and on reflection you have to wonder why no other potential winners went that route except him and Button. They said Webber was going to be on the same strategy until the fuel issue.

I think the reason being Red Bull not having the speed to beat the likes of Mercedes today. Otherwise they most likely would have gone down the same route as the people at the front.

 

[SilverArrow]

Lewis Lewis Lewis is going to go backwards backwards backwards thanks to your first sentence. Vettel honestly looks favourite and on reflection you have to wonder why no other potential winners went that route except him and Button. They said Webber was going to be on the same strategy until the fuel issue.

No other front runner picked that strategy because everyone in the top 5 was in contention for pole, if Red Bull felt the need to use the same strategy as midfield McLaren Mercedes then they clearly felt they weren't fast enough. Who knows, there could be an early safety car that gives the leaders the opportunity to get straight onto the primes. Also if the tyres shred themselves to pieces as quickly as you claim then Button and Vettel will suffer the same fate as Raikkonen last year at the end of the race.

 

[Akmuq]

I prefer last year when the tyres either overheated or wouldn't heat at all, and graining beats wearing.👍

 

[BHRxRacer]

Because by holding the Bahrain Grand Prix it is argued that F1 and Ecclestone are supporting the Bahraini rulers whilst they persecute people basically, so F1 is seen to be supporting a country oppressing its people.

It is argued by..? Let me guess. People who have never been here, right? Or is it the corrupt media that for some reason everybody starting believing when they attacked Bahrain?

What if I told you, the only reason those terrorists that have been causing trouble since 1994, aren't all behind bars or hit back by the police solely because of the grand prix? If the crown prince didn't worry too much having the race canceled, the government would've hit back strong against them and probably killed a lot more of these sectarian idiots. By a lot more, by the way, means more than the 6 that have been killed in the past 2 years. Not 100+ like they try to say


Let's not discuss Bahrain now, leave it until next week's thread.

So they can dust them down for fingerprints.

It was most likely his fastest last sector though, don't want to see him get a penalty but given how strict they can be on some other rules, I wonder why they seem to be so lenient on track boundaries.

Going off there without lifting would spin you out in a heartbeat. He lost at least two tenths because of that.

Anyway, going to be interesting to see what happens in the first 15 laps of the race tomorrow. That was the most boring qualifying I've seen in a while. Besides the teams not doing any running, the sad parts are; Webber getting screwed, Rosberg not getting a chance to set up the car for qualifying in FP3 and Massa missing out on outqualifying Alonso for the 5th time in a row.

Anyone else thinks Bottas, Chilton and Gutierrez should leave F1 immediately? I'd rather have Brunno Senna at this point or even Petrov.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Going off there without lifting would spin you out in a heartbeat. He lost at least two tenths because of that.

He most likely had a small lift, and cost him most likely second place. Still though it was the fastest he has done that sector. More interesting to see is Fernando's last sector, he is borderline having one wheel on white line or not. He did also get the fastest last sector.


About race, apart from tyre situation regarding race, I am particularly interested to see how top speeds of cars will affect race. Daniel might have a chance to do rather well. Sebastian and Jenson do have slow top speeds so I wonder how that will work for them. I think the strategy they are on would help them a lot though as traffic would seem costly for them. Last year I remember Sebastian saying they were no where on the straights. It will probably be crucial for Sebastian to get past Jenson to have a chance of fighting for victory as he most likely has a faster race car.

 

[Seismica]

He most likely had a small lift, and cost him most likely second place. Still though it was the fastest he has done that sector.

It was the fastest he had done the sector because Nico never did a low fuel soft tyre run in practice.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

It was the fastest he had done the sector because Nico never did a low fuel soft tyre run in practice.

It was his best sector as only Q3 did they really start pushing. Otherwise Q2 he would have been quicker.

 

[Yukon]

I agree about the tyres. They're chewing themselves up far too fast.

Didn't Jensen Button say on friday that they can put out 1:35 lap times until they reach the eighth lap, then they drop down to 1:48 lap times, which makes them slower than GP2 cars. I'm sure he referred to it as strange. I don't like what they've done this year. A suggestion would be to allow the teams one extra set of softs or mediums that are purely for Qualifying, so they can set atleast more than one flying lap.

I'm happy that Hamilton has made another pole position, but it'll be short lived when it comes to tyre strategy. 👎