2014 F1 Mechanics/Aero; Design predictions to win the WCC/WDC. READ FIRST POST

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Jeez @LMSCorvetteGT2, what gives? I know what the thread is for and thought I would contribute. I even apologised, which instead seems to have given your anger towards me a new lease of life?

I don't have an anger toward you and no one said you cant contribute, don't try to rationalize it as some knee jerk emotion, you've said things in your last post directly quoting me and others or just general post that aren't correct. Thus obviously I or others are going to correct you, if you don't like being corrected or given an alternative view point then I'm not sure what to tell you. It is a forum and others are going to speak against you, if that results in you taking it personally then why participate.

You want to talk 2014 design predictions, but when we have the very first car to mull over I am pointed to a thread which did not exist at the time (I presume you are already aware of the time difference between my post and the thread creation though, given that I also state my location as a clue). I asked a question (via an edit, to avoid double posting. Yep, I had time to read the AUP as well as everything you say or don't say) and I would like to thank @Azure Flare for the answer, which did not contain any personal attack at my apparent ignorance.

People are going to point you to a thread regardless, you can talk about it here but as the first post states and as you quoted below it goes beyond just a car release. Also there is hardly anything to talk about with a photo touched up single view that gives little to go on. Also where is the personal attack? Because I've yet again have something to disagree and further debate you on, this is some vendetta against you? No, if I agree with you I let you know, if I don't agree with you I let you know, it's the nature of a forum. I never made any personal attacks and if I did I'd implore you to show it since it's against AUP for I or anyone else to personally attack you, just as it's against the AUP to make claims that can't be substantiated with actual proof.

LMSCorvetteGT2 and everyone else if I was to discuss what changes Force India may make before Australia? Or what the remaining 9 cars may look like?

Without consideration to the actual designs.

No one is stopping you from making a prediction that is what the thread is about but yet again, if someone thinks otherwise, there is no reason why they can voice why they disagree with you or where you're possibly wrong. Quit taking things personally.

How so? It's kind of hard to look at it and talk about it when only one car has been shown, also I obviously gave consideration to the designs in the first post. The only reason I'm speaking out at you (in this moment) is because you speak in a context that would seem as if you didn't read the thread and make open statements that can easily be countered by post prior to yours.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

In answer to all of that, there is no offence taken to people wanting to point out issues or argue opinion, but you seem to be taking an already answered question and blowing it out of proportion completely, referencing me only, then claiming it isn't personal? I'm not as interested in launch threads because the talk stays less technical than I like. At that time of asking though, I was the only one discussing the Force India image and (had I seen Azure Flare's response sooner) would have started a thread on it to draw it to others attention. It is also possible to discuss the same thing in different threads at different angles.

Admittedly the image isn't a prediction. The news that Force India will be updating the package is not a prediction. What I had hoped for though was something like this:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112225
It is a link I posted about in the other thread as well as here, but in this thread I would expect people to make those predictions about what those potential updates could be. At first glance, I believed the nose was just the standard low nose the rules anticipated, but reading the above actually brought to my attention that it appears to be a hooked / finger shape (like the RB10 prediction that Craig Scarborough drew in the original post). So I now wonder what Force India consider to be more radical when it comes to their overhaul?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In answer to all of that, there is no offence taken to people wanting to point out issues or argue opinion, but you seem to be taking an already answered question and blowing it out of proportion completely, referencing me only, then claiming it isn't personal? I'm not as interested in launch threads because the talk stays less technical than I like. At that time of asking though, I was the only one discussing the Force India image and (had I seen Azure Flare's response sooner) would have started a thread on it to draw it to others attention. It is also possible to discuss the same thing in different threads at different angles.

I referred to you only because you brought it up, geez man talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. It's isn't personal, and I never told you to leave, I just informed you and Azure did it again that there will be individual threads on each car and don't be shocked if others don't want to get stuck on one car. Trust me PM and other F1 fanatics that get the jump on these type of things were in the process of making said threads, it's not shock as to why the first F1 car release thread was made by PM. Also the only reason you were discussing Force India is because unless you were scanning F1 sites you wouldn't know. FI never gave a release date and caught everyone by surprise so...

Admittedly the image isn't a prediction. The news that Force India will be updating the package is not a prediction. What I had hoped for though was something like this:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112225
It is a link I posted about in the other thread as well as here, but in this thread I would expect people to make those predictions about what those potential updates could be. At first glance, I believed the nose was just the standard low nose the rules anticipated, but reading the above actually brought to my attention that it appears to be a hooked / finger shape (like the RB10 prediction that Craig Scarborough drew in the original post). So I now wonder what Force India consider to be more radical when it comes to their overhaul?

I know what you hoped for but I don't fully agree with Scarbs due to FI doing what Caterham have done for the past two years, showing a single image of their car that is shopped or touched up to make it look wonderful before the test pictures start up. Also I already gave my bit on the new FI car in that thread. I'm sure as more people realize it has been released through the day they will talk more about it in the context you'd like, but since FI are usually one of the well know teams to emulate what others do and thus there really isn't much for me to talk about here.

They claim it will be more radical and it very well may, but I think this is an easier way of saying, they'll have a better solution when they've seen what others implement. So in reality you've gotten my prediction.

EDIT:
Anyways here is a better idea of what Scarbs is claiming to be the nose of the VMJ07

I think the pylons extend further along that front nose piece then shown here, but we'll have to wait and see, perhaps Scarbs has more insight

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

This is one of the few cars I was looking forward to based on the technical shake ups with their team over the end of last year and during the winter. It's more simplistic in looks than the potential RBR in the first post... I'll go further on in another post after others have time to talk about it. I had a feeling Williams would be next and before the first true launch (McLaren) and I was right I just wouldn't have guessed they would provide the catia rendering of the car rather than a shopped version like FI. Rest of the pictures are here https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/2014-william-fw36-oh-how-my-eyes-hurt.300303/

The pylons don't extend to far and are quite narrow, the nose extends out more so and this isn't the case on the FI image (so they might have a different solution). The wing end plates don't curve out to adjust the aero around the tires, yet again multi steps to it. The back end is still small and has tons of room, and more so this year due to the smaller fuel cell. There is no major noticble change in the ventilation for the KERS and ERS as seen with FI and even teams prior that is surely to be important. Also the side pods seem a bit smaller.

All in all there is probably more to be seen when it actually hits the track with test parts than these few catia images, though it's better than FI. Also McLaren will be the one to watch at this point and other following since they are full on releases and not teams just trying to one up each other with pictures.

I apologize for the double post

 

[Pezzarinho17]

The engine cover size intrigues me, the outward bulge behind the driver is not something expected by all teams with the new engines is it? The side image shows the 2013 tight coke bottle package remains also.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The engine cover size intrigues me, the outward bulge behind the driver is not something expected by all teams with the new engines is it? The side image shows the 2013 tight coke bottle package remains also.

Well Williams for the past 3-4 years have made it a priority to have a super small gearbox compared to everyone else, Ferrari went for a smaller rear last year following Williams. That is why you see a bulge and a massive coke bottle shape. As for other teams I'd say they'll look more like FI and only a few will have the Williams look at the rear especially toward the rear tires.

 

[Wardez]

I apologize for the double post

No need to apologize, that's not a double post in the bad sense. We discourage multi-posts which are separated by minutes. Double posts separated by something like 30 minutes to an hour are fine most of the time.

Anyway, yeah, first official team car renderings are out. One thing everyone has to keep in mind, especially now more than in the last few years, is that a lot of the components are going to end up being changed drastically from launch to the first race, and we'll probably even see substantial changes going from launches to the first test. It's just the nature of this dark game of billionaire poker the teams always sort of backhandedly play with each other in January.

So yeah, don't look too hard into these images. That being said, these initials showings could be revealing a bit of their design philosophy and approaches to different obstacles they've been faces with, so that is interesting to speculate on.

As LMS said, first thing I looked at was the front wing. Against most bets, they've gone for an inward deflection vs an outward one as most analysts were thinking they'd go for since the sidepods are allowed to be bigger, but it isn't the case. Williams are opting for a Sauber-ish approach in their profile and sticking to a tight package it seems. This is also evident in those crazy vanes inside the tires which manipulating the wash off the front wing. To me, that shows they aren't going to focus too much on the rear diffuser, at least early on.

And they're going for the small gearbox again, which didn't do them any favors last year:

Sidepod shape is interesting, quite roomy, smooth, much longer than before. I'm thinking the airbox cover is going to be different come testing time, this one looks exactly like the FW35's.

Good shots, but I'm more interested in the floor around the rear and the undertray

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Also one other thing I forgot to mention, no vertical bars in the mid section of the rear wing that would connect to the lower rear wing element about the rear crash structure. This obviously replaces the "monkey seat", which if you look close is still there, and the rear wing looks very similar to the FW35. As I've said the releases as of now seem to be a contest of who can get their car in view fastest, but the official releases are going to steal the show.

last years.

 

[Wardez]

Yeah, and the monkey seat's blown in the new car rendering, wonder how effective it is. Seems desperate, wonder how far down it goes since there'll be no beam wing either. The rear of the cars is going to be extremely interesting early on, should be all kinds of different solutions. So I expect no teams are going to allow photos of that yet.

 

[sems4arsenal]

edit: Never mind

 

[Furinkazen]

Here is the new RedBull http://www.redbull.com/us/en/motorsports/f1/stories/1331629396636/red-bull-racing-snapchat

It's not. I spy Bridgestones, grooved tyres, old aero, it's a past car.

 

[sems4arsenal]

It's not. I spy Bridgestones, grooved tyres, old aero, it's a past car.

Yep someone tweeted that (probably misunderstood the Article) but yeah you're right my bad

 

[SilverArrow]

Apparently Rosberg has driven the new car around Silverstone today and JEV has driven the Toro Rosso around Misano.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Here is how they sound and we shall now have 2 silver cars.

 

[priesty_lfc]

So I did one of these for the 2012 season, skipped 2013 due to the rules not changing much and school taking up the bulk of my time for any other interesting threads. The 2014 thread talks about the new rules, the technical shake ups due to said rules, but also the mass jumping of ship by so many technical personal that has been big news in the F1 world nearly on par with drivers, car design will be massively looked at.

So I'd say the notable cars to look at are Mercedes, RBR, McLaren and Ferrari and with the driver lines ups that suit said cars will obviously help. Really quick though as far as drivers go, I'd say the weakest paring from the 4 teams at the top is McLaren and this due to Magnussen being a young gamble more so than Lewis. I worry that Jenson's being concerned about the task of dealing with torque and his very small car set up window may be an issue, or I may very well be surprised. I will also make note and say Lotus isn't in the top with others even after another great year due to the technical shakes up and massive need for money. So I can say we probably will get more 2011 Lotus than 2012/2013.

So now after this I've supplied videos and a supposed idea of what the RB10 will look like in the bottom, and leave the rest to you, I will update this periodically and anyone else that loves the technical side can do so as well. So discuss what you think will come about or what tech regs (e.g. aero, engine regs, even weight restrictions), and debate it out.

Also I will post up the FIA regs, but keep in mind fuel will have a restriction and that the gear ratios will be set among other things.

EDIT: Found a video that is speculating or claiming the mule la Ferrari in it is testing the 2014 F1 engine.


Suggested potential McLaren design from an outside company

Interesting to see that the McLaren design is completely different to McLaren but pretty close to the Ferrari design!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Interesting to see that the McLaren design is completely different to McLaren but pretty close to the Ferrari design!

It will be more interesting to see if they keep the current design before Australia happens.

 

[Greycap]

I have no idea if a solution like this would be possible but if yes, I'll be amazed if someone doesn't try it. I actually had a vision of a pretty similar construction before finding this, consisting of a pretty normal looking nose with a "Z-shaped" pod underneath. The top might have to be a bit lower though to meet the rules.

 

[priesty_lfc]

I have no idea if a solution like this would be possible but if yes, I'll be amazed if someone doesn't try it. I actually had a vision of a pretty similar construction before finding this, consisting of a pretty normal looking nose with a "Z-shaped" pod underneath. The top might have to be a bit lower though to meet the rules.

Didn't the Caterham guy say he hated the 2014 noses ant that their design reminded him of the alien from Alien, that's what I get from that pic so it maybe close to the real thing.....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have no idea if a solution like this would be possible but if yes, I'll be amazed if someone doesn't try it. I actually had a vision of a pretty similar construction before finding this, consisting of a pretty normal looking nose with a "Z-shaped" pod underneath. The top might have to be a bit lower though to meet the rules.

Yeah the top would need to be changed.

 

[Greycap]

Didn't the Caterham guy say he hated the 2014 noses ant that their design reminded him of the alien from Alien, that's what I get from that pic so it maybe close to the real thing.....

He did indeed but the ironic thing is that this one is probably the best looking approach we've seen this far - I like the Ferrari more than the others but it doesn't mean that it's good, more like that the others are horrible. And the picture isn't an official sketch of any kind, the site where I found it also had a "Ferrari" with an identical rear end, the maker just happened to pick Caterham colours for this one.

 

[SilverArrow]

Renault engine soundtrack!

 

[Wardez]

Extremely interesting technical run through by James Allison (formerly on Lotus) on the F14 T:

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So I've been waiting but I'll point it out now. If you look to the rear of the McLaren you'll notice a new and strange yet different set up it would seem or the rear brake duct working. Also I like the mid vertical structures on the Ferrari.

 

[mister dog]

Something I just thought about; it will be a bad year for scale model companies like Minichamps and merchandising companies. Which kid would want a poster of one of these hideous cars on his wall?

 

[Robin]

Yeah with this years cars being that ugly scale model companies are going to find it hard to shift stock. I don't really want anything with those noses!

Having said that by the time the seasons out they may have all changed and gone back to a more conventional look.

 

[AnAL0G]

Something I just thought about; it will be a bad year for scale model companies like Minichamps and merchandising companies. Which kid would want a poster of one of these hideous cars on his wall?

Collectors might be more interested in them though.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Collectors might be more interested in them though.

I already am

 

[mister dog]

I already am

Freakish!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Just a friendly reminder STR will be released tomorrow and the others on Tuesday.

As for technical updates, I've found info that shows the FI car has a step feature that allows them to manipulate height rules. By manipulating such rules the area beneath the nose have more clearance for air to get under and be flowed around the rake and veins toward the rear diffuser.

The nose itself (top area that must drop 525mm) will still be legal...

 

[Wardez]

Hmm, I wonder if that compromises flow under, say around, Y300 and becomes underutilized. Looking at the lines of the car again from the side, it does seem to have more going on approximately above that.

They must have a really strong rear end package, or at least believe in it. That one may be a handful to set up.

Interesting to note as well is that the airbox on the Ferrari is tight, as we know. After seeing the Sauber, it's the same deal and what engines are they using? Ferrari.

They must be pretty confident in the cooling demands being lower since the inlets we've seen for the rest of the teams have been more ample. After the problems they had with their first batch of V8s got sorted and the engine freeze hit, Ferraris engines have been more reliable. I did say that they tended to overwork their powerplants in the past, so I'm still worried since this is a new generation, but you never know, maybe they've held back a bit in favor of reliability.