2014 NASCAR Thread

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It won't take too many races of another make winning before Goodyear would realize that it's time to get its act together. The only way to get better is to spend more on R&D and get a better tire.

Once again they're already spending a good amount of money on R&D since tracks change quite a bit...

Anyone who understands Supply and demand knows that when one tire is better than the alternative, the demand goes up. With a higher demand, that tire can raise the price because even if the advantage is a tenth, that's substantial enough to decide a race by marginal amounts.

First off this isn't a basic supply/demand model...guessing they didn't cover that in your High School Macro econ class. You can't just break a contract with supplier, if that was the case the examples I gave would have done so...by the way they didn't.

Teams won't be changing mid-season, but if there's one brand that shows superiority, it'll give those teams the automatic advantage for a whole year. That's a pretty crappy way to decide if you're going to get good runs or not.

You always say this sort of thing, you did it with the DP/LMP merger and how cost would dramatically rise due to trying to balance the field especially at Street Course events and Road Courses that Rolex hadn't been to in the past. You were worried that it wouldn't work and one group would get much more favoritism and you claimed before the racing even started that this was the case. Yet that's not so in reality. Also if one side did show better than the other one it most likely wont be all year due to the different range of tires for the tracks, two the other group obviously needs to do a better job that's why it's competition. Why you complain about this as if the world is rainbows and butterflies on a constant basis is beyond me, other than having an unwillingness to accept change.

I never said Goodyear doesn't R&D mid season They just bring a tire that according to most isn't the best. It's not like every car on the track has to run that tire or anything 👎

I never said you said they didn't either...so not sure why you're being defensive. All I said is in general to those reading either reminding or informing that Goodyear currently spend plenty of money R&D wise for tire tests each year. So the R&D angle is already there, I don't work for Goodyear so I don't know what compound mixtures they test and then decide to throw out or which ones the sanctioning body picks because it will "Create a good show".

You don't understand the team's perspective. As soon as one tire is better than the other, all the teams on the worse tire will moan about it. Then the other tire will get better and now the teams on the first tire will moan. Those R&D costs add up big time over the course of the season because after all, we both agree that they have to test throughout the year. Those tire companies can't keep charging the same price because they want to get a half decent ROI, so tire prices go up 💡

No I understand that quite well, teams will moan about anything that may give an advantage they don't have. However, they usually moan about it to the correct outlets that can actually fix it (e.g. the tire maker at fault). Also you're constant use of this circular reasoning is a bit far fetched.

Once again if these tire tests cost so greatly then why don't we hear Goodyear's back breaking after doing it for so long? Could it be that Goodyear have exclusive expenditures for this as well as NASCAR and their sponsors paying for the test as well...

Also you can look around from what I've read in the past tire prices are a certain cost through the entire year and don't just go up because of a few tests that were planned out prior to the current race season. You seem to think Motorsports tests run like the real world, but they really don't. Goodyear has to R&D as it is, and even road tires get millions of dollars spent on R&D, yet you don't see us or anyone else going out and have to fork over a thousand dollars per tire.

 

[cnd01]

Once again they're already spending a good amount of money on R&D since tracks change quite a bit...



First off this isn't a basic supply/demand model...guessing they didn't cover that in your High School Macro econ class. You can't just break a contract with supplier, if that was the case the examples I gave would have done so...by the way they didn't.



You always say this sort of thing, you did it with the DP/LMP merger and how cost would dramatically rise due to trying to balance the field especially at Street Course events and Road Courses that Rolex hadn't been to in the past. You were worried that it wouldn't work and one group would get much more favoritism and you claimed before the racing even started that this was the case. Yet that's not so in reality. Also if one side did show better than the other one it most likely wont be all year due to the different range of tires for the tracks, two the other group obviously needs to do a better job that's why it's competition. Why you complain about this as if the world is rainbows and butterflies on a constant basis is beyond me, other than having an unwillingness to accept change.



I never said you said they didn't either...so not sure why you're being defensive. All I said is in general to those reading either reminding or informing that Goodyear currently spend plenty of money R&D wise for tire tests each year. So the R&D angle is already there, I don't work for Goodyear so I don't know what compound mixtures they test and then decide to throw out or which ones the sanctioning body picks because it will "Create a good show".



No I understand that quite well, teams will moan about anything that may give an advantage they don't have. However, they usually moan about it to the correct outlets that can actually fix it (e.g. the tire maker at fault). Also you're constant use of this circular reasoning is a bit far fetched.

Once again if these tire tests cost so greatly then why don't we hear Goodyear's back breaking after doing it for so long? Could it be that Goodyear have exclusive expenditures for this as well as NASCAR and their sponsors paying for the test as well...

Also you can look around from what I've read in the past tire prices are a certain cost through the entire year and don't just go up because of a few tests that were planned out prior to the current race season. You seem to think Motorsports tests run like the real world, but they really don't. Goodyear has to R&D as it is, and even road tires get millions of dollars spent on R&D, yet you don't see us or anyone else going out and have to fork over a thousand dollar per tire.

If they're already spending a good bit on R&D to be as crappy tires as people are complaining that they are, think how high those costs will go if now they have to be better than other companies

I'm not saying that they're breaking contracts; however, who says they're signing contracts in the first place anyway? Your only basis is that it's done in Le Mans and F1 which are nothing like NASCAR

Cars sorta have to have tires to race. Therefore, the people that supply them can charge whatever they want. The company with the best tire can charge more because it's at a higher demand. That's the point in competition for necessities. If the competition was selling smoothies to the fans at the track, competition is awesome because that would drive the price down, but tires on race cars for a racing series aren't as simple.

Also, who knows how many tires Goodyear has brought to the track that's been a quality tire that NASCAR has told to change because they want drama.

Teams complaining may fix the problem, but then those same teams are complaining about the rising cost of tires

Goooooooood one on the road tire comparison. How many people choose the street tires they buy for the family car(s) because they get a faster lap time? 💡 Plus, there's millions of street cars compared to 43 NASCARs plus the Nationwide and CWTS. It's certainly easier to charge less for a customer pool of millions and make tons more money than spend just as much R&D for a tire that's sold to just the teams in NASCAR.

 

[GTPorsche]

The #77 was suppose to be the 43rd car on the entry list this week, but the team owner wasn't satisfied with the team's performance, so they've gone on hiatus to "retool" things. They plan on returning to the series by Indianapolis.

• #77 team "retooling": Randy Humphrey's race team won't be at Kentucky Speedway this weekend -- but that's not because the operation is shutting down. "We're retooling things," Humphrey said Tuesday by telephone. "We're just trying to find the right people. ... We have not shut down." The #77 car of Randy Humphrey Racing has competed in four NASCAR Sprint Cup Series events this season, all with veteran driver Dave Blaney behind the wheel. The team had entered every race until this past weekend's event on the Sonoma Raceway road course, although it ultimately withdrew from the Daytona 500, the most recent oval race at Michigan International Speedway two weeks ago, and two other events earlier this year. Humphrey said the hiatus isn't due to funding -- the competition level of his #77 car simply wasn't what he had hoped. Humphrey said he hopes to return to the track for the July 27 Crown Royal Presents the John Walding 400 at The Brickyard at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. "You will not see us at Daytona (next weekend), but I do suspect you will be seeing us at Indy forward, hopefully," he said. "That's our plan. We have some meetings that are going on, and we're just interviewing some people. We had to retool some people and that kind of thing to get ourselves in order here."(NASCAR.com)(6-25-2014)
  

http://www.jayski.com/cupnews.htm#20140625f

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If they're already spending a good bit on R&D to be as crappy tires as people are complaining that they are, think how high those costs will go if now they have to be better than other companies

...Once again I'm guessing you didn't read my post (much like the USCC thread) and missed where I said we don't know what compounds Goodyear decides to forgo, or which ones the sanctioning body wants due to the "entertainment factor", much like F1.

I'm not saying that they're breaking contracts; however, who says they're signing contracts in the first place anyway? Your only basis is that it's done in Le Mans and F1 which are nothing like NASCAR

Yeah they're nothing like NASCAR because the sport provides a tire from a single group...

We know contracts are signed because teams pair up with manufactures...for example Penske being the main Dodge group and then switching over to Ford, they couldn't jump ship sooner due to contract which they then decided not to renew in 2013.

Cars sorta have to have tires to race. Therefore, the people that supply them can charge whatever they want. The company with the best tire can charge more because it's at a higher demand. That's the point in competition for necessities. If the competition was selling smoothies to the fans at the track, competition is awesome because that would drive the price down, but tires on race cars for a racing series aren't as simple.

No 🤬 sherlock, I though the drivers would just work out their legs and Fred Flintstone the cars around 1.5 miles.

No that really isn't how a free market works, perhaps take a class on it, I've sadly had to for humanities and global understanding. And supply/demand competition usually specifies that the items with the best yet most cost effecients sells better. If a Goodyear does good at track T, U, V but not X, Y, Z like Michelin the team will swallow that and go for Goodyear because it cost less (hypothetical since you like that). Also the track compound of say Indy, Atlanta, Michigan and Texas are quite different from one another. Especially with seasonal conditions and usage baring on them year after year, as well as when last repaving happened. Thus to think it's that easy to just have a single dominant tire all year...is naive.

Also, who knows how many tires Goodyear has brought to the track that's been a quality tire that NASCAR has told to change because they want drama.

Pointed that out in my last post...

Teams complaining may fix the problem, but then those same teams are complaining about the rising cost of tires

Based on what? You don't know that you're just crying wolf without showing one being there. I've read what you've had to say. Clearly you think this is how it works and keep thinking this. So have at it and we'll hope this occurs so we can see how well your ideals pan out.

Goooooooood one on the road tire comparison. How many people choose the street tires they buy for the family car(s) because they get a faster lap time? 💡 Plus, there's millions of street cars compared to 43 NASCARs plus the Nationwide and CWTS. It's certainly easier to charge less for a customer pool of millions and make tons more money than spend just as much R&D for a tire that's sold to just the teams in NASCAR.

Okay and that changes what? It doesn't matter what people choose or care is on their cars but manufactures do and thus tire groups spend tons of money in R&D to make better tires year in and year out.

What you seem to not get is that these companies have a set amount of money set aside each fiscal year for such expenditures. Thus they don't have some special bank account that says "for NASCAR only don't touch please!!!". They have a set monetary amount that gets allocated to each aspect of R&D and so on, they aren't losing money on NASCAR because that was R&D money that had already planned to spend. For info that can go back into the Sport as well as other series if they want to join and also road tires applications.

But hey what do I know I've only been doing the engineering program stuff and research since 2010 and done interning and trying to get my second degree with it. I'm just some guy that doesn't know anything when you really think about it.

 

[cnd01]

...Once again I'm guessing you didn't read my post (much like the USCC thread) and missed where I said we don't know what compounds Goodyear decides to forgo, or which ones the sanctioning body wants due to the "entertainment factor", much like F1.



Yeah they're nothing like NASCAR because the sport provides a tire from a single group...

We know contracts are signed because teams pair up with manufactures...for example Penske being the main Dodge group and then switching over to Ford, they couldn't jump ship sooner due to contract which they then decided not to renew in 2013.



No 🤬 sherlock, I though the drivers would just work out their legs and Fred Flintstone the cars around 1.5 miles.

No that really isn't how a free market works, perhaps take a class on it, I've sadly had to for humanities and global understanding. And supply/demand competition usually specifies that the items with the best yet most cost effecients sells better. If a Goodyear does good at track T, U, V but not X, Y, Z like Michelin the team will swallow that and go for Goodyear because it cost less (hypothetical since you like that). Also the track compound of say Indy, Atlanta, Michigan and Texas are quite different from one another. Especially with seasonal conditions and usage baring on them year after year, as well as when last repaving happened. Thus to think it's that easy to just have a single dominant tire all year...is naive.



Pointed that out in my last post...



Based on what? You don't know that you're just crying wolf without showing one being there. I've read what you've had to say. Clearly you think this is how it works and keep thinking this. So have at it and we'll hope this occurs so we can see how well your ideals pan out.



Okay and that changes what? It doesn't matter what people choose or care is on their cars but manufactures do and thus tire groups spend tons of money in R&D to make better tires year in and year out.

What you seem to not get is that these companies have a set amount of money set aside each fiscal year for such expenditures. Thus they don't have some special bank account that says "for NASCAR only don't touch please!!!". They have a set monetary amount that gets allocated to each aspect of R&D and so on, they aren't losing money on NASCAR because that was R&D money that had already planned to spend. For info that can go back into the Sport as well as other series if they want to join and also road tires applications.

But hey what do I know I've only been doing the engineering program stuff and research since 2010 and done interning and trying to get my second degree with it. I'm just some guy that doesn't know anything when you really think about it.

Did you even look at my post for more than 2 seconds?

You're saying half the same things I am yet telling me I have no clue how it works

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Did you even look at my post for more than 2 seconds?

You're saying half the same things I am yet telling me I have no clue how it works

I could and actually did ask you the same thing. And we aren't saying the same things as much as you're putting forth all of a sudden. Oh and the continuous eye roll is so adorable.

 

[RACECAR]

As is his idea that the tire company that makes a better tire will charge more when looking at other competitive markets, it works the complete opposite.

 

[cnd01]

The offseason(and during the season) is an even bigger tire test for all teams raising cost right there for either the tire company, the teams, or NASCAR because someone has to pay for all that. If it's the teams, the big ones can afford it no problem while the smaller teams can't making the pace gap larger which is counter-intuitive to a stock car series. If it's NASCAR, they won't like it and either limit testing or find some other way to make up for that cost meaning the fans or the teams end up paying more. If it's the tire companies, they want to get some ROI on those tests meaning more expensive tires. With the tire quality getting significantly better, lap times should pick up meaning more speed causing engines to wear out faster. Raise the team's engine budgets too. The cars are already going extremely fast now as is with the current packages putting so much stress on the engines.

It's much more complicated than Tire company A wants to sell more tires than Tire company B

 

[Ganon83]

Hearing the 30 car has been entered by Xxxtreme for Kentucky, no word on driver

 

[meek]

.

 

[Doodle]

Am I the only one that doesn't seem to care if a cup regular wins a truck/nationwide race?

 

[cnd01]

Am I the only one that doesn't seem to care if a cup regular wins a truck/nationwide race?

Doesn't matter to me either

 

[Ganon83]

Well, I guess they didn't.
This really makes Joe look like an idiot too, he said he was going to pull out the 87 (Probably for Timmy Hill) but a 43rd car had entered before him so he didn't.

 

[Carbonox]

Am I the only one that doesn't seem to care if a cup regular wins a truck/nationwide race?

I try not to think about it any longer, because to me, the winner is the highest placing non-Cup regular.

 

[Adamgp]

Kryle's truck found to be too low:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/kyle-buschs-truck-measured-too-032200798--nascar.html

 

[vipahcheese]

Huh, I wonder if that'll change anything later on?

 

[GTPorsche]

Won't change anything. Team will be penalized, but only points/money.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

@Ganon83 Joe's starting with in the top 10

 

[meek]

.

 

[GTPorsche]

No.. there are 42 entered.

 

[meek]

.

 

[Jahgee]

 

[GTPorsche]

Richard drove it first on Friday... then I watched Kenny Brack drive it yesterday afternoon.

Then was surprised to see the familiar red and blue Cafe do Brasil helmet and 1970s McLaren firesuit wearing Emmerson Fittipaldi behind the wheel of the car today.

BTW, Kerry Earnhardt is driving one of his father's 2000 season cars at Goodwood. Other cars there are the 1969 Daytona 500 winning car of Fred Lorenzen, an old Red Bull Camry that's been kitted up with a smoke sprayer, and headlights that's been doing massive burnouts at the hands of Patrick Freisacher (not sure if anyone in this thread would be familiar with him as he was a short-lived F1 driver for Minardi back in 2005), a 2012 Chevy Impala redone to look like a Gen-6 SS without the actual body that RCR had modified for Max Papis to coach the Dillon boys at Road Courses. It's got 2 steering racks in it, and probably two pedal sets. Rob Kauffman, co-owner of MWR was driving an old Junior Johnson #3, which, combined with the Earnhardt car and the one Papis has been racing up the hill (he's set and broken the class record 3 times in the last two days) were part of a "History of the #3" tribute. Mike Skinner has one of his #5 Tundras as well that' he's been racing, and doing burnouts up the hill. He;s been through at least 3 sets of Goodyears, and blown out at least one tire. There is also a 2013 Gen-6 Camry #56 NAPA. The #56 and the 1969 Daytona 500 winning car are both out of a Dutch racing museum that specializes in Stock Cars.

Not sure if the Fred Lorenzen car was ran today because it blew a clutch in the afternoon session yesterday.

 

[Cale]

Stream in case anyone needs one.


http://www.justin.tv/motors49

 

[Jahgee]

Looks like tires are again a problem this year

 

[cnd01]

Denny can't have any worse luck

 

[MustangRyan]

Holy audio loop.

 

[The Bman]

TNT should stop hiring nightclub DJ's to remix their broadcast audio.

 

[GTPorsche]

Looks like TNT's audio is a problem again this year

 

[RACECAR]

So, who else is laughing at TNT's hideous Audio issue?