2014 NASCAR Thread

[RVDNuT374]

NASCAR possibly the only notable motorsport in the world that you can get away with being drunk in an interview.

When the average NASCAR fan looks like this *this was seriously the first image in a Google search*, there are no standards for decency:

 

[MustangRyan]

I don't see any actual indication at all that these are real NASCAR fans, or even just stereotypical rednecks found in a sea of normal people at a NASCAR event. Where is the Dale Jr hat, or Chevy tattoo? Where is a NASCAR banner in the background? Where's the track? These could be random rednecks at an outdoor concert.

 

[GTPorsche]

I don't see any actual indication at all that these are real NASCAR fans, or even just stereotypical rednecks found in a sea of normal people at a NASCAR event. Where is the Dale Jr hat, or Chevy tattoo? Where is a NASCAR banner in the background? Where's the track? These could be random rednecks at an outdoor concert.

Most likely that. I don't think many Confederate battle flag shirts show up at NASCAR races.

 

[RACECAR]

And last I checked, that forested area does not look like its at a NASCAR track.

 

[cnd01]

If you go to Dega, there's the occasional sighting from having buddies that go every year, but generally it's not nearly that bad. From going to Atlanta multiple times, there are a lot of families that go

 

[Chqr]

Yup, not sure if I've been sitting in the family sections in all the NASCAR Sprint Cup events I've been too but I have yet to spot any of these so-called 'rednecks' at any track.

 

[Ganon83]

It has gotten a lot better over the past 20 years. Back then, my dad once told me he saw like 5 at Richmond.

 

[meek]

Sonoma. I have not seen any of the others. Lots of passing and incidents. Allmendinger and McMurray had a great battle up front and the dink between Kyle/Kurt Busch (the M&M car) and Keselowski was interesting. But in terms of outright pace it isn't as fast as I thought it was.

it should look slower.

Sonoma is a short (1.99 miles), slow road course, the track record is only 96.35mph (1mn14.354s).
Indy? 187.531mph ! (2.5 miles in 47.992s)
Watkins Glen (the other road course)'s track record --soon to be beaten-- is 128.241mph.

NASCAR race cars have very little downforce compared to open-wheel cars (F1 or IndyCar). They have way more power (roughly 850-900hp). They have much narrower tires (11.5" width). They are much heavier. They have 4-speed manual transmissions, with H-gate shifters instead of paddle-shifters mounted on the wheel. Everything about the car makes it harder to drive on a road course, so it should look slower.

way more power?? F1s and Indycars are at least 800 to 850hp too (NASCARs only do 900hp in GT6), possibly more, depending on era/FIA regulations.
NASCARs don't use H-gate shifters (http://www.google.fr/imgres?imgurl=http://image.europeancarweb.com/f/8932399/0507_03z%2BLamborghini_Murcielago_Roadster%2BInterior_Close_Up_Shift_Gate.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hyundaicoupeclub.co.uk/interior-exterior-questions-styling/gear-lever-extenders-gate-shifters-t6296.html&h=480&w=640&tbnid=r8dYEatBqY30GM:&zoom=1&docid=qfeGmB3qt_KEdM&ei=4ASyU7TjGseMO4ndgIgF&tbm=isch&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=1136&page=1&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=0CDQQrQMwBg)
but semi-automatic transmissions, like rally cars.

They are much heavier

it all comes down to this, essentially. Same HP or close, but 550kg (F1s) to 720kg (Indycars) for open-wheels, 1500kg for a NASCAR... Weight/Power ratio is more than twice better for open-wheels! And yes, GT6's PP formula is dependant on weight/power ratio.

_________

44 entries for Saturday night's Daytona race, including #21 Trevor Bayne, #29 Joe Nemechek, #32 Terry Labonte, #33 Bobby Labonte, #66 Michael Waltrip, #95 Michael McDowell.

 

[GTPorsche]

NASCAR does not use semi-automatic gearboxes. They are H-gate dogclutch gearboxes.

You also missed the part where Indycar/F1 have way more downforce than NASCAR does.

 

[meek]

Open-wheels probably produce way more downforce, wasn't gonna "correct" (for lack of better word) him on that. Anyway, I'd rather have a twice lighter car with close HP than just "more downforce", if you catch my drift?

Try 600hp in F1.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2014/1/15408.html


For IndyCar, it's 575/625/675 for superspeedways/1.5 mile/road courses.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/racing-news/inside-indycar-engines-2014


So yes, 850+ hp is significantly more power, especially with less downforce and less tire to hold it to the road.

going by this:
the new open engine formula will use 2.2 liter twin-turbocharged V6 Engines to run provided it can be tuned to produce the full range of 550–750 HP.
+
The "push to pass" feature in 2012 will allow a limited horsepower gain up to 100 HP

750+100=850 ...for Indycars, which are rev limited, they'd be way above 850hp otherwise.

Last I really followed F1 they were doing above 1000hp, and your link says they were still doing 830hp last year... looks like you overlooked the "possibly more, depending on era/FIA regulations" at the end of my sentence.

 

[-Fred-]

That's no sequential gearbox my friend. It's a dogbox, meaning they don't actually need the clutch to upshift, but it's still very much an H-Pattern like most manual streetcars out there.

 

[MustangRyan]

way more power?? F1s and Indycars are at least 800 to 850hp too (NASCARs only do 900hp in GT6), possibly more, depending on era/FIA regulations.


it all comes down to this, essentially. Same HP or close, but 550kg (F1s) to 720kg (Indycars) for open-wheels, 1500kg for a NASCAR... Weight/Power ratio is more than twice better for open-wheels! And yes, GT6's PP formula is dependant on weight/power ratio.

Try 600hp in F1.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2014/1/15408.html


For IndyCar, it's 575/625/675 for superspeedways/1.5 mile/road courses.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/racing/racing-news/inside-indycar-engines-2014


So yes, 850+ hp is significantly more power, especially with less downforce and less tire to hold it to the road.

 

[meek]

.

 

[GTPorsche]

If you're going to argue against the facts, at least come with a better argument.

 

[iRevelationz]

that is one confused poster...Do you see Dinger's left feet? I can guarantee you he's not only using it to brake.

If they actually "didn't need the clutch to upshift", that would make it a... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission !!
A semi-automatic transmission (SAT) (also known as a clutchless manual transmission, automated manual transmission, flappy-paddle gearbox, or paddle-shift gearbox) is an automobile transmission that does not change gears automatically, but rather facilitates manual gear changes by dispensing with the need to press a clutch pedal at the same time as changing gears.

So... no H-pattern or semi-automatic, but sequential manual gearboxes for NASCARs.

 

[meek]

.

 

[-Fred-]

You have absolutely no clue what the differences between a dogbox and a semi-automatic gearbox are, obviously.

 

[GTPorsche]

How exactly am I wrong about it being H-pattern?

 

[JohnBM01]

Earlier today, FOX Sports 1 shown a K&N Pro Series East race at Langley Speedway in Hampton, VA. One of the racers who had an impressive showing was a girl named Kenzie Ruston, who finished 3rd. I think she tied for the highest finish in that series for a female. Kenzie is currently about 9th in the K&N Pro Series East championship. Who knows? She may want to step up to Trucks, Nationwide, or even Cup and put on a great show.

 

[MustangRyan]

going by this:
the new open engine formula will use 2.2 liter twin-turbocharged V6 Engines to run provided it can be tuned to produce the full range of 550–750 HP.
+
The "push to pass" feature in 2012 will allow a limited horsepower gain up to 100 HP

750+100=850 ...for Indycars, which are rev limited, they'd be way above 850hp otherwise.

The IndyCar tops out at 675hp (only on road courses), according to their own base specs. Yes, they can temporarily add 100hp, but that still leaves them at 775, and only for a short amount of time. At Indy, they are still running 575hp in base spec trim.

Last I really followed F1 they were doing above 1000hp, and your link says they were still doing 830hp last year... looks like you overlooked the "possibly more, depending on era/FIA regulations" at the end of my sentence.

The last I really followed this thread, I'm pretty sure it was talking about NASCAR in 2014, not about F1 in a bygone era. If we're going to throw hypothetical scenarios into play, let's just sit here and wonder what Rick Hendrick's fleet of engineers could do with a twin-turbocharged 357 cubic inch V-8 with no restrictions in place. The power numbers would be insane, and would easily dwarf anything other than NHRA dragster engines.

 

[meek]

.

 

[Gerarghini]

read the link?

With traditional manual transmissions, the driver can move from gear to gear, by moving the shifter to the appropriate position. A clutch must be disengaged before the new gear is selected, to disengage the running engine from the transmission, thus stopping all torque transfer. This type of transmission is often referred to as a H-pattern because of the path that the shift lever takes as it selects the various gears.

Sequential manual transmissions work by providing the driver with the ability to select the gear directly before or after the gear currently engaged.

-You see any H-pattern path on NASCAR gearboxes? nope, just down or up to shift, AKA sequential manual transmission.

-Can NASCARs go from, say, 1st to 3rd gear directly? no they can't. Traditional manual streetcars with H-pattern can!

-Do you see Harvick using the clutch in iRevelationz's video? Clutch MUST be used with H-pattern (A clutch must be disengaged before the new gear is selected)

1, 2, 3 y'er out, so much for facts...


I should have read further -see red part below- instead of using common sense (I thought clutch was used because my driver ALWAYS moves his left foot when switching gears in NTG2014, and didn't think they would have created the cinematics if drivers weren't really using it in real life) !


You're saying they're dogboxes (whatever that is, english isn't my first langage and google isn't really helping) with H-patterns, I'm saying they're SATs (sequential manual transmission/gearbox).

Yes, I was wrong about them having to use the clutch, I should have read the SAT page entirely, specifically that part:

Beyond the ease of use from a driver's standpoint, an additional benefit of sequential manual gearboxes is that use of the clutch via foot pedal or hand control can be minimized or completely obviated, with the clutch only used for starting from a complete stop.

Like I said, confused poster (and even worse, confused poster who thinks he knows), thank you for helping me learn, though.

They're H-pattern gearboxes. You can clearly see from the video posted by @-Fred- how Allmendinger moves the shifter left and right, not just up and down. He only releases the accelerator to change gears.

As simple as that.

 

[meek]

.

 

[iRevelationz]

read the link?


Sequential manual transmissions work by providing the driver with the ability to select the gear directly before or after the gear currently engaged.

-You see any H-pattern PATH on NASCAR gearboxes? nope, just down or up to shift.

-Can NASCARs go from, say, 1st to 3rd gear directly? no, they can't. Traditional manual streetcars with H-pattern can.

Then how do NASCAR drivers occasionally miss shifts on restarts? Instead of going from 2nd to 3rd, they accidentally knock it back into 1st. How does that work without an H-pattern?

 

[RACECAR]

@meek

Here's a crystal clear video of a H pattern shifter:



Pay careful attention to the shifter at 1:53. That is done without a clutch and its not simply "Up & Down" as you describe it.

Here's another example that includes a footcam as well



Again pay special attention at 1:09 to the shifter, that is not going simply up and down and at the same time, no clutch pedal for changing gears (which leaves me to believe that's more or less a dead pedal in that particular video).

 

[Diehardracer]

What were you expecting? GT cars?

I was expecting nothing.

 

[GTPorsche]

So he's still adamant that it's a sequential?

NASCAR gearbox shift pattern is 4RUL. BTW, semi-autos, autos, sequentials and any forms of the 3 I've somehow missed are not approved for NASCAR competition. The reason they aren't required to shift using the clutch is because it's a dog clutch. All of this has been explained to you and you still think we are all wrong and you are right.

I'm not sure how much more it can be explained....

 

[MustangRyan]

So he's still adamant that it's a sequential?

NASCAR gearbox shift pattern is 4RUL. BTW, semi-autos, autos, sequentials and any forms of the 3 I've somehow missed are not approved for NASCAR competition. The reason they aren't required to shift using the clutch is because it's a dog clutch. All of this has been explained to you and you still think we are all wrong and you are right.

I'm not sure how much more it can be explained....

Yeah, I'm not seeing any paddle shifters in AJ's car...

 

[Johnny1996]

Its been a very long time since I've posted in here, and it appears that I came back at a less than ideal time.

I've been watching NASCAR as much as I can this season, from Speedweeks to last race, including the Pocono race that had a heck of a finish. I'm onboard this thread for the rest of the season, provided I don't skip over it in my alerts and forget about it again.

The weather for Friday for Daytona shows thunderstorms, but since someone might have already checked, I'll leave it at that. If no one has checked, let me know and I'll do so.

 

[GTPorsche]

Typical Florida weather (), but I don't think anyone had mentioned the chance of thunderstorms yet.