2014 Pirelli Hungarian Grand Prix

[craigatm]

If you didn't intend to I understand hence why I apologized because your initial comments seemed to be in relation to me on how you yourself perceived them and thus how you didn't like the bias. Perhaps because you couldn't hear or see where it was coming from, later on you say you weren't actually watching the race so I was confused as to why comment because initially it seemed as if you were.

It's cool man!

Having seen the race now, it doesn't seem to me that Hamilton forced Rosberg out wide. In fact Nico barely seemed to be alongside Lewis's car. What appeared to happen to me is that both drivers braked a tad too late for the corner, thus missing the apex and running out wide. Upon accelerating towards the exit of the corner, Hamilton got a kick of oversteer; thus bringing him slightly more into Rosbergs path, making the space slightly marginal. But Nico was only just alongside with Lewis's rear wheels when this happened; he was never alongside enough to have been able to pull off the move.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I just browsed the last few pags and saw WALLS of text. Won't even bother reading them. My quick notes:


Ricciardo - Great race, he really has no problems in dealing with WDC guys, this kid is, besides looking a great person, a great driver. I am impressed

Alonso - DOTD, by far. What he did borders on the unbelievable.

Hamilton - rookie mistake at the beggining (come on Ham, you didn't do the warm up lap, use your brain and think what are the consequences of that) but was very lucky to survive it. And he was again very lucky throughout the race, up to the end, when he met the greatest F1 driver in active duty with shot tyres but no intention to pit. His blocking move on Nico is clearly within his right, as it was the refusal to let him by a few laps before. Hamilton saved the day, but by no means was his driving something to remember.

Rosberg - As Hamilton, nothing particularly great to say about his drive today. He was unlucky yes, and he did what he could do yes.

Everyone else just did their races. Bottas was unlucky too, has to be said.


PS - If Alonso keeps doing drives like this for one or two years more I may cease my "mourning" status lasting since Zolder 1982, and may even become his fan. Unbelievable driving.

 

[Nooboogering]

Their respective pace at the end doesn't matter, after 17 or so laps Rosberg was 5th and Hamilton 7th, yet Hamilton finished ahead of Rosberg so how is it a worse strategy? Could have, should have, doesn't change what happened and it's all speculation.

True, but it could/should of been much a easier race for Lewis.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

True, but it could/should of been much a easier race for Lewis.

Should have been potentially 2nd for Lewis and 3rd for Nico without any team order nonsense if Mercedes did not make mistake of putting Lewis on medium tyres unlike rest of the front runners.

 

[jtv90069]

Hamilton made his strategy when Vettel span due to pressure being put on him and overtaking Vergne which Rosberg didn't manage to do hence pitting. Then Lewis became the lead car as he had a pit stop on Rosberg and track position. What did they do, put him on medium tyres, only reason why Rosberg got close as Hamilton would have been something like on potentially more than 7 laps fresher soft tyres with track position over Rosberg and margin to him.

True, but it could/should of been much a easier race for Lewis.

And the extra pit "could" have been horrible destroying his race.

 

[86Debris86]

What a grand prix that was. I've been waiting (and avoiding any news) since 5am, when I started work, to watch that. Well worth the wait.

Another fantastic result for Lewis, all things considered. Alonso was great too. And seeing Ricciardo win always makes me smile. His "YEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHH" over the team radio was awesome .

Honourable mention to Vettel's skills for not hitting the wall after that spin . Can't have been just luck.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Again Lewis would have track position and better tyres than Rosberg so Nico would have to overtake Lewis on track with older tyres to finish ahead.

He pitted after I agree than Nico, but he came out ahead which is whole point, he would be on much fresher tyres than Nico and with track position. Only way Nico would finish ahead is if he could overtake Lewis while on older tyres.

Yes but you are talking about a hypothetical second pit stop after that which he would need to make like Nico around lap 50 or whatever it was. At that point it's likely that Nico would have caught up and been in range to pass Lewis if he had come in. And though Nico would still have older tires Lewis would have to try and pass.

@jtv90069 said it, and I said it earlier if he went for the same strategy as Nico it could have hurt his race. They were already pulling out bad stops due to the whole tape on the ducts.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

And the extra pit "could" have been horrible destroying his race.

Fernando never pitted again with older soft tyres so if he mirrored what he did, he would likely been in a better situation as not only did his tyres go off as much as Fernando, the lack of pace of the tyre hurt him too when on mediums. I guess next thing you will say is they may crash or whatever but I am just talking about strategy was worse than it could be.

Yes but you are talking about a hypothetical second pit stop after that which he would need to make like Nico around lap 50 or whatever it was. At that point it's likely that Nico would have caught up and been in range to pass Lewis if he had come in. And though Nico would still have older tires Lewis would have to try and pass.

Lewis would mirror what Nico does while each time having fresher tyres and having lead call, I did not see anything from Nico that he would manage to achieve passing Lewis on track while on older tyres and having to make a big margin up when he couldn't do it Softs vs Medium tyre difference. Lewis would always have the fresher tyres and track position so it would be up to Nico to pass on track.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Lewis would mirror what Nico does while each time having fresher tyres and having lead call, I did not see anything from Nico that he would manage to achieve passing Lewis on track while on older tyres and having to make a big margin up when he couldn't do it Softs vs Medium tyre difference. Lewis would always have the fresher tyres and track position so it would be up to Nico to pass on track.

No he wouldn't have and here is proof.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/27/neither-mercedes-driver-won-lowe/

Also you still haven't explained after Nico's second stop he'd be behind as well saw, but then Lewis would have stopped and came out ahead, then they would have had one more stop each. He was only ahead for the one.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No he wouldn't have and here is proof.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/27/neither-mercedes-driver-won-lowe/

Also you still haven't explained after Nico's second stop he'd be behind as well saw, but then Lewis would have stopped and came out ahead, then they would have had one more stop each. He was only ahead for the one.

I did not say Lewis would win race so don't know what proof that is. Mistake was to put him on two stops, why put Nico on three which proved the better strategy and Lewis was on the much slower two that without defending his position, going by lap times, Lewis would have lost a lot of time in comparison.

Why would Nico need team orders to get ahead then if he is already ahead on track which you seem to be suggesting? Lewis would be ahead of Nico with better tyres as he made his advantage passing Vettel and Vergne and getting a pit stop on Nico at the time, team made mistake of putting him on mediums when there is so much pace advantage with the soft tyres while having very good endurance.

 

[jtv90069]

Fernando never pitted again with older soft tyres so if he mirrored what he did, he would likely been in a better situation as not only did his tyres go off as much as Fernando, the lack of pace of the tyre hurt him too when on mediums. I guess next thing you will say is they may crash or whatever but I am just talking about strategy was worse than it could be.

When Rosberg pitted the first time he was ahead of Hamilton, and normally would have been still ahead after the pit, but he wasn't and Hamiltons strategy had been decided. They expected Alonso to pit but he didn't, of course they could have changed strategy again and put Hamilton back to 15 seconds behind Ricciardo, and they probably should've have brought Rosberg into the pits several laps earlier. But as it all turns out Hamilton did have the better strategy than Rosberg because he finished ahead of him.
Alonso and Ricciardo had the best strategies on the day in a very difficult race and well deserved to finish where they did.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

When Rosberg pitted the first time he was ahead of Hamilton, and normally would have been still ahead after the pit, but he wasn't and Hamiltons strategy had been decided. They expected Alonso to pit but he didn't, of course they could have changed strategy again and put Hamilton back to 15 seconds behind Ricciardo, and they probably should've have brought Rosberg into the pits several laps earlier. But as it all turns out Hamilton did have the better strategy than Rosberg because he finished ahead of him.
Alonso and Ricciardo had the best strategies on the day in a very difficult race and well deserved to finish where they did.

Like I said before Hamilton made his strategy, Rosberg failed to overtake Vergne hence why he pitted. Lewis managed to overtake Vergne and went those extra laps longer. What is point of team putting him on tyres that are slower and don't have that good endurance given relative pace. He would have newer tyres and same compound as Fernando to end of race in worst case scenario with a superior car and there would be no way a team order would be called then to let Nico through as Lewis would likely be quicker.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I did not say Lewis would win race so don't know what proof that is. Mistake was to put him on two stops, why put Nico on three which proved the better strategy and Lewis was on the much slower two that without defending his position, going by lap times, Lewis would have lost a lot of time in comparison.

Um because they don't have the ability to see into the future and as the article explains beyond just them winning their strategies were compromised by the two SCs. Nothing was proven at all, what it showed was Lewis had a better strategy for the first half due to the circumstances and Nico had a better ending strategy but they had no way of knowing that.

Why would Nico need team orders to get ahead then if he is already ahead on track which you seem to be suggesting? Lewis would be ahead of Nico with better tyres as he made his advantage passing Vettel and Vergne and getting a pit stop on Nico at the time, team made mistake of putting him on mediums when there is so much pace advantage with the soft tyres while having very good endurance.

Because the cars have turbulent aero outside the DRS zones that make it difficult to pass a car as well as the nature of the track alone not having very many overtake areas. He asked or thought he was going to be given the spot due to having different strategies. I never said he was ahead on the track, I said that Nico would have been ahead come a third stop if Lewis took one. He only got a pitstop on Nico because he was always going to have one, and all that means is when he would decide to pit with in range he would come out ahead. That doesn't mean he had a free pit stop after words for a third stop.

They didn't make a mistake they had a set up from the start that worked but Lewis couldn't pass the slower Alonso and create space between him and the rest of the drivers which for the fourth of fifth time seemed to be the plan for MGP. Also if you don't care about him winning then how was he compromised, what the hell are you arguing for if the compromise was him not winning?

 

[mustafur]

I think Hamiltons Strategy was Better then Rosbergs but both could of been better.

Hamilton could of won the Race if he went for a 3 stopper and went for two more soft stints instead of the 1 medium stint, but this would of required him to pass Alonso then catch up to Ricciardos gap and then pass or extend it after he pitted so then he can exit his pitstop Infront of alonso.

Thats the exact best case strategy for Hamilton, but the one he went with was still quite good given the unsure situation with the weather, limiting your pitstops gives your more flexibility on the weather change.

 

[neljack]

Via @ChrisMedlandF1: "Yesterday, Nico said he wanted to fight Lewis. Today, he's unhappy Hamilton didn't move out of his way.."

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Um because they don't have the ability to see into the future and as the article explains beyond just them winning their strategies were compromised by the two SCs. Nothing was proven at all, what it showed was Lewis had a better strategy for the first half due to the circumstances and Nico had a better ending strategy but they had no way of knowing that.



Because the cars have turbulent aero outside the DRS zones that make it difficult to pass a car as well as the nature of the track alone not having very many overtake areas. He asked or thought he was going to be given the spot due to having different strategies. I never said he was ahead on the track, I said that Nico would have been ahead come a third stop if Lewis took one. He only got a pitstop on Nico because he was always going to have one, and all that means is when he would decide to pit with in range he would come out ahead. That doesn't mean he had a free pit stop after words for a third stop.

They didn't make a mistake they had a set up from the start that worked but Lewis couldn't pass the slower Alonso and create space between him and the rest of the drivers which for the fourth of fifth time seemed to be the plan for MGP. Also if you don't care about him winning then how was he compromised, what the hell are you arguing for if the compromise was him not winning?

The second part of the race was in dry conditions, they could both be put on the same strategy as it would be fair then.

I am trying to explain something very simple to you. Hamilton will be on fresh soft tyres ahead of Nico Rosberg if team did not compromise him by putting medium tyres on. Lewis pitted a lap after Fernando and put on medium tyres which he had very slow pace on which can be seen compared to his older soft tyres and more fuel, he seemed to have less pace than then. I said it cost him a very good chance of getting second seeing how alive the car became with so much pace on soft tyres and with less fuel.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The second part of the race was in dry conditions, they could both be put on the same strategy as it would be fair then.

I am trying to explain something very simple to you. Hamilton will be on fresh soft tyres ahead of Nico Rosberg if team did not compromise him by putting medium tyres on. Lewis pitted a lap after Fernando and put on medium tyres which he had very slow pace on which can be seen compared to his older soft tyres and more fuel, he seemed to have less pace than then. I said it cost him a very good chance of getting second seeing how alive the car became with so much pace on soft tyres and with less fuel.

Obviously I'm not the only one here that disagrees with you or doesn't see how he would have still finished any better than what he did. You said you're not arguing about him winning so then what are you arguing? Him finishing second? Yes we know he was slower on the medium, because they're the slower tire. So now you're arguing it cost him second? What cost him second was just not being able to pass Alonso no matter that strategy also I rather not have an argument about second, because really who cares at this point it's splitting hairs I'm Hamilton fan but I doubt he would have finished better than third.

 

[jtv90069]

The difference between Hamilton's fastest on each tyre was 0.109 which was on his 20th lap on medium tyres shortly before being under Alonso's rear wing. If Alonso had pitted again as most expected, Hamilton would've been 1st and defending his position at the end and the strategy could have been perfect. But as I said earlier it's all done and theorizing as to what might have been is pointless.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Obviously I'm not the only one here that disagrees with you or doesn't see how he would have still finished any better than what he did. You said you're not arguing about him winning so then what are you arguing? Him finishing second? Yes we know he was slower on the medium, because they're the slower tire. So now you're arguing it cost him second? What cost him second was just not being able to pass Alonso no matter that strategy also I rather not have an argument about second, because really who cares at this point it's splitting hairs I'm Hamilton fan but I doubt he would have finished better than third.

I am arguing his strategy was compromised with medium tyres being chosen, I think he would have much better chance of getting ahead of Fernando given pace advantage of the car if they chose Softs. You were also saying that Nico would finish ahead of Lewis if he was pitted for Softs too. You have yet to prove your point, I think I have done my bit.

The difference between Hamilton's fastest on each tyre was 0.109 which was on his 20th lap on medium tyres shortly before being under Alonso's rear wing. If Alonso had pitted again as most expected, Hamilton would've been 1st and defending his position at the end and the strategy could have been perfect. But as I said earlier it's all done and theorizing as to what might have been is pointless.

Hamilton's fastest medium tyre lap was on his second lap on them tyres (First proper flying lap) and was 0.034 slower than what he managed to on his 28th lap on his soft tyres when he had more fuel onboard.

Rosberg fastest lap was 1.656 faster and this is someone who would have had been behind Lewis on track position while also having to make tyres last longer while not being new like Lewis would have luxury of. That fastest lap from Rosberg was 0.884 faster than second fastest lap by Ricciardo too. It would have also been interesting if Lewis just had Softs instead of Mediums and never pitted again like Fernando, I think likely he would have been better at keeping Daniel behind and passing Fernando too.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am arguing his strategy was compromised with medium tyres being chosen, I think he would have much better chance of getting ahead of Fernando given pace advantage of the car if they chose Softs. You were also saying that Nico would finish ahead of Lewis if he was pitted for Softs too. You have yet to prove your point, I think I have done my bit.

No it wasn't read what @jtv90069 just said at the end of his post that was what MGP were going for as I've said all along and in great detail my first post to you. If you want to be a brick wall that's fine, I've taken into consideration your idea people and myself have shown you what it's skewed. If there is some great upheaval from MGP toward Hamilton this weekend ask them why then can't prevent a fuel leak from happening that any tune up garage could prevent?

However, the strategy game isn't something I really see needing to be questioned.

I proved it already Lewis would have had a third pit stop that would have come after Nico's third pitstop. Nico pitted on lap 57 so this means Lewis if the team changed strategy would have pitted a few laps later. It would have been close to the end and the fall off rate of Nico's tires would have been minimal considering he pulled the fastest lap on lap 64 so chances are he would have closed the gap to Lewis and probably come out ahead or be fighting with him and we'd still be in the same boat.

 

[Greycap]

And that's why I stay away from the Autosport forums as much as possible. It's a hotbed of fanboyism and double standards.

In this sentence you could easily replace "Autosport forums" with "GTPlanet F1 threads" and be more right than ever before or probably ever afterwards. I seriously wonder why I've wandered here again because for the most part the level of intelligence around here isn't much different from a couple of stone age people whacking each other with a giant wooden club and shouting "I'm right and you're wrong and that's a fact because I'm always right".

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No it wasn't read what @jtv90069 just said at the end of his post that was what MGP were going for as I've said all along and in great detail my first post to you. If you want to be a brick wall that's fine, I've taken into consideration your idea people and myself have shown you what it's skewed. If there is some great upheaval from MGP toward Hamilton this weekend ask them why then can't prevent a fuel leak from happening that any tune up garage could prevent?

However, the strategy game isn't something I really see needing to be questioned.

I proved it already Lewis would have had a third pit stop that would have come after Nico's third pitstop. Nico pitted on lap 57 so this means Lewis if the team changed strategy would have pitted a few laps later. It would have been close to the end and the fall off rate of Nico's tires would have been minimal considering he pulled the fastest lap on lap 64 so chances are he would have closed the gap to Lewis and probably come out ahead or be fighting with him and we'd still be in the same boat.

Yes I read what he said and two people being wrong agreeing with each other does not make me wrong.

I can see you are trying to be a brick wall, very simple stuff I'm saying to you. Hopefully you will understand sooner rather than later.

Hamilton would be ahead on track and fresher soft tyres and have lead call. If Nico couldn't close gap much to him when Lewis on mediums so what chance would he have had if Lewis was on soft tyres.

 

[dhandeh]

WTF does this have to do with Formula 1?

When you have a boring race like today, the only thing left is to do is partake in a internet forum pissing contest.

 

[mustafur]

When you have a boring race like today, the only thing left is to do is partake in a internet forum pissing contest.

boring race LOL.

 

[jtv90069]

Yes I read what he said and two people being wrong agreeing with each other does not make me wrong.

I can see you are trying to be a brick wall, very simple stuff I'm saying to you. Hopefully you will understand sooner rather than later.

Hamilton would be ahead on track and fresher soft tyres and have lead call. If Nico couldn't close gap much to him when Lewis on mediums so what chance would he have had if Lewis was on soft tyres.

How am I wrong?
I understand what you have been saying, and with 20/20 hindsight Mercedes possibly would have put mediums on again and told him to go hard for 15/16 laps and then done the same again to finish the race. Unfortunately for them they do not have this ability, and did not expect things to go exactly as they did.

 

[chromatic9]

I find it ridiculous Rosberg was asking for Hamilton to let him past. He wasn't anywhere near Hamilton, he wasn't being held up. If Hamilton was to let him past even for the 1 second it would have cost him a podium. Pit lane to podium, enough said. An amazing pass on the Toro Rosso. Solid drive from Alonso, and Ricciardo once again proving he's a top driver, even with fresher tyres it's never going to be easy to overtake drivers of the calibre of Alonso and Hamilton. One of the best races of the season so far.

The team told Nico that Lewis will be moving over and later Nico asked how come he isn't.

I just browsed the last few pags and saw WALLS of text. Won't even bother reading them. My quick notes:
Ricciardo - Great race, he really has no problems in dealing with WDC guys, this kid is, besides looking a great person, a great driver. I am impressed
Alonso - DOTD, by far. What he did borders on the unbelievable.
Hamilton - rookie mistake at the beggining (come on Ham, you didn't do the warm up lap, use your brain and think what are the consequences of that) but was very lucky to survive it. And he was again very lucky throughout the race, up to the end, when he met the greatest F1 driver in active duty with shot tyres but no intention to pit. His blocking move on Nico is clearly within his right, as it was the refusal to let him by a few laps before. Hamilton saved the day, but by no means was his driving something to remember.

Yes, Lewis made a poor error there. I think he needs to drive much smarter to win the championship and its a fair comment. I liked how took some initiative and went a few laps longer despite the team calling him in. probably a key move in the race to stay ahead of Rosberg. I must note I only watched BBC highlights so it was hard to judge if staying out or even how long he did stay out but if he did then yes to me thats a great and promising move by Lewis. A few races back he should've done the same thing, but because I'm English this could be considered vitriol on gtp.

Anyway, a great and memorable race, funny how some of us opened up the thread theorizing how recent years weren't on the memory. Surely this will. Again as pointed before out in 2008, rain level was key and maybe here too.

Well done to Ricciardo with another super drive.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Lewis Hamilton is seriously the Liquid Snake of F1 racing.

"Not yet Nico! It's not over yet!!"

 

[Saidur_Ali]

How am I wrong?
I understand what you have been saying, and with 20/20 hindsight Mercedes possibly would have put mediums on again and told him to go hard for 15/16 laps and then done the same again to finish the race. Unfortunately for them they do not have this ability, and did not expect things to go exactly as they did.

I corrected you in my last reply to you for starters. In hindsight I very much doubt they would deliberately put Lewis on mediums again given how close Nico got to beating him when Lewis was lead car with less laps to do on soft tyres if they decided to use same strategy on both cars.

 

[jtv90069]

I corrected you in my last reply to you for starters. In hindsight I very much doubt they would deliberately put Lewis on mediums again given how close Nico got to beating him when Lewis was lead car with less laps to do on soft tyres if they decided to use same strategy on both cars.

Ahh I see, I had meant soft tyres not mediums(somehow thought tyres were hard and medium, it's getting late)
Yes, you corrected an oversight I had with the lap time, and now a slip with tyres. Yet after all this nothing has changed and it's all speculation, I don't believe Hamilton's strategy was wrong, Alonso changed his strategy and didn't play ball with expectations. If Alonso had pitted how much further down the road would Hamilton have been? If? Maybe? doesn't matter.

 

[IceMan PJN]

When you have a boring race like today, the only thing left is to do is partake in a internet forum pissing contest.

"Boring?" This is the first time I've heard it described that way. Everyone else in the world seemed happy with it.