2015 Ford Mustang - General Discussion

[Leggy1]

True, Ford aren't 'premium' enough for a GT though. Perhaps a Lincoln GT one day.

 

[Omnis]

Does Autoblog's Jonathon Ramsey remind anyone else of our own John Marine?

 

[Zenith]

The platform is not sophisticated

GT cars don't need hyper stiff composite structure bodies. That's for sports cars that want to pull high G-cornering. GT cars can be simple.

the ride quality is terrible

Can you link to a review where somebody has said this or are you just pulling this from thin air?

the interior is cheap and plasticky (even though it's an improvement on the previous model). Refinement is below what is expected for a sports coupe, let alone a GT.

Interior stuff is exactly what Eunos suggested improving. Interior trim is also completely shallow and can be changed out easily. That doesn't make the new Mustang platform a bad candidate for a GT car at all.

 

[niky]

The build quality of the Mustang over the past few years has been good enough... all that was ever needed was better interior materials and insulation.

So far, what I've been hearing is this new Mustang seems tuned for comfort more than for quick laps... criticisms about the car are mostly in regards to the handling.

So... yeah... it would make a good GT. lengthen the wheelbase maybe three to four inches, put some nicer plastics inside, give it a glass roof and a Lincoln nose and you're all set.

 

[Tornado]

Basically, the Mustang is the wrong car to become a proper, refined GT. Too much work required.

Nicer interior. More sound insulation. Wheelbase stretch. Larger greenhouse. The end.

 

[Leggy1]

@Zenith http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...d/11119417/2015-Ford-Mustang-first-drive.html

 

[Slash]

I think the ride quality on the new Mustangs is horrible in comparison to some of the old ones I've been in.

 

[Tornado]

So from nothing more than

mid-corner bumps have it bouncing uncomfortably

while taking into account

European cars have a Performance Pack as standard

You got

the ride quality is terrible

Gotcha.

 

[Omnis]

I think the ride quality on the new Mustangs is horrible in comparison to some of the old ones I've been in.

 

[Leggy1]

@Tornado Read the whole thing...

They drove a US version:

There was a lot of transmission shunt in the US-spec V8s we tried

And:

and it’s difficult to touch them accurately in a bouncing Mustang.

Also about the suspension:

if you open up the rivals on narrow, bumpy British roads, the Mustang will wonder where they went.

 

[Tornado]

@Tornado Read the whole thing...

How about you put the straws away and do so yourself first:

There was a lot of transmission shunt in the US-spec V8s we tried, but European cars should be easier to drive due to the change in limited-slip differential.

It almost sounds as if your own source doesn't really agree with you when it comes to how insurmountable it is to increase refinement for a transmission Ford wouldn't bother installing in a psuedo-luxury GT in the first place.

and it’s difficult to touch them accurately in a bouncing Mustang.

Oh no! The more stiffly sprung version of an already-sporty car rides... stiffly! What ever shall Ford do?

if you open up the rivals on narrow, bumpy British roads, the Mustang will wonder where they went.

Yes, the most important measure of any big GT car: How well it can keep up with a much smaller and lighter M-tuned BMW or 2 seat Nissan sports car over country back roads.

 

[Leggy1]

Their review was of a US spec car, not and Euro spec one, so the comments of bouncing and poor ride quality are about the softer version.

Yes, the most important measure of any big GT car: How well it can keep up with a much smaller and lighter M-tuned BMW or 2 seat Nissan sports car over country back roads.

That was about the suspension argument, suggesting that it does not ride well and cannot control body movement very well.

And their comments about refinement and the interior are in line with what I have already said.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Evo Australia:

What’s it like to drive?
Put aside any snobbery, because here is an American car that goes, stops, handles and entertains like a good European sports coupe. Around town the ride is a bit busy, but once you up the pace on a challenging road, the suspension comes into its own. Much of the drive programme was conducted on twisty and lumpen canyon roads east of Los Angeles. These roads challenged the Mustang as well as any you’ll find in Australia and didn’t offer it any places to hide. Thankfully, the GT was up to the task with direct and linear steering connected (without a great deal of feel) to a keen and stable front end. In fact, a couple of colleagues likened the eager front end to that of a well-sorted BMW coupe and they’d get no argument from me.

The rear was also stable and for the most part and got the power to the ground (via a mechanical LSD) with little trouble. Occasionally, however, if you cracked the throttle too wide with the rear suspension fully loaded, there’d be a small hop from the back and the beginnings of a small and controllable slide. The customisable stability control was relatively unobtrusive even in its most aggressive setting. With the safety net switched off, the Mustang slides and recovers naturally and honestly.



With the stability control on but in the more permissive Sport Plus mode, you could float the Mustang down the lumpy tarmac and dive into corners hard on the brakes. The brakes also deserve special mention for their feel, progression and stamina. After a fast canyon run (where average fuel economy ballooned to 19.4L/100km), the brakes got smelly and smoky but the pedal never went long and stopping power remained true. Given the sustained speeds and big stops, I’ve little doubt that the GT would cope well with the average track day.

The Coyote V8 is so smooth and linear that I ran into its 7000rpm soft-limiter the first time I wound it out – it felt like there was another 500-800rpm left in it. With that in mind, the canyon was run in third and fourth gears of the six-speed manual, as second would run out of revs in all but the tightest corners. For muscle car fans, the engine could be more vocal, but it still provided a suitable backbeat to a fast drive.

Car Magazine: [England]

What about corners? The new 2014 Mustang does do corners, right?
It certainly does, and surprisingly well, though we’re talking competent and entertaining here, rather than anything that rewrites the rulebook. The electrically assisted steering isn’t particularly quick, but it’s surprisingly precise and gives a fair idea of what the front wheels are up to. But the big news is at the back, where the Mustang gets independent rear suspension for the first time since the early-noughties SVT Cobra range-topper. It absolutely transforms the driving experience. The ride is settled and you never have to worry about mid-corner bumps deflecting you from your course.

US spec base-model cars are rather soggy, but all Brit cars come as standard with the usually-optional Performance Pack, with its stiffer suspension and limited slip diff. Of the two, the V8 feels the more serious, although its tighter damping comes at the expense of a a chunk of ride comfort. The V8 is also the only one with enough grunt to let you indulge in lazy tyre-smoking antics.

But even the four-pot looks like it could smoke its tyres for three blocks, and I suppose that’s half the battle.

Ford Mustang design: inside and out
This is a great-looking car, one with enough Mustang cues to keep aficionados happy, but strong and modern enough to stand on its own. And this time the interior looks like it cost more than five cents to put together.

It’s more overtly retro than the exterior and apart from some lower dash plastics, feels like a quality construction. Shame about the rear seat space. The back of a BMW 2-series feels positively palatial by comparison, and the Mustang’s boot (not hatch, note) has an awkward opening.

Verdict
In previous years, you had to buy into the whole Mustang heritage to justify one in Europe, and even then you had to put up with too many compromises. This time the ‘Stang is a genuine rival for cars like the BMW 2-series, VW Scirocco and Audi TT, but, sad to say, the Ecoboost is not the stand-out car in the line-up.

A 228i M Sport is roomier, matches it on price and performance, and will cost far less to run. If you can handle the extra running costs, the beguiling V8 (more rumble, more tyre smoke, more Mustang, and only £4k more) is absolutely worth stretching for.

Automobile Magazine: [USA]

What you notice most, of course, is the new suppleness with which the Mustang negotiates the corners. The wheels move up and down with a sure-footed style that feels carefully damped, and the old springy skittishness is long gone. A bit of anti-dive and anti-squat in the suspension adds a measure of control. It’s really quite something to feel this Mustang GT’s optional 40-series, 19-inch Pirelli P Zero tires soak up the undulations of the road as you feed in some steering lock, then sense the chassis rolling predictably and finally sitting down noticeably on its outside rear tire as the car carves around the corner.

The 2015 Mustang’s resilient suspension calibration makes the car feel amazingly graceful. You’re aware of the big, heavy 19-inch wheels moving up and down, of course, but never do they feel as if they’re steering the car. This car is gloriously happy on its tires.

LeftLaneNews:

More important than cabin trimmings, however, is the new chassis. For the first time in its history, the Mustang lineup will feature a fully independent rear suspension, leaving behind the traditional live axle. The new setup uses a compact multi-link arrangement with coil springs and separate dampers to optimize rear wheel placement on the road for maximum traction. While the suspension greatly improves driver's ability to manage power on bumps and during transitions, the real benefit can be felt from all the other seats as well. By essentially decoupling the two rear wheels' lateral movements, ride quality is downright supple.

The new rear suspension changed things so dramatically that it meant all the development done on previous Mustang front suspensions was now null and void. A new double-pivot front suspension, still using MacPherson struts, was developed to deal with the new conditions. All told, the new Mustang looks more like a BMW or Mercedes from underneath, with handling and ride performance to match.

These outlets are far more reputable than the telegraph. Food for thought.

 

[Zenith]

@Zenith http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring...d/11119417/2015-Ford-Mustang-first-drive.html

Ah yes, the Telegraph, my premier source for car reviews.

You're reaching pretty hard for this one.

 

[Tornado]

Their review was of a US spec car, not and Euro spec one, so the comments of bouncing and poor ride quality are about the softer version.

Wrong:

And the grip is simply eye-popping, especially from the 275/40/19 Pirelli P-Zero tyres on the rear of the V8. The car will drift sideways, but only when you want it to. Stopping is assured, with big Brembo anchors on the V8, but they are grabby at all speeds so require a sensitive foot.

That'd be the V8 Performance Package. Try again.

That was about the suspension argument, suggesting that it does not ride well

When equipped with the track performance package, like the car they tested was, I'd hope not. Would defeat the purpose otherwise, like when the 1996 Corvette's Z51 handling package was the standard suspension from 1995 and the 1996 standard suspension was a wallowy boat without the optional adaptive dampers.

cannot control body movement very well.

Compared to two cars that are several hundred pounds and at least a foot (one of which nearly two feet) shorter, as is the case with two of the rivals that sentence was directly referring to, I would be shocked if it could control body movement similarly.

And their comments about refinement and the interior are in line with what I have already said.

My kingdom for sound insulation!

 

[VXR]

British back roads are so poor, ride quality is entirely relative these days. For the mooted £33k for the V8, this makes a far more interesting car than a BMW 428i for similar money.

 

[Leggy1]

Ah yes, the Telegraph, my premier source for car reviews.

You're reaching pretty hard for this one.

It was the first review I read (in the actual newspaper), so nope just the most obvious one.

@Tornado I didn't know those were performance pack features, my mistake. I got the impression that they tested a non-performance package car.

Either way, standard suspension or not, it isn't right for a Grand Tourer. Which, along with the interior and refinement, is something to change if there will be a Mustang based GT car. There probably wont be enough demand for such a car for Ford to justify the costs of making one.

 

[Zenith]

Either way, standard suspension or not, it isn't right for a Grand Tourer.

Wrong again, look at the quotes Eunos posted from actual car magazines.

The car is long and wide and it has the same kind of suspension found on every other Grand Touring car. Changing to softer springs and dampers would be a trivial matter.

Which, along with the interior and refinement, is something to change if there will be a Mustang based GT car.

Oh my gawsh, this plastic is totally not up to par. Entire chassis ruined. We can't just change the plastics to leather or get a new dash. We need a whole 'nother car.

I also love this vague "refinement" nonsense. More like "I can't think of anything that bothers me so I'm going to pretend things like the quality of seat stitching are a make-or-break."

Be specific what about the Mustang's chassis is so "unrefined" that not even a multinational car company with billions of dollars and thousands of parts contractors could convert it into a GT car. You've been prompted for an answer to this a few times now but you've never been able to muster a real answer.

There probably wont be enough demand for such a car for Ford to justify the costs of making one.

Also, demand for GT cars? Last I checked the BMW 6, most Aston Martins, Maserati Gran Turismos, and 2 door Mercedes were doing pretty well.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Wrong again, look at the quotes Eunos posted from actual car magazines.

The car is long and wide and it has the same kind of suspension found on every other Grand Touring car. Changing to softer springs and dampers would be a trivial matter.



Oh my gawsh, this plastic is totally not up to par. Entire chassis ruined. We can't just change the plastics to leather or get a new dash. We need a whole 'nother car.

I also love this vague "refinement" nonsense. More like "I can't think of anything that bothers me so I'm going to pretend things like the quality of seat stitching are a make-or-break."

Be specific what about the Mustang's chassis is so "unrefined" that not even a multinational car company with billions of dollars and thousands of parts contractors could convert it into a GT car. You've been prompted for an answer to this a few times now but you've never been able to muster a real answer.



Also, demand for GT cars? Last I checked the BMW 6, most Aston Martins, Maserati Gran Turismos, and 2 door Mercedes were doing pretty well.

Infiniti G37/Lexus RC/BMW 4 Series/Mercedes C Coupe/CTS Coupe/Audi A5/ etc etc etc. They all sell in droves to young professionals. I suppose you have to draw a line between sports coupe and GT somewhere, but I feel like these all hover around both categories and it's a market that Ford has absolutely zero territory in. Honestly, why not make an upmarket version of the Mustang (start it around 35k) and grab a piece of the action?

As good as it is, people likely will not cross shop a 4 series/A5 with a Mustang. The name just doesn't have the prestige that these people want. But a Lincoln Mark Ten might persuade a few...

 

[Cano]

I saw it today, was on display at the Hot Wheels convention. Man is it ugly. I was hoping finally seeing it in the flesh (metal?) would maybe change my opinion on it but ew. The shade of yelllow it was presented in didn't help it at all, either.

 

[Zenith]

I saw it today, was on display at the Hot Wheels convention. Man is it ugly. I was hoping finally seeing it in the flesh (metal?) would maybe change my opinion on it but ew. The shade of yelllow it was presented in didn't help it at all, either.

"It" being the Mustang or the Shelby or the Roush?

 

[Cano]

"It" being the Mustang or the Shelby or the Roush?

Normal Mustang, it had to be one of the first public outings of the car here in Mexico. It was pretty unspectacular :/ and that nose, dear god. The rear looks okay-ish, I liked it less than I thought I'd like it wwhen I saw it live. Overall it was a great big disappointment.

 

[Slash]

I saw it today, was on display at the Hot Wheels convention. Man is it ugly. I was hoping finally seeing it in the flesh (metal?) would maybe change my opinion on it but ew. The shade of yelllow it was presented in didn't help it at all, either.

This does not give me hope. The sales will ultimately determine its success over a few years after the new shock wears off (sales will inevitably be higher than 2014) but people aren't liking it :/

 

[Cano]

This does not give me hope. The sales will ultimately determine its success over a few years after the new shock wears off (sales will inevitably be higher than 2014) but people aren't liking it :/

Don't worry, I was exceptical about it already, a lot of people were drooling over it and nerding out on it. But yes, there are more people that dislike the new Rustang than I've ever seen before.

 

[Slash]

I've never seen this much hate over a new model. If they would fix the damn bulkiness if the front end it would look a million times better. I really hope the facelifts fix that and I hope it comes fast.

 

[Omnis]

I've never seen this much hate over a new model. If they would fix the damn bulkiness if the front end it would look a million times better. I really hope the facelifts fix that and I hope it comes fast.

 

[catamount39]

Going to need salt by the train load....

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Why not a salt city?

or a Salt Cathedral?

 

[Omnis]

Because you need a grain of salt, not a grain of salt church/city.

 

[playnthru]

I wish they tested stock cars instead of modified.