2015 Ford Mustang - General Discussion

[Leonidae@MFT]

Puts it in the arena of the Z/28. The question is, what engine is the new Z/28 going to run? It probably won't be an LT7, if GM could make that engine it would already be in the Z06. Maybe the rumored DOHC?

As if Chevy would ever put such newfangled thing on any flagship model after the C4 ZR1..

 

[Blackbird.]

Copy/Pasted from Mustang6

UPDATED WITH TORQUE GRAPH:

View attachment 30670


Just found out from TopNotch @ the Ford media event taking place today:


- 526 HP
- 429 LB-FT
- 102 hp per liter
- 8250 RPM rev limiter
- 12:1 compression (93 octane)
- 87mm throttle body
- Second generation block - honed with torque plates
- Cylinder heads 6% lighter than Coyote
- Larger valves than Coyote
- 14mm lift cams
- Active exhaust valves
- Rifle drilled crankshaft
- Crankshaft represents only 15% of rotational inertia
- One-piece oil pan and windage tray
- Better flowing intake than Boss 302
- Most Power dense and powerful NA road-going engine in Ford history






UPDATED WITH TRACK VIDEO AND ENGINE PICS:

​

OFFICIAL FORD PRESS RELEASE:

526-Horsepower Ford Shelby GT350 Mustang Exceeds 100 Horsepower Per Liter with New 5.2-Liter Flat-Plane V8

• At 102 horsepower per liter, the all-new 5.2-liter V8 for Shelby GT350 Mustang and Shelby GT350R Mustang is both the most power-dense and the most powerful naturally aspirated road-going engine in Ford history
• ·All-new Ford 5.2-liter flat-plane crankshaft V8 – an engine unique to Shelby GT350 and Shelby GT350R – produces 526 horsepower and 429 lb.-ft. of torque
• With a redline of 8,250 rpm, the all-new 5.2-liter engine is the highest-revving production V8 in Ford history

Its crankshaft may be flat, but its power output is anything but “plane.”
Ford announced today the most powerful naturally aspirated road-going engine in its history. The all-new Ford 5.2-liter flat-plane crankshaft V8 will produce 526 horsepower and 429 lb.-ft. of torque in Shelby GT350 Mustang and Shelby GT350R Mustang – an engine unique to the two models set to go on sale this fall.

“The Shelby GT350 program began with a clear objective – create the most balanced, nimble and exhilarating production Mustang yet,” said Jamal Hameedi, Ford Performance chief engineer. “Every change we made to this car was driven by the functional requirements of a powerful, responsive powerplant. The high-revving, naturally aspirated 5.2-liter flat-plane V8 delivers on every target we set – high horsepower, broad torque curve, aggressive throttle response and light weight.”

The all-new 5.2-liter V8 is not only Ford’s most powerful naturally aspirated engine ever, but also its most efficient in terms of specific output. Without turbocharging or supercharging, the flat-plane crankshaft V8 produces 102 horsepower per liter of displacement. The new engine is also the highest-revving V8 in Ford history – with a redline of 8,250 rpm.

Unlike traditional V8 engines, the all-new 5.2-liter uses a flat-plane crankshaft more typically found in a Ferrari sports car or in racing applications. The design of this new engine for the Shelby GT350 was optimized using computer-aided engineering and fully digital performance simulations. Millions of intake, cam and exhaust configurations were iterated before arriving at the optimal combination.

Better engine breathing delivers optimal power

Traditional cross-plane crankshaft V8 engines attach the piston-carrying connecting rods to the crankshaft at 90-degree intervals, creating a “cross” of counterweights when viewed down the axis of the crankshaft. In the all-new Ford 5.2-liter V8, the connecting rods attach to the flat-plane crankshaft at aligned 180-degree intervals – creating what looks like a flat line of counterweights when viewed down the axis of the crankshaft.
Beyond a change in the characteristic sound of an American V8, the flat-plane crankshaft helps improve cylinder exhaust-pulse separation by allowing a firing order that alternates ignition events between the V8’s two cylinder banks. This can vastly improve engine breathing, and subsequently allow the engine to make more power.

The result in the new 5.2-liter V8 – in addition to a uniquely exotic, delicious engine note – is 526 horsepower at 7,500 rpm and 429 lb.-ft. of torque at 4,750 rpm. Even more impressive is the track-tuned flexibility of the engine’s exceptionally wide powerband. It produces 90 percent of peak torque from approximately 3,450 rpm through 7,000 rpm, and features a racetrack-friendly spread of nearly 3,000 rpm between its torque and horsepower peaks.

In both Shelby GT350 and Shelby GT350R, the all-new 5.2-liter will be paired with a six-speed manual transmission as its only gearbox option. The Tremec TR-3160 six-speed manual is specifically engineered for less mass and high-rpm application in the new Shelby Mustangs. The six-speed features a lightweight, die-cast aluminum case and clutch housing for increased overall powertrain stiffness. Gear cross-sections, the dual-mass flywheel and dual-disc clutch are all optimized for an overall reduction in inertia and weight.

Other aspects of the new 5.2-liter V8 (actual displacement is 5,163 cubic centimeters) include a slightly oversquare bore and stroke of 94x93 millimeters, and a performance-enhancing 12.0:1 compression ratio. Computer numerical control-machined cylinder heads house camshafts that develop a massive 14 millimeters of lift for both the hollow-stem intake valves and sodium-filled exhaust valves. A single, fast-acting 87-millimeter throttle body – the largest ever used for a Ford engine – feeds air to the engine, allowing for a simpler, lighter intake.

Further reducing engine weight is a unique new aluminum engine block featuring Ford’s patented plasma transferred wire arc cylinder-liner technology. This process eliminates typical heavy iron cylinder liners with an electroplate coating. The forged-steel flat-plane crankshaft is “gun drilled” to reduce total engine weight and to improve bay-to-bay cylinder breathing. A lightweight, high-capacity composite oil pan contains baffling designed for sustained high-speed cornering and hard braking.

“A new Mustang as exceptional as the Shelby GT350 deserves an equally extraordinary engine,” said Dave Pericak, director, Ford Performance. “The all-new naturally aspirated 5.2-liter V8 perfectly fits the balanced dynamics of the Shelby GT350, and we believe this new engine will become a performance legend.”

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...0-mustang.html

 

[88GTA]

Puts it in the arena of the Z/28. The question is, what engine is the new Z/28 going to run? It probably won't be an LT7, if GM could make that engine it would already be in the Z06. Maybe the rumored DOHC?

Does it matter? The 2015 Z/28 already costs $70k, or over $20k more than the GT350 will start at.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Not to mention that Camaro will significantly heavier than any Mustang. Well, maybe not lighter than automatic cabriolet GT, but still..

 

[Omnis]

Is it just me or is that voodoo engine quite small? It looks like they shrunk down the packaging.

 

[Zenith]

Is it just me or is that voodoo engine quite small? It looks like they shrunk down the packaging.

It's just you.

 

[Tornado]

Not to mention that Camaro will significantly heavier than any Mustang.

Certainly would like to hear how you came to that conclusion.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

As if Chevy would ever put such newfangled thing on any flagship model after the C4 ZR1..

No one expected Ford to do this, and by even your own rhetoric of the past they're just as archaic. Though I am starting to wonder why you slight GM even more so over the years than Ford.

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think what the car reminds me of, and what makes me want to just purely work for it alone...is old late 60s and 70s care chase movies and mainly Bullet for one. Just a louder twang but similar to the 390

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Those exhaust manifolds look absolutely tortured. I'm willing to bet a good set of long-tube equal length tuned headers will net a solid 10-20hp on this motor. It might make it sound like a Honda, but the stockers look severely compromised to produce a "Mustang" sound on the 180 crank.

Edit:

This is irrelevant, but I think it's funny that this thing is breathing through an 87mm throttle body when my 1.3 rotary breathes through twin 48mm (for a total of 96mm) chokes....which is why it gets less than 9mpg. When it's not broken. Which it is.

 

[Dennisch]

Those exhaust manifolds look absolutely tortured

I think that that is because a vital and pretty essential part runs right past that part of the engine. The steering shaft.

But that last pipe does look pretty squeezed.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I think that that is because a vital and pretty essential part runs right past that part of the engine. The steering shaft.

But that last pipe does look pretty squeezed.

I have a rough-at-best understanding of exhaust tuning harmonics, but it looks like they've done enormous iterating to get the best compromise of sound, packaging, power, and cost.

*Going left to right, with the furthest left being cylinder 1 in this case, and furthest right being cylinder 4 for the purposes of this post.*

For those that don't know, there are mainly two things going on in a exhaust manifold tube. The first is the actual pressure wave of the exhaust, which moves at the speed of sound. The second is actually the exhaust gasses, which move more slowly. When the pressure wave arrives at the end of a pipe (or, importantly, the an area of larger diameter) it reverses direction and actually travels backwards towards the source (in this case, the exhaust valve). Knowing the speed of sound, you can very precisely time this so that it arrives at the exhaust valve exactly as it opens, at a specific RPM. When this happens, the pressure wave again reverses, and combines with the new pressure wave, and creates a vacuum behind it, pulling the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder much more quickly. This is known as scavenging effect. To broaden the RPM range of this effect, you can use a series of stepped manifold sections (as seen in F1) so that you can achieve the same effect at several points in the rpm band.

Here is a stepped F1 header for reference:

You can see the effect here, keep in mind this is slowed way way down but the pressure waves appear to move very quickly. Years ago I saw a much better video of a long pipe of constant diameter where the effect was very easy to see.



Another with mixed full and slow motion:


But you get the point. Scavenging. To me, it looks like they've tried to use pipes of varying lengths but of several diameters to achieve a harmonic all at one point. If you notice, cylinder 1 and 3 (that are joined) have a somewhat similar length before they go into a slightly larger diameter secondary runner. Cylinders 2 and 4 seem to have a length that is close to twice the length of 1 and 3, but a constant diameter until the collector. So perhaps the harmonic works out to be about equal for all the cylinders. I wonder what the firing order is. I have a feeling 1 and 3 are 180* apart, as are 2 and 4.

The collector is strange, joining two presumably 180* apart primaries with an already-joined pair. I'm guessing this is what gives it more of a burble compared to a pure 4-1 or 4-2 header. A lot of disruption and break up of harmonics there, as with any 90* V8.

Whoever designed these is probably very proud of them, but the aftermarket is sure to make more power.

 

[McLaren]

Puts it in the arena of the Z/28. The question is, what engine is the new Z/28 going to run? It probably won't be an LT7, if GM could make that engine it would already be in the Z06. Maybe the rumored DOHC?

Have they confirmed it's carrying over to the next generation? If so, it may be best to compare the 350R to it then, imo. GM's engineers had to work some magic to get the current Z/28 to where it is with that less-than-ideal platform.

 

[Zenith]

I have a rough-at-best understanding of exhaust tuning harmonics, but it looks like they've done enormous iterating to get the best compromise of sound, packaging, power, and cost.

*Going left to right, with the furthest left being cylinder 1 in this case, and furthest right being cylinder 4 for the purposes of this post.*

For those that don't know, there are mainly two things going on in a exhaust manifold tube. The first is the actual pressure wave of the exhaust, which moves at the speed of sound. The second is actually the exhaust gasses, which move more slowly. When the pressure wave arrives at the end of a pipe (or, importantly, the an area of larger diameter) it reverses direction and actually travels backwards towards the source (in this case, the exhaust valve). Knowing the speed of sound, you can very precisely time this so that it arrives at the exhaust valve exactly as it opens, at a specific RPM. When this happens, the pressure wave again reverses, and combines with the new pressure wave, and creates a vacuum behind it, pulling the exhaust gasses out of the cylinder much more quickly. This is known as scavenging effect. To broaden the RPM range of this effect, you can use a series of stepped manifold sections (as seen in F1) so that you can achieve the same effect at several points in the rpm band.

Here is a stepped F1 header for reference:

You can see the effect here, keep in mind this is slowed way way down but the pressure waves appear to move very quickly. Years ago I saw a much better video of a long pipe of constant diameter where the effect was very easy to see.



Another with mixed full and slow motion:


But you get the point. Scavenging. To me, it looks like they've tried to use pipes of varying lengths but of several diameters to achieve a harmonic all at one point. If you notice, cylinder 1 and 3 (that are joined) have a somewhat similar length before they go into a slightly larger diameter secondary runner. Cylinders 2 and 4 seem to have a length that is close to twice the length of 1 and 3, but a constant diameter until the collector. So perhaps the harmonic works out to be about equal for all the cylinders. I wonder what the firing order is. I have a feeling 1 and 3 are 180* apart, as are 2 and 4.

The collector is strange, joining two presumably 180* apart primaries with an already-joined pair. I'm guessing this is what gives it more of a burble compared to a pure 4-1 or 4-2 header. A lot of disruption and break up of harmonics there, as with any 90* V8.

Whoever designed these is probably very proud of them, but the aftermarket is sure to make more power.

I'm guessing it's the best with what could be done with space and emissions restrictions.

The reason for the weird lengths is resonance tuning, which increases the scavenging effect. This uses the low pressure rarefaction pulse to help flow during the overlap between intake and exhaust valve.

Longer tubes will resonate at lower frequencies, so that's likely the reason you see two tubes being significantly longer than the other two.

It's certainly a big deal to see this tech on a road car... Most people don't even do this in the aftermarket. You'll have to search if you want a set of headers that have tuned lengths at all.

 

[Blackbird.]

I'm guessing it's the best with what could be done with space and emissions restrictions.

The reason for the weird lengths is resonance tuning, which increases the scavenging effect. This uses the low pressure rarefaction pulse to help flow during the overlap between intake and exhaust valve.

Longer tubes will resonate at lower frequencies, so that's likely the reason you see two tubes being significantly longer than the other two.

It's certainly a big deal to see this tech on a road car... Most people don't even do this in the aftermarket. You'll have to search if you want a set of headers that have tuned lengths at all.

This car is certainly a good deal at ~$48k.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I'm guessing it's the best with what could be done with space and emissions restrictions.

The reason for the weird lengths is resonance tuning, which increases the scavenging effect. This uses the low pressure rarefaction pulse to help flow during the overlap between intake and exhaust valve.

Longer tubes will resonate at lower frequencies, so that's likely the reason you see two tubes being significantly longer than the other two.

It's certainly a big deal to see this tech on a road car... Most people don't even do this in the aftermarket. You'll have to search if you want a set of headers that have tuned lengths at all.

Isn't that what I said?

I don't believe I've seen factory exhaust manifolds with stepped diameters like these appear to have. This allows the resonant harmonic to work at multiple RPM points. It could also be done for other reasons, this is just my speculation.

Mazda now uses tuned long tube manifolds in all of their skyactiv engines.

Unlike the Ford though, Mazda uses a tuned equal length 4-2-1 design.

Spoiler: More Header Pr0n

Defined autoworks makes this absurd header for the Mazda 20b engine.

Keep in mind the engine this was attached to made more than 500bhp from a naturally aspirated 2 liter capacity in a road legal car.

 

[GTboyz]

the sound is amazing.

 

[Slash]

Those exhaust manifolds look absolutely tortured. I'm willing to bet a good set of long-tube equal length tuned headers will net a solid 10-20hp on this motor. It might make it sound like a Honda, but the stockers look severely compromised to produce a "Mustang" sound on the 180 crank.

Exhaust flow as always been Ford's weak point. Remember when these came on Fords at one time performance engine?

Taking those off and putting a set of long tubes really made a world of difference.

Let's not forget the tiny valves and absolutely horrendously small exhaust ports. But even still. Exhaust was always the weak point.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I hope somebody offers an exhaust that approximates this sound:





It's not the sort of blaring, F1-esque noise most people associate with the F355-458. It has some muscle to it, especially through the mid range, yet it's still a screamer. I could see that noise from a Mustang and not be concerned. The Ferrari is much further oversquare (85mm bore 75mm stroke vs 94mm x 92.7mm for the 'stang) so I don't think it would sound quite as good, but it is turning more RPM....so who knows.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Car sounds good as is right now, and in the higher rev ranges the flat plane crank V8s end up sounding like cross planes put through the wringer too just a little less throaty, but a factory high end built cross or flat all end up sound like race car engines to me just not with straight pipes.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Car sounds good as is right now, and in the higher rev ranges the flat plane crank V8s end up sounding like cross planes put through the wringer too just a little less throaty, but a factory high end built cross or flat all end up sound like race car engines to me just not with straight pipes.

To my ears, cross plane V8's have a much richer and soulful sound. Only a V12 has a more broad vocal range (best exemplified by the Bizzarrini/Lamborghini V12) Flat plane V8's sound very dry, blarey, and....well...flat. Flat plane V8's also sound really bad at low RPM. Cross plane V8's sound good absolutely everywhere. Probably the best V8 sound ever:

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I agree, but at peak where I only care about how my performance car sounds because that's the portion I spent all that money for the flat vs cross is non-existent in my eyes (ears in this case). Both at full tilt sound on par, with as I said one being a bit deeper but at let's same equivalent frequency.

I mean V12s to me sound very bland and not worth the huff at lower ranges too and even mid range to me, but I can't deny they count where it matters and that's the same for flat plane V8s.

 

[Slash]

2 minutes of nothing but GT350 exhaust. Straight from Ford.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

2 minutes of nothing but GT350 exhaust. Straight from Ford.

Who needs music when Ford can provide all the engine noise you want? I have to say, the Shelby is an incredible car all things considered. At the price it sells, it offers plenty of good things for its owner. Good sound, good power, good handling (hey, the reworked rear suspension helps). The Camaro will have a hard time trying to match that, I have to admit.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Who needs music when Ford can provide all the engine noise you want? I have to say, the Shelby is an incredible car all things considered. At the price it sells, it offers plenty of good things for its owner. Good sound, good power, good handling (hey, the reworked rear suspension helps). The Camaro will have a hard time trying to match that, I have to admit.

How so? If anything people will have a hard choice deciding because how closely both will be as far as power and price it would seem. Handling is something we'll have to wait and see. If anything the 1LE or a drop in price for the Z/28 will be used to sell against this.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

How so? If anything people will have a hard choice deciding because how closely both will be as far as power and price it would seem. Handling is something we'll have to wait and see. If anything the 1LE or a drop in price for the Z/28 will be used to sell against this.

Well, you do have a point. I did forget about the similarities in price and perfomance between the two. I guess we will have to wait for more conclusive reviews of both versions (by versions I mean the Z/28 and/or the 1LE and the Shelby) to see who does stand out. It all depends on how will Chevrolet tackle this.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well, you do have a point. I did forget about the similarities in price and perfomance between the two. I guess we will have to wait for more conclusive reviews of both versions (by versions I mean the Z/28 and/or the 1LE and the Shelby) to see who does stand out. It all depends on how will Chevrolet tackle this.

Well Chevy was the one at the top to start with, they offered a great system for both the Z/28 and the 1LE and on top of that both were different systems to do track racing with. The problem is price, if this is targeted at the Z/28 then the price wars have been won by Ford (and in all purposes it does seem to be Z/28 territory).

The thing is the 1LE was a direct competitor to the 302 which is under a good amount I'd say to this 350/350R thus the 1LE is relatively under this figurative performance line as well. Thus leaving the Z/28 and ZL1, but the ZL1 is much more powerful and more centered to what was the GT500 is for Ford, and most likely not equivalent to the 350 either. Thus only leaving the Z/28. Where I already see Ford beating the outgoing Camaro in ride comfort off the track, the Z/28 had a Formula 1 esque old school setup which is great for track times but horrid for regular daily driving.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Well Chevy was the one at the top to start with, they offered a great system for both the Z/28 and the 1LE and on top of that both were different systems to do track racing with. The problem is price, if this is targeted at the Z/28 then the price wars have been won by Ford (and in all purposes it does seem to be Z/28 territory).

The thing is the 1LE was a direct competitor to the 302 which is under a good amount I'd say to this 350/350R thus the 1LE is relatively under this figurative performance line as well. Thus leaving the Z/28 and ZL1, but the ZL1 is much more powerful and more centered to was the GT500 is for Ford thus most likely not equivalent to the 350 either. Thus only leaving the Z/28. Where I already see Ford beating the outgoing Camaro is ride comfort off the track, the Z/28 had a Formula 1 esque old school setup which is great for track times but horrid for regular daily driving.

Hard to add anything of my own to that, Ford did price the GT350 quite agressively compared to all the perfomance versions of the Camaro. The closest rivals possible (the Z/28 and the 1LE) are above (Z/28) or below (1LE) the line of the price-perfomance ratio of the Shelby. And if they Shelby can deliver a setup that can work decently well both on and off the track, unless the Z/28 changes its own, it'll be a victory for the Mustang, I think.

 

[Slash]

Another one on the street.