2015 Ford Mustang - General Discussion

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Yeah but the difference being those were performance models. Most standard V6s back then severely lacked what you'd call performance. In my book the V6 in this is standard these days as far as power output and actual car performance. There's been a big leap. Remember the days when a v8 car only had 300hp? Or less?
 
It was only 10 years before my birth. Also, 220-240bhp out of 4.6 wasn't exactly ground shaking either.
 
It was only 10 years before my birth. Also, 220-240bhp out of 4.6 wasn't exactly ground shaking either.
Up until aftermarket came around for the 4.6 and the new Coyote, I never liked them. Still don't really. I always viewed them as a downgrade. The only thing they gained was a few horsepower easily coxable out of a 302 if they wanted. I get it was new tech at the time but it was bigger, bulkier , much heavier and tougher to work on for a long time were as anyone can hop a 302 if you got a ratchet set and $50.
 
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Modern car manufacturers have to deal with a lot more design requirements than just power per dollar, power per weight, or power per size. The market has also demanded wider cars that are easier to fit big engines into. This is why companies have been moving to DOHC on V engines.
 
About the V6 Mustangs:

The 2011- V6 Mustangs sound great! My grandma got one to 120mph in Nevada once, and on a test drive of a convertible '14 Mustang with my mom driving, we got up to 60mph very easily. My favorite part was the sound - it reminded me of a 350/370Z and the GT-R. I still have yet to drive or ride in a new 5.0, but I rode in a '10 with a 4.6 and it was alright.


I can't wait to start seeing these in dealerships and on the road. Are the 5.0L and 3.7L engines from the last gen getting an update?
 
About the V6 Mustangs:

The 2011- V6 Mustangs sound great! My grandma got one to 120mph in Nevada once, and on a test drive of a convertible '14 Mustang with my mom driving, we got up to 60mph very easily. My favorite part was the sound - it reminded me of a 350/370Z and the GT-R. I still have yet to drive or ride in a new 5.0, but I rode in a '10 with a 4.6 and it was alright.


I can't wait to start seeing these in dealerships and on the road. Are the 5.0L and 3.7L engines from the last gen getting an update?
V6 Mustangs sound great. My uncle's broke ass friend has one.
 
Older V6s sounded like vacuum cleaners. The current 3.7 is a lovely sounding engine (depending on the car... it sounds better in the 'Stang and the CX9 than in the Explorer), but comparing it to the V8 is like comparing light rock to Metallica.

I like the motor, but again, if you have the budget, there's no reason not to get the V8.
 
Older V6s sounded like vacuum cleaners. The current 3.7 is a lovely sounding engine (depending on the car... it sounds better in the 'Stang and the CX9 than in the Explorer), but comparing it to the V8 is like comparing light rock to Metallica.

I like the motor, but again, if you have the budget, there's no reason not to get the V8.
See I disagree. I feel the old V6's sound like tractors.


I agree there is no reason not to get the V8 if you have the money.
 
Modern car manufacturers have to deal with a lot more design requirements than just power per dollar, power per weight, or power per size. The market has also demanded wider cars that are easier to fit big engines into. This is why companies have been moving to DOHC on V engines.
Yep NVH, MPG and emissions and a ton of more requirements. Ford going to the modular was a downstep until '99 and then it just took off.
 
Yep NVH, MPG and emissions and a ton of more requirements. Ford going to the modular was a downstep until '99 and then it just took off.

I'm morally obligated to post this picture every time that god forsaken motor is mentioned.

FordSBModular.jpg
 
IMG_5356.jpg




I like that one better. A bit clearer.

Yep NVH, MPG and emissions and a ton of more requirements. Ford going to the modular was a downstep until '99 and then it just took off.

I don't know if that's completely the case. Remember, the 302 was used in production vehicles all the way into the 2000's. I think '01 or '02 was it's last year in Explorers. Everything slowly started switching over. The 4.6L is in it's infancy when you compare it the legacy the Windsor engines have had. That said, I have no doubt in my mind that in the future the modular engines will be considered just as great, given the recent advancements with the 5.0L Coyote (which holds the 5.0L name for Ford). The Windsors, at least when they came out, were trash when you compared them to some of the engines Ford was making at the time. In fact, no one really wanted one until aftermarket really came about in the 1990's. Now, everyone's got one. Before hand, almost everyone swapped in big blocks. That was how you got cheap power back then.


Meh 4.6 DOHCs are good engines huge physical size aside. I have seen some serious HP out of them.

I've seen serious power out of both of them, via Windsor engines in general. I can't think of a single advantage the 4.6L has over the 302 other than it might be able to rev a tad big higher. Though I'm not sure I'd call that an advantage, as it more or less depends on what you are using the engine for. In stock form, it does have a broader power band though, that's for sure, but it lacks the low end punch the previous engines provided, which hurt daily driveability. I'd say the 351W has more power potential for cheaper. From what I've heard, the 4.6L is only good for about 550-600 whp, same as the 302, or at least more or less. Now, that's SAFE, whp. That does not mean they cannot make more, because that simply isn't the case. The general consensus is that the 351W can go to about 800 (block casting depending). Same thing applies with that engine.

The 4.6L is an all around pig. The 5.0 Modular corrected a lot of this. When you compare a 4.6L, even just an SOHC motor, it's at a disadvantage. The 302 will forever be easier for anyone to wrench on. And the fact that it's smaller gives it the advantage of being able to be stuffed in a lot more things it wasn't intended for :mischievous:
 
Stock vs stock, the DOHC 4.6 has better power and better fuel economy than the 302, although the DOHC 4.6 requires premium fuel.

And a Fatty McGee chassis built around it.

And 4 new camshafts if you want to upgrade it.

And even more power to lug the fat engine and the consequently fat chassis around.

And then it doesn't even have the good grace to rev higher than an OHV engine like a good OHC engine should.

30 years of technological development to make that pig...
 
I didn't say it was better in every way, just that stock vs. stock, it makes more power with better fuel economy. The chassis part is all about the choices Ford made on how to deploy it, but it's only tangentially related to the engine itself.
 
I didn't say it was better in every way, just that stock vs. stock, it makes more power with better fuel economy. The chassis part is all about the choices Ford made on how to deploy it, but it's only tangentially related to the engine itself.

I'm venting, don't mind me. ;)
 
Stock for stock, better power...


That's debatable.


I won't say the 4.6L doesn't have more power, but so did the 302 in some applications. They are pretty much even in that regard, other than the fact the 4.6L, as I previously mentioned has a broader power band and higher redline, where as the 302 has more of a punch under 4,000rpm, better suited for daily driving. Admittedly though, the 302 in most standard configurations has less power, at least via carburetor (and non performance applications). EFI was much closer, if not the same rating or better when the 4.6L 2V came out. I believe the best power output for an EFI 302 HO was about 230, and the 4.6L's first year (non Cobra) was 215. The Boss 302 in 1969/1970 was the best factory 302 (other than Saleens etc, but those aren't technically factory, more like dealer options) with an underrated 290hp, which has been proven to be around 350ish, or 300 (roughly) at the wheels. The 4.6L later went on to much much more power, 300 being it's best with a different head design. So overall I'd say stock for stock they are pretty evenly matched.


...and better fuel economy than the 302.

Bogus. I've seen 302's crest 32mpg with the right driving and fresh engines in Bronco's of all vehicles. Neither engine are particularly good, most 302's on average get about 14-17, and in big trucks, about 12-14. I've never heard of a 4.6L doing much better than that.

I didn't say it was better in every way, just that stock vs. stock, it makes more power with better fuel economy. The chassis part is all about the choices Ford made on how to deploy it, but it's only tangentially related to the engine itself.

Read above. The chassis design is a very big part of potential fuel economy, which is why you see many more aerodynamic vehicles on the road today, than say in 1980.



And a Fatty McGee chassis built around it.

This. The 1994 Mustang was much heavier than the comparable Fox, not to mention a lot larger.




And 4 new camshafts if you want to upgrade it.

And more money. 4 camshafts = 4 times the money you have to dish out for what can only be described as a mild horsepower/torque gain if you stick with stock valve springs. You will see much more improvement with a single camshaft on a 302, though their stock springs aren't the strongest either. For example, a mild performance cam for a 302 costs $150 to maybe $200. at most, maybe $240. Hell, you can get a completely custom grind for about $180. A 4 cam set from Steeda on a DOHC 4.6L costs a whopping $1,242. For that kind of money, you are better off building a budget 331/347 stroker out of a 302 and laying down 350whp instead of dumping a ton of money into a 4.6L P.I.G.

Seriously though. Even just valve springs for a DOHC 4.6L cost nearly $70 more. Everything is more expensive. It's been that way for a long time. I won't deny they have power potential, I've seen what they can do, but dollar for dollar, it is much more cost effective to build a 302 than to fart around with a 4.6L if you are on a budget.

I'd even put money into a 351M before a 4.6L. Yeah, I went there.

And even more power to lug the fat engine and the consequently fat chassis around.

:lol: So true.

And then it doesn't even have the good grace to rev higher than an OHV engine like a good OHC engine should.

Again, very true.

30 years of technological development to make that pig...

And then the 302 stayed in production for another 10 years while Ford was busy fixing the turd they just released called the Modular motor :lol:


Not to mention the fact the 302 sounds MUCH more sexier.
 
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We're talking about the DOHC 4.6, not the SOHC 4.6. The DOHC 4.6 was around 280 HP when introduced. Mileage figures for the Lincoln Mark VIII (16/23) are better than the EFI 302 Mustang (15/22), both in 1993 per fueleconomy.gov.

Granted, the Mark VIII is a more aerodynamic chassis (though I'd bet that the BSFC for the DOHC 4.6 is better... remember that the 4.6 is making more than 25% more power).
 
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We're talking about the DOHC 4.6, not the SOHC 4.6. The DOHC 4.6 was around 280 HP when introduced. Mileage figures for the Lincoln Mark VIII are better than the EFI 302 Mustang.

I will grant you that it may be more because of aerodynamics than because of the characteristics of the engine, but it's at least somewhat credible that the fuel efficiency is significantly better between the newer design and possibly higher compression.

280hp still doesn't top the best factory 302. But I get your point. Like I said, they are all pretty even as far as performance. The truck engines just like the 302 had less power. It was application depending. I still don't think they were all that fuel efficient. Higher compression also depends on the engine itself. Some old leaded 60s motors ran as high as 11:1 or even 12:1 (IIRC, may be slightly off). Most stock were anywhere from 8:1 to 9.5:1 Though I find higher compression engines tend to burn cleaner.
 
I have the top 302W HP wise in the EFI era (94-95 SVT Cobra 240hp) and stock vs stock it would and has been absolutely murdered by 4.6 DOHC cobras. There isn't even a comparo. The old school BOSS 302 Windsor is apples to oranges vs the EFI cars IMHO. We are talking in the EFI era of cars as a factory option. Hell My 302 makes around the same RWHP as the PI 4.6 2v cars.

Just look at NMRAs factory stock racing class where Windsor foxes aren't even competitive anymore vs the Mach1s
 
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