2015 Formula 1 Grande Premio Petrobras do Brasil

[TenEightyOne]

If he wants to match senna then he has to start taking his team mates out.

I think that kind of psycopathic disregard for the people around you is a thing of the past. I hope so, at least.

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

I think that kind of psycopathic disregard for the people around you is a thing of the past. I hope so, at least.

Nah we haven't got rid of Maldonado or Hulk just yet.

 

[NOVOCAINE]

Nah we haven't got rid of Maldonado or Hulk just yet.

Let's not be too hard on Hulkenberg just yet. He's had a tough second half to the season, but he doesn't really have any prior history of being a mobile wrecking ball! Maldonado'h on the other hand...

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

Let's not be too hard on Hulkenberg just yet. He's had a tough second half to the season, but he doesn't really have any prior history of being a mobile wrecking ball! Maldonado'h on the other hand...

He took out a couple of cars at Le Mans......

 

[NOVOCAINE]

He took out a couple of cars at Le Mans......

Ah. Carry on!

 

[Samus]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...n-between-my-overtakes-and-hamilton-struggle/

Max Verstappen thinks it is unfair to contrast his overtaking moves in the Brazilian Grand Prix with the struggles that Lewis Hamilton had against teammate Nico Rosberg.

While Verstappen was the star of the show – and his efforts included a breathtaking move on Sergio Perez - Hamilton complained afterwards that he got stuck behind Rosberg as it was 'impossible' to overtake.

The different experiences of the two drivers triggered some debate on social media, but Verstappen was adamant that the circumstances of his charging drive were very different to what Hamilton faced fighting an identical car.

"With a Mercedes, maybe they have problems when they are very close to each other," explained the Toro Rosso driver.

"Plus, their speed is higher, and they both had good pace, so maybe it is more difficult for them.

"I know when the Toro Rossos are behind each other it is difficult to get past, so if you have the same type of car it is very hard."

Different strengths

Verstappen believes that the key to allowing overtaking in F1 is that the two cars battling each have strengths in different areas.

"We have very good cornering speed, so if we are behind a Lotus, Sauber or Force India we catch up in the fast corners, even when we are behind," he said. "So that is different for sure.

"For them [Mercedes], it is equal everywhere – on the corners and the straights. When your car is exactly the same as your teammate and you are behind, it is very tough.

"And when you are behind, you lose a lot in the fast corners. So I can understand Lewis saying that."

As I said, Lewis was just beaten by the better driver on the weekend but he definitely also had a point, even if he probably didn't describe it in the best manner.

 

[mustafur]

That Verstappen article is pretty much exactly what I said.

 

[niky]

I'm fine with Hamilton winning I suppose as a fan, but then again it's not very fun unless you have milestones, such as him winning the WDC. Sure I knew (or was safely sure) he'd do it this year after some point, but when is the question and that's why for me I kept somewhat enjoying, but then he wins it and then the rest is just filler at that point.

As I said: I blame Ron Dennis.

Without a strong second team with a real shot of winning, like, say, McLaren... there's been no joy in the last few seasons.

McLaren and Ferrari gave us a show in Lewis' first few seasons, with cars that were competitive with each other and with strengths in different areas. After that, it was one odd blowout season for Brawn (who might actually still have lost if they only had one good competitor, given how poorly they fared in the development race over the second half of the season) and then a Red Bull lockout... but during that lock-out, at least McLaren and Alonso (no, not Ferrari... just Alonso... ) gave us some hope of people catching up.

Here, we have a Red Bull hampered by engine issues, through no fault of their own, and a McLaren that went from being worst of the Mercedes runners to being the only team brave enough to gamble on Honda's unproven engine. Like: What.the.hell.

Williams has taken the role of second best Merc team, but they don't have the money to outdevelop a factory team. Without a strong McLaren, there has been no hope for a genuine challenge to Mercedes these past two seasons.

If Honda can sort things out, yay. I doubt they will. Not at least for another half season. Red Bull next year is the big question mark. You can have the most excellent car in the world, but if it doesn't have an engine, you're not going to challenge for wins.

 

[daan]

As I said: I blame Ron Dennis.

He's even got Eric doing some Ronspeak

 

[niky]

He's even got Eric doing some Ronspeak

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

Someone needs to impose a dictionary ban before interviews at mclaren.

 

[GTPorsche]

He's not even saying anything new in regards to their car this season.

High speeds have always been their weakness with that Honda PU.

 

[daan]

Perhaps he meant to say that the car has the performance of an envelope. Stick a stamp on it and it'll get to the end quicker via the postal service.

 

[GTP_Ingram]

As I said: I blame Ron Dennis.

Without a strong second team with a real shot of winning, like, say, McLaren... there's been no joy in the last few seasons.

McLaren and Ferrari gave us a show in Lewis' first few seasons, with cars that were competitive with each other and with strengths in different areas. After that, it was one odd blowout season for Brawn (who might actually still have lost if they only had one good competitor, given how poorly they fared in the development race over the second half of the season) and then a Red Bull lockout... but during that lock-out, at least McLaren and Alonso (no, not Ferrari... just Alonso... ) gave us some hope of people catching up.

Here, we have a Red Bull hampered by engine issues, through no fault of their own, and a McLaren that went from being worst of the Mercedes runners to being the only team brave enough to gamble on Honda's unproven engine. Like: What.the.hell.

Williams has taken the role of second best Merc team, but they don't have the money to outdevelop a factory team. Without a strong McLaren, there has been no hope for a genuine challenge to Mercedes these past two seasons.

If Honda can sort things out, yay. I doubt they will. Not at least for another half season. Red Bull next year is the big question mark. You can have the most excellent car in the world, but if it doesn't have an engine, you're not going to challenge for wins.

I'd be quite interested to see what Torro Rosso do next year too. Even a year-old Ferrari engine (their likely choice for 2016) will likely be more competitive than a current Renault for 2015, Verstappen and Sainz will each have a year's worth of experience, and there have been times this year where I've felt their car is at least as good as the Red Bull - if not in aero efficiency, almost certainly in terms of the chassis.

 

[NOVOCAINE]

I'd be quite interested to see what Torro Rosso do next year too. Even a year-old Ferrari engine (their likely choice for 2016) will likely be more competitive than a current Renault for 2015, Verstappen and Sainz will each have a year's worth of experience, and there have been times this year where I've felt their car is at least as good as the Red Bull - if not in aero efficiency, almost certainly in terms of the chassis.

Question is are Toro Rosso capable of building such a competitive machine two years in a row? My gut feeling says no. When a smaller team is having such a good season they often put more manpower and resources than normal, into further developing that years car; in order to keep their position. The downside to this is that their following season usually suffers as a result, because less development work went into the new car.

 

[ukfan758]

The state of F1.

179 posts in this thread, roughly 20 are from during the race.

I was wondering why it was so silent during the race but now everyone starts talking literally the moment the race ended.

 

[Samus]

From what I remember most of the time mid-race chatter in threads amounted to little more than commentary anyway, several people usually posting the same thing at the same time.

"Bottas Out!"
"Damn, Bottas has crashed"
"That's Bottas out"
"End of the race for Bottas"

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Question is are Toro Rosso capable of building such a competitive machine two years in a row? My gut feeling says no. When a smaller team is having such a good season they often put more manpower and resources than normal, into further developing that years car; in order to keep their position. The downside to this is that their following season usually suffers as a result, because less development work went into the new car.

They're not a normal smaller team, and the Toro Rosso the year prior wasn't bad and actually seems bound to finish the same spot in the constructor championship as it did last year. The issue that hamper Toro Rosso in the past few years from showing it's utmost potential on the track is break downs that no matter the engine era they have struggles. And it's not just engines but other parts of the car that have been shown to fail. James Key is a great design leader I'd say when you analyze what he's done for the more smaller independent teams like working on the more faster Saubers in the past five years 10-12. Also like RBR, STR are known more for transition evolution of cars as seasons go by, thus what ever was powerful last season goes toward next season and just gets further and further developed rather than a radical rewrite.

I'd say Toro Rosso of 2010 or 2011 is more what you seem to be explaining, but the current toro rosso design team is strong, and with that more consistent as the past few years have shown, the engine this year and last year is what stopped them from being a consistent running top mid-field team.

I think with the Ferrari engine next year, 2015 spec or 16, they'll be very strong.

 

[NOVOCAINE]

They're not a normal smaller team, and the Toro Rosso the year prior wasn't bad and actually seems bound to finish the same spot in the constructor championship as it did last year. The issue that hamper Toro Rosso in the past few years from showing it's utmost potential on the track is break downs that no matter the engine era they have struggles. And it's not just engines but other parts of the car that have been shown to fail. James Key is a great design leader I'd say when you analyze what he's done for the more smaller independent teams like working on the more faster Saubers in the past five years 10-12. Also like RBR, STR are known more for transition evolution of cars as seasons go by, thus what ever was powerful last season goes toward next season and just gets further and further developed rather than a radical rewrite.

I'd say Toro Rosso of 2010 or 2011 is more what you seem to be explaining, but the current toro rosso design team is strong, and with that more consistent as the past few years have shown, the engine this year and last year is what stopped them from being a consistent running top mid-field team.

I think with the Ferrari engine next year, 2015 spec or 16, they'll be very strong.

Well I certainly hope so. Both drivers have been extremely competitive this year; especially Max. In fact he has two fourth places already, so who knows? With an even better car we could see them on the podium next year...

Speaking of Verstappen and Ferrari, the latter mentioned must surely be eyeing up Max as a replacement for Kimi. The Iceman has melted somewhat and I can't see him going beyond next season.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well I certainly hope so. Both drivers have been extremely competitive this year; especially Max. In fact he has two fourth places already, so who knows? With an even better car we could see them on the podium next year...

Speaking of Verstappen and Ferrari, the latter mentioned must surely be eyeing up Max as a replacement for Kimi. The Iceman has melted somewhat and I can't see him going beyond next season.

I'm sure Sainz could have done it as well, the car seems to break down more for him than it does on Max. I mean it's shades of Vergne when you compare breakdown to Daniel or Kvyat. I doubt they'll get him unless he can somehow jump ship, before RBR put him in a seat. Everyone wants to jump about Verstappen getting a seat in a higher up team, but he has claimed the antics and politics of the upper teams at this time dont interest him, and he's a super young driver in F1 with easily 15 years ahead of him. He is at the prime beginning and thus why should he care about moving into a top team so soon?

Also Horner made it clear to Ferrari and Mercedes to not bother as well. And really it doesn't matter Pascal is more likely to be seen in a Merc seat than any other newer driver. But this is off topic to Brazil really so I'll just continue the Toro Rosso developments in the appropriate thread and the driver transfer talks (when they happen to come up) in the other appropriate thread.

 

[NOVOCAINE]

I'm sure Sainz could have done it as well, the car seems to break down more for him than it does on Max. I mean it's shades of Vergne when you compare breakdown to Daniel or Kvyat. I doubt they'll get him unless he can somehow jump ship, before RBR put him in a seat. Everyone wants to jump about Verstappen getting a seat in a higher up team, but he has claimed the antics and politics of the upper teams at this time dont interest him, and he's a super young driver in F1 with easily 15 years ahead of him. He is at the prime beginning and thus why should he care about moving into a top team so soon?

Sure he says that but question is, does he really mean it? Personally I think any young racing driver hungry for success, when presented with the chance to win races and championships, will take that chance. It's understandable that he wants to stay with Toro Rosso for another year, as who knows how Ferrari will do next season? They've been rather inconsistent in recent years. However if Ferrari are fighting with Mercedes next year, and offer him a seat, I can't see him saying no.

Also Horner made it clear to Ferrari and Mercedes to not bother as well. And really it doesn't matter Pascal is more likely to be seen in a Merc seat than any other newer driver. But this is off topic to Brazil really so I'll just continue the Toro Rosso developments in the appropriate thread and the driver transfer talks (when they happen to come up) in the other appropriate thread.

What Christian seems to be forgetting however is that he's not entirely in control of the decisions his drivers make. So if Max isn't contracted to Red Bull for 2017, and decided he wants to go to Ferrari, then that's just tough for Red Bull. Anyway as you said this is going a bit off topic, so I'll leave it here.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sure he says that but question is, does he really mean it? Personally I think any young racing driver hungry for success, when presented with the chance to win races and championships, will take that chance. It's understandable that he wants to stay with Toro Rosso for another year, as who knows how Ferrari will do next season? They've been rather inconsistent in recent years. However if Ferrari are fighting with Mercedes next year, and offer him a seat, I can't see him saying no.

...Analyze everything and you'll see why his words even for his age, are a bit wiser than say if it was anyone else in his position. His father joined a very political team at a young age and put him in a position where he drove nothing but back markers for the rest of his time in F1. Sure he probably would like to be in a top team, but there are probably things he'd rather understand and navigate before joining one. I can see him saying no because the buy out at RBR is probably massive considering how much of his career (like it or not) he owes to them.

What Christian seems to be forgetting however is that he's not entirely in control of the decisions his drivers make. So if Max isn't contracted to Red Bull for 2017, and decided he wants to go to Ferrari, then that's just tough for Red Bull. Anyway as you said this is going a bit off topic, so I'll leave it here.

He has a multi year contract with Red Bull, and while you may undermine to me that is, his power (Horner), Marko does more than enough to remind the young drivers who is signing the paycheck and how steep the penalty is to cut ties. But as I said and you can check the drivers thread, he has a multi year contract with RBR how long that is, they don't seem to have told the world, but it's not our business really.

 

[Mike-ZENKAI]

he has a multi year contract with RBR how long that is, they don't seem to have told the world, but it's not our business really.

Apparently till 2018 including some options, which are not clear.

(Sorry still off topic)

 

[Pupik]

Williams has taken the role of second best Merc team, but they don't have the money to outdevelop a factory team. Without a strong McLaren, there has been no hope for a genuine challenge to Mercedes these past two seasons.

If Honda can sort things out, yay. I doubt they will. Not at least for another half season. Red Bull next year is the big question mark. You can have the most excellent car in the world, but if it doesn't have an engine, you're not going to challenge for wins.

And this is where having more open and flexible design rules might stand a chance of upsetting the current order. Some midfield team could "pull a Brawn GP" once more, but that's far less likely now.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Apparently till 2018 including some options, which are not clear.

(Sorry still off topic)

Thanks mike 👍

 

[mustafur]

And this is where having more open and flexible design rules might stand a chance of upsetting the current order. Some midfield team could "pull a Brawn GP" once more, but that's far less likely now.

Keep in mind the Brawn car was made with close to if not the biggest budget on the grid with Honda.