2015 New Series Gt300 Lexus IS350 500bhp open signups topicOpen

[Malcolm Tucker]

That's what we did for years at RlyR and it worked out well.

Nice 👍 My main apprehension in the plan was upsetting the guys at the front, but if everyone is happy with a smaller field to balance it out for the slower guys then I can't see any problem. Did you ever have anyone complain, like if a front-runner qualifies 11th so can't make up any places, despite being faster than the slowest in room 1? He might argue that if room 1 was fixed at 16 cars then he could've potentially won the race rather than be stuck in 11th.

 

[PJTierney]

RlyR set the lobbies up by ability, we we knew who the faster and slower dirvers were. An objective way to do it however is to split it by championship order, or by the previous week's results.

We also merged lobby times however which you can't really do easily if you run a pace lap and weather.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

It's a minefield I guess we couldn't do it by previous week's results as people would then get stuck in either room, I guess it's a lot easier when you know your drivers well. Maybe some sort of time trial system could be used at the test races to gauge skill levels or something, I'm sure we'll figure out a fair way lol

 

[filipino1234]

Sry to say Logi but i dont get the qualifing system. Do u have to post your qualifing time days before the main race? And when the first race will be finished, are the "fast" and "slow" drivers locked in as "fast" or "slow" for the rest of the season? Since people have diffrent amounts of track time on each track the result could varie. And what does the words after each prize mean?

 

[PJTierney]

What Virtual Motorsports did which worked quite well was to have a 20 minute qualifying session, and then construct the lobbies based on the results of that. (with no merging of race results)

In addition to the standard points system, drivers that DNF'd were dropped to the bottom of the standings, which meant that the top drivers in Lobby 2 could still gain extra points if a few Lobby 1 drivers failed to finish.

POINTS

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th 11th 12th
Room 1 200 197 195 193 191 189 187 185 183 181 179 177
Room 2 175 173 171 169 167 165 163 161 159 157 155 153
Room 3 151 149 147 145 143 141 139 137 135 133 131 129
Room 4 127 125 123 121 119 117 115 113 111 109 107 105

Let's say in the above example 3 drivers DNFd in Room 1.

Everybody below them would move up 3 spots in the final order, so the winner of Room 2 would have 181 points instead of 175 for example.

At its peak, VM were having 7+ lobbies running at once, with around 80-90 drivers. The system put people on similar pace in the same lobby (due to qualifying results) which meant everybody had somebody to race against, and the points system was quite fair.

 

[BAZZER]

Some questions about the regs then. Really disappointed I have to come online to practice and qualify before the day of the race seeing as its a monday night series. I already get enough ear ache off the girlfriend as it is.

Also how is this 2 rooms going to work out? Like PJ said, if we only have 22 turn up for a race are the rooms split into 11 each meaning room 2 leader can only get points for 11th even though its highly likely they could of finished higher in the main room?

And what happens when people start getting weight and can't qualify high up but are more than capable of finishing higher in the endurance race? They are then severely penalised for being fast and are restricted in the points they can gain. I thought the point of all the change was to stop fast driver like skeng getting punished so harshly for being fast?

 

[PJTierney]

Really disappointed I have to come online to practice and qualify before the day of the race seeing as its a monday night series.

Just noticed this. If I can't do everything "on the night" I may actually pull out of the series as I already have enough going on on other nights.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Good point about the ballast @BAZZER I didn't think of that.

The problem with a normal qualifying session before the race is how would it work if there's more than 16 of us? We'd need two rooms obviously, someone would need to be writing the times down in each room, then compare the times of each room, get everyone in the right room, manual grids... it would take forever and be a massive ballache but spreading it out over other days will understandably cause problems for some, possibly me as well as I can't really commit to weekends or Tuesdays, and from February I might not have any free days thinking about it

 

[azidahaka]

Just noticed this. If I can't do everything "on the night" I may actually pull out of the series as I already have enough going on on other nights.

Good point about the ballast @BAZZER I didn't think of that.

The problem with a normal qualifying session before the race is how would it work if there's more than 16 of us? We'd need two rooms obviously, someone would need to be writing the times down in each room, then compare the times of each room, get everyone in the right room, manual grids... it would take forever and be a massive ballache but spreading it out over other days will understandably cause problems for some, possibly me as well as I can't really commit to weekends or Tuesdays, and from February I might not have any free days thinking about it

Well taking 1 out lap + 2 flying laps+ 1 in lap i do not think is that problematic. it takes like 10 minutes at most and there's a good number of chances for that...

Else i wonder if we can use the "time trial" function of the rooms... 2 rooms make their own pre-race session then we swiftly compile a standings and create the 2 rooms... Need to test this.

 

[BAZZER]

I can't commit to those qualifying sessions! I'll start last every race limiting me to a maximum position of room 2 or I will pull out, haven't decided yet.

 

[azidahaka]

The last option i talked about would be just before race... >_> Like we always do.

I guess a 6 minutes time trial room with penalties and setted as "race alone" would do the trick. After that we would just to compile the standings from the 2 rooms.

 

[BAZZER]

So why post up the final set of rules and regs when its clear as day they are massively flawed?

 

[PJTierney]

What I liked about the previous season was that it was pretty simple; Top 12 got locked-in, the rest then have to compete for 4 spots. Then there was Qualifying/race in a single room.

I never got to experience the power caps as I was a late joiner so I can't really comment on that.

While the upcoming series does seem interesting and the signup numbers are great so far, I fear that the whole thing will end up too complicated for me to commit to.
As you can tell I like to show up on the day and go racing, without having to worry abut lobby allocation, ballast etc. Not knocking the series for that it's just a preference thing.

I'll have a night's sleep on it to think things over, but right now I am considering pulling out of the series.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Well taking 1 out lap + 2 flying laps+ 1 in lap i do not think is that problematic. it takes like 10 minutes at most and there's a good number of chances for that...

Else i wonder if we can use the "time trial" function of the rooms... 2 rooms make their own pre-race session then we swiftly compile a standings and create the 2 rooms... Need to test this.

Do you mean on Sunday for example or Monday before the race? If you mean on Sunday then no, I can't just jump in a car and set a good quali time. I need a good hour really to get into it so it wouldn't be a quick thing at all. If you mean before the race then yep that's true but I was referring to the comparing of times and getting everyone in the right lobby etc. There could be up to a half an hour wait between quali and the race when all the grid positions are being figured out, which involves a lot of headaches for the timekeepers and a lot of waiting for everyone else. I commend the effort to try and run a two room series but I'm not sure we've got the necessary tools to do it efficiently in a way that suits everyone. I said I'd be happy to be assigned to room 2 full time if it helps, but I don't think I'd want to be doing my own quali whilst having to make notes of everyone else's time as well, like you guys said you need to concentrate on your race on race day

 

[Pubs16]

Hmmm, I also agree with PJ, Malcom and Flanked on a few things... I know you guys are trying to suit numbers and are trying to aim for another great season for everyone, but as PJ said I really enjoyed how the last one was, it was simple and you could just rock up after a week of practice, not have a qualifier few days before and then race another day... it takes the fun and realism out a little. Also, with 2 lobbies as a few have said, yeah maybe there'll be a couple DNF's in room 1 to help 11th (or 17th) gain a few points over the above but how often would that happen? How much MORE often would it be likely that 11th or 17th could potentially climb up to the podium in a 90min race? Personally I feel my strong suit is IN the endurance race, not qualifying and if I could at least qualify at the back of the pack I could still make up many many places in the race. Maybe a 2 lobby system would work for more of a sprint/normal format, but for 90 minutes of racing with fuel, tyres and damage being the things that make or break a race it just doesn't suit IMHO.

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Yeh the more I think about it the more problematic it becomes. We definitely won't be able to keep everyone happy but maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves? There's only 18 sign ups atm, that might increase but maybe @azidahaka @Stephen Vann maybe you guys should think about just a single lobby with 20 sign ups or so?

If we managed 30 sign ups some sort of two-tier league system might work? Various time trials before the start of the season would decide which room you are in for the whole season, then for season 2 the bottom 4 or so in room 1 would be relegated to room 2, and the top 4 in room 2 promoted to room 1. But this can only really work with 2 full rooms and if you actually plan a season 2 or not

 

[Stephen Vann]

Yeh the more I think about it the more problematic it becomes. We definitely won't be able to keep everyone happy but maybe we're getting ahead of ourselves? There's only 18 sign ups atm, that might increase but maybe @azidahaka @Stephen Vann maybe you guys should think about just a single lobby with 20 sign ups or so?

If we managed 30 sign ups some sort of two-tier league system might work? Various time trials before the start of the season would decide which room you are in for the whole season, then for season 2 the bottom 4 or so in room 1 would be relegated to room 2, and the top 4 in room 2 promoted to room 1. But this can only really work with 2 full rooms and if you actually plan a season 2 or not

Hi Malcolm.
We have been through many scenarios over the last 2 months of planning.
The problem has always been that we ideally wanted a full room for the race.
We then have to have reseve drivers.
Then if they have practiced and not got into the race their practice is wasted.
We then thought have a few more , 26 to qualify for 16 places , then again we would have 10 not get a race after lots of practice.
So having 2 rooms makes sense and having them all in the chamoionship makes sense or everyone.

I have been told that without doubt it will easily fill 30 slots once the series is made public.

Malcolm, i justy want to say, there are many scenarios that may well work.
We have now after much effort put together a series, that will make life as easy as possible for the stewards and as fair as possible for all competitors.
We really have thought through this process carefully and changed and re changed many aspects to get a balance of ease and fairness.
We have used some parts of othere series regulations that work, some from series we have run before that work and made this series.

As far as i would say its set in stone so we wont be changing anything else, however if you like all the planning etc, i am more than happy to have you onboard with series planning when we set up the next series, it will be based on this one, with any tweaks that can only be found after time.

 

[azidahaka]

What i meant before is time trial before race start like we do with qualy now. It take the time of uploading a screenshot to forum to get the 2 grids. Falso no reason to be Locked in a room.

Sorry About silence But i'm pretty full handed in these days and skeng is mia

 

[Stephen Vann]

What i meant before is time trial before race start like we do with qualy now. It take the time of uploading a screenshot to forum to get the 2 grids. Falso no reason to be Locked in a room.

Sorry About silence But i'm pretty full handed in these days and skeng is mia

Karsten, its best we do all that before race day.
we generally run late and people get pissed off at all the waiting.
Everyone can find 10 minutes to run their qualy in the week, it makes sense,
then on Monday we just arrive and race.

I want to just turn up and race on mondays and not have to do all sortting out disputes about stuffin time trial qualy etc.

 

[azidahaka]

People are complaiming About that actually. They do not want qualy separated from raceday.

 

[Stephen Vann]

People are complaiming About that actually. They do not want qualy separated from raceday.

Oh well, only smiley has said he is not keen on it ? have you seen others ?

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Yeh I understand you guys must've put a lot of work in, I wasn't having a dig, just trying to air potential solutions to the problems people have. Your doing a good job in a tough situation 👍

PJ and I also raised concerns about quali on a different day. For me it's not a simple jump on for 10 mins, I need a good half hour to get into it beforehand. And it needs to be done when a steward is also online so that limits when it can be done. Come February I'll be in another 3 series so finding that time will be difficult. I also raised the concerns about quali before the race though lol so I'm stumped as to what to do.

 

[Stephen Vann]

Yeh I understand you guys must've put a lot of work in, I wasn't having a dig, just trying to air potential solutions to the problems people have. Your doing a good job in a tough situation 👍

PJ and I also raised concerns about quali on a different day. For me it's not a simple jump on for 10 mins, I need a good half hour to get into it beforehand. And it needs to be done when a steward is also online so that limits when it can be done. Come February I'll be in another 3 series so finding that time will be difficult. I also raised the concerns about quali before the race though lol so I'm stumped as to what to do.

Ok thats cool , karsten is working now on a solution that we all do a 4 lap time trial before the race instead of qualy in the week. We will post the option later and lets see how people choose what they prefer.

 

[BAZZER]

None of you are going to answer the concerns about people getting ballast and therefore potentially not being able to qualify in room 1 limiting the points and position they can get/finish before the race has even started?

 

[Malcolm Tucker]

Ok thats cool , karsten is working now on a solution that we all do a 4 lap time trial before the race instead of qualy in the week. We will post the option later and lets see how people choose what they prefer.

👍 Unfortunately the ideal situation for competitors is the most unideal for the stewards

 

[Pubs16]

Oh well, only smiley has said he is not keen on it ? have you seen others ?

Hmmm, I also agree with PJ, Malcom and Flanked on a few things... but as PJ said I really enjoyed how the last one was, it was simple and you could just rock up after a week of practice, not have a qualifier few days before and then race another day... it takes the fun and realism out a little.

 

[Stephen Vann]

None of you are going to answer the concerns about people getting ballast and therefore potentially not being able to qualify in room 1 limiting the points and position they can get/finish before the race has even started?

Well, in a handicap series, we want the vhampionship to be as close as possible for as long as possible.
In an ideal world we would all take turns in scoring well and would not need any handoicap.
But its the best solution really, if it a handicapped series, using weight as handicap, this is a good way to keep the championship points as close as possible ?

We of course want to keep it as much as possible top everyones liking, so if we need to change the qualifying to race day, then we will do, i just want to be clear that we try to find a good balance that works for stewards as well as all drivers.
I will post an alternative qualy style shortly.

 

[Stephen Vann]

ok i can see its mopt favored by all, so thats fine, i necer would make it painful for you guys.

We will post on the day qualy option later.

 

[SmileyWRX]

Oh well, only smiley has said he is not keen on it ? have you seen others ?

Maybe it is only me yes.

My point of view is that i am participating in two series events with one race now.

Day X
adjusting and practice for quali
qauli event (maybe alone or with two or eight or sixteen guys..)

Monday
adjusting and practice for race
60 min in lobby before race
Race


Please don`t get me wrong 👍

 

[Stephen Vann]

Maybe it is only me yes.

My point of view is that i am participating in two series events with one race now.

Day X
adjusting and practice for quali
qauli event (maybe alone or with two or eight or sixteen guys..)

Monday
adjusting and practice for race
60 min in lobby before race
Race


Please don`t get me wrong 👍

no that fine Smiley, it seem there are a couple of others that are not keen either for similar reasons.

We will find a way to do it before the race in a way that meakes it easier for everyone.

Watch out for new posts later.