2016/17 Premier League & General Football Discussion
- Thread starter Liquid
- 2,138 comments
- 69,942 views
- 29,991
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
I'm disappointed. "8 Premier League managers" and so far we've only got two assistant managers and one of those is in the Championship.
Stoke City chairman Peter Coates has come out and said that football has never been cleaner and to be honest, I kind of believe him. That's not to say that football is clean because it evidently is not but it is cleaner than in the past; to suggest that there was no corruption in football before the megabucks and that corruption has only appeared with the advent of supreme revenues is to ignore the facts.
If you read the autobiography of pretty much any player who was around in the 50s, 60s and 70s they all have stories about match fixing, transfer cartels and bribery. Brian Clough talks about it happening quite a lot during his time as a player at Sunderland, the irony being that he himself was accused of taking backhanders when he became a manager.
It's a problem which has always persisted but that said, it's obviously quite an egregious situation and I'll be curious to see who takes the blame and who gets their backs covered by boards of directors or the FA. There's no way the FA is clean as a whistle.
Stoke City chairman Peter Coates has come out and said that football has never been cleaner and to be honest, I kind of believe him. That's not to say that football is clean because it evidently is not but it is cleaner than in the past; to suggest that there was no corruption in football before the megabucks and that corruption has only appeared with the advent of supreme revenues is to ignore the facts.
If you read the autobiography of pretty much any player who was around in the 50s, 60s and 70s they all have stories about match fixing, transfer cartels and bribery. Brian Clough talks about it happening quite a lot during his time as a player at Sunderland, the irony being that he himself was accused of taking backhanders when he became a manager.
It's a problem which has always persisted but that said, it's obviously quite an egregious situation and I'll be curious to see who takes the blame and who gets their backs covered by boards of directors or the FA. There's no way the FA is clean as a whistle.
- 15,916
- wrexham
- jameskent86451
- Jamobomb86
Games this weekend.
Tonight
Everton v Crystal Palace (8pm Sky)
Saturday
Hull v Chelsea
Sunderland v West Brom
Swansea v Liverpool (12.30 Sky)
Watford v Bournemouth
West Ham v Middlesbrough
Sunday
Man United v Stoke (12pm BT)
Leicester v Southampton
Tottenham v Man City (2.15 Sky)
Burnley v Arsenal (4.30 Sky)
Big top of the table clash on Sunday already, no late Kick-off's tomorrow as BT have got a game on Sunday, no Monday night game, International break next weekend.
Tonight
Everton v Crystal Palace (8pm Sky)
Saturday
Hull v Chelsea
Sunderland v West Brom
Swansea v Liverpool (12.30 Sky)
Watford v Bournemouth
West Ham v Middlesbrough
Sunday
Man United v Stoke (12pm BT)
Leicester v Southampton
Tottenham v Man City (2.15 Sky)
Burnley v Arsenal (4.30 Sky)
Big top of the table clash on Sunday already, no late Kick-off's tomorrow as BT have got a game on Sunday, no Monday night game, International break next weekend.
- 13,079
- United Kingdom
Even though most of their fans wouldn't want it, surely it's time for Celtic to join the EPL, like Swansea and Cardiff. They'd have better competition and if they did qualify for Europe, would have more practice against teams of the correct calibre.
- 87,659
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
More to the point, is the SPL even in doubt as a title in the bag each year? And without that doubt - even a slim one - is there any fear of loss or joy of success? Sure, the odd result might drop Celtic out of a cup or two, but otherwise is there any actual fun in the season any more?
Brend
Premium
- 11,772
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
@Famine @Jimlaad43 - I can understand the points for joining the league and just regarding the SPFL in general but as a fan I try not to get too far ahead of myself... As you've firstly said Famine, cups are the most dangerous competition as anything can happen in the cup and an off-day can cost hugely, but even in the SPFL the dogged defending can be a real pain to play against. Today Dundee defended tremendously but on the other side of it, they had 2 shots - none of which on target - to Celtic's 17.
If Celtic were to leave Scottish football for whatever reason, it would have to be BPL or bust. Which isn't very fair to the 10s of other English teams who (rightfully) feel they'd deserve the place more.
Plus, I think the FA have made it clear they want no other countries getting access to the prem. So it's a bit of a dud discussion anyway.
If Celtic were to leave Scottish football for whatever reason, it would have to be BPL or bust. Which isn't very fair to the 10s of other English teams who (rightfully) feel they'd deserve the place more.
Plus, I think the FA have made it clear they want no other countries getting access to the prem. So it's a bit of a dud discussion anyway.
- 87,659
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
While teams playing outside their home nation isn't that unusual (especially here in the UK, but check out the Singapore S League), I'm not that bothered about Celtic playing in England or not.
It's just that they have no rivals. I mean, they may lose or draw a couple of games a season, but there is absolutely no doubt they're going to win the SPL and there is absolutely no doubt that's not going to change in the foreseeable future. Celtic winning the SPL is like breathing. Although it's nice that I keep breathing, I expect that it's going to happen and I don't take any particular joy or satisfaction from it.
Look at the last five domestic seasons:
2015-16 - P45; W31 D9 L5; +108 -37; Won league by 15pt
2014-15 - P47; W36 D6 L5; +110 -21; Won league by 17pt
2013-14 - P41; W32 D6 L3; +110 -28; Won league by 29pt
2012-13 - P47; W31 D8 L8; +118 -43; Won league by 16pt
2011-12 - P46; W36 D3 L7; +103 -26; Won league by 20pt
The title is in the bag every year. By the end of today, after 7 games, Celtic will have at worst a 4pt advantage with a game in hand - or more than two games advantage in 7. That roughly equates to a league-winning margin of 32 points, even more than in 2013-14 when two-thirds of the club's defeats that season were in the cups...
Was it not more fun beating Rangers to the title by 3pt in 2008? Wasn't it more exciting losing the title by a single point?
Where is the drama and excitement to whumping the entire league by fistfuls of games every season? Did you start the season thinking that anything other than a Celtic victory by June (okay, April) was impossible? Won't you start the next season thinking the same?
Brend
Premium
- 11,772
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
I do expect that Celtic will win the league but the main motivation for each season is in Europe. Obviously as football becomes financial juggernauts elsewhere in the world that becomes tougher and tougher but it's definitely where we want to have our season 'drama'. It's not really our fault that there's no opposition as it stands, I do agree with your main points however - the lack of competition is becoming a bit more apparent each season and I don't see it changing either.
- 87,659
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Yet it's over by Christmas. The last four European campaigns look like this:
2012-13 - P10; W5 D1 L4; +13 -13; Eliminated in March
2013-14 - P12; W5 D1 L6; +12 -16; Eliminated in December
2014-15 - P14; W5 D4 L5; +23 -21; Eliminated from CL in August; Eliminated in February
2015-16 - P10; W2 D4 L4; +12 -16; Eliminated from CL in August; Eliminated in December
The current one, for balance, looks like this:
2016-17 - P8; W3 D2 L3; +14 -17
In many ways, Celtic is to Europe what the rest-of-the-Scottish-League is to Celtic.
Over the last five seasons in domestic games the club averages 2.348pt per game (including cup ties scored as 3pt for a win in 90 minutes, 1pt for a draw in 90 minutes and 0pt for a defeat in 90 minutes), scoring 2.429 goals per game and conceding just 0.686 at a ratio of 3.542:1
Over the following European campaigns, the club averages 1.326pt per game, scoring 1.609 goals per game and conceding 1.804, at a ratio of 0.892:1. A club with those statistics domestically would have finished somewhere between St. Johnstone and Motherwell last season, scoring as much as 2nd place Aberdeen and conceding as much as relegated Dundee United...
For my own amusement, I looked at Arsenal, who similarly qualify through preliminary rounds and get knocked out in the first knockout stage every season. Over the last three seasons (and this), they've got these stats:
England: P136; W79 D32 L25; +249 -145
Europe: P30; W16 D4 L8; +49 -35
That's 1.978pt, 1.831 goals for and 1.066 goals against (1.717:1) per game domestically and 1.733pt, 1.633 goals for and 1.167 goals against (1.400:1) in Europe. It's amusing that they're not significantly worse in Europe than they are domestically and that they are significantly better than Celtic... but progress no further
I think the quickest solution would be to have a strong rival in the league. The problem with that is that, if they're too strong, you might not qualify for Europe at all.
But to be honest, that's not really the thing I'm questioning. I'm more wondering just how Celtic fans can retain any interest in the league at all.
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- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Pretty much how I see it, the only thing that will save the SPL is if Rangers can recover to a point they can battle for the title, and or Do something in Europe with Celtic at the same time.
When you had both the Old firm in it last they also had 2 champions league spots availble because both teams had the ability to rack up coeffienct points for the league to give it a decent standing and giving both a chance at the lucrative European money, once it went back to one you can see how its become harder for Celtic to do well in Europe as the Champion was no longer given a Group Stage spot for being a Champion and it was costing them the money required to keep the League competitive with others.
Aberdeen who seemed to take most advantage of the hole left from Rangers could if everything falls their way give Celtic a hard time in the league but when it comes to Europe they are worse then useless and that won't change unless the league as a whole gets more money flowed into it via Europe and then TV contracts(when rangers got demoted the TV pay was cut massively and its not going to improve untill the next one is up for extention with rangers back in it).
I would put the SPL as a league similar to Portugals in potential if everything can be maximised in Europe but since Portugal has 3 solid teams and SPL has gone from 2 to 1 they have crumbled in comparison.
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Brend
Premium
- 11,772
- Scotland
- GTSophy-Lapos
- ClassicBrend
I'm interested in Celtic, whatever competition they play in. The current league is where Celtic play, therefore that's why I'm interested.
Europe is the goal because of what you've said, it's the one area where we aren't expected to do anything, because why would we? We have no right to mix with big money football any more and last time a club in Scotland tried to pretend otherwise they died, for lack of a better term, and paid the ultimate price. Ultimate being the most lenient punishment cheaters could be given, of course.
It's a peculiar situation that won't change, I can't see Scottish football losing us and us moving on either. One thing's for sure, where there is Celtic, I'll be interested. No matter where or when, I'll be there to give the bhoys a cheer.
Getting to watch Celtic play is what matters to me - no matter who against.
- 15,916
- wrexham
- jameskent86451
- Jamobomb86
Dont be surprised if you hear that Swansea boss Guidolin has got the sack in the next few days, in his post match conference after the Liverpool game yesterday he seemed really downbeat and knows whats coming, reports are he is set for showdown talks with the new investors tomorrow.
- 29,991
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
He might be a Champions League-winning manager but even he couldn't rescue Villa from their plight.
It's just 124 days since he took over and Villa are looking for their fourth full-time manager in a year. Five if you include Eric Black. (Sherwood - Garde - Black (c) - Di Matteo - ???)
3rd October - Roberto Di Matteo (Aston Villa, sacked) Championship
Sackings: 3
Resignations: 1
Total: 4
It's just 124 days since he took over and Villa are looking for their fourth full-time manager in a year. Five if you include Eric Black. (Sherwood - Garde - Black (c) - Di Matteo - ???)
3rd October - Roberto Di Matteo (Aston Villa, sacked) Championship
Sackings: 3
Resignations: 1
Total: 4
- 29,991
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
That might make him the first man from the United States to be a manager in the English leagues? It must be a PL first.
All these upheavals and Nigel Pearson is still officially Derby manager...
3rd October - Francesco Guidolin (Swansea City, sacked) Premier League
Sackings: 4
Resignations: 1
Total: 5
All these upheavals and Nigel Pearson is still officially Derby manager...
3rd October - Francesco Guidolin (Swansea City, sacked) Premier League
Sackings: 4
Resignations: 1
Total: 5
- 15,916
- wrexham
- jameskent86451
- Jamobomb86
Well like i said last night, he was a dead man walking, i appreciate his hard work last season in bringing stability which lead to us surviving, it didn't work out this season for whatever reason.
Don't really know much about Bob Bradley, but hopefully he can do well.
Don't really know much about Bob Bradley, but hopefully he can do well.
