2016 F1 Constructor tech info/development thread. (READ 1ST POST)Formula 1

[TenEightyOne]

Horner says that signing a Renault deal for 2017 is now "a formality". What a difference a year makes

 

[Pete05]

Horner says that signing a Renault deal for 2017 is now "a formality". What a difference a year makes

Horner needs to chill & wait until the results start showing a trend. He's drunk on Dan's Pole at the moment & clearly isn't thinking before putting his mouth in gear.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Horner needs to chill & wait until the results start showing a trend. He's drunk on Dan's Pole at the moment & clearly isn't thinking before putting his mouth in gear.

He doesn't have much time; two months from now would be too late to start designing around a different engine.

Renault have blown very few lumps up this year and they're clearly way ahead of last year's pace; do you see it as likely that RB would want to change?

 

[Pete05]

He doesn't have much time; two months from now would be too late to start designing around a different engine.

Renault have blown very few lumps up this year and they're clearly way ahead of last year's pace; do you see it as likely that RB would want to change?

Well, I imagine the guy at RB that's most frustrated of all would be Newey. He went through more of this later in the year last season & still managed to produce the RB12. It's not a bad piece of kit either.
Your right, Renault have proved more reliable this year so far but the jury is still waiting for evidence of this new evolution. If it stands up in Canada & the other venues that really tax an engine, I'll be the first to say sign on the dotted line.
I can't imagine any team wanting to split with an existing supplier as that's like going back to Day 1 in a lot of ways. What's the alternative? And, what's the potential gain in performance for what spend? I can only suggest Ferrari or Merc & the potential gain is ever decreasing. Weren't new rules passed to stop them both refusing to supply from 2017?
Considering they've done away with the utterly ridiculous token system, it's probably better they stay with the devil they know. Time will tell.

 

[Milouse]

Both Red Bull and Toro Rosso will have Renault engine next year and next one. It is official since this morning.

So much love on this pic:

 

[prisonermonkeys]

So much love on this pic

Worst. NWA tribute band. Ever.

 

[twitcher]

Old white guys have a remarkable ability to ruin anything that is cool

 

[prisonermonkeys]

They're Straight Outta Milton Keynes.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125276
^New suspension upgrades at silverstone test

Williams upgrades, http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---williams-silverstone-aero.html

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---austria-updates.html

Wasn't used in Austria but did turn up again in testing, the idea is to create efficient air flow in the rear, at a cheaper cost than top teams.

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/t...ht---mercedes-add-strength-to-suspension.html

Restrengthened rear suspension to survive the bumps

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---ferraris-silverstone-updates.html

Further aero work done from austria and carried over to the testing at Silverstone.

Also more on that double rear wing Williams has been messing with during in season tests, and believe it could be legal for 2017.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/232099/1/double-rear-wing-boosts-corner-grip-bottas.html

 

[Pete05]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125276
^New suspension upgrades at silverstone test

Williams upgrades, http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---williams-silverstone-aero.html

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---austria-updates.html

Wasn't used in Austria but did turn up again in testing, the idea is to create efficient air flow in the rear, at a cheaper cost than top teams.

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/t...ht---mercedes-add-strength-to-suspension.html

Restrengthened rear suspension to survive the bumps

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2016/7/tech-insight---ferraris-silverstone-updates.html

Further aero work done from austria and carried over to the testing at Silverstone.

Also more on that double rear wing Williams has been messing with during in season tests, and believe it could be legal for 2017.

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/232099/1/double-rear-wing-boosts-corner-grip-bottas.html

Anything from the artist that is Giorgio Piola gets my attention.

As for that Williams double rear wing, I hope it isn't legal next year. It's absolutely hideous

 

[Pezzarinho17]

It isn't, testing purposes only. Presumably it is the easiest way to simulate the extra aerodynamics and tyre grip expected in 2017.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It isn't, testing purposes only. Presumably it is the easiest way to simulate the extra aerodynamics and tyre grip expected in 2017.

Exactly, Pirelli even had Mercedes testing next years tires. So it really is best as you put it.

Anything from the artist that is Giorgio Piola gets my attention.

As for that Williams double rear wing, I hope it isn't legal next year. It's absolutely hideous

Should buy his books like I do.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

No one asked the team to have that much setting available to drivers. It was asked to team to provide a hybrid system, they decide it was better to build a rather complicate system with lots of mode so they can tweak the car according to lots of stuff and because back then they could tell whatever they wanted to drivers. Now they have to adapt and probably will make them a bit simplier or simply teach their drivers how to resolve the most common trouble.

Hybrid systems are complicated to begin with, in fact I'd say these systems are probably more simple than those used in LMP1-H. The system and controls for the most part are not having anything to do with the hybrid. They can't make them simpler, if they could they'd have done it already. Hell the systems have been complicated for about 20 years now...so, also common trouble is what exactly?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Hybrid systems are complicated to begin with, in fact I'd say these systems are probably more simple than those used in LMP1-H. The system and controls for the most part are not having anything to do with the hybrid. They can't make them simpler, if they could they'd have done it already. Hell the systems have been complicated for about 20 years now...so, also common trouble is what exactly?

I do think that they could have done simpler engine management but like I said complicate mode let them tweak the car more get more out of the engine and recuperation mode and back then they had the right to tell everything. But if you have some inside information or are a hybrid engine engineer, I'll gladly bow to your feet and apologize to you.

As for the comon trouble I'm not a race engineer and I have no idea what are the trouble that comes the most but I do believe there's some and that driver could learn a bit more about how the hybrid system work and what possibility they have with the wheel.

But this is entirely speculation country I admit.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I do think that they could have done simpler engine management but like I said complicate mode let them tweak the car more get more out of the engine and recuperation mode and back then they had the right to tell everything. But if you have some inside information or are a hybrid engine engineer, I'll gladly bow to your feet and apologize to you.

Why would I need to be, yeah I do engineering, but I wasn't aware that there was a specialized class of engineers that work on solely hybrid ICU. I've got knowledge on ICUs in general which I why I can say what I have, any time you build a system that is meant to not only be fuel efficient at the capacity it's done in and the power being pulled without the electronic of hybrid it's going to be much more difficult than a small capacity V8 that doesn't adhere to such restrictions. And said V8 was already quite difficult.

I think a better question to ask is how exactly you expect a simpler engine management to come about?

As for the comon trouble I'm not a race engineer and I have no idea what are the trouble that comes the most but I do believe there's some and that driver could learn a bit more about how the hybrid system work and what possibility they have with the wheel.

Yet your comments suggest that there is such a thing, and that clearly it must be black and white simple fixing, drivers do know the systems, as seen this season off the top of my head, Kimi, Lewis and Nico have all had to fix in car setting that went a miss because of team error without having team help. Nico has had to do it on a few more occasions than Lewis, and Kimi fixed his issue supposedly during the Baku gp where it happened.

But this is entirely speculation country I admit.

From who?

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Why would I need to be, yeah I do engineering, but I wasn't aware that there was a specialized class of engineers that work on solely hybrid ICU. I've got knowledge on ICUs in general which I why I can say what I have, any time you build a system that is meant to not only be fuel efficient at the capacity it's done in and the power being pulled without the electronic of hybrid it's going to be much more difficult than a small capacity V8 that doesn't adhere to such restrictions. And said V8 was already quite difficult.

I think a better question to ask is how exactly you expect a simpler engine management to come about?

Well by making simpler mode, I have not much idea on how they work but surely they didnt need to have system that complicate, couldnt they make a high power mode, a race mode, a recovery mode, a reset mode, a rain mode etc.. ?

Yet your comments suggest that there is such a thing, and that clearly it must be black and white simple fixing, drivers do know the systems, as seen this season off the top of my head, Kimi, Lewis and Nico have all had to fix in car setting that went a miss because of team error without having team help. Nico has had to do it on a few more occasions than Lewis, and Kimi fixed his issue supposedly during the Baku gp where it happened.

If my comment suggest such thing then it wasnt my point, but I assumed there was recurrent problem that we dont know about. I wasnt aware they fixed some issue themselves my bad and when it's more serious they have to go trough the pitlane, where's the problem in that ?

I know you want engineer to tell them during the race but I'm against it, if your car have some sort of trouble, pit him, make it safe again and let it race again. We're back at square one yeah \o/

From who?[/QUOTE]

From me obviously.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well by making simpler mode, I have not much idea on how they work but surely they didnt need to have system that complicate, couldnt they make a high power mode, a race mode, a recovery mode, a reset mode, a rain mode etc.. ?

Yes they could but then there is the etc part, unless you want teams having 6-7 different wheels for various track types because the modes that you've suggested would be fixed. Meaning they would have set diff/torque setting, brake bias settings, ERS settings, mixture settings. Then you have the buttons that can't go away, like DRS, drink, pit limiter, yes and no for when radio is broken, rain light and such. So you're still going to have a busy wheel. The problem I think you have connecting is that these cars and all other race cars have just as complicated and busy cockpits to do multiple things because that's what racing has become.

If my comment suggest such thing then it wasnt my point, but I assumed there was recurrent problem that we dont know about. I wasnt aware they fixed some issue themselves my bad and when it's more serious they have to go trough the pitlane, where's the problem in that ?

Yeah because as I said all issues aren't equal and thus there are times where the car just needs a quick reset inside from the driver, or a simple guidance to bring it home safe with points. This isn't just something of go down the pits lose 6 spots and then fall out of contention or retire it because the team isn't fully sure of the issue. All this does it put drivers at risk by letting them keep going until failure.

I know you want engineer to tell them during the race but I'm against it, if your car have some sort of trouble, pit him, make it safe again and let it race again. We're back at square one yeah \o/

So you're against most if not all forms of racing? There is nothing unsafe about a car on the race track that isn't close to failure or that can be fixed remotely. If the cars is facing acute failure then sure get the car off the track. My issue for the last time is, people okay with the FIA saying all problems are of equal measure is a problem

From me obviously.

Okay, thought perhaps you meant on both of our parts

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

So you're against most if not all forms of racing? There is nothing unsafe about a car on the race track that isn't close to failure or that can be fixed remotely. If the cars is facing acute failure then sure get the car off the track. My issue for the last time is, people okay with the FIA saying all problems are of equal measure is a problem

Sorry I guess my brain have trouble because I can't understand your argument. Mine is simple, if the car have any sort of trouble, simple or very complicate, put it in pitlane or into the pit if needed then sort it out and let the car run again. I dont see why it's such a problem for you.

It has nothing to do with racing. If others series have it and are successful then so be it, there's series with abs and tcs (maybe ?) and other aids and I wouldnt mind watching them as I dont mind watching tuned car run around tsukuba but I want f1 to be a driver sports where drivers do the job and not engineer. If the drivers can't do it then pit and let engineer sort it out. That's my argument.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sorry I guess my brain have trouble because I can't understand your argument. Mine is simple, if the car have any sort of trouble, simple or very complicate, put it in pitlane or into the pit if needed then sort it out and let the car run again. I dont see why it's such a problem for you.

Not sure how you don't get it at this point after me and others have argued you. It's a problem because drivers don't need to come to pits and shouldn't for minimal problems that an engineer like any other racing series can tell them how to fix. It's a team sport, quit with the "well it's racing so drivers should only be responsible"

It has nothing to do with racing. If others series have it and are successful then so be it, there's series with abs and tcs (maybe ?) and other aids and I wouldnt mind watching them as I dont mind watching tuned car run around tsukuba but I want f1 to be a driver sports where drivers do the job and not engineer. If the drivers can't do it then pit and let engineer sort it out. That's my argument.

F1 hasn't been a driver sport since the 50s, not sure what you're watching. The drivers get all the glory, but through and through it's a team sport and half these drivers wouldn't have nearly the accomplishments if they didn't have a great car under them because of the team efforts. Engineer isn't driving the car out there, just enabling their driver like any other series to do the job better. You're rose tinted, heroic view of the sport is a false one.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

I'm not sure why you're starting to insult me, we have two different view in the sports and both are valid. Neither of us is a part of f1 management so it's all about opinion. And I don't think your opinion is more valid than mine because Samus agreed to yours.
I never said well it's racing so driver are responsible, please don't quote stuff I never said or interpret what I said.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm not sure why you're starting to insult me, we have two different view in the sports and both are valid. Neither of us is a part of f1 management so it's all about opinion. And I don't think your opinion is more valid than mine because Samus agreed to yours.
I never said well it's racing so driver are responsible, please don't quote stuff I never said or interpret what I said.

Where do I insult you? Also this isn't an F1 management issue, but an FIA regulation issue.

So I will because you implied it, with the fact you stated that drivers do the job and not engineers, when in reality the engineer is responsible for the car to be correct just as a mechanic is responsible for a engine blowing up, or a driver hitting a wall due to a mistake.

 

[IforceV8]

James Allison out at Ferrari. http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10513956/james-allison-leaves-ferrari

 

[JC_Dude]

Mattia Binotto is their engine guy. I guess he's just a stopgap until they find someone more suitable.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

James Allison out at Ferrari. http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/10513956/james-allison-leaves-ferrari

Wow that's horrible...thanks for the update. I'm amazed, I feel he was a big reason they started to find form again.

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

Yeah they wanted Ross Brawn but that isnt happening. I hope they can find someone quick, it's worrying for Ferrari especially since they just announced that they gonna focus on 2017 car now but without anyone experienced enough to guide the project it's gonna be hazardous. Hopefully for them and for the show they gonna find someone that can do it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'd be very happy to see James Key end up at Ferrari. He lead the design for some of the best midfield cars in recent years at Toro Rosso and Sauber, given the resources he could bring Ferrari back to the top step of the podium. The perfect replacement for James Allison, who is also an extremely talented person and I hope he's still in the F1 paddock for years to come.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'd be very happy to see James Key end up at Ferrari. He lead the design for some of the best midfield cars in recent years at Toro Rosso and Sauber, given the resources he could bring Ferrari back to the top step of the podium. The perfect replacement for James Allison, who is also an extremely talented person and I hope he's still in the F1 paddock for years to come.

I think he's making good money at TR so it would be hard to see him moving. He's probably at the most secure mid field team on the grid. I think the Ferrari dynamic is why they're going through so many people in recent years. The shake up in 2013/14 was suppose overall improve the way Ferrari worked, and in part I think a revitalized Ferrari was shown because of new faces and the idea of being part of Ferrari.

They'll find someone new, I just feel bad for Allison to be honest, I find him to be a great engineer. Hope the best for him.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

First (but by no means final) glimpse of what the 2017 cars might look like:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125581/vettel-offers-glimpse-of-f1-2017-in-test

Vettel running an SF-15T with some 2017 parts.

 

[JC_Dude]

I believe they're not 2017 parts, but parts that simulate 2017 levels of downforce.

 

[sems4arsenal]

First (but by no means final) glimpse of what the 2017 cars might look like:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/125581/vettel-offers-glimpse-of-f1-2017-in-test

Vettel running an SF-15T with some 2017 parts.

They will certainly look very mean and I welcome that, what effect will it have on the racing is what I care about, that plus we're guaranteed a Brawn/RBR/Merc domination from a team who figured out something. Betting on Mclaren, it's been a while.