2016+ Nissan Navara | Mercedes X-Class | Renault Alaskan

[Tornado]

Why should Mercedes chase volume on a car whose development would have been paid off sometime during the Cold War?

 

[Matej]

There is no meaning in keeping the G-Class if profit-draining is the only purpose it has to fulfil. I would rather shut down the entire class than continue ripping off customers like that.

And that would be a shame because the G-Class is really special, it just needs quality overhaul to become truly valuable.

Edit: Mistake, nevermind.

 

[homeforsummer]

And the current one is not massively outdated if you compare it to current mid size trucks (Ranger/Amarok/Hillux).

All of those have been released as new vehicles in the last five years or so. The G-class is essentially just a continually developed version of the car it was decades ago.

Sprinkling AMG tinsel over it and giving it an airbag doesn't make it a modern car, no more so than a Defender is.

Unlike the G-Class it doesn't have any heritage to rely on either.

Heritage, beyond the badge on the nose, means diddly-squat to the sort of people who'll buy the X-class. Most of them will probably not even know the G-class exists.

I'm sure it would be cheaper to remodel the G-Class from the bottom than investing into this project.

Really? You think it'd be cheaper to comprehensively redevelop a car that's massively out of date than to restyle what's essentially an existing Nissan pickup?

I'm sure the G-Class would appeal to wide range of customers if only MB would decide to fix the price range and fit in some weaker engines for casual buyers. The cheapest new G-Class in Croatia costs around €130k, for crying out loud!

It is a shame, the G-Class could really be what it's supposed to be. The X-Class wouldn't be necessary then.

Trust me, the G-class really isn't a good car, by virtually any metric by which things are judged. It rides and handles terribly, it's massive, thirsty, noisy, vulgar, poorly packaged, steers worse than any other car I've ever driven, and feels like a product of a different era. It was designed as a working vehicle, rather than a passenger vehicle, and it doesn't hide it very well. And it is not special, unless you mean "special needs".

Other than some kind of weird perverse desire to see automotive misfits on the road, there's no reason not to bring out a more suitable vehicle like the X-class.

 

[Tornado]

There is no meaning in keeping the G-Class if profit-draining is the only purpose it has to fulfil. I would rather shut down the entire class than continue ripping off customers like that.

And I bet Mercedes product planners are less concerned about how they are "ripping off" people who view the G Class as a car to aspire to and are happy to pay the absurd prices to get it.

 

[Matej]

Really? You think it'd be cheaper to comprehensively redevelop a car that's massively out of date than to restyle what's essentially an existing Nissan pickup?

What else needs to be changed apart from steering and suspension? From my perspective, they just need to make it more friendlier to drive, everything else somehow fits the car given the class it belongs to. They could have done it by now, taking step by step each year/model update, thus reducing what potentially seems to be huge investment.

Trust me, the G-class really isn't a good car, by virtually any metric by which things are judged. It rides and handles terribly, it's massive, thirsty, noisy, vulgar, poorly packaged, steers worse than any other car I've ever driven, and feels like a product of a different era. It was designed as a working vehicle, rather than a passenger vehicle, and it doesn't hide it very well. And it is not special, unless you mean "special needs".

I do agree with all that, it is just shame they have to rely on this cooperation when they could have used their own car to achieve the same purpose.

And I bet Mercedes product planners are less concerned about how they are "ripping off" people who view the G Class as a car to aspire to and are happy to pay the absurd prices to get it.

I knew you're were going to say that. Kudos to planners, but I couldn't do it.

 

[homeforsummer]

What else needs to be changed apart from steering and suspension?

You've literally just said you agreed with my list of all the things that are wrong with it...

From my perspective, they just need to make it more friendlier to drive, everything else somehow fits the car given the class it belongs to. They could have done it by now, taking step by step each year/model update, thus reducing what potentially seems to be huge investment.

It's inherently an old platform and no longer meets the basic standards required of a modern car - it'd be a far more involved job than simply bunging some new suspension on it. If that were the case then Land Rover would have a much, much easier job to replace the Defender - but that was supposed to happen years ago and they still haven't figured out a way of doing it suitably yet.

They really, really couldn't use that platform to achieve the purpose they're aiming for with the X-class. Mercedes' primary mission here is to bridge the gap between their passenger car and commercial vehicle ranges. Doing so with the G-class - a vehicle that drives worse than most of Merc's commercial vehicles - isn't good business practice.

 

[Tornado]

For starters the G class is pretty dramatically heavier than the midsized trucks despite being much smaller.

 

[Hearse]

I read a couple of those articles. MB clearly states they want to capitalise on what the Ranger has done. which is sell dual cab utes. MB pointed out, they have the interior covered. Which, people care more about now than what the exterior looks like(trust, that BT-50 isn't pretty). MB don't care for the tradie side of things.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Imagine if Porsche had stopped refining the 911 once they got to the 964 and suddenly they had to design the 991. That's basically what modernising the G-Wagen would entail. At the end of it you'd end up with a totally different car, to the point where you'd probably have been better off starting from scratch.

 

[Hearse]

From what @05XR8 posted

The groups identified as being key to the Australian market include “families with an active lifestyle and an affinity to premium products” and “successful adventurers, who live in an urban environment”, and “business owners … who want to use their pick-up for commercial and private purposes”.

The other two groups not identified as being relevant to Australia include “trend-conscious individualists with an affinity to premium products” and landowners.

Head of Mercedes-Benz Vans Volker Mornhinweg said the X-Class will appeal to buyers that may not have previously considered purchasing a pick-up.

“We will open up and change the segment of mid-size pick-ups – with the world’s first true premium pick-up for the modern urban lifestyle,” he said. “Our future X-Class will be a pick-up that knows no compromise. Ladder-type frame, high-torque six-cylinder engine, and permanent all-wheel drive are compulsory for us.

“As an added value we bring safety, comfort, agility, and expressive design – in other words, everything that distinguishes vehicles bearing the Mercedes star. We will thus appeal to new customers who have not considered owning a pick-up before.”

 

[05XR8]

Funny, one of my cousins in the states posted an FB video of the X-Class with dubbed in hip hop. Ironic it won't be sold there. I can see this taking off. If it's a slight premium above an NP300, it'll still be way below a Grand Cherokee SRT.

 

[Joey D]

Probably best they aren't selling this in the US, I think it would be a flop. The type of people who buy mid-sized trucks typically aren't looking for something luxurious, they are typically either looking for a fuel efficient run about that can haul something or they are looking to use it as a weekend warrior vehicle. Even when you get into full-sized trucks they don't exactly have a history of performing well from a luxury brand, Lincoln tried it twice and struck out both times.

MB is at least taking the more intelligent route though and platform sharing with an actual truck inside of trying to turn one of their car platforms into something that resembles a truck.

Trust me, the G-class really isn't a good car, by virtually any metric by which things are judged. It rides and handles terribly, it's massive, thirsty, noisy, vulgar, poorly packaged, steers worse than any other car I've ever driven, and feels like a product of a different era.

And I still very much want one.

 

[homeforsummer]

And I still very much want one.

I thought I did before I drove one. Then I realised I have limits to how much "character" I can accept in a modern car...

 

[VXR]

Can't believe people are citing Lincoln as a reason why Mercedes might fail. Chopping the back off a Navigator still makes it a Lincoln.

 

[Joey D]

Can't believe people are citing Lincoln as a reason why Mercedes might fail. Chopping the back off a Navigator still makes it a Lincoln.

It's because the Lincoln Blackwood was a truck by a luxury auto marker. If you'd like you could also consider the sales failure that was the Cadillac Escalade EXT. The market for trucks from luxury manufacturers, at least in the US, is almost non existent.

Plus Mercedes isn't doing anything vastly different than what Ford did, it's just instead of sticking some badges and bodywork on an F-150, MB is sticking badges and body work on a Nissan pickup.

Could it be successful in Europe? I have no idea what the market is like over there but I can't imagine pick ups are hot commodities.

 

[mustafur]

It's because the Lincoln Blackwood was a truck by a luxury auto marker. If you'd like you could also consider the sales failure that was the Cadillac Escalade EXT. The market for trucks from luxury manufacturers, at least in the US, is almost non existent.

Plus Mercedes isn't doing anything vastly different than what Ford did, it's just instead of sticking some badges and bodywork on an F-150, MB is sticking badges and body work on a Nissan pickup.

Could it be successful in Europe? I have no idea what the market is like over there but I can't imagine pick ups are hot commodities.

interior wise it looks completely Mercedes though and if that's the case, that's basically job done in that regard.

If it's using leaf springs like the Nissan it's not really Luxury. Leaf springs are basically the exact opposite of the word.

 

[05XR8]

As for the Australian market, with premium brands, most people will buy the top spec model. A MB C220 is as rare as any Ferrari GTO. Yet, I can play "punch buggy" or "spotto" with AMG models. Those are just about, on every corner.

The Amarok gave businesses another Ute option. The X-Class is just another option. people will buy it just because.

 

[CodeRedR51]

If it's using leaf springs like the Nissan it's not really Luxury. Leaf springs are basically the exact opposite of the word.

You can get the new Navara with coil spring rear suspension.

 

[05XR8]

Yep

Navara suspension update

You can get the new Navara with coil spring rear suspension.

 

[Joey D]

interior wise it looks completely Mercedes though and if that's the case, that's basically job done in that regard.

If it's using leaf springs like the Nissan it's not really Luxury. Leaf springs are basically the exact opposite of the word.

If it's not using leaf springs it's even more useless than I thought it would be and would show that MB is simply trying to market it as a car with a bed for people that occasionally need to buy one bag of mulch. I see R1600 pointed out you can get the Navara with coils, so I'm guessing MB will use that.

The Amarok gave businesses another Ute option. The X-Class is just another option. people will buy it just because.

The Amarok is not being built by a luxury/upscale brand though and can be bought it a really cheap commercial spec. And really wouldn't people just buy the Nissan if they were buying it for a business? They are going to want the least expensive option with the most utility.

It happened here in the states with the Mercedes Sprinter, companies just opted for the cheaper Dodge Ram Van because it was more or less the exact same vehicle with a few odds and ends that were different.

So, more power to MB going for it, I just think if they attempt to sell it in the states it will be a flop. Elsewhere in the world it might have more success.

 

[05XR8]

If it's not using leaf springs it's even more useless than I thought it would be and would show that MB is simply trying to market it as a car with a bed for people that occasionally need to buy one bag of mulch. I see R1600 pointed out you can get the Navara with coils, so I'm guessing MB will use that.



The Amarok is not being built by a luxury/upscale brand though and can be bought it a really cheap commercial spec. And really wouldn't people just buy the Nissan if they were buying it for a business? They are going to want the least expensive option with the most utility.

It happened here in the states with the Mercedes Sprinter, companies just opted for the cheaper Dodge Ram Van because it was more or less the exact same vehicle with a few odds and ends that were different.

So, more power to MB going for it, I just think if they attempt to sell it in the states it will be a flop. Elsewhere in the world it might have more success.

That's their intention to sell it to places other than the USA. VW is a premium brand here. Just as Subaru has moved up scale. Here.

Remember, Subaru in the states, was almost Saab-like. When the Outback came out, that thing was between baby-boomers and yuppie family favourite. it did better than the Audi All Road.

Here, even a Pajero, Patrol, Prado and is held in high regard.

 

[mustafur]

That's their intention to sell it to places other than the USA. VW is a premium brand here. Just as Subaru has moved up scale. Here.

No, and Hell no.

VWs sell cheaper then Mazdas these days and Subaru sells plastic garbage, hardly premium.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Mercedes-Benz Says X-Class Is Much More Than An Expensive Navara

 

[05XR8]

No, and Hell no.

VWs sell cheaper then Mazdas these days and Subaru sells plastic garbage, hardly premium.

Well, someone needs to tell the dealer principles at the VW and Subaru dealerships I worked. As well as the customers that buy them.
People think they own a Rolls Royce when they buy a Mazda 3 SP25. That's not the point.

Point being, VW Amarok is a premium product over a BT-50. MB is even saying so(VW tapped into the Ute market before MB). The MB is a premium product over all others. That's all this car is being badged for.

 

[alonsof1fan91]

All of those have been released as new vehicles in the last five years or so. The G-class is essentially just a continually developed version of the car it was decades ago.

Thats why they are replacing it with a new model soon. I would have preferred for Merc to rather develop an truck on that platform! Its not like I can afford it, but if I could I won`t waste that much money on a rebadged Nissan/Renault. As a work horse I will rather buy the Nissan (or Ranger), to show off a GLE Coupe will do the job better.

Maybe off topic, but the G Class is not as terrible as you imply

 

[homeforsummer]

Thats why they are replacing it with a new model soon. I would have preferred for Merc to rather develop an truck on that platform! Its not like I can afford it, but if I could I won`t waste that much money on a rebadged Nissan/Renault. As a work horse I will rather buy the Nissan (or Ranger), to show off a GLE Coupe will do the job better.

You've not read between your own lines: There is middle ground between a work horse and a car to show off in. That is exactly where the X-class will sit.

Maybe off topic, but the G Class is not as terrible as you imply

It really, truly is. I'm sure it's wonderful for travelling around the world and going on-and-on-and-on-and-on, but as a vehicle to actually drive on normal roads it's horrendous. All of Merc's other SUVs, even the enormous GL, are in a completely different league for road-going behaviour.

Defenders are the same. They might be "cool", but people forget just how far SUVs have come over the last two... or three... or four decades. Heck, the original Range Rover was created all the way back in 1970 as a way of giving people Land Rover-style ability without being so utterly awful to drive on-road...

 

[alonsof1fan91]

You've not read between your own lines: There is middle ground between a work horse and a car to show off in. That is exactly where the X-class will sit.

A 70K+ car as a work horse? Hehe... I can`t imagine it having success in europe. In South America/Africa? Will potential customers prefer a Nissan based truck to a similar priced Merc SUV?

Mid Size trucks are terrible too if you compare them to modern SUVs. Terrible Engines, Terrible seats, terrible ride. We are talking about commercial vehicles, not family SUVs. You`re not comparing a Ranger to a Kuga, right?

I repeat myself: I am talking about a Merc truck based on the upcoming G Wagon successor, not on the old one. I would rather see that one coming to life

 

[homeforsummer]

A 70K+ car as a work horse? Hehe... I can`t imagine it having success in europe. In South America/Africa? Will potential customers prefer a Nissan based truck to a similar priced Merc SUV?

Mid Size trucks are terrible too if you compare them to modern SUVs. Terrible Engines, Terrible seats, terrible ride. We are talking about commercial vehicles, not family SUVs. You`re not comparing a Ranger to a Kuga, right?

I repeat myself: I am talking about a Merc truck based on the upcoming G Wagon successor, not on the old one. I would rather see that one coming to life

In which currency is it 70k? The Nissan on which this Merc is based is £22k in the UK - even supposing there's some absolutely horrific Mercedes markup, I'd be surprised if it's more than say, £40k.

A basic GLC is £45k, a basic GLE is £50k, and given the shared Nissan componentry I'd be surprised if it's in the same ballpark as cars on dedicated Mercedes platforms.

And no, I'm not comparing a Ranger to a Kuga. That's exactly why I'm saying this Merc will occupy the middle ground between appealing to trade customers and regular passenger vehicle customers. Some trade customers will be happy to pay more-than-Nissan money for a Merc-badged version of the same car (not least because, at least here in the UK, vehicles registered for business use don't incur 20% VAT, which makes pickups significantly cheaper than the sticker price), and given that pickups are already bought by people who simply like the image, I can very much see people buying a Merc one for its image - particularly if it's got a suitably Merc-like interior and some exterior bling.

If the next G-class is in any way deliberately aimed at heavy-duty use, like the current model is, it'll make it a significantly worse on-road vehicle than the X-class will be, even given the X-class's commercial roots. There are still significant engineering differences between a mid-size pickup and a vehicle that's designed expressly for off-road use, as the G-wagen originally was (and as the Defender was).

Above all, I still don't get the love for the G-class. People are of course within their rights to lust after vehicles that are crass and ostentatious, lacking in good taste those people may be. But I've driven an AMG G63 and I've driven regular pickups like the L200, and I guarantee that all the AMG tinsel in the world doesn't make the G-class a better drive than even a shonky, bouncy Mitsubishi...

 

[Tornado]

This whole discussion is eerily reminiscent of about a month ago when that guy was spamming up all of the threads about Australian cars with how there are infinite amounts of global sales to be made with a four door stretched Mustang/Camaro with the Falcon/Commodore name, if only the fools at Ford and GM would realize it.

 

[05XR8]

This is different. This is MB actually saying they want to cash in on Australian consumers love for the 4-door Ute, by offering one with the three-pointed star.

The markets they are targeting, will buy it. Again, Australia sell the most AMG vehicles per capita. Why wouldn't a well off person or even a small company, pony up and get one?