2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1

[BrainsBush]

And RBR wanted to paint the bull tail on the shark fin

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-clamp-down-on-shark-fins-and-t-wings-in-2018-897958/

 

[Dylan]

And RBR wanted to paint the bull tail on the shark fin

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-clamp-down-on-shark-fins-and-t-wings-in-2018-897958/

From that article and something that I as a relatively new F1 fan will appreciate...

One change that will be put into action at short notice is a declaration that from the Spanish Grand Prix next month, “the sporting regulations will be strictly enforced to ensure the visibility of drivers’ names and numbers on the cars will be clearer”.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/25/new-shield-head-protect-proposed-replace-halo-2018/


So the shield will be tested

 

[prisonermonkeys]

From that article and something that I as a relatively new F1 fan will appreciate.

About time. Force India used to have the annoying habit of putting the number between the two uprights connecting the front wing to the nosecone. It was impossible to see it unless the camera was right on top of it. Even now, you pretty much have to be looking straight down onto the car to see the number.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

That's why the updated the color coding on the cameras. If it's yellow and stands out, it's the #2 driver. If it's black and the car just looks normal it's the #1 driver. They changed this a few years ago from the yellow/orange because it was hard to tell the difference I think.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's why the updated the color coding on the cameras. If it's yellow and stands out, it's the #2 driver. If it's black and the car just looks normal it's the #1 driver. They changed this a few years ago from the yellow/orange because it was hard to tell the difference I think.

It was Yellow and Red, but it wasn't hard to tell, the yellow was more neon like and bright and the red was a darker red. The new way is just as easy. Telling the numbers has always been hard because it's only enlarged and easy to read from a few angles. And that's depending on the font the team uses. I've hated the McLaren font for numbers in these past couple years.

 

[[Nor]MclarenF1]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/25/new-shield-head-protect-proposed-replace-halo-2018/


So the shield will be tested

Considering how much the FIA and FOM have been going on about making F1 cars look more sexy and aggressive with the new regulation changes, the halo would be the last resort for head protection. Not to mention it is severely flawed when it comes to deflecting smaller objects.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129154/mercedes-could-assist-honda-engine-programme

It's good to see Honda has swallowed it's pride and realised they need outside help to get things on track sooner rather than later. The article also mentions they've partnered up with Ilmor.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

They can always make a regulation forcing the numbers to be on the sides of the rear wing right?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

They can always make a regulation forcing the numbers to be on the sides of the rear wing right?

See you'd think they would start there and it's a good idea really like back in the day when they did it. But I guess sponsors have more of a say then the FIA, so who knows.

 

[TheElbows]

RE: Honda/Sauber.

Isn't this a win/win? Honda gets more data...and you have to imagine given their reputation that a 'new', current season Honda motor is now probably 1/2-1/4 the price of last year's Ferrari motor? (assuming Sauber can buy the current year's motor). Seems like a plus all across the board. I can imagine the change in the negotiations...

HONDA: "$22 million for your engines in 2018"
SAUBER: "Er..."

(fast forward a few months)

HONDA: "$4 million for your engines in 2018..."
SAUBER: "Sounds great, sign us up!"

 

[Pete05]

And RBR wanted to paint the bull tail on the shark fin

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-to-clamp-down-on-shark-fins-and-t-wings-in-2018-897958/

I'm glad to see the end of the shark fins & T-wings. They may have served a purpose but IMO, they are ugly & don't do anything for the appearance of the new-for-2018 cars.

As for Mercedes extending the offer of a leg-up to Honda, what about the same offer for Renault? They're not struggling as much as Honda but they've been well behind since the new engine formula began in 2014. Fairs fair.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm glad to see the end of the shark fins & T-wings. They may have served a purpose but IMO, they are ugly & don't do anything for the appearance of the new-for-2018 cars.

As for Mercedes extending the offer of a leg-up to Honda, what about the same offer for Renault? They're not struggling as much as Honda but they've been well behind since the new engine formula began in 2014. Fairs fair.

I agree with you on shark fins, they're nice in only a limited design but not as nice as F1 cars without them.

What I disagree on is giving Renault something they one don't need, and two only have themselves to blame by thinking they would catch some break. The Renault concept is different than Mercedes and Ferrari and that's what costs them. They seem to be worse on overall power but have a balance as far as torque goes. While the others don't.

Honda is vastly different cause their issue has been various things, vibration issue, oil pump pick up issue, water pump issue, turbo issues, MGU-H issues, a host of electronic issues, some MGU-K issues mainly it being weak. No one can say what the Honda is at full power because no Honda engine seems to have lived long enough to tell the engineers and builders. Renault just builds a weak engine that seems to have mileage going for it and some balance.

FIA can't do anything for them especially in an engine free for all development, the solution for Honda is waving penalties that other three would still have to respect. That's how they would play catch up.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-neuer-red-bull-eine-waffe--10929245.html

Red Bull will be bringing a B-Spec car to Spain supposedly and then the performance update on the Renault will come in Canada. Also should be noted how promising it has looked

 

[Pete05]

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1-neuer-red-bull-eine-waffe--10929245.html

Red Bull will be bringing a B-Spec car to Spain supposedly and then the performance update on the Renault will come in Canada. Also should be noted how promising it has looked

That's great news if Ferrari, Mercedes & the other team's threatening to demote Red Bull stop their development & don't overtake them in the mean time.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's great news if Ferrari, Mercedes & the other team's threatening to demote Red Bull stop their development & don't overtake them in the mean time.

Well unless Ferrari and Mercedes are bring a brand new car that is vastly different from the car they currently run (hence b-spec), then yeah it wont mean much. However, since the only proposed updates are slight aero changes and later on engine updates. It seems like a good shot for RBR to actually fight for a podium or win. Also this is RBR we're talking about, if this is their serious take on the 2017, it could be bad for Mercedes and Ferrari as people expected (after Sunday) four races ago

EDIT

Also let's not forget how much improvement Force India gained when they brought in a B-Spec car

 

[Pete05]

Well unless Ferrari and Mercedes are bring a brand new car that is vastly different from the car they currently run (hence b-spec), then yeah it wont mean much. However, since the only proposed updates are slight aero changes and later on engine updates. It seems like a good shot for RBR to actually fight for a podium or win. Also this is RBR we're talking about, if this is their serious take on the 2017, it could be bad for Mercedes and Ferrari as people expected (after Sunday) four races ago

EDIT

Also let's not forget how much improvement Force India gained when they brought in a B-Spec car

Following qualifying for the Russian round, that B spec upgrade better be worth 2 seconds a lap or, they'll still be fighting for the scraps

I can't remember the last time the top 4 had such a large gap over the rest of the grid.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Following qualifying for the Russian round, that B spec upgrade better be worth 2 seconds a lap or, they'll still be fighting for the scraps

I can't remember the last time the top 4 had such a large gap over the rest of the grid.

Well considering how little aero they have compared to Mercedes, and the fact that if you go look at RBR history in aero development, this isn't a massive tall order. Couple that with upgrades to the PU at Canada (two races after Spain). And you could see a new mid season rival. The focus will be on if the other teams behind Red Bull decide to actually keep updating their car, or move on to 2018. Renault seem like the team that would move on, even with Nico getting the car to Q3 every weekend, they lack race pace.

I'm not saying the car they bring to Spain will be right in the mix, what I'm saying is that Red Bull are finally about to attempt what won them four WDC, in a rules package that allows them to best thrive.

 

[BrainsBush]

In a recent Dutch interview they explained that team RBR is stronger in mid season development then winter devs...So they already expected (and certainly not hoped) that the start of the season would be so so. In other words they are really disappointed that they could not continue the momentum of end last season. They will come back soonish

Now all eyes on Barcelona. But the other teams do not stop to improve as well. Will the gap be closed?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Sauber confirm that they will use Honda power in 2018:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129238/sauber-seals-honda-engine-deal-for-2018

Masochists.

 

[Bobert power]

Sauber confirm that they will use Honda power in 2018:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129238/sauber-seals-honda-engine-deal-for-2018

Masochists.

A rare photo of the Sauber Honda at Barcelona Pre-Season 2018 (Colored).

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In a recent Dutch interview they explained that team RBR is stronger in mid season development then winter devs...So they already expected (and certainly not hoped) that the start of the season would be so so. In other words they are really disappointed that they could not continue the momentum of end last season. They will come back soonish

Now all eyes on Barcelona. But the other teams do not stop to improve as well. Will the gap be closed?

That depends on how good the B-spec is. Like I said yes other teams are improving too, but you don't bring a B-Spec car to improve 3-4 tenths, you are looking to gain much more. The other teams will just be looking to gain that 3-4 tenths. I'm surprised more aren't excited at the possibility of a third team with two incredible drivers coming to fight. Especially when that team made the difference for the second half of 2009, and 2010. The only seasons RBR were out of the box fast was 2013.

 

[Pete05]

So, anyone want to guess how much Honda are going to pay Sauber to take their grenades?

/s

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So, anyone want to guess how much Honda are going to pay Sauber to take their grenades?

/s

Sauber the new Super Augri, this stint of Honda in F1 is shaping up like their last one...money raining from the sky to waste.

 

[JayOTT]

Man I can't believe Sauber is dead. They're seriously that broke that they can only afford Honda power?

 

[Jimlaad43]

If I were Sauber, I'd have said to Honda "Yes you can supply us, but we won't pay you for an engine unless it gets us in the top 10 in quali or the race". That kind of deal would help Sauber a lot, and also give Honda motivation to make the engine good.

 

[Pete05]

That depends on how good the B-spec is. Like I said yes other teams are improving too, but you don't bring a B-Spec car to improve 3-4 tenths, you are looking to gain much more. The other teams will just be looking to gain that 3-4 tenths. I'm surprised more aren't excited at the possibility of a third team with two incredible drivers coming to fight. Especially when that team made the difference for the second half of 2009, and 2010. The only seasons RBR were out of the box fast was 2013.

I really wish I was as optimistic about the RBR B spec as you are.

Reason being, I can't remember the last time any team - exploitation of a loophole or not - closed a gap of 1.5 - 2 seconds to the front runners during a season.

I certainly hope the B spec is a 1.5 second improvement & that Renault find at least 0.5 second with reliability for Canada.

As an Aussie, it's not too much fun watching Ricciardo waste another year in an uncompetitive car when he has the talent to be a WDC.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I really wish I was as optimistic about the RBR B spec as you are.

Reason being, I can't remember the last time any team - exploitation of a loophole or not - closed a gap of 1.5 - 2 seconds to the front runners during a season.

I certainly hope the B spec is a 1.5 second improvement & that Renault find at least 0.5 second with reliability for Canada.

As an Aussie, it's not too much fun watching Ricciardo waste another year in an uncompetitive car when he has the talent to be a WDC.

You're basing your premise on Quali alone, which is strange why so many of you are doing this, with how bad some of these cars are from Saturday to Sunday. What 1.5 to 2 seconds are they down on? Can you point me in that direction?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

If I were Sauber, I'd have said to Honda "Yes you can supply us, but we won't pay you for an engine unless it gets us in the top 10 in quali or the race". That kind of deal would help Sauber a lot, and also give Honda motivation to make the engine good.

You can't really measure that sort of thing objectively. Especially if a reliable Honda is comparable to other engines and Sauber don't have the chassis performance to achieve it.

Honda have said that they have upgrades in time for Barcelona, but don't expect to have everything resolved until mid-year. They have confirmed that they are getting outside assistance, but won't say who from. I expect Sauber would naturally want assurances about that before committing.

 

[Pete05]

You're basing your premise on Quali alone, which is strange why so many of you are doing this, with how bad some of these cars are from Saturday to Sunday. What 1.5 to 2 seconds are they down on? Can you point me in that direction?

On recent performances, they're 1.5 - 2 seconds off the Pole Position time. As a result of that, they have compromised race pace from having fight their way past both Mercs & Ferraris.
Not great for race strategy.

IMO, for it to truly be a fair fight, the RBRs need to be able to qualify on Pole.
Failing that, they need to have clearly superior tyre wear & fuel economy, opening up the possibility of jumping the others post-pistops. Even then they'd need a decent gap to prevent being caught & passed.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

On recent performances, they're 1.5 - 2 seconds off the Pole Position time. As a result of that, they have compromised race pace from having fight their way past both Mercs & Ferraris.
Not great for race strategy.

Race pace isn't compromised because you have to climb up spots, that's not how one defines race pace. I'm asking you to show me charts that show that laps times during a race are off by some great margin, cause all the official ones I've seen don't indicate this. What you've defined is their single lap pace.

IMO, for it to truly be a fair fight, the RBRs need to be able to qualify on Pole.
Failing that, they need to have clearly superior tyre wear & fuel economy, opening up the possibility of jumping the others post-pistops. Even then they'd need a decent gap to prevent being caught & passed.

Well then explain 2010 to me then, and how cars that were very much in the fight for the championship were off by a second or more from time to time at various GP. RBR have been anywhere from seven tenths to one second and nine tenths off the leader in quali, so I find it hard with that great variation to know exactly where they are exactly other than turning to race data.