2017 General WEC/ELMS/AsLMS Discussion ThreadSports Cars

[mustafur]

I would have to agree that the idea of GT1 would work soo much better in today's environment, super cars sell more then they have ever done in history and having Road based Prototypish GT cars would have alot of Manufacturers interested.

just allow them to play with what ever hybrid electric layout they want and they would be lining up.

 

[Tired Tyres]

NO!

Shame but I thought it would be 2017. Still. I had no respect at all for Audi until Peugeot turned up to give them a fight. Up until then it was them verses privateers, after that they earned my respect. It's been reported that a discussion between Dr Ullrich and his driver at the end of the Fuji 6 hours was over the winning Toyota leaving the track limits to pass traffic at the end. The driver was telling Dr Ullrich about it and he declined to put in a protest. Given that the only luck Audi have had this season is bad luck and, presumably, knowing they were leaving - that speaks volumes for his character.

 

[Northstar]

I would have to agree that the idea of GT1 would work soo much better in today's environment, super cars sell more then they have ever done in history and having Road based Prototypish GT cars would have alot of Manufacturers interested.

just allow them to play with what ever hybrid electric layout they want and they would be lining up.

I would love for that to happen, especially since it could possibly get companies like Pagani and Koenigsegg (plus the other boutique makes) into racing their crazy concoctions.

 

[05XR8]

Audi have been an incredible entry in sports cars but what left is there for them to do? If anything, it will be refreshing to see who will now ascend to being the best sports car constructor. Someone different. 17 years is a lonnnnnnng time.

Maybe Bentley.

 

[Ettick]

Please bring back real race cars, not the eco friendly PC gluten free LMP1. I want to see badass GTs : 911 GT1 vs F1 GTR.

Hybrid race cars are straight up faster and more interesting to drive than non-hybrids. They're one of the coolest things to happen to racecars since they started putting wings on them in the 60's. I do not understand how being hybrids makes current P1's not "real race cars."

That said, hybrids are incredibly expensive, and WEC may decide they aren't worth that expense, and I'll respect that decision if it allows the series to persist.

 

[catamount39]

Hybrid race cars are straight up faster and more interesting to drive than non-hybrids. They're one of the coolest things to happen to racecars since they started putting wings on them in the 60's. I do not understand how being hybrids makes current P1's not "real race cars."

That said, hybrids are incredibly expensive, and WEC may decide they aren't worth that expense, and I'll respect that decision if it allows the series to persist.

Hybrids get a bad rap because F1 I feel. But the end of their V8 era, they had hybrids, and they were cool. The LaFerrari is a hybrid, and it has the world's best V12 in the back.

Back on topic, hybrids may be shown the door in LMP1 unfortunately, I don't think the costs are going to get better soon enough for them to be saved. But who knows, maybe they will.

 

[trustjab]

This might sound mean, but this is VW and Audi's fault. We shouldn't try to spin it around and blame the rules. Audi (VW) did this to themselves with the dieselgate and their cheating software that has resulted in 10's of billions of dollars in fines. They not only made a huge no-no, but they helped ruin the image that diesel now has. What does Audi run in lmp1? That'd be a diesel. On top of it, the 'huge budgets' are mostly on Audi's side. $200+ million annually (according to Marshall Pruett of racer.com) is not healthy for competition. The wec isn't F1. Their budget is probably on par with teams like Williams. Force India and the like spend less than Audi did in the wec per year. Toyota spend a quarter of what they did in f1 ($300million to $75million). They just won Fuji and at Le Mans were set to win. Audi were multiple laps down. It doesn't take an F1 budget to be competitive or successful in the wec.

Speaking of Toyota, they put out a statement saying this has no effect on their program. Porsche is committed as well. Lets go back to 2012 where Toyota saved the wec from being an Audi show. That was only two factory teams and only 3 factory lmp1 cars in the wec. The ILMC before in 2011 had only Peugeot and Audi and that was spectacular. They don't really need 3 teams to put on a great show, but it's definitely harder to get excited about two manufacturers instead of three. But there will be others to join now that the biggest spenders are leaving. Good times, Audi. But the future may be better off without them if it opens the door for others like Peugeot or Honda or BMW to come in with a hydrogen fcv without having to put up half a billion just to be competitive for 3 years.

 

[catamount39]

This might sound mean, but this is VW and Audi's fault. We shouldn't try to spin it around and blame the rules. Audi (VW) did this to themselves with the dieselgate and their cheating software that has resulted in 10's of billions of dollars in fines. They not only made a huge no-no, but they helped ruin the image that diesel now has. What does Audi run in lmp1? That'd be a diesel. On top of it, the 'huge budgets' are mostly on Audi's side. $200+ million annually (according to Marshall Pruett of racer.com) is not healthy for competition. The wec isn't F1. Their budget is probably on par with teams like Williams. Force India and the like spend less than Audi did in the wec per year. Toyota spend a quarter of what they did in f1 ($300million to $75million). They just won Fuji and at Le Mans were set to win. Audi were multiple laps down. It doesn't take an F1 budget to be competitive or successful in the wec.

Speaking of Toyota, they put out a statement saying this has no effect on their program. Porsche is committed as well. Lets go back to 2012 where Toyota saved the wec from being an Audi show. That was only two factory teams and only 3 factory lmp1 cars in the wec. The ILMC before in 2011 had only Peugeot and Audi and that was spectacular. They don't really need 3 teams to put on a great show, but it's definitely harder to get excited about two manufacturers instead of three. But there will be others to join now that the biggest spenders are leaving. Good times, Audi. But the future may be better off without them if it opens the door for others like Peugeot or Honda or BMW to come in with a hydrogen fcv without having to put up half a billion just to be competitive for 3 years.

Actually, to be fair you raise good points. Afterall wasn't the prelude to this the article about how the VWAG financial issues were threatening various racing efforts? And there are actually a couple of manufacturers who were rumored to be coming by 2018....

 

[Tajima]

Is there any chance that Audi sell their 2016 cars to private teams that will adapt to 2017 rules?

 

[catamount39]

Is there any chance that Audi sell their 2016 cars to private teams that will adapt to 2017 rules?

None. The car's cost a huge sum, but they also cost a lot to run. They'll be in the Audi museum I think, and run at Audi events.

 

[RACECAR]

This might sound mean, but this is VW and Audi's fault. We shouldn't try to spin it around and blame the rules. Audi (VW) did this to themselves with the dieselgate and their cheating software that has resulted in 10's of billions of dollars in fines. They not only made a huge no-no, but they helped ruin the image that diesel now has. What does Audi run in lmp1? That'd be a diesel. On top of it, the 'huge budgets' are mostly on Audi's side. $200+ million annually (according to Marshall Pruett of racer.com) is not healthy for competition. The wec isn't F1. Their budget is probably on par with teams like Williams. Force India and the like spend less than Audi did in the wec per year. Toyota spend a quarter of what they did in f1 ($300million to $75million). They just won Fuji and at Le Mans were set to win. Audi were multiple laps down. It doesn't take an F1 budget to be competitive or successful in the wec.

While I agree with most of this (and am not even surprised mostly because of this), its actually falls squarely on VW as THEY decided it was a good idea to try and sell products with this cheating device En-masse. Audi actually tested this stuff before, but specifically followed Bosch's instruction to NOT mass sell it. Its VW that decided to ignore this and unfortunately, they dragged Audi into it.

 

[Eva]

Great points brought by this. https://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/135828-insight-what-audi-meant-to-le-mans

 

[fortbo]

This really does suck.

 

[GTFan24]

 

[fortbo]

Today's definitely been a bad day for the WEC.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

I am not surprised Audi is packing up it's sportscar gear and heading off as it had been a badly kept secret for a couple of months now. What did surprise me is that they are leaving at the end of this season as I thought we would get it 2017 season out of them before the next technical rule changes come into effect.

It is a huge pity for sportscar racing. The part Audi has played in the category since 1999 cannot ever be underestimated nor fairly disrespected. They have been incredible. As a diehard Toyota fan I will miss Audi a lot as there has been wonderful competition between us since 2012.

Audi Sport does not deserve to have such a historic programme cut and I feel for that group. On the other hand I have no sympathy for Audi, as a whole, having to make such cuts as they cheated on emissions testing and deserve their share of the punishment that comes the way of VAG.

I can understand Formula E growing in relevance with the push of the EV coming strong now but, and I may have missed the point here, isn't the next generation of Formula E battery being designed and manufactured by McLaren Applied Technologies based on Sony tech? You wonder just how much experience Audi can gain from not being able to run it's own battery tech.

Also, how can it deem WEC no longer relevant yet it thinks DTM is? That series, even though I enjoy it, is a long way behind the more relevant engine tech in SuperGT.

 

[Tajima]

Also, how can it deem WEC no longer relevant yet it thinks DTM is? That series, even though I enjoy it, is a long way behind the more relevant engine tech in SuperGT.

DTM is a cost effective marketing tool compared to WEC. I suspect Formula E is guess what.. yet another marketing tool.

 

[05XR8]

I see it as Audi wanting to dominate in touring cars(GT3/DTM/WTCC/GT4). Despite completely different rules in touring cars, it will be interesting how they will influence each tin-top category with what they've learned from LMP.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

DTM is a cost effective marketing tool compared to WEC. I suspect Formula E is guess what.. yet another marketing tool.

True, I suppose it will be pure marketing of the Audi brand with tech-trickle to production cars being guess what... pushed aside.

Nice avatar!
👍

 

[MustangManiac]

Great points brought by this. https://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/135828-insight-what-audi-meant-to-le-mans

Only if you feel the previous 70 some years of LeMans meant nothing before Audi showed up I have had my disagreements with Pruett from indycar, I mean racer before, but the first sentence of that article has to be one of the dumbest I have ever read in motorsports reporting:

"The Indy 500 is ...? The Daytona 500 is ...? The Monaco Grand Prix is ...? It's hard to find a singular example that belongs at the end of those questions, but the problem doesn't exist in endurance racing: Audi is the 24 Hours of Le Mans."

Some of us have been following endurance racing for decades before Audi and if I live long enough I will be following it for decades after them 👍

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Also, how can it deem WEC no longer relevant yet it thinks DTM is? That series, even though I enjoy it, is a long way behind the more relevant engine tech in SuperGT.

I totally gave up on DTM a few years ago when I realised it wasn't actually motorsport but just politics.

 

[Carlos]

I'm happy Audi filled the gap when there was the need to. They kept it going and went hardcore, but change is not too bad. It could motivate other manufacturers to think about doing LMP1. Who knows...

 

[queleuleu]

LMP1's in their current form make around 1,000hp, have crushed average race speed records, and are better than F1 cars. Let that marinate in your brain for a minute then come back.

Edit: At the same time, unrelated to post above, the speed is also because the costs have sky rocketed. My theory is that LMP2 will eventually take over LMP1's role, and LMP3 will take over LMP2's old role, both in terms of regulations. Or the FIA wise up and make LMP1 to IMSA DPi spec if things hit the fan. And people said GT3 is in trouble....uh huh....yeah....yeah that's so true.

I know it and the 1000hp is just for a few seconds. For me the look is important and the modern LMP1 are ugly IMO. Maybe less aero, and more power. Cornering speed is too high in the Porsche curves. As someone said here, there are so many super cars nowadays, and people love them. Imagine a Laferrari GT1 or Mclaren P1 GT1.

 

[RACECAR]

Only if you feel the previous 70 some years of LeMans meant nothing before Audi showed up

I think you misunderstand what he was saying.

In the absence of Porsche and Ferrari and Ford – the preceding marques that laid La Sarthe's foundation, Audi swept in and redefined the race and the sport as a whole.

Clearly, he isn't dismissing the previous 70 or so years of Le Mans, only saying essentially that Audi are the main reason the race has even stayed relevant when everyone else left in the modern era.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I can see Peugeot filling in the gap. They never ruled out a return when they left the sport.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Yes but probably not until the next rule change in 2018.

 

[aarror]

Radio Le Mans seem pretty convinced BMW is joining in 2018, and Peugeot has said 2 of their 3 requirements for rejoining have been met. Assuming the 2018 regs go the right way, that should be the final domino for them.

 

[fortbo]

Radio Le Mans seem pretty convinced BMW is joining in 2018, and Peugeot has said 2 of their 3 requirements for rejoining have been met. Assuming the 2018 regs go the right way, that should be the final domino for them.

BMW is going to be a GTE though.

 

[aarror]

BMW is going to be a GTE though.

The way Hindy was replying to tweets he made it sound like BMW would be joining LMP1 when the Hydrogen regulations come in

 

[Scuderia Paul]