2017 Rolex Daytona 24 Hour: Results Inside

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RACECAR
Thing is, it did and the winning Ford (Neither the Porsche of Pilet who Bambered a ford out of the way) were penalized. Even the 31 wasn't penalized despite brake checking the 10 on the restart, allowing the sister 5 car to drive away.
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Stewards seemed to be more lenient than usual on the whole, I agree.

Also, I can't believe I completely forgot about Spirit of Daytona's 3rd overall, only a lap off the lead (my pick for the win). ESM/Nissan/Ligier has a pretty good run, and I thought the Mazdas had a few good moments before business resumed as usual for them. :( I like that, even though there were a few problems, most of the prototypes were working at the end, and that can only get better with time.
Interested to see these cars when they get to Sebring, or if IMSA BOP's the Caddies into oblivion (probably not very likely...) .
 
RACECAR
View attachment 623926

Well past the bumper, almost halfway (though the angle makes it look funky)
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In this moment, the #5 also began to fade to the left, or tighten his radius as it were, since the braking zone is curved.

I'm going to asume that the #10 was on the braking limit at this point, so where does he have to go? There's a wall on the left, a car on the right, and if he locks up he'll hit the #5.

It's a tough call, as the blind spots on those cars are probably huge, even if they have the computer screens. But that's a racing incedent at worst, not a penalty. Ideally the #5 should have stayed outside and tried to hold his line down to the inside of the hairpin.
 
twitcher
In this moment, the #5 also began to fade to the left, or tighten his radius as it were, since the braking zone is curved.

I'm going to asume that the #10 was on the braking limit at this point, so where does he have to go? There's a wall on the left, a car on the right, and if he locks up he'll hit the #5.

It's a tough call, as the blind spots on those cars are probably huge, even if they have the computer screens. But that's a racing incedent at worst, not a penalty. Ideally the #5 should have stayed outside and tried to hold his line down to the inside of the hairpin.
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About four laps before, the 5 went wide as well but didn't cut back at that time. Ricky was likely expecting the same to happen.
 
Schmiggz
FOX commentators are astonished how Ricky Taylor doesn't get a penalty!
Over agressive move, they called it.
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Schmiggz
No he was not... But ok. People always have they're believes and opinions and I have mine and it's all cool but I bet any money that if it would happen to any of you in any sim racing, all of you would file an incident report or just rage quit the race.
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GTRacer22
I'd say he was clearly there.
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ProjectWHaT
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Schmiggz
Oh well! It was an American race won by an American guy, right? That's all that matters! America number one, great again! Anything else is landscape. Send the bill to Mexico.
Good racing everyone,
Cheers
:cheers:
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It's a small side, but yes they're alongside each other. And like everyone else is saying #5 should've been way safer there in general just because. He knew #10 was close behind. Whether he knew exactly how close or not, he should still have known he was close enough to be tentative going into Turn 1. Grow up Schmiggz, you've said some silly things here. Maybe you just need some sleep.
 
RACECAR
But here's something else to factor in: That isn't the first time that 5 went wide in Turn 1. Laps before it happen and Ricky was right there to make it happen only for again the 5 to come back and squeeze him towards that pit wall. Its more then like Ricky was expecting the same to happen based on the previous time he got so close, but it played out much differently.



Just gonna skip over the Italian in the car and call racism then? Last I checked this was a race, not the political thread.

Again, I remind you about the Ford and Ferrari moment happening in the exact same fashion (a German behind the wheel By the way) and that too was not penalized.
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No intention of racism or political issues.
People tend to bend the interpretation of facts or rules according to they're interests or sports support. The American won that's all American care.
 
RACECAR
About four laps before, the 5 went wide as well but didn't cut back at that time. Ricky was likely expecting the same to happen.
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Right. And that's not to say that Ricky had the right to assume that the #5 would stay out, but I think it does factor into calling it a racing incident. The #10 had been there before, almost made the move stick, so it's not like it was a desperate lunge from too far back.

#10 made a split second, but calculated, decision, on the limit, and the #5 behaved in a somewhat erratic (minor) way. This ended in the worst kind of contact (they hit side to side quite hard on the lap you're refering to), causing the #5 to spin out. In my opinion, you can't give out penalties for that kind of on edge racing, otherwise I think it just encourages conservative driving while attacking and over aggressive driving while defending. That, and drivers get in the habit of making moves which force the officials to make a call.
 
Also, it seems BoP did very well in balancing GTLM , I would've thought that by the fact that we had Ford, Ferrari, Chevy and Porsche all fighting it out in a close battle throughout the race.
 
My overall thoughts summed up:
  • Seriously great battles and balance in both GT classes.
  • DPi is refreshing but it needs time to get established. Cadillac seemed like the only ones who came with a purpose.
  • PC class constantly spinning all over the track. My thoughts goes out to those of you with traumatized livers.
  • Cold tires. Brendon Hartley's outlap during the night was unbelievable.
  • The new Porsche 911 RSR was surprisingly strong for a back to square one attempt.
 
Check the video above... so clear that Taylor hits the rear wheel of Albuquerque'so car.
Dive bomb - stop and go penalty anywhere in the world.
 
But it wasn't a dive bomb. They were both braking and under braking #10 moved to the right. This left room on the left for #10 to carry more speed. The #5 then turns in like normal and it's just a bad judgement call. This all happens in fractions of a second by the way. Therefore racing incident.
 
Once again, another fine 24 Hours of Daytona. All congratulations to the overall winner and all class winners. As for the controversial hit the #10 put on, I thought it was incidental contact. There didn't seem malicious intent on that hit. I was pretty impressed to see the new Acura NSX GT3. Usual suspects of Ferrari and Porsche were strong in the GT ranks. And of course, great seeing the Ford GT make its presence felt on the track yet again. The Lexus GT cars are very lovely, but too bad luck wasn't really on their side.

Looks like another season of great sportscar racing is off and running. Game on, folks. Bring on the next round!
 
AnthonyD1993
I'm seriously going to have to mute the damn TV because this is irritating the hell out of me. I want to watch the Rolex 24, not the Jeff Gordon 24. Yes, I know he's a huge name and is also a Fox analyst. Yes, I know he's good to have here because he adds publicity to the race, but for the love of god, there's way more going on in the race than just him and the WTR Dpi. If they would do more things like focus on pit stops and the other class battles, that would make it at least manageable.
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The incident between the #5 and #10 is simply like this, even if your blind spot in the prototypes are big, he had enough perception to know that taylor was coming close to him going into turn 1, which by time #5 begins to turn in, its the wrong move because taylor was already on his left side cleanly which incurred the spinout, regardless whether or not you agree that it was an incident incurred by a small mistake or not the point stands that the call was made and finalized, a similar situation that i called on was an american le mans race back in laguna seca some time ago where porsche was battling the corvette, going into the final turn the vette braked late which gave it the lead on a clean overtake goin into the straight, but the porsche then responded by getting next to it and flat out shoved it into the wall to steal the win, in which the stewards didnt penalize on
 
RoyalKINGz
The incident between the #5 and #10 is simply like this, even if your blind spot in the prototypes are big, he had enough perception to know that taylor was coming close to him going into turn 1, which by time #5 begins to turn in, its the wrong move because taylor was already on his left side cleanly which incurred the spinout, regardless whether or not you agree that it was an incident incurred by a small mistake or not the point stands that the call was made and finalized, a similar situation that i called on was an american le mans race back in laguna seca some time ago where porsche was battling the corvette, going into the final turn the vette braked late which gave it the lead on a clean overtake goin into the straight, but the porsche then responded by getting next to it and flat out shoved it into the wall to steal the win, in which the stewards didnt penalize on
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The difference between that 2009 incident and this is that the shove on the Vette should have been a penalty, this is a racing incident. The Porsche took the Vette all the way to the pit wall and was out paced in a drag race up the hill. Then kept moving more and more left to squeeze the Vette, never let up and resulted in spinning out the vette and causing a hard wreck.

Here both cars broke and the WTR Cadi had to go to the left of the Action Express because he was carrying much more speed in the braking zone than the Action express. He closed in and had much more grip through that area, and Albuqurque allowed this from a slight mistake on entry. The problem is Albuqurque tries to close the door or turning in to the racing line, however Taylor is there and the rest is on video in this thread. Everyone knows even in F1 that if you're that far up on a leading car and said leading car tries to shut the door on you, it either results in a racing incident or a penalty on the lead car due to avoidable contact.

A dive bomb as some of those with clouded judgement are making claim to, is when a driver does what Raikkonen did to Bottas in Russia in 2015, where Bottas had already braked, was in the apex making the turn, and Kimi drove up and ran into him. There was never any space to make this pass, and the only reason it appears that Raikkonen gets along side is because he decided to brake much much later. This here isn't that. There was room, they were both on the brakes at the same time, and the WTR just had better grip through it and Albuqurque checked up far too late.
 
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LMSCorvetteGT2
The difference between that 2009 incident and this is that the shove on the Vette should have been a penalty, this is a racing incident. The Porsche too the Vette all the way to the pit wall and was out paced in a drag race up the hill. Then kept moving more and more left to squeeze the Vette, never let up and resulted in spinning out the vette and causing a hard wreck.

Here both cars broke and the WTR Cadi had to go to the left of the Action Express because he was carrying much more speed in the braking zone than the Action express. He closed in and had much more grip through that area, and Albuqurque allowed this from a slight mistake on entry. The problem is Albuqurque tries to close the door or turning in to the racing line, however Taylor is there and the rest is on video in this thread. Everyone knows even in F1 that if you're that far up on a leading car and said leading car tries to shut the door on you, it either results in a racing incident or a penalty on the lead car due to avoidable contact.

A dive bomb as some of those with clouded judgement are making claim to, is when a driver does what Raikkonen did to Bottas in Russia in 2015, where Bottas had already braked, was in the apex making the turn, and Kimi drove up and ran into him. There was never any space to make this pass, and the only reason it appears that Raikkonen gets along side is because he decided to brake much much later. This here isn't that. There was room, they were both on the brakes at the same time, and the WTR just had better grip through it and Albuqurque checked up far too late.
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And i agree with your point on it, regardless we see things like this all the time whether it be autosport or in a more similar fashion a football game where the officials simply jus let the game play, albuquerque will jus have to not get too held up on this and be more prepared for sebring where tight racing like that in most corners there would result in a wall collision at the very least, tho that crash is too similar to most sim racing incidents, cept in those cases its usually the guy up front with a touch of too much lag on him that ultimately screws it up
 
I don't have a clue why some people on the internet refuse to acknowledge that racing incidents happen. The #10 should have realized he wasn't going to be able to complete the pass and backed off while the #5 should have realized there was a car very close behind him and therefor shouldn't have made such a sudden move. In other words they both had a stupid and neither one is more to blame than the other.

I was hoping the #5 would have hung on and won as Gordon didn't drive that car but such is life. The real crime is how little attention the GT classes received.
 
Northstar
I don't have a clue why some people on the internet refuse to acknowledge that racing incidents happen. The #10 should have realized he wasn't going to be able to complete the pass and backed off while the #5 should have realized there was a car very close behind him and therefor shouldn't have made such a sudden move. In other words they both had a stupid and neither one is more to blame than the other.

I was hoping the #5 would have hung on and won as Gordon didn't drive that car but such is life. The real crime is how little attention the GT classes received.
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I blame Fords prototype for creating a reason to not show GTLM much. Was hoping the new Porsche could win it from them, and even with it being faster...still not enough. Maybe they should have developed a H6 turbo like that of speculation last year.
 
Northstar
I was hoping the #5 would have hung on and won as Gordon didn't drive that car but such is life. The real crime is how little attention the GT classes received.
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But the fact that Gordon drove the #10 makes it an even bigger feat for WTR since he really held them back with his slower pace. Even with Gordon in the car, they managed to take the win, which is pretty impressive if you ask me. :sly:
 
Northstar
I don't have a clue why some people on the internet refuse to acknowledge that racing incidents happen. The #10 should have realized he wasn't going to be able to complete the pass and backed off while the #5 should have realized there was a car very close behind him and therefor shouldn't have made such a sudden move. In other words they both had a stupid and neither one is more to blame than the other.

I was hoping the #5 would have hung on and won as Gordon didn't drive that car but such is life. The real crime is how little attention the GT classes received.
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Bcuz nascar guys follow gordon
 
It looks like the #10 wasn't far enough alongside at the point of contact, so it seems like a fairly simple decision to penalise Taylor. My guess is that he wasn't penalised because Jeff Gordon winning was a better 'story' then seeing a group of international drivers take it out.

On top of this, it seems to me that American racing in general has very 'lax' standards when it comes to racing etiquette. Perhaps a bit of NASCAR's Wild Wild West culture has rubbed off on their other racing series (just speculating here).
 
JayOTT
It looks like the #10 wasn't far enough alongside at the point of contact, so it seems like a fairly simple decision to penalise Taylor. My guess is that he wasn't penalised because Jeff Gordon winning was a better 'story' then seeing a group of international drivers take it out.

On top of this, it seems to me that American racing in general has very 'lax' standards when it comes to racing etiquette. Perhaps a bit of NASCAR's Wild Wild West culture has rubbed off on their other racing series (just speculating here).
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Or they haven't gone the European way of penilizing so much as an unfriendly look.

He was 1/3 along side, should have been given room. #5 turned in to his peril. Racing incedent, not a penalty, and miles from a "because 'murica" conspiracy :lol:
 
I've watched the footage of the move. It's a shame to see a battle end in contact but sometimes it happens.

I don't think the move had any point to it. Didn't seem to be up far enough to take the spot in the corner or the exit, so I'm not sure why he attempted it. But, the #5 didn't need to chop across the nose either, since he would have held the spot.

I only watched bits and pieces but it seemed relatively consistent in letting more of those incidents go without penalty then most series have lately. Trying to encourage tough racing I suppose.
 
Move wasn't on IMO. To those saying that the #10 ran wide or missed his braking, that's the standard line into the turn. It's a double apex corner with the first apex at the grass, let it run out to the right and then cut back in for the second apex. Every car, every lap, that's how it's done. You can hug the left side the whole way into the corner if you like (as the #5 did) but then there's no way you're properly making the corner, certainly not with room for another car - and that's why I can't agree with the move.


Using my extremely budget ms.paint skills, I put together a comparison of the lines taken during the incident and by the #10 on one of the laps afterwards. The shots are at different zooms, but you can get a good idea of the car placement by looking at the lines in the track:

wiSoW0N.jpg


2HMvV49.jpg


Note that the #10 on it's own takes the exact same line as the #5 was on, because that's the racing line. Also compare the position of the #10 in the final part of both sequences - hugging the white line all the way through like it did and you blow well wide of the corner. Where does that leave the #5? He can't just keep on driving straight ahead, at some point he needs to turn into the corner...

All that aside though, what does my opinion count for? Not much. Rules are rules and in American racing, that sort of move is perfectly legal. Encouraged, even. Which is a real shame, because I think it immensely devalues the genuine skills of passing and defending and in my view, hurts the racing. But that's ok, because I don't make the decisions!

(Had no vested interested in #5 vs #10 and despite the complaints, will still be watching again next time).

Edit: So much lack of care between #5 vs #10 that I even got confused as to which was which.
 
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