2018 Gulf Air Bahrain Grand PrixFormula 1
- Thread starter SVT Cobra GT
- 310 comments
- 15,335 views
McLaren
Premium
- 45,620
- Texas
Their official FB page shows the incident as part of their highlight reel. It definitely is gut-wrenching to watch.
That seems rather... small. I would've figured at least 6 figures due to such a severe injury.
Then again, I'm used to sports here in the US where just bad mouthing officials is at least $25,000.
- 6,293
- Canada
You guys are being too simple in thinking about this.
Obviously these terrible race cars need pit stops to be able to provide any kind of excitement on Sunday.
If the formula was designed better, we wouldn’t need pit stops to spice up the action.
I tune into to F1 to watch the best drivers race each other on track. I don’t give a rat’s ass about watching some bloke change a wheel. If I wanted that, I’d watch Formula Mechanix.
Pit stops an required in endurance racing, due to the length of the race. Their existence in F1 is purely artificial.
As far as benefits?
- cheaper
- greener
- more road relevance in terms of tire wear
- true racing, to see who is the fastest driver, in the fastest car. Again, I don’t care about who is most clever with their tire selection and whatnot.
And again...if you want to see all that pit stop jazz, there’s a dozen other series out there that run endurance length races where you can get your pit stop rocks off. But again, for you guys, F1 needs to be all things to all people, because it’s the only racing series gat exists.
When I watch F1, I want to see Ham vs Vet vs Alo vs Max vs Dan etc. I don’t care at all to hear about Ferrari’s pitwall battling Merc’s pitwall. You know where I watch Ferrari vs Merc vs Porsche vs Chevy vs Ford etc? WEC, where team competition and endurance strategy belong.
Watch any F1 race from recent times. How much time do the commentary team spend talking about strategy, all the numbers that the scientists back at base have cruched. Now contrast that with how much time they spend talking about driving technique, overtaking, defending position.
It’s time for F1 to evolve. I’m fully aware that team battles and pit stops have been part of the past, but it’s time to move on. There are other series better equipped to stage team vs team strategy battles. F1 should be the ultimate driver’s competition, nothing else.
And saying, “well, pit stops are part of racing,” that’s like saying tying your shoes is part of the 100m dash. No one cares to watch Mr Bolt put his shoes on...people just want to see him run flat out. Same thing with F1. Shoes go on before the race, race flat out, shoes come of.
Laslty, the worry of “do you know how boring F1 would be without pit stops”....ya, I have a pretty good idea. Maybe it would be so boring it would force the rule makers to make a change.
Would I lose any sleep if F1 became boring before it turned itself around? Nope. I can just watch MotoGP, Supercars, WEC, touring cars, Super GT, or any other host of series that haven’t let their rule set spiral so far out of control that there’s no real feasible way to right the ship.
I’m fully aware most wont agree with me, as unlike most, I’m not in love with F1, and think it’s basically the armpit of motorsports.
Obviously these terrible race cars need pit stops to be able to provide any kind of excitement on Sunday.
If the formula was designed better, we wouldn’t need pit stops to spice up the action.
I tune into to F1 to watch the best drivers race each other on track. I don’t give a rat’s ass about watching some bloke change a wheel. If I wanted that, I’d watch Formula Mechanix.
Pit stops an required in endurance racing, due to the length of the race. Their existence in F1 is purely artificial.
As far as benefits?
- cheaper
- greener
- more road relevance in terms of tire wear
- true racing, to see who is the fastest driver, in the fastest car. Again, I don’t care about who is most clever with their tire selection and whatnot.
And again...if you want to see all that pit stop jazz, there’s a dozen other series out there that run endurance length races where you can get your pit stop rocks off. But again, for you guys, F1 needs to be all things to all people, because it’s the only racing series gat exists.
When I watch F1, I want to see Ham vs Vet vs Alo vs Max vs Dan etc. I don’t care at all to hear about Ferrari’s pitwall battling Merc’s pitwall. You know where I watch Ferrari vs Merc vs Porsche vs Chevy vs Ford etc? WEC, where team competition and endurance strategy belong.
Watch any F1 race from recent times. How much time do the commentary team spend talking about strategy, all the numbers that the scientists back at base have cruched. Now contrast that with how much time they spend talking about driving technique, overtaking, defending position.
It’s time for F1 to evolve. I’m fully aware that team battles and pit stops have been part of the past, but it’s time to move on. There are other series better equipped to stage team vs team strategy battles. F1 should be the ultimate driver’s competition, nothing else.
And saying, “well, pit stops are part of racing,” that’s like saying tying your shoes is part of the 100m dash. No one cares to watch Mr Bolt put his shoes on...people just want to see him run flat out. Same thing with F1. Shoes go on before the race, race flat out, shoes come of.
Laslty, the worry of “do you know how boring F1 would be without pit stops”....ya, I have a pretty good idea. Maybe it would be so boring it would force the rule makers to make a change.
Would I lose any sleep if F1 became boring before it turned itself around? Nope. I can just watch MotoGP, Supercars, WEC, touring cars, Super GT, or any other host of series that haven’t let their rule set spiral so far out of control that there’s no real feasible way to right the ship.
I’m fully aware most wont agree with me, as unlike most, I’m not in love with F1, and think it’s basically the armpit of motorsports.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Can you please just make another topic for your cause already instead clogging up the race thread? Thanks
- 6,293
- Canada
Ahh yes, the classic GTP “you’re off topic” rebuttle.
Clogging up the race thread? The race is done...what more would you like to talk about?
And this is related to the race, as it’s a result of Kimi’s pit stop in the race.
Do we need to create a new thread for every F1 related thought?
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,602
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
Do you tune in to watch a motor RACE or do you tune in to watch a pitstop competition?
The problem with F1 is that the pitstops are contrived. All they need do is give the teams a choice of tyres and complete freedom of use. If you want hard tyres and a none stop run or soft tyres and several stops doesnt matter. It should be up to the teams.
- 1,693
- Connecticut
- GroupB
One is part of the other.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Learn to separate things!
- 29,955
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
An impossibility.
When Pirelli took over the exclusive tyre contract in 2010 they were told to deliberately make tyres that wear faster after tyres had become a non-factor and drivers were able to nurture them for longer and longer. Lo and behold, fans were in uproar that Pirelli tyres went off after 17 laps because "Pirelli are rubbish at making tyres, seriously, are these things made of cheese?"
You cannot win. It doesn't matter whether they are the best specialist race tyres in the world which drivers can make last forever or if they are deliberately lacking in durability in the name of 'excitement', fans will always complain.
I would argue that just on the topic of tyres, the series should open up to more than one supplier. More choices for the teams would give a more authentic sense of excitement if one team uses Pirelli and another uses Goodyear rather than both teams using rigged Pirellis.
- 6,293
- Canada
2nd time you’ve said this....care to elaborate?
So far this morning you’ve suggested that racecar should be slow and easy to control at the limit; and have randomly blurred out “Learn to separate things”
Are you feeling ok? Do you need to see a doctor?
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
You were making very broad statements that don't really work in real world application. It's not how a logical argument works. But forget it, you want to have your in my opinion wacky ideas and opinions and that's that.
- 6,293
- Canada
I’m fully aware that was the reaction of the fans at the time. In my opinion, that’s because majority of fans still want pit stops and pit strategy to be part of F1. Me personally, I want to see F1 be pure sprint racing with no pit stops, except to change from wets to dries or dries to wets (or inters).
And I do agree that a tire war between two manufacturers would be exciting, but at the same time, not entirely necessary. Again I turn to MotoGP for an example. 1 supplier, brings a selection of compounds, riders pick their favourite, and ride it for a full race. I don’t see why the same couldn’t happen in F1 (would require lots of changes in many areas, but in theory, I don’t see it being impossible).
Edit:
My statements haven’t been any more broad than yours. You’ve talked yourself so far out into left field I’m not even sure what sport you’re playing anymore.
DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Excuse me for not knowing all the words to express myself properly so let's just agree to disagree at this point.
- 29,955
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
The only season Formula One banned tyre changes was the same year only 14 cars were not allowed to start the United States Grand Prix because their tyres were unsafe. It's different now, Formula One doesn't even race at Indianapolis any more, but the stresses Formula One tyres go through mean that under the current race distances it's just too dangerous to prohibit tyre changes.
Or if you mean you choose your compound and can change tyres but only on that compound, I think the teams would all quickly calculate which would be the fastest tyre factoring in pit stops.
As always, there's no one answer to any issue. It takes a lot of factors.
- 6,293
- Canada
Indy ‘05 was an acceptional situation, and I don’t think fare to use an a reason to mandate tire changes.
14 didn’t start...but 6 did. Michelin could have brought a more durable compound like Bridgestone did.
Furthermore, looking at today’s endurance racing, with teams double stinting tires are circuits like Spa and Silverstone, I think the technology and know how exists to create an F1 tire that could last a full race (and as you mentioned, it’s been done in the not so distant past, with one extraordinary race sticking out).
- 946
- Netherlands
- Shottah072
- 6,293
- Canada
You’re probably right, and I’m ok with that.
That said - and before I continue I want to be crystal clear that I am in now way hoping that anyone else gets hurt in the pit lane - with how concerned over safety culture F1 is, how many more pit lane injuries of the broken leg or worse level will be allowed to happen before health and safety people say enough is enough?
If a 2 second pit stop is too fast to ensure proper procedures and checks are done (because let’s face it, making sure all the wheels are on the wagon is pretty important), then what? Would you be in favor of manditory minimum pitstop times, like in pro-am GT racing?
I suppose another solution would be to reduce the number of crew working on the car. While in my “ideal F1 of the future”, there would be no pit stops, if they must be there, then I would be more in favor of Super Formula style pit stops. Minimal number of crew over the wall, but each of them needs to put in a super human effort. You can actually see the person doing the work, instead of the coloured blob that swarms the car for 2 seconds.
Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the difficulty it takes to choreograph a 2 second stop, and the precision needed to pull it off....but if I’m going to watch a sport for entertainment, I’d rather watch fewer people do more things, so their individual performances are pushed more to the limit.
- 13,077
- United Kingdom
We saw last year that every car on the same strategy led to boring racing.
Bahrain saw 1 and 2 stoppers, which mixed everything up and made the race work.
After all this time waiting for a good race, one happens and the knee jerk reaction is that something is wrong and therefore we must find something to complain about. Come on guys, grow up...
Bahrain saw 1 and 2 stoppers, which mixed everything up and made the race work.
After all this time waiting for a good race, one happens and the knee jerk reaction is that something is wrong and therefore we must find something to complain about. Come on guys, grow up...
- 6,293
- Canada
Cars on the same strategy is only boring because these cars aren’t designed to race other cars on the same strategy. Theyre designed to hot lap in clean air.
Pit stops and artificially degrading tires are not the one and only way to make the racing more exciting.
Designing cars that can follow closer than 2 seconds from each other would be a good place to start.
And why with the grandpa routine? We’re just having a friendly back and forth about F1. Aren’t there more Worst circuits in the world you could go discuss or something?
- 13,077
- United Kingdom
There's nothing artificial about the tyres degrading. They physically degrade at that rate. Seems pretty physical and measurable...
All I'm merely pointing out is that the modern culture is to complain about things whether they need complaining about or not. If you're incapable of looking at something without saying "it was better in my day" (regardless of whether it was or not), then you need to seriously rethink everything and shut up. All you're doing is annoying people who visit this site for good discussion, news and banter.
All I'm merely pointing out is that the modern culture is to complain about things whether they need complaining about or not. If you're incapable of looking at something without saying "it was better in my day" (regardless of whether it was or not), then you need to seriously rethink everything and shut up. All you're doing is annoying people who visit this site for good discussion, news and banter.
Your arguments make no sense. Plus, you decide to disregard my opinions, but then still talk about why I'm wrong. If you don't want to listen to me, don't waste your time writing stuff I'm not going to bother to read.
- 6,293
- Canada
I’m not really complaigning, just pointing out things I think could be changed for the better. Not once in this discussion have I made a reference to “better in my day”. I don’t think F1 needs to turn back the clock, it needs to keep moving forward.
And telling me to shut up? Really? How sensitive are you that you can’t handle someone having an opinion different from yours. Your skin is that thin, that my posting on an Internet forum is enough to annoy you....and you’re the one in here telling people to grow up. Jim, you need to have a word with yourself.
I’m not disgregarding your opinions, I’m disagreeing. I’m listening to what you’re saying, just not buying it.
This is way off topic now, so I’m done.
- 23,800
- Philippines
Suffered through one season of single-tire races. Wouldn't want to do that again.
Look, F1 is all about pushing limits. It's a three-hundred plus kilometer race, run at over three-hundred kilometers per hour. No ABS. No traction control. Tires get damaged. Flat-spotted. Grained. They overheat. They lose grip. That's natural. MotoGP? A modern F1 tire can do the same distance as a MotoGP tire (MotoGP, 120km a race, F1, 305 kms, sometimes on just two sets of tires), while putting up with nearly five times the cornering Gs and braking Gs.
That ONE season where they didn't allow tire changes was one of the worst we ever had. This was the middle of the Trulli Train era, where cars had difficulty passing slower cars that had managed, somehow, to catapult themselves into a super-high qualifying position with a killer quali lap on extremely low fuel. A situation made even worse when you factored in tire degradation and no in-race refueling, cars were barge-heavy at the start and needed to save tires and fuel... and continued doing so until the last few laps... when you didn't really have enough grip left to do anything.
There's a reason they brought back tire changes. It's because watching slow cars save tires for two hours was boring as hell.
I do dislike the artificial tire rules... but the current formula (one required, two optional) is as good as it's been for a while. Having drivers able to mix up endurance and qualifying tires within the race opens up a lot of strategies and on-track action.
-
F1 has never been "perfect". Not even during the Senna or Schumacher eras (back then, I liked CART better. Much messier racing. More overtaking. Also, Zanardi). Granted, there has been something missing for a while, but going backwards isn't necessarily going to fix it.
Look, F1 is all about pushing limits. It's a three-hundred plus kilometer race, run at over three-hundred kilometers per hour. No ABS. No traction control. Tires get damaged. Flat-spotted. Grained. They overheat. They lose grip. That's natural. MotoGP? A modern F1 tire can do the same distance as a MotoGP tire (MotoGP, 120km a race, F1, 305 kms, sometimes on just two sets of tires), while putting up with nearly five times the cornering Gs and braking Gs.
That ONE season where they didn't allow tire changes was one of the worst we ever had. This was the middle of the Trulli Train era, where cars had difficulty passing slower cars that had managed, somehow, to catapult themselves into a super-high qualifying position with a killer quali lap on extremely low fuel. A situation made even worse when you factored in tire degradation and no in-race refueling, cars were barge-heavy at the start and needed to save tires and fuel... and continued doing so until the last few laps... when you didn't really have enough grip left to do anything.
There's a reason they brought back tire changes. It's because watching slow cars save tires for two hours was boring as hell.
I do dislike the artificial tire rules... but the current formula (one required, two optional) is as good as it's been for a while. Having drivers able to mix up endurance and qualifying tires within the race opens up a lot of strategies and on-track action.
-
F1 has never been "perfect". Not even during the Senna or Schumacher eras (back then, I liked CART better. Much messier racing. More overtaking. Also, Zanardi). Granted, there has been something missing for a while, but going backwards isn't necessarily going to fix it.
- 3,600
- Middelburg
Completely off topic but (I think it is) funny though. Gasly for a "walk" in the park.
- 6,293
- Canada
All fair points, I can’t disagree with any of them.
I wasn’t suggesting dropping pit stops for next race, or next season - because like you say, with these cats, races would be really boring. I’m thinking more 2021 and beyond. If the cars didn’t rely on pit strategy to create action, maybe we wouldn’t need pit stops. That’s all I’ve really been saying, but apparently that’s too much for some (not you specifically)
Similar threads
