2021 F1 Driver ThreadFormula 1
- Thread starter TenEightyOne
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Max got in trouble for that comment as well. The team issued an announcement saying it's against their values and Max made an apology.
It was also said on his team radio, he wasn't actually saying it *to* Stroll. Racism isn't excusable but let's not equate their actions here.
It was also said on his team radio, he wasn't actually saying it *to* Stroll. Racism isn't excusable but let's not equate their actions here.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
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Mongol used as an offensive term is nothing to do with race, it is an ableist word used as an insult to describe someone as an idiot. "Mongol" and other derivatives of it is an archaic and inaccurate description used for Down's Syndrome - hence why both Mongolia and Down's Syndrome affected people were horrified by its use. The syndrome has nothing to do with Mongolia and the Mongolian people and has been reviled since the 60's.
But yes, Max still hasn't apologised even though an entire country is outraged against him, which is not good from the Dutchman.
It doesn't contradicts anything. He apologised to the people who found it offensive. I don't know how to identify the status of this girl, but her recent stories show that she's still having fun with Nikita.
The most sexually assaulted victims at this point are reddit trolls. Girl need to speak out for herself, then we could call it as sexual assault.
Can't agree more on this. His behaviour doesn't correspond with his new role. His followers in IG surged twice in last few weeks so he need to work on it.
So we came to indulgence the offensive words referring to the people with Down's syndrome? This topic became weirder with every post.
At first it doesn't make much sense. It's like Nikita would say that Russians punch everyone in a face (which is not true) as national tradition and we should indulge that Illott's incident. It doesn't work that way.
Secondary, as Dutch, do you really use word representing Down's syndrome as offensive and Max used it to the Stroll publicly?
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Scaff
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A few things to unpack here.
First, stop multi-posting, we have a perfectly good edit and multi-quote tool, so please use them rather than just hitting reply and posting a stream of posts. I've edited these ones together, but please do not do this in future.
Now on the question of does someone need to report sexual assault before it becomes sexual assault? Nope, it's never worked like that and nor should it ever work like that, people have literally died when that kind of thinking was the norm.
Next up, Max being an ableist bigot (which is exactly what he was in the case being discussed) is a separate conversation, it has no bearing on if this was acceptable or not, and nor would it matter if she was his girlfriend or if they were/are/will be in a relationship, that doesn't suddenly mean you can sexually assault someone. If its unwanted contact, without consent, then the status of the relationship doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
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Scaff
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You don't get to retcon this one, the behaviour in question is quite clearly unacceptable and to be blunt is also not the first time his behaviour towards women has been questioned.
It's not a hill I would say is worth dying on, well unless you are actually condoning sexual assault and harassment.
Unnaccaptable behaviour doesn't mean to end the career of young driver, Max's insults and Hamilton's anti-vaccine posts are unacceptable too. That case was cleared from both sides and there is no reason to bring absurd points that someone could condone sexual assault and harassment.
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First Impressions are something you can't remove from people's mind. Dan Ticktum has the same issue where the first time we heard of him was being a tool on track. This is likely the first thing a lot of people have seen Nikita Mazepin do. A good bunch of careers were derailed or ended throughout lockdown for other trivial but inexcusable things (Abt's fake driver stunt, the NASCAR driver's racial slurs etc). In the cancel culture of the day, one bad thing can harm your image, but in the case of Mazepin this clearly isn't a first time thing. He has 4 years of inexcusable and questionable incidents all culminating in him celebrating his capturing the seat of an F1 team by continuing to be a mindless idiot flexing on Social Media. If you're going to do something stupid like sexual assault, don't compound the idiocy by filming it and posting it on your account.
Scaff
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And there you go again, attempting to blur the discussion with whataboutism.
Please keep in mind that I've not defended either of those things (in fact I quite clearly condemned Max when you brought that up, and those who know me on here will also know my stance on anti-vax), but rather that you seem to be happy to repeatedly defend the actions of a driver who has not one incident in this area, but multiple ones.
Let me make this quite simple for you, do you condemn Mazepin's actions?
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
It turns out that if you act like a pillock, people will respond like you're a pillock. After a point the answer is just to try not to be a pillock, and to not only apologise, but show that you've learned and your behaviour has changed if you do act like one. Right now Mazepin is failing to do that. He's a long way past the point where he can do that. If he doesn't want to be a walking pile of bad publicity he needs to get out of the spotlight and take a long hard look at himself.
But money is everything in F1 right now, so that's not going to happen.
But money is everything in F1 right now, so that's not going to happen.
Scaff
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Then you are, logically, quite happy to condone sexual assault, sexual harassment, racism, physical assault and poor sportsmanship.
These are all things that Mazepin has done, hell he's even apologised or found to have factually done them by sporting bodies, for doing most of them, so it's not exactly as if he doesn't acknowledge they have happened.
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No, I don't condone sexual assault, sexual harassment, racism, physical assault. Nobody in clear mind would condone it.
If Nikita would did anything from this list, he wouldn't just kicked out of racing, but he would be in jail now.
You should use criminal terms more carefully, because you just devaluate them.
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- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
Do you seriously use Kweli's quote in signature?
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2...-banned-from-twitter-after-dispute-with-woman
Scaff
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And yet you do!
So you're saying that he didn't grab a woman in a sexual manner and post it on social media? He didn't ask a female F1 fan to send him nudes? He did punch a driver in the face twice? He didn't both make racially abusive comments and support a fan of his who did the same? He didn't earn an absurd number of penalities for poor sportmanship in regard to his treatment of other drivers on the track?
You see, you seem to be under some absurd belief that unless some one actually gets arrested, charged and sentenced for something then it didn't happen or wasn't wrong, which is to be blunt inane.
You also seem to have forgotten that in a number of these areas he has either admitted them or actually been found guilty of them (those points on his racing licence aren't for being nice to people).
Look it's not difficult. I greatly admire LH, but utterly condemn his anti-vax post, I think Senna was one of the greatest drivers ever but I firmly condemn his deliberate crash into Prost.
Nope, that would be what happens when you openly condone people who carry them out.
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- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
I found the behaviour of Nikita abhorrent and don't support any of these actions. He should work with himself to improve these sides of his personality. Also he need to improve his driving skills to compete Mick in the next season. Is it clear to you?
Nope, you should use term 'sexual assault' for the victims who was really physically assaulted, for other non-criminal actions you should use different terms, like 'sexual actions'.
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"Assault" is when you touch someone who does not want to be touched. It does not require injury (as opposed to, for example, "battery", which does). He grabbed a girl's breast and she tried to get his hand off her breast. That's sexual assault.
It's pretty clear that Mazepin is an all-round terrible person who engages in behaviour entirely incompatible with F1's "we race as one" message. I have no idea why anyone would bother to even attempt to defend him.
The fact that other drivers have also, occasionally, fallen below this particular standard isn't relevant to the fact Mazepin does it, and does it so frequently.
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- Spaceman47y0
Money. It cleanses everything, but only if you have enough of it. I hoped against hope that Haas would think longer and harder about hiring a butthat. Unfortunately they need the almighty dollar so Nicky Miizapin (he looks like a Mii head on a human body right? Or is it just me that sees that?) continues to ride daddys pocketbook to the top.
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- St.Pete, FL
- NotThePrez
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Nope, that's not how that works. Touching a person without their consent is Assault. Grabbing a woman's breast without their consent (which is what's being communicated when the woman tries to remove Mazepin's hand from her chest) is Sexual Assault. Doesn't matter if the other party is injured or not. The fact that you're going out of your way to defend this is extremely concerning.
Also, you again seem to be unwilling to address Mazepin's documented actions of assaulting other drivers, sexually harassing a female fan, defending racist fans, and putting other driver's lives at risk while racing. Actions that you yourself have claimed Mazepin has not commited.
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Dotini
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Money is the mother's milk of motor racing, and always has been. That's a simple fact of life.
Another fact is that many if not most of all racing drivers are antisocial assholes. The pros are expected and trained to get their act together.
A third fact is that is far easier to instruct a driver to slow down than it is to get him to go faster.
If Nikita is truly fast, he's worth trying to train up as a pro. IMHO, he should be given a chance, but thrown to the side should he cock up. The world is floating with money.
Another fact is that many if not most of all racing drivers are antisocial assholes. The pros are expected and trained to get their act together.
A third fact is that is far easier to instruct a driver to slow down than it is to get him to go faster.
If Nikita is truly fast, he's worth trying to train up as a pro. IMHO, he should be given a chance, but thrown to the side should he cock up. The world is floating with money.
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You're not wrong, but at the same time a line has to be drawn somewhere. F1 and the teams talked this year about being welcoming to all, fighting against inequality and creating a diverse grid of the best drivers in the world. Then, it proceeds goes out of its way to chase Saudi money to hold a race, has a team that is ok with signing a driver that has demonstrated himself to be an actual liability, and signs said driver when much faster, less dangerous options are on the table, simply because of money.
At a certain point, it gives F1 a bad look (or an even worse look, depending on your perspective), and as such makes it harder for potential fans and sponsors to take the sport seriously. It's a short-term gain, long-term loss scenario.
Yes, but generally speaking most drivers also have their act together well before approaching the top level. The problem is that Mazepin not only doesn't have his act together, but in the same week as being announced as a future F1 driver, endangered his fellow drivers multiple times, and recorded himself in engaging in unbecoming activity of not just a race driver, but as a decent human being. Doesn't exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence.
Now, if Mazepin miraculously pulls a Kyle Larson between now and the end of the '21 season, then I'll admit my judgement was wrong.
I definitely think that Mazepin is quick, but his personal actions and, much more importantly, his overall racecraft makes him a liability and a demonstrable danger to his fellow drivers. And if this year's F2 championship is anything to go by, there are a decent number of drivers that can potentially perform just as well or even better than he, but without being an unnecessary jackass.
Quite frankly, while I generally hate when people talk about who "deserves" to be in F1, I do not think that Mazepin has at all earned a seat on the grid. He's fast, but his racecraft and his actions make him both a PR and on-track liability, and there are at least two other Ferrari Junior drivers that could probably run just as well or better without those issues. The fact that those drivers (as well as Schumacher) don't appear to have adequate sponsorship is honestly a little baffling.
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