2021 FIA Series Race Discussion

  • Thread starter GTPNewsWire
  • 9,031 comments
  • 1,681,764 views
My new set o' wheels!

7350463945749070868_0.jpg
 
kinda bored with this weeks combos, and my new alt hasn't yet built up enough capital to purchase a Gr.1 car sooooooooo...... I spent the better part of 2 hours testing cars for the new Manu season. My euro Alt is with Renault (mistake because the Gr.3 car blows.....but the slophy was good at Laguna Seca so I went with that). My main is with Ferrari....which was also a mistake because that Gr.3 car is very difficult to drive. This new Merica' alt will be my chance to get it right I suppose. I tested Gr.4 cars at Interlagos and Gr.3 cars at Brands Hatch.

I wanted to give the Scooby's a second look. I almost liked the Gr.3 WRX at NGP 2 weeks ago, and I really liked it at Catalunya last week. The Gr.4 car was actually one of the very first cars I purchased 2ish years ago when I got this game, but I couldn't handle the massive understeer on the throttle in corners. Looking back, my not getting along with the GR4 WRX was a direct result of me sucking REAL bad at the time. Welp, I took it around Interlagos on RM's (all cars I tested today were on RM's) and the car fit like a glove. I was extremely consistent in it, not to mention the car stuck like glue. Now I know the WRX's aren't very good with tire wear, but at any rate, it felt much better than the other 2 cars I tested. Another thing I noticed was that I didn't necessarily have to be on the race line to get the car to flow. All good stuff when actually in a race. I tested the Gr.3 Scooby at Brand's and it was great. Maybe not as good as a Porsche or other not super twitchy MR car..... but good enough to take a handling circuit like Brand's very aggressively.

The next car I tested was the Gr.4 Porsche at Interlagos. I have a lot of time in the 911 RSR. Whenever I enter a race and don't know which car to pick, the RSR is my warm blanket. After a lot of laps, I got the car figured out enough where I could be consistent, but it didn't have the pace of the WRX. Actually, I was like 1/2-3/4 second off my Scooby pace. I didn't even bother testing the RSR at Brands cause I already knew I liked it.

Next up was the Mustang.... a car I've been hearing a lot about around here for the last little bit. I have no experience with this car whatsoever so I took my time getting used to the Gr4 at Interlagos. Truth be told, I got to where I liked this car. Truth be told, I got to where I could get pretty consistent with it. Truth be told, my fastest lap at Interlagos the whole day was with the Mustang (by a whopping 1/2 second!). Buuuuutt....the only problem I had with this car was I needed to be extremely consistent lap after lap in order to get this car to work. If I deviated from the race line the car was a tad skatey and my lap times suffered. And compared to WRX where I could put it anywhere and it would stick....I surmised that the WRX is the better "race car". Buuuuuut..... I knew I could get used to the intricacies. I knew I could figure out how to "baby-doll" it into corners. Not to mention I loved the power spread of that Mustang!! So it all hinged on how I liked the gr.3 car at Brands. To be honest, it was just about a non-starter from the first lap. I use cockpit view exclusively and the Gr.3 mustang was difficult to see out of. Not as bad as a Pug RCZ, but bad nonetheless.

I'm willing to try a few more cars tomorrow if anyone has suggestions. I don't have a lot of experience with a Gr.4 BMW, and I have no experience with the Lexus in any trim..... or a lot of the Euro brands for that matter.


Someone educate me!!
 
Yard_Sale
kinda bored with this weeks combos, and my new alt hasn't yet built up enough capital to purchase a Gr.1 car sooooooooo...... I spent the better part of 2 hours testing cars for the new Manu season. My euro Alt is with Renault (mistake because the Gr.3 car blows.....but the slophy was good at Laguna Seca so I went with that). My main is with Ferrari....which was also a mistake because that Gr.3 car is very difficult to drive. This new Merica' alt will be my chance to get it right I suppose. I tested Gr.4 cars at Interlagos and Gr.3 cars at Brands Hatch.

I wanted to give the Scooby's a second look. I almost liked the Gr.3 WRX at NGP 2 weeks ago, and I really liked it at Catalunya last week. The Gr.4 car was actually one of the very first cars I purchased 2ish years ago when I got this game, but I couldn't handle the massive understeer on the throttle in corners. Looking back, my not getting along with the GR4 WRX was a direct result of me sucking REAL bad at the time. Welp, I took it around Interlagos on RM's (all cars I tested today were on RM's) and the car fit like a glove. I was extremely consistent in it, not to mention the car stuck like glue. Now I know the WRX's aren't very good with tire wear, but at any rate, it felt much better than the other 2 cars I tested. Another thing I noticed was that I didn't necessarily have to be on the race line to get the car to flow. All good stuff when actually in a race. I tested the Gr.3 Scooby at Brand's and it was great. Maybe not as good as a Porsche or other not super twitchy MR car..... but good enough to take a handling circuit like Brand's very aggressively.

The next car I tested was the Gr.4 Porsche at Interlagos. I have a lot of time in the 911 RSR. Whenever I enter a race and don't know which car to pick, the RSR is my warm blanket. After a lot of laps, I got the car figured out enough where I could be consistent, but it didn't have the pace of the WRX. Actually, I was like 1/2-3/4 second off my Scooby pace. I didn't even bother testing the RSR at Brands cause I already knew I liked it.

Next up was the Mustang.... a car I've been hearing a lot about around here for the last little bit. I have no experience with this car whatsoever so I took my time getting used to the Gr4 at Interlagos. Truth be told, I got to where I liked this car. Truth be told, I got to where I could get pretty consistent with it. Truth be told, my fastest lap at Interlagos the whole day was with the Mustang (by a whopping 1/2 second!). Buuuuutt....the only problem I had with this car was I needed to be extremely consistent lap after lap in order to get this car to work. If I deviated from the race line the car was a tad skatey and my lap times suffered. And compared to WRX where I could put it anywhere and it would stick....I surmised that the WRX is the better "race car". Buuuuuut..... I knew I could get used to the intricacies. I knew I could figure out how to "baby-doll" it into corners. Not to mention I loved the power spread of that Mustang!! So it all hinged on how I liked the gr.3 car at Brands. To be honest, it was just about a non-starter from the first lap. I use cockpit view exclusively and the Gr.3 mustang was difficult to see out of. Not as bad as a Pug RCZ, but bad nonetheless.

I'm willing to try a few more cars tomorrow if anyone has suggestions. I don't have a lot of experience with a Gr.4 BMW, and I have no experience with the Lexus in any trim..... or a lot of the Euro brands for that matter.


Someone educate me!!
Click to expand...
I can recommend the Lexus. It's like a better Mustang. Very balanced, straightforward car that will do better in actual race conditions than a lot of other FRs.

I did a bunch of testing on Suzuka back in January and for pace these were my results (racing hards):

Corvette: 58.999
Porsche: 59.125
Jaguar+Aston: 59.264/268
Lexus: 59.402
Mustang: 59.7xx

I then did a fuel/tyre test on the same track, 4 laps with high multipliers. Pace was nearly identical across the board, and tyre wear was nearly identical too except the F-type had noticeably better front tyre wear than the others.

But for fuel this is what I finished each run with:

Corvette: 41%
F-type: 42%
Lexus: 47%
Porsche: 48%

Higher is obviously better (more fuel remaining). They were all shifted at optimal RPMs, no fuel saving whatsoever. So in race conditions the Lexus holds a considerable advantage on fuel over many other FRs. It also barely loses pace when short shifting, so you can save even more.

All around a solid pick.
 
Yard_Sale
kinda bored with this weeks combos, and my new alt hasn't yet built up enough capital to purchase a Gr.1 car sooooooooo...... I spent the better part of 2 hours testing cars for the new Manu season. My euro Alt is with Renault (mistake because the Gr.3 car blows.....but the slophy was good at Laguna Seca so I went with that). My main is with Ferrari....which was also a mistake because that Gr.3 car is very difficult to drive. This new Merica' alt will be my chance to get it right I suppose. I tested Gr.4 cars at Interlagos and Gr.3 cars at Brands Hatch.

I wanted to give the Scooby's a second look. I almost liked the Gr.3 WRX at NGP 2 weeks ago, and I really liked it at Catalunya last week. The Gr.4 car was actually one of the very first cars I purchased 2ish years ago when I got this game, but I couldn't handle the massive understeer on the throttle in corners. Looking back, my not getting along with the GR4 WRX was a direct result of me sucking REAL bad at the time. Welp, I took it around Interlagos on RM's (all cars I tested today were on RM's) and the car fit like a glove. I was extremely consistent in it, not to mention the car stuck like glue. Now I know the WRX's aren't very good with tire wear, but at any rate, it felt much better than the other 2 cars I tested. Another thing I noticed was that I didn't necessarily have to be on the race line to get the car to flow. All good stuff when actually in a race. I tested the Gr.3 Scooby at Brand's and it was great. Maybe not as good as a Porsche or other not super twitchy MR car..... but good enough to take a handling circuit like Brand's very aggressively.

The next car I tested was the Gr.4 Porsche at Interlagos. I have a lot of time in the 911 RSR. Whenever I enter a race and don't know which car to pick, the RSR is my warm blanket. After a lot of laps, I got the car figured out enough where I could be consistent, but it didn't have the pace of the WRX. Actually, I was like 1/2-3/4 second off my Scooby pace. I didn't even bother testing the RSR at Brands cause I already knew I liked it.

Next up was the Mustang.... a car I've been hearing a lot about around here for the last little bit. I have no experience with this car whatsoever so I took my time getting used to the Gr4 at Interlagos. Truth be told, I got to where I liked this car. Truth be told, I got to where I could get pretty consistent with it. Truth be told, my fastest lap at Interlagos the whole day was with the Mustang (by a whopping 1/2 second!). Buuuuutt....the only problem I had with this car was I needed to be extremely consistent lap after lap in order to get this car to work. If I deviated from the race line the car was a tad skatey and my lap times suffered. And compared to WRX where I could put it anywhere and it would stick....I surmised that the WRX is the better "race car". Buuuuuut..... I knew I could get used to the intricacies. I knew I could figure out how to "baby-doll" it into corners. Not to mention I loved the power spread of that Mustang!! So it all hinged on how I liked the gr.3 car at Brands. To be honest, it was just about a non-starter from the first lap. I use cockpit view exclusively and the Gr.3 mustang was difficult to see out of. Not as bad as a Pug RCZ, but bad nonetheless.

I'm willing to try a few more cars tomorrow if anyone has suggestions. I don't have a lot of experience with a Gr.4 BMW, and I have no experience with the Lexus in any trim..... or a lot of the Euro brands for that matter.


Someone educate me!!
Click to expand...
The Mustang is very nice until you add fuel use. It's the thirstiest car in the clas I think.
But If you like it you learn to live with that.

In cockpit view, I assume you changed your position? It works better for me when I raise my viewpoint and also moves it a little further back for better mirror vision.
 
Yard_Sale
kinda bored with this weeks combos, and my new alt hasn't yet built up enough capital to purchase a Gr.1 car sooooooooo...... I spent the better part of 2 hours testing cars for the new Manu season. My euro Alt is with Renault (mistake because the Gr.3 car blows.....but the slophy was good at Laguna Seca so I went with that). My main is with Ferrari....which was also a mistake because that Gr.3 car is very difficult to drive. This new Merica' alt will be my chance to get it right I suppose. I tested Gr.4 cars at Interlagos and Gr.3 cars at Brands Hatch.

I wanted to give the Scooby's a second look. I almost liked the Gr.3 WRX at NGP 2 weeks ago, and I really liked it at Catalunya last week. The Gr.4 car was actually one of the very first cars I purchased 2ish years ago when I got this game, but I couldn't handle the massive understeer on the throttle in corners. Looking back, my not getting along with the GR4 WRX was a direct result of me sucking REAL bad at the time. Welp, I took it around Interlagos on RM's (all cars I tested today were on RM's) and the car fit like a glove. I was extremely consistent in it, not to mention the car stuck like glue. Now I know the WRX's aren't very good with tire wear, but at any rate, it felt much better than the other 2 cars I tested. Another thing I noticed was that I didn't necessarily have to be on the race line to get the car to flow. All good stuff when actually in a race. I tested the Gr.3 Scooby at Brand's and it was great. Maybe not as good as a Porsche or other not super twitchy MR car..... but good enough to take a handling circuit like Brand's very aggressively.

The next car I tested was the Gr.4 Porsche at Interlagos. I have a lot of time in the 911 RSR. Whenever I enter a race and don't know which car to pick, the RSR is my warm blanket. After a lot of laps, I got the car figured out enough where I could be consistent, but it didn't have the pace of the WRX. Actually, I was like 1/2-3/4 second off my Scooby pace. I didn't even bother testing the RSR at Brands cause I already knew I liked it.

Next up was the Mustang.... a car I've been hearing a lot about around here for the last little bit. I have no experience with this car whatsoever so I took my time getting used to the Gr4 at Interlagos. Truth be told, I got to where I liked this car. Truth be told, I got to where I could get pretty consistent with it. Truth be told, my fastest lap at Interlagos the whole day was with the Mustang (by a whopping 1/2 second!). Buuuuutt....the only problem I had with this car was I needed to be extremely consistent lap after lap in order to get this car to work. If I deviated from the race line the car was a tad skatey and my lap times suffered. And compared to WRX where I could put it anywhere and it would stick....I surmised that the WRX is the better "race car". Buuuuuut..... I knew I could get used to the intricacies. I knew I could figure out how to "baby-doll" it into corners. Not to mention I loved the power spread of that Mustang!! So it all hinged on how I liked the gr.3 car at Brands. To be honest, it was just about a non-starter from the first lap. I use cockpit view exclusively and the Gr.3 mustang was difficult to see out of. Not as bad as a Pug RCZ, but bad nonetheless.

I'm willing to try a few more cars tomorrow if anyone has suggestions. I don't have a lot of experience with a Gr.4 BMW, and I have no experience with the Lexus in any trim..... or a lot of the Euro brands for that matter.


Someone educate me!!
Click to expand...
Give the Jags and Aston Martins a go if you like FR cars. Both very powerful and well-balanced weapons. As mentioned by @kungtotte_ above, the Jag is really good on tyre wear and as @RacingGrandpa said the Mustang isn't great on fuel, so that's something to factor in to the mix.
 
Last edited:
Yard_Sale
kinda bored with this weeks combos, and my new alt hasn't yet built up enough capital to purchase a Gr.1 car sooooooooo...... I spent the better part of 2 hours testing cars for the new Manu season. My euro Alt is with Renault (mistake because the Gr.3 car blows.....but the slophy was good at Laguna Seca so I went with that). My main is with Ferrari....which was also a mistake because that Gr.3 car is very difficult to drive. This new Merica' alt will be my chance to get it right I suppose. I tested Gr.4 cars at Interlagos and Gr.3 cars at Brands Hatch.

I wanted to give the Scooby's a second look. I almost liked the Gr.3 WRX at NGP 2 weeks ago, and I really liked it at Catalunya last week. The Gr.4 car was actually one of the very first cars I purchased 2ish years ago when I got this game, but I couldn't handle the massive understeer on the throttle in corners. Looking back, my not getting along with the GR4 WRX was a direct result of me sucking REAL bad at the time. Welp, I took it around Interlagos on RM's (all cars I tested today were on RM's) and the car fit like a glove. I was extremely consistent in it, not to mention the car stuck like glue. Now I know the WRX's aren't very good with tire wear, but at any rate, it felt much better than the other 2 cars I tested. Another thing I noticed was that I didn't necessarily have to be on the race line to get the car to flow. All good stuff when actually in a race. I tested the Gr.3 Scooby at Brand's and it was great. Maybe not as good as a Porsche or other not super twitchy MR car..... but good enough to take a handling circuit like Brand's very aggressively.

The next car I tested was the Gr.4 Porsche at Interlagos. I have a lot of time in the 911 RSR. Whenever I enter a race and don't know which car to pick, the RSR is my warm blanket. After a lot of laps, I got the car figured out enough where I could be consistent, but it didn't have the pace of the WRX. Actually, I was like 1/2-3/4 second off my Scooby pace. I didn't even bother testing the RSR at Brands cause I already knew I liked it.

Next up was the Mustang.... a car I've been hearing a lot about around here for the last little bit. I have no experience with this car whatsoever so I took my time getting used to the Gr4 at Interlagos. Truth be told, I got to where I liked this car. Truth be told, I got to where I could get pretty consistent with it. Truth be told, my fastest lap at Interlagos the whole day was with the Mustang (by a whopping 1/2 second!). Buuuuutt....the only problem I had with this car was I needed to be extremely consistent lap after lap in order to get this car to work. If I deviated from the race line the car was a tad skatey and my lap times suffered. And compared to WRX where I could put it anywhere and it would stick....I surmised that the WRX is the better "race car". Buuuuuut..... I knew I could get used to the intricacies. I knew I could figure out how to "baby-doll" it into corners. Not to mention I loved the power spread of that Mustang!! So it all hinged on how I liked the gr.3 car at Brands. To be honest, it was just about a non-starter from the first lap. I use cockpit view exclusively and the Gr.3 mustang was difficult to see out of. Not as bad as a Pug RCZ, but bad nonetheless.

I'm willing to try a few more cars tomorrow if anyone has suggestions. I don't have a lot of experience with a Gr.4 BMW, and I have no experience with the Lexus in any trim..... or a lot of the Euro brands for that matter.


Someone educate me!!
Click to expand...
Also if you did like the Gr4 Mustang there are 2 Gr3 Fords. Perhaps the GT will give you something you missed in the Stang.
 
Seth_Logan
The cards were shuffled, hands were dealt and people gambled on their manufacturer to get the best possible results. Of course there was de dealer, who changed his mind mid game to change some of the cards values. Some benefited, some did not. But what did it all lead to? Which car is the meta? Is there even a meta? Are there stinkers, what brands are they and did things change from the previous round?

Before I dive into the data I must stress that this analysis is done by looking at the results per brand as they unfolded with these tracks and conditions. I firmly believe that the Jaguar is NOT a stinker, but… under these circumstances was, let’s just say; less than ideal.

That does bring up a question though: a lot of youtubers and high profile drivers picked up on the Aston Martin, thinking it would be “the best” car for them this season. They must have done so by looking at the tracks and conditions and judging from experience must have felt it would be the go to car. However that did not turn out to be the case (even if bumped somewhat at the beginning of the season). Are they bad predicters and in the end just mere mortals like all of us? Who knows, maybe @Tidgney would care to explain his reasons (and I believe he did mention somewhere he was sorry he picked the Aston) for picking the Aston and share his experience with it?

Now for the results: like the previous time what I did was make an alignment chart and tier cars looking at the average number of points per driver from group A (larger sample) and the number of drivers.

I then gave points to reflect a car's actual in game performance (points per player) against the number of players choosing that manufacturer. For which I'm assuming they took it thinking it to be the best choice results wise
  • The car gets 3 points for both being high on the points and high on the number of people driving.
  • 2 points are given to the underdog cars: cars that don't get a lot of love but are on average very well in the performance department.
  • The manufacturer even scores a point if the average score of points per player is low but there are also few players that take the car (people are aware of the weaknesses and avoid driving it at certain tracks).
  • No points are given to fan favourites (meaning a lot of drivers) that just don't perform as should be expected from the number of players choosing to go with the car.
An example may look like this:

View attachment 1063106

Overall result

From just looking at the data, overall, group 3 and 4 combined this season shows no real stinker combo’s. No car combo’s together are unable to get decent results somewhere. That is good news. At the other end of that spectrum, there are definitely OP brands based on their combo. The one that truly sticks out is the Porsche. It had an unbelievable score of 21 points, always scoring maximum at the group 3 level and this season also doing very well in Gr. 4 (not the case last season). The Citroen does very well too (I tested it and boy is it hard to drive @MCL1974 care to share how it went for you?) and the Mitsubishi is a regular monster on the road! It scored 2 points in every round!

View attachment 1063107

Group 3

The differences become apparent from zooming in on the group level. Just look at the power of the Aston and Jaguar along with the BMW and Porsche. They dominated the scoreboards. I would not be surprised if they would adjust the Porsche for season 2. It is mental! (I would also understand if they don’t do anything at all to a car that is just a fan favourite and is easy to drive for most people. Which I think is also something PD considers).

Maybe they could look into the five in orange, but even those brands have had their strong tracks in group 3! The only consistently weak cars (this season and last) are Renault R.S. 01 and Audi R8… they remain epic fails… which is a shame as I do believe neither ought to be (just look at the sheer number of wins/podia Audi R8’s have in real world competitions).

View attachment 1063109

Group 4

From looking at the data I would say group 4 has more problems (they seem to be more difficult to get right). Although there is no real OP car anymore like last seasons Jaguar and McLaren there are again some stinkers that need some attention. And no, that does not mean the Aston and Jaguar. Although they underperformed according to players expectations there actual scores per player were still pretty decent. But that is not what we are measuring here hence the lower score. Strangle enough the only car I would like to ask some attention for is the Mazda, scoring weak in both groups and lacking overall score.

View attachment 1063110

I myself am happy with the choice for Jaguar again. I did pick it based on the assumption that I would be doing all group four races and only one group three and had to change my plans after finding out qualifying on softs (and high) don’t go well with driving on hards (and slow) knowing the car handles like a boat on hards (at some tracks) come race time. Still, in it, I got a first, second and sixth place for my score. The Gr. 3 is a power car. At least I think it is. Secretly I had hoped that Nurburg ring GP would be in the second season. I did time trails on it with the Jag when it was a daily and once it started “clicking” it was a real pleasure to drive. The one race I did with it I got a P3 in the end. I hope both cars will continue to perform in the second season (we can’t change manu).

I’m looking forward to it!

Cheers,

Seth
Click to expand...
I'm sure you put a lot of work into this, but trying to rank manufacturers based on how many people use it & how much points are pulled each round will always be flawed. I've said this before in this thread but the driver has a higher effect on each manu performance than the actual car itself. Sure there are metas for each particular combo, but a top alien will be able to still rake in the points no matter what. I've seen LIGHTNING win top split races in anything from Viper, RS01, Huracan, Alfa and obviously Subaru won the championship last year. Then when he switches manu the next season, that car just plummets down the rankings. Does it suddenly get a BOP nerf? Nope, it's just that LIGHTNING can get that extra few tenths compared to other drivers, which evens out a mediocre car against the usual suspects.

Same with popularity. Some brands always pull in big numbers like Porsche/Jag/Mercedes, and that ensures there will always be good drivers representing it. On the other hand Mitsu/Citroen/Renault are always forgotten despite them not being as totally useless as most people think.

Looking at your combined tier list, and comparing to the manu rankings last season, there are huge discrepancies between the supposed OP cars and the actual rank:
Porsche 3rd
Mitsu 22nd
BMW 16th
Citroen 24th
www.gran-turismo.com

Sport Mode | Gran Turismo Sport - gran-turismo.com

www.gran-turismo.com www.gran-turismo.com

So yeah, I'm not sure how useful this analysis is.

In my view, having raced every FIA season from 2019 and driven for 14 (!) manufacturers, there are basically 2 kinds of manu: all rounders and specialized.

The all rounders, have decent speed and handling, relatively easy to use, and average fuel/tyre consumption. Basically anyone can jump in and get average results. It pulls in large number of players because of this, and the top drivers also choose it because it's a safe choice no matter what combos will be in the season. Examples: Porsche, Merc, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus + Toyota, Mazda (the last 2 because they're guaranteed entries). Slightly below this tier, there are what I call "second rate" all rounders. Still easy to drive but just lacks the pace of the above e.g. Dodge, Hyundai, Ford.

The specialized manus, they need a bit more work to get speed out of. They may not be OP on most tracks, but come to specific combos they will be meta. Usually they have trade off between speed/handling/tyre/fuel. Examples Subaru/Mitsu (slow straightline but good fuel/tyre), Honda/Audi/Lambo (ultra handling but difficult, meta in rain, bad tyre), Alfa (slow in everything, but OP tyre wear), Renault (ultra handling, bad tyre, Gr.4 extreme choice between handling or speed), Aston/Vette (fast but bad fuel), McLaren (meta for Tokyo/Sarthe).

The really difficult manu is Ferrari. Gr.3 is the hardest car to drive, and doesn't really have any stand out features. Gr.4 is pretty good but also not special in anything so you'll struggle to compensate for the Gr.3's results.

Manus with FF Gr.4, they tend to have large swings in representation depending on the BOP. As you know they are just very difficult to balance generally. When they are OP, you'll see a lot of people flock to them. When they're mediocre like now, we have only VW and Peugeot qualified. I remember a time when the bottom 4 in the rankings are basically Audi/Renault/Peugeot/VW every season.

Rather than crunching hard numbers, the only way to really tell which are the good manus are by testing it yourself in lots of different conditions. You'll get to know the subtle strength and weaknesses of each car, and how they all interact in a race condition (some cars are poor on their own, but with slipstream in a race they can be a lot more viable). It takes a lot of time and experience, and BOP changes can muddy the waters too. Each driver also have different driving styles and preferences, so what works for me might not work for others. In my most succesfull FIA season, I got 2 wins driving for McLaren (and it wasn't on Tokyo/Sarthe). Meanwhile I can't for my life drive the high powered FRs like Merc/Jag/Aston/Vette that so many people seem to love, because it just doesn't suit my driving style.
 
Last edited:
LeGeNd-1
I'm sure you put a lot of work into this, but trying to rank manufacturers based on how many people use it & how much points are pulled each round will always be flawed. I've said this before in this thread but the driver has a higher effect on each manu performance than the actual car itself. Sure there are metas for each particular combo, but a top alien will be able to still rake in the points no matter what. I've seen LIGHTNING win top split races in anything from Viper, RS01, Huracan, Alfa and obviously Subaru won the championship last year. Then when he switches manu the next season, that car just plummets down the rankings. Does it suddenly get a BOP nerf? Nope, it's just that LIGHTNING can get that extra few tenths compared to other drivers, which evens out a mediocre car against the usual suspects.

Same with popularity. Some brands always pull in big numbers like Porsche/Jag/Mercedes, and that ensures there will always be good drivers representing it. On the other hand Mitsu/Citroen/Renault are always forgotten despite them not being as totally useless as most people think.

Looking at your combined tier list, and comparing to the manu rankings last season, there are huge discrepancies between the supposed OP cars and the actual rank:
Porsche 3rd
Mitsu 22nd
BMW 16th
Citroen 24th
www.gran-turismo.com

Sport Mode | Gran Turismo Sport - gran-turismo.com

www.gran-turismo.com www.gran-turismo.com

So yeah, I'm not sure how useful this analysis is.

In my view, having raced every FIA season from 2019 and driven for 14 (!) manufacturers, there are basically 2 kinds of manu: all rounders and specialized.

The all rounders, have decent speed and handling, relatively easy to use, and average fuel/tyre consumption. Basically anyone can jump in and get average results. It pulls in large number of players because of this, and the top drivers also choose it because it's a safe choice no matter what combos will be in the season. Examples: Porsche, Merc, BMW, Jaguar, Lexus + Toyota, Mazda (the last 2 because they're guaranteed entries). Slightly below this tier, there are what I call "second rate" all rounders. Still easy to drive but just lacks the pace of the above e.g. Dodge, Hyundai, Ford.

The specialized manus, they need a bit more work to get speed out of. They may not be OP on most tracks, but come to specific combos they will be meta. Usually they have trade off between speed/handling/tyre/fuel. Examples Subaru/Mitsu (slow straightline but good fuel/tyre), Honda/Audi/Lambo (ultra handling but difficult, meta in rain, bad tyre), Alfa (slow in everything, but OP tyre wear), Renault (ultra handling, bad tyre, Gr.4 extreme choice between handling or speed), Aston/Vette (fast but bad fuel), McLaren (meta for Tokyo/Sarthe).

The really difficult manu is Ferrari. Gr.3 is the hardest car to drive, and doesn't really have any stand out features. Gr.4 is pretty good but also not special in anything so you'll struggle to compensate for the Gr.3's results.

Manus with FF Gr.4, they tend to have large swings in representation depending on the BOP. As you know they are just very difficult to balance generally. When they are OP, you'll see a lot of people flock to them. When they're mediocre like now, we have only VW and Peugeot qualified. I remember a time when the bottom 4 in the rankings are basically Audi/Renault/Peugeot/VW every season.

Rather than crunching hard numbers, the only way to really tell which are the good manus are by testing it yourself in lots of different conditions. You'll get to know the subtle strength and weaknesses of each car, and how they all interact in a race condition (some cars are poor on their own, but with slipstream in a race they can be a lot more viable). It takes a lot of time and experience, and BOP changes can muddy the waters too. Each driver also have different driving styles and preferences, so what works for me might not work for others. In my most succesfull FIA season, I got 2 wins driving for McLaren (and it wasn't on Tokyo/Sarthe). Meanwhile I can't for my life drive the high powered FRs like Merc/Jag/Aston/Vette that so many people seem to love, because it just doesn't suit my driving style.
Click to expand...
https://gt-engine.com and twitter: @GT_FAN7

lots of good analysis and data on the topic...
 
Thank you for appreciating the work. Any method is flawed (that includes tests as well). Apparently even if you have terabytes worth of data as I’m sure PD has they still can’t balance the BoP 100% (or can, but won’t) to prove otherwise. So there is that.

I think you are right to say the driver is key. Your conclusion that the results of the manu season don’t reflect my findings is spot on and in my view actually endorses the idea that driver is decisive. Whichever 12 manufacturers the top drivers per region pick will in most cases be the 10 cars who get representation in the WF (+ 2 sponsors). I would gladly put my money on a Brooks/Hizal/Miyazono to get Renault in the top 12 manufacturers if they so choose.

That’s why my analysis is not built on one driver nor all drivers together for that matter, it’s based on A level drivers (too few A+ drivers sometimes) and that is just a choice I made.

It’s not my goal to identify the one and true meta. It does not exist. What I am simply trying to do is the same as you do in your second paragraph: give some love to the brands that perform really well (by a group of people, not just one) and bring those to the attention of those that like this sort of analysis and perhaps lack time or patience to study/test cars. By grouping them (not on what I believe but how they performed). I kind of highlight the cars that only a few of us use, and also show that those that are default go-to brands may not always deliver as advertised. That is my goal.

I think if you examine the data per round, you would find results that come close to your findings in paragraphs 6 through 9. All I do is compound them. What you thoroughly describe as car characteristics is a qualitative translation of my data i.e. allrounders are more or less the Many Drivers / Many points and Many Drivers Few points right side of the alignment chart and those on the left side but towards the average. While the specialists brands can easily be identified (per round) as the Few Drivers and Many or Few points on the left side of the alignment chart. The extremes like Lambo, Ferrari, Honda, Audi and Renault are actually very easy to spot.

Crunching the hard numbers is not necessary, I’ve already done that for anyone who is interested. The caveat is I can’t predict what the next season will bring… because I base my findings on past results with tracks and combo’s the way they were, but… ALONGSIDE testing (I highly recommend that) it’s still useful to look at comparative track/conditions and do the analysis I did (how well the brands score on that track) if nothing else to help narrow down the list of cars you actually want to test (is what I’ve done). Why would you want to dismiss that as not useful? Could it be it has no use for you? Because you take the time to test etc.?

If you are okay with it I’d like to take paragraph 6 through 9 and add them to the analysis. Because even if nobody can use it, I still like doing this sort of thing.

Cheers,

Seth
 
Last edited:
RacingGrandpa
The Mustang is very nice until you add fuel use. It's the thirstiest car in the clas I think.
But If you like it you learn to live with that.

In cockpit view, I assume you changed your position? It works better for me when I raise my viewpoint and also moves it a little further back for better mirror vision.
Click to expand...
Yea I messed with it. The main problem was the A pillar creates a huge blind spot right where I need to be looking when I apex into left handers
 
Tested the rest of the group 3 and 4 cars yesterday. Well, almost. The only ones I didn’t test were the Pug’s, the Audi’s, the VWs, the Jaguar’s and Mercedes. I didn’t test those because I’ve either already used them and/or I hate FF GR.4 cars even when they were meta. If anything, I found my next 3 brands I’ll spread across all my accounts for next season. One gr4 car in particular that I’ve never used, but really impressed me was the Toyota 86. Vision out of the cockpit was amazing, the power was decent and the car was the best handling FR by far!!! It handled like an MR but without any of the drawbacks! Only thing was that I was a solid 1/2 of my pace on a interlagos against some of my other choices. Next season perhaps…

Another I will use at sometime in the future was the NSX’s. Those too are also cars I haven’t spent any time in, but I loved both of them. Honestly, i would have chosen it as my manu, but for the life of me I couldn’t get used to the right side steering!!! I know I could do it over time, and it’ll just take practice. That’ll be a good car for my alt in the future. The bmw was vanilla, but difficult to see out of. Lexus had good power but understeered more than the mustang. Gave the fords a second-over and I decided I liked it. Definitely a brand to use in the future.

Loved the gr.3 Genesis, was underwhelmed by the gr.4.

the atenza were ok. Solid like the bmw. Was surprised how much the gr4 atenza handled like a TT. And not in a good way

the Mitsubishi’s left me very impressed. However, in a lap attack vs the Scooby’s, they were slower by a little.

tried the Alpha Romero’s. Nope.

same with the Citroen

same with the Bugatti


In the end I ended up going with the Subaru’s. Not the fastest. Not the best tire wear. But very predictable and very racy. We’ll see how it goes
 
Seth_Logan
Speaking of liveries... why does THAT poll take so long to be made (liv. Comp.)? Is that normal? Loosing interest here 🙂
Click to expand...
No, not had it take that long before. Not sure what's going on there!

Back on topic, has anyone tried testing out tyre strats for Wednesday? I've done a few laps tonight with @OJBrit and I'm struggling to get more than 10 consistent laps with the meds and full tank. Lap 9 onwards was a struggle. But then I pitted at lap 14 and 6 laps on the softs also felt like a push!

11M/7S might be my best bet, but I'm not convinced I can get the softs to go the distance...
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

GTPNewsWire
Gran Turismo FIA Championship 2020 World Final Takes Place December 5/6
2
Replies
33
Views
5K
dimassa19
dimassa19
GTPNewsWire
Watch Live: Gran Turismo FIA Online Championships 2020 Americas Regional Final [Spoilers]
Replies
17
Views
3K
Adam41
Adam41
GTPNewsWire
Watch Live: Gran Turismo FIA Online Championships 2020 EMEA Regional Final [Spoilers]
2
Replies
38
Views
4K
LeGeNd-1
LeGeNd-1
GTPNewsWire
Gran Turismo Sport's FIA World Tour to Remain Online in 2021
Replies
0
Views
1K
GTPNewsWire
GTPNewsWire
GTPNewsWire
Watch Live: 2020 FIA Certified Gran Turismo Online Championship Manufacturer Series Final [spoiler]
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
LeGeNd-1
LeGeNd-1

Latest Posts

Back