2024 Formula 1 Constructors threadFormula 1
- Thread starter Jimlaad43
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It's a lot like what happened a decade ago with NASCAR trying to attract new fans, but at the same time trying not to alienate the older fans who liked things "they way they were" but were still putting lots of money in.
FOM sees the value of attracting a wider American audience, and the potential Ford vs GM rivalry would still certainly draw in a lot of that interest among the mainstream media and more casual motorsports fans (and yes they do still exist), but at the same time they don't want to lose their core fanbase of older Europeans who look down their noses at American motorsports and would probably be horrified if a new American team, not dependent on any of the existing outfits like Haas is, came in and started being consistently successful.
ROAD_DOGG33J
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Alfa Romeo is exiting F1 after this race.
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It's unfortunate, but when Sergio Marchionne passed on and FCA became Stellantis the writing was on the wall. F1 participation is expensive and a company as large and unwieldy as them is going to look at dropping that as the first way to save money, especially since they've all but retreated out of just about every other motorsports series over the last few years.
MagpieRacer
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So they aren’t partnering with Haas as previously rumoured?
MagpieRacer
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AshenGraey
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Not a cool move FOM! They should at least come out and say why they rejected Andretti. Especially if everything was properly lined up for them to join and they hit every check marks.
Veinz
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A PR team really looked at this and thought it sounded logical.
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Using Google translate, sorry for any errors there may be.
The application envisages a partnership with General Motors that does not initially include a supply of power units, with the ambition of a full partnership with General Motors as a power unit supplier in due course, but this will not happen for a few years. Having a power unit supplier like General Motors on the application from the beginning would have increased its credibility, although a novice builder partnering with a new power unit supplier would also have a significant challenge to overcome. Most attempts to establish a new builder in recent decades have been unsuccessful.
2025 will be the last year of the current regulatory cycle and 2026 will be the first year of the next cycle, for which a completely different car than the previous cycle will be required. The applicant proposes, as a new builder, to design and build a car under the 2025 regulation, and then, just the following year, to design and build a completely different car under the 2026 regulation. Furthermore, the applicant proposes to try this with a dependence of a mandatory supply from a rival power unit manufacturer who will inevitably be reluctant to extend its collaboration with the applicant beyond the minimum required while the applicant pursues its ambition to collaborate with General Motors as a longer-term power unit supplier, which a mandatory power unit supplier would see as a risk to its intellectual property.
We do not believe there is a basis for a new candidate to be admitted in 2025, since this would imply that a rookie participant would build two completely different cars in its first two years of existence. The fact that the applicant proposes to do so gives us reason to question his understanding of the scope of the challenge involved. Although a participant in 2026 would not face this specific problem, it is no less true that Formula 1, as the pinnacle of world motorsport, represents a unique technical challenge for constructors of a nature that the applicant has not faced in any another formula or discipline in which it has previously competed, and proposes to do so with a dependence on a mandatory supply of power units in the first years of its participation. On this basis, we do not believe that the applicant is a competitive participant.
Based on the application as it stands, we do not believe that the applicant has demonstrated that it would add value to the Championship. We conclude that the plaintiff's application to participate in the Championship should not be successful.
We would consider a team's application to enter the 2028 Championship with a General Motors power unit differently, either as a General Motors works team or as a General Motors customer team that designs all permitted components in-house. In this case, there would be additional factors to consider regarding the value that the applicant would bring to the Championship, in particular with respect to the entry of a new and prestigious OEM into the sport as a power unit supplier.
The application envisages a partnership with General Motors that does not initially include a supply of power units, with the ambition of a full partnership with General Motors as a power unit supplier in due course, but this will not happen for a few years. Having a power unit supplier like General Motors on the application from the beginning would have increased its credibility, although a novice builder partnering with a new power unit supplier would also have a significant challenge to overcome. Most attempts to establish a new builder in recent decades have been unsuccessful.
2025 will be the last year of the current regulatory cycle and 2026 will be the first year of the next cycle, for which a completely different car than the previous cycle will be required. The applicant proposes, as a new builder, to design and build a car under the 2025 regulation, and then, just the following year, to design and build a completely different car under the 2026 regulation. Furthermore, the applicant proposes to try this with a dependence of a mandatory supply from a rival power unit manufacturer who will inevitably be reluctant to extend its collaboration with the applicant beyond the minimum required while the applicant pursues its ambition to collaborate with General Motors as a longer-term power unit supplier, which a mandatory power unit supplier would see as a risk to its intellectual property.
We do not believe there is a basis for a new candidate to be admitted in 2025, since this would imply that a rookie participant would build two completely different cars in its first two years of existence. The fact that the applicant proposes to do so gives us reason to question his understanding of the scope of the challenge involved. Although a participant in 2026 would not face this specific problem, it is no less true that Formula 1, as the pinnacle of world motorsport, represents a unique technical challenge for constructors of a nature that the applicant has not faced in any another formula or discipline in which it has previously competed, and proposes to do so with a dependence on a mandatory supply of power units in the first years of its participation. On this basis, we do not believe that the applicant is a competitive participant.
Based on the application as it stands, we do not believe that the applicant has demonstrated that it would add value to the Championship. We conclude that the plaintiff's application to participate in the Championship should not be successful.
We would consider a team's application to enter the 2028 Championship with a General Motors power unit differently, either as a General Motors works team or as a General Motors customer team that designs all permitted components in-house. In this case, there would be additional factors to consider regarding the value that the applicant would bring to the Championship, in particular with respect to the entry of a new and prestigious OEM into the sport as a power unit supplier.
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God forbid they do anything that the fans may want to see.
With the possible, but far from insurmountable exception ofreason lame excuse (3) the rest are purely commercial reasons. They have no baring of the quality of the sport potentially provided by an 11th team.
Not only are they making it really difficult, bordering impossible, for any new team to join, they're also making the process as unappealing as they can. GM won't want to spend the next 4 years developing an engine not knowing if even that will allow them or their partner team of choice an entry.
With the possible, but far from insurmountable exception of
Not only are they making it really difficult, bordering impossible, for any new team to join, they're also making the process as unappealing as they can. GM won't want to spend the next 4 years developing an engine not knowing if even that will allow them or their partner team of choice an entry.
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F1 (and any other series that does it) should not be allowed to have World Championship status if they artificially limit entries. It honestly doesn't feel much different than US sports using the title for their champions.
Granted I don't see Andretti or any of the other teams that put forth applications actually contending any time soon had they gotten in but that's not the point.
Granted I don't see Andretti or any of the other teams that put forth applications actually contending any time soon had they gotten in but that's not the point.
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It’s just greed. They don’t want to share anything with an 11th team as F1 is exploding in popularity. Corporate sponsorships are flowing in and team values are skyrocketing. Willams was sold in 2021 for around $200 million, which is a bargain now.
Andretti has the best team entry F1 has seen in decades, but he’ll have to buy Haas for nearly a billion dollars now to get in.
Andretti has the best team entry F1 has seen in decades, but he’ll have to buy Haas for nearly a billion dollars now to get in.
AshenGraey
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Andretti, just like Haas, want to buy everything they can from Renault/Alpine, even if the chassis and aero are supposed to be made by Andretti, it doesn't sound really credible with the current factory and it's not really promising to develop and produce a formula car without an exclusive F1 factory, F1 engineers or other greater experience. Building a 12-year-old Indycar-spec chassis on which further development is allowed almost exclusively on the shock absorber (and Andretti has failed to do this in recent years, which is why there are neither Indycar titles nor Indy 500 victories) is not the right expertise to build an F1 car from scratch. But you also won't attract a substantial number of F1 people with the US location, they don't even want to go to Audi in Switzerland/Germany from the UK. What's more, Andretti hasn't done anything for ages in any of the categories in which they are currently competing, mind you, nowhere with a car they built themselves and everywhere in spec series and still 0 title ambitions anywhere.
The bottom line is that it's good for F1 that this Haas construct is failing so spectacularly and falling further and further behind. The difference between F1 and virtually all other major motorsport categories worldwide is the development, production and further development of its own F1 car every year. Here in Haas F1 you have a construct that buys all the legal parts from Ferrari, has the car built by Dallara and the aerodynamic parts are developed by Ferrari people in Haas team clothing at Ferrari in Maranello and some of them are probably even manufactured there. Andretti would be not much different in many respects. Haas doesn't have its own F1 factory, Haas doesn't build its own car, money only flows to third parties for contract work in a manufacturer racing series. This is exactly what F1 did not want with the introduction and purchase of parts some years ago. They didn't want investors who just buy everything together and don't have or develop any infrastructure. And yet at the time of Haas' entry, they had no choice but to agree to it. Fortunately, it is not running and has not attracted any other non-manufacturers.
Today it's different, "people" are interested in taking part in F1 again. Even if the bottom line is that there is currently no candidate who really wants to start from scratch with the appropriate capital and become the real 10th team and not just a sham manufacturer like Haas. Audi is again so half-baked because they only swapped Sauber/Alfa, which is certainly not what F1 had hoped for. Unfortunately, this is also a warning to other manufacturers that Audi and even more so Porsche can't do it themselves without buying in infrastructure and expertise. This should set alarm bells ringing in F1, because you won't find a manufacturer who wants to start with billions at 0 infrastructure so quickly.
The likelihood that Andretti could end up driving around just as under-budgeted as Haas is the reason why F1 is not happy to award the grid position and you didn't hear anything at all until now from Domenicali. The teams are all about the money, which they don't want to share with Andretti, that's purely selfish and capitalistic. But also F1 doesn't need another back-bench team from the USA either, which harbours the danger of dampening the US boom even further or destroying it with the Haas vs Andretti battle for the penultimate place among the constructors. In the end, it's all about money for F1, which could dry up with the Andretti risk, but above all the danger of alienating the American spectators at the track and at home on the screen.
Realistically, they would have preferred to have Audi and Porsche as independent manufacturers with new factories, infrastructure that could have been sold back to Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, etc. a few years later, even if they had left, and would have had a much better future than a Haas warehouse in England and possibly one day an F1 department at Andretti in the States or a second Andretti warehouse in England. F1 simply doesn't need that and GM's appeal is simply too small or too local. GM is rather insignificant outside North and parts of Central and South America.
The bottom line is that it's good for F1 that this Haas construct is failing so spectacularly and falling further and further behind. The difference between F1 and virtually all other major motorsport categories worldwide is the development, production and further development of its own F1 car every year. Here in Haas F1 you have a construct that buys all the legal parts from Ferrari, has the car built by Dallara and the aerodynamic parts are developed by Ferrari people in Haas team clothing at Ferrari in Maranello and some of them are probably even manufactured there. Andretti would be not much different in many respects. Haas doesn't have its own F1 factory, Haas doesn't build its own car, money only flows to third parties for contract work in a manufacturer racing series. This is exactly what F1 did not want with the introduction and purchase of parts some years ago. They didn't want investors who just buy everything together and don't have or develop any infrastructure. And yet at the time of Haas' entry, they had no choice but to agree to it. Fortunately, it is not running and has not attracted any other non-manufacturers.
Today it's different, "people" are interested in taking part in F1 again. Even if the bottom line is that there is currently no candidate who really wants to start from scratch with the appropriate capital and become the real 10th team and not just a sham manufacturer like Haas. Audi is again so half-baked because they only swapped Sauber/Alfa, which is certainly not what F1 had hoped for. Unfortunately, this is also a warning to other manufacturers that Audi and even more so Porsche can't do it themselves without buying in infrastructure and expertise. This should set alarm bells ringing in F1, because you won't find a manufacturer who wants to start with billions at 0 infrastructure so quickly.
The likelihood that Andretti could end up driving around just as under-budgeted as Haas is the reason why F1 is not happy to award the grid position and you didn't hear anything at all until now from Domenicali. The teams are all about the money, which they don't want to share with Andretti, that's purely selfish and capitalistic. But also F1 doesn't need another back-bench team from the USA either, which harbours the danger of dampening the US boom even further or destroying it with the Haas vs Andretti battle for the penultimate place among the constructors. In the end, it's all about money for F1, which could dry up with the Andretti risk, but above all the danger of alienating the American spectators at the track and at home on the screen.
Realistically, they would have preferred to have Audi and Porsche as independent manufacturers with new factories, infrastructure that could have been sold back to Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, etc. a few years later, even if they had left, and would have had a much better future than a Haas warehouse in England and possibly one day an F1 department at Andretti in the States or a second Andretti warehouse in England. F1 simply doesn't need that and GM's appeal is simply too small or too local. GM is rather insignificant outside North and parts of Central and South America.
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McLaren
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Haas is an American team and they manufacture stuff.
Never going to let them live it down. Sorry.
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