2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[Keef]

I appreciate the sentiment. And I applaud you for telling me what you're thinking. The desire to cling to hope that something will work out, or something will save us, or somehow everything is going to be ok is very normal and human and calming. And it's what keeps you in place and screwed when something like this happens.

I know you don't think it can happen to you, nobody does. It's happening.

I just don't want you to be like some friends of mine who are constantly enveloped in stress and panic and allow it to spoil their lives. Using this as motivation to work toward goals is one thing, allowing it to make you miserable is another. Your words have been reading to me like the latter.

Why four years? What happens in four years?

What ideas are going to be brewed after January? The time to act is now, before he's inaugurated. That's as clear to me as it can possibly be.

Parties... what... no... there are no candidates or parties anymore. I mean sure, we can pretend that the American political system is intact or something if that helps people make peace.

People can't act rationally until they stop freaking out. When dumb things happen, you gotta quickly come to terms with it and start planning. Unfortunately I'm not a political expert so I am mostly along for the ride, and it could be a wild one - remember Trump's idea to privatize the FAA from years ago? Congress blocked it, the industry wanted it blocked, pilots and controllers were terrified of it, and all that from an industry that is like 80% conservative. Most pilots voted for Trump and when he said "privatize the FAA" they all crapped their pants. It could effect me bigly, but I have to rely on experts to figure out what to do about it.

No, we're screwed for sure. It's time to deal with it.



It would cause a ton of civil unrest. But it might force the country to finally say something is not ok. I'd prefer biden take the fall rather than kamala on that one though. He might too.

When I said "deal with it" I meant emotionally, not practically. I think most practical things that could be done to "deal with it", including any of the pending litigation, will cause unrest. If any landmark legal action is taken in the next two months, legit or not, it will be a problem and will further break trust in the system. Besides whatever proceedings are already ongoing, I don't think anything else is warranted without causing other unforeseen problems, and historically acts of desperation like that tend to spawn even more reactionary measures than they were trying to solve in the first place. Again, the 1930s offer so many examples of the situation we're in.

I'm not expert, I don't know what to do. The Democratic party is useless because their voters won't vote unless the leader is a once-in-a-generation savant. The Republican party is about to become a sweeping entity. Single-party government has virtually existed in the US before, in the 1890s, when the Republican party absolutely dominated, but things evolved. I think the most likely scenario currently is that no matter how powerful the Republicans get under Trump, the party is likely to fracture.



We need to wait to see what our smartest and most motivated people come up with. I'm not one of them.

 

[mellofello9]

... and then issued a drone strike to eliminate a domestic terrorist as an official Presidential act.

I'm picking-up on a theme, here...🤣

Ideas? Solutions? This seems just as ridiculous as anything else that's going on right now, so why not? Let's just Clockwork Orange the country (the TV watching bit only, please) with endless hours of Schoolhouse Rock

I underestimate the sheer number of citizens that are oblivious to and detached from the politics that shape their lives. I also underestimate their impact.

 

[Danoff]

I just don't want you to be like some friends of mine who are constantly enveloped in stress and panic and allow it to spoil their lives. Using this as motivation to work toward goals is one thing, allowing it to make you miserable is another. Your words have been reading to me like the latter.

Well thanks for your concern.

When I worked for NASA I had to deliver some tough presentations. It was my job on occasion to tell upper management what their options were, and sometimes I had to tell them the options were pretty bad. I delivered one such talk, and afterward a manager came up to me and said "I want you to deliver all the bad news in my life to me". He was surprised that I was able to bluntly and flatly deliver bad news without a sugar coat or a pretend rainbow.

I'm a planner and I try very hard to make sure I reckon with reality. When I see a situation unfold, I look at it in terms of what has happened, in terms of trend, in terms of what is possible, and I try to acknowledge what is likely, based on whatever information I have at hand.

People can't act rationally until they stop freaking out. When dumb things happen, you gotta quickly come to terms with it and start planning.

That's what I'm saying to you. It's not just freaking out that's counterproductive, it's also denial. Many times I've seen a situation unfold where people are too slow to realize the severity of their situation. I've seen in when someone is drowning, I've seen it when a fire alarm goes off, I've seen it during a pandemic. It actually seems like a bigger, more pervasive problem than "freaking out". Granted, becoming paralyzed with fear is also a problem to prevent planning.

I came to terms with this 2 years ago and started planning by talking to a foreign attorney about my family's options. At the time, there were people in my life who thought this was unnecessary or silly. They don't think that anymore.

Unfortunately I'm not a political expert so I am mostly along for the ride, and it could be a wild one - remember Trump's idea to privatize the FAA from years ago? Congress blocked it, the industry wanted it blocked, pilots and controllers were terrified of it, and all that from an industry that is like 80% conservative. Most pilots voted for Trump and when he said "privatize the FAA" they all crapped their pants. It could effect me bigly, but I have to rely on experts to figure out what to do about it.

There was a safety net during the previous Trump admin. Most of that safety net has been removed, somewhat systematically, over the last four years. Right now is a good time to start laying the groundwork should your concerns come to pass.

When I said "deal with it" I meant emotionally, not practically. I think most practical things that could be done to "deal with it", including any of the pending litigation, will cause unrest. If any landmark legal action is taken in the next two months, legit or not, it will be a problem and will further break trust in the system.

There are several things I don't like about this sentiment. One is that nothing can be done practically. Maybe not at a national level, but at a personal level I think there are some very real steps you could take. If you're not a gun owner, you should be. If you have legal status in another country or could get it, you should ensure that it's possible to secure. It's time to start planning on a personal level.

In terms of the national level, there is no trust in the system to break. We need to think practically about the implications of handing a clown a gun.

The Republican party is about to become a sweeping entity. Single-party government has virtually existed in the US before, in the 1890s, when the Republican party absolutely dominated, but things evolved. I think the most likely scenario currently is that no matter how powerful the Republicans get under Trump, the party is likely to fracture.

We need to wait to see what our smartest and most motivated people come up with. I'm not one of them.

To be quite frank, our situation is nothing like anything that has happened in American politics to date. Party politics is over. We elected one man, not a party, to do whatever he wants, not a platform.

 

[deththrasher]

Lol.

Depends how rich you are really

 

[Danoff]

Depends how rich you are really

I'm a rich white guy. Still looks like crap to me.

 

[Pupik]

Lol.

America is the best nation in the world when it remembers to take its medication.

 

[dylansan]

Any strategy that relies on the American people becoming more informed and acting rationally, is no strategy at all.

 

[Fezzik]

America is the best nation in the world when it remembers to take its medication.

Most of the country can’t afford the medication.

 

[Danoff]

Any strategy that relies on the American people becoming more informed and acting rationally, is no strategy at all.

Remind me who you voted for again.

 

[deththrasher]

I'm a rich white guy. Still looks like crap to me.

It's easy to say that and just shows how comfortable you are to have that perspective. The many millions of people who come to the US, desperately putting themselves through life and death situations to make it, and many don't make it. The US isn't perfect, like any national but man there's a reason so many people run away from their countries to the US.

 

[TexRex]

The US isn't perfect, like any national but man there's a reason so many people run away from their countries to the US.

And because of the way it is--nativist parasites abound--the overwhelming majority of those seeking the opportunities it provides are denied them.

 

[Terronium-12]

It's easy to say that and just shows how comfortable you are to have that perspective. The many millions of people who come to the US, desperately putting themselves through life and death situations to make it, and many don't make it. The US isn't perfect, like any national but man there's a reason so many people run away from their countries to the US.

And those reasons are about to be flushed down the toilet, first class.

I'm not rich, nor am I white. Luckily, I haven't received one of those riveting cotton-picking texts yet. Though I don't know what the prerequisites for that are, nor do I care to.

My point is, for the next four years this won't be a refuge for anyone except the blindingly bigoted, sexist, misogynistic, and xenophobic.

 

[Danoff]

It's easy to say that and just shows how comfortable you are to have that perspective. The many millions of people who come to the US, desperately putting themselves through life and death situations to make it, and many don't make it. The US isn't perfect, like any national but man there's a reason so many people run away from their countries to the US.

You misunderstood that sentiment entirely.

Your lecture to me, as if I didn't already know, is not responsive to the sentiment I was expressing. I am well aware that there are worse countries than America (still, despite recent developments). I'm aware because I have been looking at them intently for the past few years.

America is worse for the people you're talking about than me, not better. I'm in just about the most favored group in the US. It's worse for just about everyone than it is for me. If I think it's bad for me, I think it's still worse for them.

Prior to tuesday, on balance, there were no countries I'd rather live in than America. After tuesday, on balance, that is no longer true. The US has been looking crappier and crappier over the last decade, mostly because of uninformed people who think "everything is going to be fine" when they vote for it not to be. But tuesday it took a major dive in my estimation.

If you'd think anyone would be happy it would be me. I'm a rich white guy, and the Trump administration is not likely to pick on me. In fact, the Trump administration policies are likely to favor me, if they're going to favor anyone. And yet, there are certain things that I care about a lot more than enriching myself. Like freedom of speech, like for my daughters to have rights over their bodies and not to be treated as second class citizens in hospitals and courtrooms. Like representative government. Like trust in law enforcement. Like for my kids to attend a school where they're not practicing by hiding in a closet from expected shooters. Like the ability to live in a country where I don't have to observe persecution by my government, even if I am not myself persecuted.

There are countries that manage all of that better than the US.

 

[McLaren]

View attachment 1403717



Will Trump do anything to change this legacy that Biden-Harris set?

1) That conflict was happening long before Oct. 7th.
2) “You have to finish the job, Israel.”

I’ll let you guess which candidate said that.

 

[Joey D]

There are countries that manage all of that better than the US.

Geninue question: which ones? It seems like more and more of the world is shifting further and further to the right. I used to think countries like New Zealand were pretty liberal and progressive, but even they've taken a hard right. Europe in general is shifting right too and is no longer safe if NATO is dissolved since they Russkies will absolutely start picking off countries. Honestly, I can't think of many American like places where it would be safe to escape things shifting to the right. I suspect even Canada will follow the US's direction and elect their own version of Trump, just softer and enjoys hockey more.

 

[Tornado]

America is worse for the people you're talking about than me, not better. I'm in just about the most favored group in the US.

Based on the logic present in the current political landscape, I guess that means you're a gay black transgender man competing in women's sports?

 

[Yard_Sale]

I'm pretty sure this is simply you projecting.

According to every poll, exit interview, etc, the economy and immigration drove Trump's votes.

Its interesting however to know what drove your vote.

I disagree. The main things people were worried about were the economy and inflation, and almost every poll shows that. It's hard to give a damn about abortion rights or social issues when you can't afford to buy groceries. The sad part is, Trump isn't going to fix the economy, his plan is going to make it exponentially worse. Tariffs are bad for the economy, like really bad. Sure, they might be good in the long term if companies eventually shift manufacturing back to the US and there's an employment boom, but the people who can't afford groceries aren't going to care about 20 years from now. They care about what's happening today, and when they see that Trump has fumbled the economy, they will shift the way they vote. Much of this comes down to a lack of education and understanding how the economy works. If all you ever did was get your views of the economy from the Fox Business channel, you'd think what Trump is doing is great. If you've actually spent more than a couple of hours reading about how the economy works or taking an Econ 101 course, you'd know Trump's plan is a disaster. Unfortunately, like the Constitution, most Americans don't understand how the economy works nor do they really care.

I was saying in regards to what the theme that the vast majority of the responses I’ve read in this thread, are missing.

Of course I know what drove people to vote for Trump. I’ve been outlying in this thread, and the “America” thread (before my crayons were taken from me), for a year or more. I even wrote how much Trump would win by, after Biden’s feeble State of the Union address. I even said that it doesn’t matter who is at the top of the ticket, Democrats aren’t going to win, and they’d be smart to direct their attention to the house and senate.

There’s a lot of things I talked about - ranging from the economy, immigration, the Hispanics and blacks moving away from the democrats and how Mexicans on both sides of the border weren’t happy about the Biden administration’s immigration failures. How the democrats were going to win this immigration war over the long run, even though they’ll lose this battle, and the political brilliance of Texas, Arizona, and Republican leaders aiding in “spreading the wealth” of the influx of illegal immigrants amongst the country. I offered perspective from the unique lens my life and profession affords. And because I was saying a lot of this stuff a long time before the mainstream media started reporting on it - for the mass consumption of the masses, I was predictably laughed at in this thread. No biggie. I have very thick skin, I don’t live and die or get worked up by politics, nor do I feel the need or want to try and change anyone’s mind - wether it’s in real life, or getting cervical bone spurs and carpal tunnel incessantly typing about it in here.


Elitist, or far left progressive ideals like open borders, pronouns, and the elimination of fossil fuels aren’t everyday working class American issues. And I guess that the silver lining to the cloud that currently hangs over this subforum, and I suppose society as a whole - is that there will always be exponentially more reasonable people in society than unreasonable people. It’s true of a society absent of politics. It’s true of a society with politics. We have more in common with each other, then we will ever have with the ruling class. Random Olds invented the first modern assembly line in 1901. Now, over a century later, politicians with the help of media, and some very smart entrepreneurs, are trying to make us all products of an assembly line.



But ya know, whatever.



Anyways, later dudes 👍🏼

 

[dylansan]

Remind me who you voted for again.

Is this the reason Trump won?

If you don't think the Harris campaign strategy was flawed, and that it cost her votes, then your opinions mean nothing to me. We fundamentally disagree on basic facts.

Even the media and the Democratic party aren't blaming third party voters or candidates, because they know it's impossible to argue that when every third party voter combined couldn't have saved her.

All the Wrong Moves: An Early Autopsy of Kamala Harris' Campaign | Opinion

Unlike in 2016, Democrats don't look like they will have the popular vote/Electoral College split to fall back on as a rationalization.

www.newsweek.com

https://www.npr.org/2024/11/07/nx-s1-5181045/how-harris-lost-trump-2024

I mean, what even was the point of Harris replacing Biden if she couldn't convince voters that she was different from Biden (except for e.g. her desire to put a Republican in her cabinet)? How many times are Democrats going to try and fail to court Republicans before they try something else?


Your disapproval is noted. Maybe it's time to focus on things that actually made any difference at all.

 

[Greycap]

It seems like more and more of the world is shifting further and further to the right.

It depends on the starting point though. Here in Finland half of the parliament is so far to the left that although their favourite word nowadays seems to be "far right" when talking about their adversaries, while in reality we don't have even one properly right wing party here. Barely to the right of centrism, it's just that when you're looking from left enough everything looks far right. Our actual left wing MEPs are sitting in the same group with hardcore Putinists because they never got over the fact that the big red friend of love and peace didn't manage to "liberate" us from the evil west.

On the other hand, the US Republicans tend to consider the Democrats little short of communists. Total bull**** I say, they're still a centrist or a mildly right wing party too from the point of view of nearly the entire Europe for example, just not as far as the other side.

 

[MatskiMonk]

We have more in common with each other, then we will ever have with the ruling class.

Then why did America vote Trump/Musk? Why does America hate immigrants?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Edit: Arizona only has 76% reporting right now, three days later. What the hell?

We're slow. 🤣

 

[McLaren]

Now, over a century later, politicians with the help of media, and some very smart entrepreneurs, are trying to make us all products of an assembly line.

And you voted for the candidate who openly supported that, lol.

 

[Scaff]

Elitist, or far left progressive ideals like open borders, pronouns, and the elimination of fossil fuels aren’t everyday working class American issues.

Pronouns are an elitist, far left ideal?

Tell me you don't understand the word without saying so. I can assure you that you use pronouns every damn day.

What your sulking about is the concept of using people's preferred pronoun, well apart from the over 90% of the population you feel comfortable with. So your using his win to champion your own bias, and excuse it as normal.

The main draw for Trump voters was the economy and immigration, neither of which he will fix.

Hell, you don't even have a far left in the Democrats, and they certainly don't have open borders.

 

[Danoff]

Any strategy that relies on the American people becoming more informed and acting rationally, is no strategy at all.

Is this the reason Trump won?

Yes. People not voting rationally is the reason Trump won.

If you don't think the Harris campaign strategy was flawed, and that it cost her votes, then your opinions mean nothing to me. We fundamentally disagree on basic facts.

That's fine. You were just lecturing people about not being informed or acting rationally and when you had the chance you didn't vote for success.

Even the media and the Democratic party aren't blaming third party voters or candidates, because they know it's impossible to argue that when every third party voter combined couldn't have saved her.

I don't care whether the media or the democratic party blames you. You'll have to live with this one forever. When you had the chance, you chose not to help. Not America, not Ukraine, not Palestinians. You chose to help Trump.

I mean, what even was the point of Harris replacing Biden if she couldn't convince voters that she was different from Biden (except for e.g. her desire to put a Republican in her cabinet)? How many times are Democrats going to try and fail to court Republicans before they try something else?


Your disapproval is noted. Maybe it's time to focus on things that actually made any difference at all.

Rationalize all you want. And I will bring it up any time you lecture people how to vote rationally.

 

[Danoff]

Geninue question: which ones? It seems like more and more of the world is shifting further and further to the right. I used to think countries like New Zealand were pretty liberal and progressive, but even they've taken a hard right. Europe in general is shifting right too and is no longer safe if NATO is dissolved since they Russkies will absolutely start picking off countries. Honestly, I can't think of many American like places where it would be safe to escape things shifting to the right. I suspect even Canada will follow the US's direction and elect their own version of Trump, just softer and enjoys hockey more.

For personal reasons, it'll be important to be able to easily access the US, at least for some time. So it's BC Canada.

 

[Tornado]

If the implication is supposed to be that the people who were fooled into voting third party or abstaining out of solidarity with Palestine (and yes, fooled is absolutely the correct term because all of the people who did were played just as thoroughly by the same damn person as the people who were convinced tariffs were going to fix everything) are in the clear just because the media hasn't yet stopped pointing fingers at Harris and (increasingly) Biden after three days, I've got some bad news for you for once they pick up on what's already happening to people who mentioned doing so before the election.



Unless you think miraculously you won't be a punching bag for it for years to come like people who openly promoted Nader or Johnson still are.

 

[Kriptical]

Im not so sure this is about social issues.

It occurred to me earlier as i was taking the porcelain chariot for a spin that most of genX over the past decade. At least here, on the mid atlantic section of the east coast, has been upside down on their homes, driving around in way too much car, in order to keep up appearances. They technically have the money, but much of it is locked in their 401k’s. You see, my generation let the pension system die, and bet on the market, and now they are beholden to it. At the end of the day, Trump pumps the market and all these people care about is that number. Market corrections and capital gains taxes scare the 💩 out of them. Their retirement depends on it.



Also!

And not for nothing…

Food prices are about small and even medium companies being drummed out of business by whales. Covid sped that up bringing us to today where we almost have defacto monopolies…and the sort of pricing which accompanies it. Im going to let you guys in on a little secret…these companies aren’t run by liberal/progressive types. Its about to get a lot worse. The reporting of food poisonings, and recalls, which have been crazy lately..are going to seem like a drop in the bucket.

 

[TexRex]

Quick Reminder: Don't Compare the Final 2020 Popular Vote Totals with Non-Final 2024 Vote Totals

Right now, Harris is at about 67M (N.Y. Times data), but about 45% of California votes aren't yet included in that tally, plus 30% of Oregon votes, 35% of

reason.com

Right now, Harris is at about 67M (N.Y. Times data), but about 45% of California votes aren't yet included in that tally, plus 30% of Oregon votes, 35% of Washington votes, 35% of Arizona votes, and some more in other states. Given that so far the 54% of California votes that have been counted are split 5.6M for Harris to 3.9M for Trump, that suggests the remaining 46% will add roughly 4.8M to Harris's tally and roughly 3.3M to Trump's.

I went through the N.Y. Times map and entered the data from the states which weren't listed as >95% reporting, and projecting from current totals, it seems like Harris is likely to get probably about 9M more, for a total of about 76M. Trump's popular vote will likewise grow considerably beyond his current 72M, to about 79M. That expected split (76M to 79M) might be compared to the 2020 final results, which favored Biden by 81M to 74M; it thus appears that we will ultimately see a likely swing of about 5M votes, give or take a million or so, I'd guess.

I mention this because I've been seeing people suggesting that the decline from Biden's 81M to Harris's 67M is highly suspicious. But, again, that doesn't make much sense, because that's comparing final 2020 totals to far-from-final 2024 totals.

Of course, I'd love to see more reliable estimates than my quite rough calculations. UPDATE: The University of Florida Election Lab estimates that 158.5M ballots were counted, which suggests that there are 19.5M ballots left to count; that's higher than my estimate of 16M left over, but still consistent with the broad point that the current totals are far from final.

Obviously there are going to be differences in turnout over four years, with differing incentives to participate and of course individuals aging into eligibility and out of participation, and so it's idiotic to expect that there won't be a change, but it's looking like it's not going to be that far off of four years ago.

Pronouns are an elitist, far left ideal?

Absolutely.

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ya

So obviously Yard Sale here is pinko scum.

 

[Tornado]

Maybe it's the royal we.

 

[Famine]

the blacks