2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[Tornado]

Sorry, who was I fooled by? I was listening to Palestinians, among others, not Trump (is that the implication?)

I mean it's been explained to you, what? Half a dozen times now? More? These are just the ones I remember seeing since I started looking in this thread after I voted Tuesday morning:

I think it comes down to a pretty simple question - is a Donald Trump presidency worse or better for Palestinians than a Kamala Harris presidency. There are no other practical considerations on this issue.

So do you think Donald Trump is better for Palestinians than Kamala Harris? Because that would be...remarkable.

If Donald Trump is elected tonight, I think Gaza will literally no long exist in 4 years. Netanyahu will be given tacit permission to run over the enclave, and he will try to do it as fast as possible. All the residents of Gaza will likely confined to a very small area, which will resemble an actual prison even more than it already does. The rest will be settled by Israelis, gleefully. The west bank will continue to be eroded and I'd guess that most Muslims will be pushed out of Jerusalem too. You think Joe Biden is bad for Palestinians, wait till you see Bibi & Trump, round 2. It's just a shocking rejection of reality to protest vote on this issue. The crazy thing is that you think you have some kind of moral authority on this issue, when in reality you are the one making the decision that could imperil Muslims not only in the middle east but in the USA too.

Perhaps you could cover, in a few sentences or less, for those of us who don't seem to get how it's controversial that a woman with no current power to arm Israel says that Israel needs to be mindful of how it "defends itself" in not killing Palestinian civilians in anticipation of her gaining that power - or why a Harris White House would be so much worse for Palestinians than a Trump White House which very definitely already did send weaponry to Israel and which a simple search appears to show Israeli newspapers absolutely stanning for (and Iran appears to be bricking it about).

But republicans in congress have even more to do with it (and you've already stopped thinking about that haven't you?). She has not made statements of unequivocal support of Israel to the best of my knowledge. You quoted her making a statement (that was not unequivocal support), and left out the context that included the stuff that it's wrong for Israel to be doing.

Your logic seems to be - Biden & Harris have facilitated Palestinian suffering, and that's bad, so I will vote in such a way that their suffering will be worse and their future prospects more dim than ever. Punishing Joe Biden for the actions of Israel to the benefit of Donald Trump (regardless of your state) and detriment of Kamala Harris, who has only tenuous agency in the whole thing, is no favor to the Palestinian people, it's just personally vindictive and emotional.

If Harris (who isn't actually the incumbent President by the way) is having Israeli military aid applied against her, then the same must equally apply to the actual former President who actually did do it during his time in office.

You actually believe Trump will stop weapon shipments?

To his friend Bibi?

Keep in mind that their position is way more friendly to your cause than the Republicans. So if you're making a list of people not to forgive, republicans should be listed first.

I would even say that it would stand to reason that Trump bragging openly about working with Netanyahu for months to sabotage ceasefire attempts to make Biden look weak (regardless of whether it is true) should go a long way towards telling you how much a protest vote against Democrats matters regarding what Israel is doing in Gaza; but here we are.

She's actually chosen her words regarding Israel extremely carefully considering her campaign rival and alleged US ally Netanyahu have been actively conspiring against US interests to deliberately put her in a position that makes her look as weak as the man she's replacing on the subject to a much larger (and, let's be frank, much more powerful one) voting constituency of US politics. She's been given a no win scenario over an issue by her opponent and I'm not sure how she could have navigated it better than she has, even if it is the topic that she's been thumped the most over (which has been Trump's intention from the start)

It's not an implication. It never was an implication. It has in fact been obvious to everyone in this thread but you that liberals souring on Harris because she wasn't properly handling the minefield that she had no control over regarding what Israel was doing while working with Trump was something that played right into Trump's hands. It so obviously played into Trump's hands that he couldn't help but brag about being behind it in interviews, giving stated goals of working to block efforts of the Biden administration negotiating a ceasefire because he wanted to make Biden and Harris look bad to their voting bloc. It was widely reported that him and Netanyahu had been meeting together all summer, to the point that every time a ceasefire discussion was scuttled people started wondering aloud if the two had just met again. If you hear the things he was saying out loud in the final week of the election and take them at face value, he has been significantly directly responsible for making Palestinian people suffer because it benefited him if Harris and Biden were forced to deal with Israel's actions when he could just ignore the fallout that Harris was getting hammered for; even though giving weapons to Israel over the past year and being completely spineless with conditions attached to them wasn't her choice. You have been flailing around trying to spin voting against Harris as a trolley problem or a line in the sand or a moral imperative or a grievous self-own political failing of the Harris campaign or anything you could try to make stick when the person she was running against is one of the biggest reasons that the problem is as bad as it was and has only gotten worse in the past 6 months.



And now Trump won, and Gaza could very well be a parking lot by the end of January. And, yes, it's directly related to when people like you did exactly what Trump wanted people like you to do; because a pointless protest vote even in a deeply partisan area of the country will absolutely embolden a candidate and his followers/cronies when it helps him win the popular vote in the process. Congratulations.

Oh god, I've made a huge mistake! I should have based my decisions on what would make people like me!

No. You should have probably been less gullible considering how many times the logical issues with your position were explained even before Tuesday; but you absolutely shouldn't have spent the past work week desperately trying to find some angle to prove that you didn't get punked by Donald Trump when he said out loud that he was actively conspiring with the Israeli government to get people to drop support for Harris for the exact sentiment you keep parroting. But it's okay. That just means you're just like the 73+ million people who voted for him that he also fooled who also think they're the smartest people in the room.

 

[dylansan]

Didn't say it was.

Then the correct answer was no.

Nonsense. Voting for Harris helps her win. Even if she carried your state without you and you expected her too, it still helps her win. Not voting for her helps Trump win.

It quite literally did not.

No. You still don't get it. It's over. There is no change.

When faced with evil, you played games.

Still playing games. I'm not trying to send messages to the party. It was just so critically important that Trump be stopped.

It's not a game, and that's exactly why the party needed to figure their **** out and pick the best candidate and listen to voters and at least pretend that they wanted their votes instead of snubbing people they needed to vote for them. Her campaign played games.

Haley

The reasons for her failure are that people wanted the authoritarian douche to win.

Some people did. Some others, who probably didn't, also didn't think Harris would be better. They were wrong, but

I have never witnessed a bigger s*** show or dumpster fire than was the Trump campaign. It was horrific, from one end to the other - easily mistaken for someone who actively does not want to win. He won because people love an asshole as long as he's their asshole.

He's your asshole now.

Biden won because Trump was god damned awful. Trump won because people have VERY short memories and think assholes make good leaders.

Do any of the reasons for Trump's win involve choices made by the the Harris campaign? If not, then was this election literally impossible to win?

You think knowing how to drive is the winning recipe? I'd be surprised if Trump can even drive literally, let alone metaphorically. In other words, knowing how to drive (metaphorically) has nothing to do with winning. Nothing at all. The most incompetent president ever just got elected.

Harris didn't lose voters because people thought she was incompetent.

Harris lost voters because her campaign strategy was incompetent, causing her to lose voters she couldn't afford to lose.

...and stop Trump, who hates them.

it's like you didn't see any campaign ads somehow.

Yes.... the progressive agenda is so popular that the guy with the gold toilet who sells 100k watches won the election. Is this post some kind of joke? You can't be serious with this nonsense.

Yes, they are popular. More popular than Harris.

Ballot measures deliver big wins for progressive policy priorities

From education to abortion rights, minimum wage to family leave, progressive policy measures fared quite well in 2024, even amid Republican victories.

www.msnbc.com

Maybe you should have listened to Trump instead. You might have realized what was going on then.

I heard him plenty. He's nasty, destructive, a threat to everyone. I didn't need any convincing of that.

@Tornado I'm also aware that he's worse than Harris on Israel. The reason that didn't affect my decision is because I couldn't stop Trump from winning even if I had voted for Harris.

Who gives a RATS ASS who spoke at the DNC??? Jesus tapdancing, the wheels just came off of society and you're worried about whether someone gave a speech? I'm going to stop right here before I say something I regret. This is reprehensible.

I was not personally shocked by who spoke at the DNC, and that had no bearing on my vote. But obviously a lot of people were upset, and it's not hard to predict that people would be upset. She threw away those ****ing votes for what? THAT's what pisses me off. I watched this campaign do a terrible job clinging to voters she absolutely needed in order to win. Being a better candidate is not a strategy. She was a better candidate. She knew that wasn't good enough. Everyone knows that's not good enough. It should be good enough, but it isn't. Democrats need to accept this reality.

Maybe you're right that there won't be a next time, and that would be terrible. In four years we may get a chance to start clawing our way back. It ONLY happens if we learn from the mistakes. In four years we cannot afford to waste the opportunity, the same way we couldn't afford to waste it now. And I know your blood is boiling at that statement, so:

Look, I took a risk. I'm aware it was a risk. The magnitude of the consequences of that risk were extremely high. AND. The chances of my vote actualizing that risk were extremely low. My calculation was correct. It wasn't guaranteed to be correct, but it was, and it wasn't even close. My state voted overwhelmingly for Harris. The risk had a purpose, one you obviously find less important than this election—you'd be right—and yet, I still decided it was more likely that Democrats get more chances to defeat the evil in the future than it was that my vote would impact the result of this election. Math you probably disagree with.

If I haven't made it clear yet, if I lived in a state that was even within striking distance of being contested, it's almost guaranteed I would have voted for Harris. The combination of the importance of the election and actually having the agency to have a tangible effect on the result would have almost certainly overcome any moral issues I have with Harris. Even if Massachusetts had been a close race, in that case a Trump victory would have been 100% guaranteed.




I would really like to know what people think of initiatives like Swap your Vote (swing state voters promise to vote for Harris in exchange for safe blue state voters promising to vote for their preferred third party candidate) or Vote Pact (A Trump and Harris voter each agree to vote for third party candidates they like better to avoid cancelling each other out). I had come across the latter or something like it before the election, but it wasn't actively matching people up at that point, just suggesting people talk to friends or family and make an agreement that way.

 

[Keef]

I would really like to know what people think of initiatives like Swap your Vote (swing state voters promise to vote for Harris in exchange for safe blue state voters promising to vote for their preferred third party candidate) or Vote Pact (A Trump and Harris voter each agree to vote for third party candidates they like better to avoid cancelling each other out). I had come across the latter or something like it before the election, but it wasn't actively matching people up at that point, just suggesting people talk to friends or family and make an agreement that way.

It's legal but a convoluted bandaid on our two-party system. Ranked choice voting would alleviate pretty much every reason for those initiatives.

 

[Joey D]

So, in an attempt to find some silver linings, I think I've figured one out. Woody Johnson, the owner of the New York Jets, will likely be Trump's ambassador to the UK since that's what his post was before. Because of this, he won't be able to run the team, so his brother, Christopher Johnson (whose middle name is Wold ), will run it. The last time Christopher ran the Jets, he ran them into the ground and hired terrible people, including this weirdo:

(that's Adam Gase)

Anyway, if Christopher takes over, he'll likely implode the Jets further. Since he'll be in charge of hiring the next coach and drafting the next round of players, he'll likely make the team even worse. The last time he was in charge, he skipped over Patrick Mahomes and Christian McCaffrey during the draft for a safety. So, I fully expect him to overlook generational talent again.

Anyway, that's not the silver lining. The silver lining is that because Trump won, Aaron Rodgers's career will be even more tarnished because he will be stuck with a really, really terrible football team and it will completely derail the Jets even more to becoming the LOL Jets.

So, while yes, America will burn with a Trump presidency, so will Aaron Rodgers, and that brings me at least the tiniest sliver of joy.

 

[Com Fox]

It's legal but a convoluted bandaid on our two-party system. Ranked choice voting would alleviate pretty much every reason for those initiatives.

The only hurdle is two party systems hate it and both would never want to implement anything of the sort.

We have it in Australia (called preferential voting here) but both major parties despise it and have tried numerous attempts to reduce to influence of voting third party or independant as we don't have any laws to protect these other parties from not being bullied by the big ones (in fact quite the opposite, we keep passing laws that make it harder).

No way you'll get Republicans or Democrats to agree on such a thing in the first place and even if you did get there, they'll agree to rig it so bad against anyone else.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Hmm a stopped clock and all that with regards to @Yard_Sale

Trump's win does have impacts for the country and others for liberalism (or at least progressive liberalism), whether people here want to admit it or not:

Francis Fukuyama: Trump’s win marks ‘decisive rejection’ of liberalism

Donald Trump’s victory this week demonstrates that classical liberalism is on the decline, according to international relations scholar Francis Fukuyama. The election “represents a decisive rejection by American voters of liberalism and the particular way that the understanding of a ‘free...

unherd.com

After Amsterdam I'm not sure how we can prevent the increasing political, social and overt balkanisation of western societies.

 

[Famine]

Meidas Touch has assembled every pledge and promise that "47" made while campaigning - verbally (and credit to them for sticking through that lot to find sense), on video, and in writing. There are 93 in total:

BUDGET & TAXES:
1. No taxes on tips.
2. Interest on car loans will be tax deductible.
3. No taxes on Social Security payments.
4. No taxes on any overtime income.
5. Across the board income tax cut for every taxpayer.
6. Make previous Trump tax cuts permanent.
7. Cut the corporate tax rate.
8. No cuts in benefits or changes in Social Security retirement age.
9. The federal budget will be cut by 33%.
10. Tax credits for home caregivers who are family members.
11. Repeal the Impound Control Act of 1974, which will prohibits a president from withholding funding approved by Congress in their budget that he disagrees with.
12. Interest rates on credit cards will be capped at 10%.

IMMIGRATION:
13. All migrants, including those with pending asylum claims, will be taken into custody and deported immediately by invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.
14. Birthright citizenship will be ended by executive order. All persons who were born in the US to migrant parents will have their citizenship revoked and will be deported immediately.
15. Border will be closed with no migrants entering the US by moving thousands of US troops from overseas to be stationed on the southern border.
16. Border wall across southern US and Mexico will be completed.
17. All releases into the US of asylum seekers will be ended and Remain in Mexico policy reinstated.
18. Increase criminal penalties for illegal entry.
19. Reinstitute travel ban.

GENERAL DOMESTIC POLICY:
20. Construct 10 new 'Freedom Cities' in the US which will be completely free from all government regulations of any kind.
21. No EV mandates or subsidies.
22. Create a Central Bank Digital Currency.
23. Homelessness will be criminalized and all homeless in the US will be arrested and given the choice of incarceration or admission into a new federal tent city for treatment.
24. Federal tent cities for arrested homeless - "Homeless Rehabilitation Centers' - will be fully staffed with doctors, psychiatrists and social workers.
25. Send astronauts to the moon.
26. Send astronauts to Mars.
27. Open federal lands to new home construction.
28. Seize control of the District of Columbia and have all city agencies run and controlled by the federal government.
29. Build new national monuments.
30. Create a federal task force to combat anti-Christian bias.
31. Provide housing for all 33,000 homeless veterans.
32. IVF will be fully covered with no out-of-pocket costs to parents.
33. Create job training and skills programs for all recovering drug addicts.
34. Provide federal funding for faith-based drug treatment centers.
35. Expand the Family & Medical Leave Act to require all employers to give time off for drug rehabilitation programs.
36. Create a White House Task Force called 'Salute 250,' which will organize one year of festivities across the US from Memorial Day 2025 to July 4, 2026.
37. Create the 'Great American State Fair' which will be held in Iowa each year with exhibits from all 50 states. (Promised right before the Iowa Caucus).
38. Create 'The Patriot Games' which will be an annual national competition for high school athletes in every sport similar to the Olympics.
39. Everyone over 18 shall be given the option to opt out of all content moderation on social media platforms.
40. Content moderation on social media platforms must not use AI.
41. Former employees of FBI, CIA, NSA, DNI, DHS and DOD shall not be permitted to take any job with a social media company for 7 years after leaving government service.
42. Have the US opt out of the Paris Climate Accords.
43. Repeal Biden's Administrations motor vehicle emissions standards.
44. The US government and agencies will only recognize people for the gender on their original birth certificate for all purposes.
45. All healthcare providers who perform gender reassignment surgeries are people under 18 will be permanently terminated from Medicare and Medicaid.

EDUCATION:
46. Abolish the Department of Education.
47. Parents of all public schools can vote to remove a principal at any time.
48. School principals will be elected by parents each year.
49. Seize endowments of universities who either have DEI programs, consider race in admissions or hiring, or teach CRT. Endowments will be seized by levying a fine in lawsuits brought by DOJ that is equal to the amount in the endowment
50. A portion of money seized from university endowments will be used to compensate people who have been discriminated against in admissions and hiring due to DEI or preferences. (Intended for White people and Asians)
51. Deport foreign students who are pro-Hamas or make anti-American statements on campus.
52. End tenure for teachers and professors.
53. Increase merit pay for teachers.
54. Universal, national school choice for all school systems in the country.
55. Bible study will be instituted in public schools.
56. School prayer will be instituted in public schools.
57. All student who assaults a teacher or another student will be permanently expelled from that school.
58. All schools receive additional funding to "harden" them against school shooters and invaders.
59. College tuition at all colleges and universities will be reduced.
60. Create 'The American Academy' which will be a University run by the federal government. Tuition will be free. It will be paid for by money seized from other Universities' endowments. Full curriculum will be online available to all Americans for free. Students will receive a fully credentialed bachelor's degree.
61. $10,000 per child tax credit for home schooling.
62. All high school and college accreditors shall be fired immediately with accreditation services replaced by a group appointed by the president.
63. Revoke federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs dedicated to combatting disinformation and misinformation online.
64. Teacher certification will be changed and governed by a new federal agency that will only grant certifications to teachers who "embrace patriotic values."

FOREIGN POLICY & NATIONAL DEFENSE:
65. Require the EU to reimburse the US for all aid provided to Ukraine from the time of Russia's invasion to present.
66. End Ukraine war within 24 hours of taking office.
67. End the conflict between Israel and Gaza within 24 hours.
68. End violence inside Lebanon.
69. Create an Iron Dome Missile Defense Shield that will protect the entire US.
70. Increase defense spending to highest levels in history.
71. China will prevent the export of all fentanyl precursors.

TRADE:
72. Across the board 10% tariff on all foreign imports.
73. Tariffs of 20-60% imposed on all goods imported from China.
74. Revoke China's Most Favored Nation Status for trade.
75. Stop importation of all EVs from China.
76. All companies with plants in China or importing parts manufactured in China will be banned from conducting any business with the US government. (Proposed when Musk was supporting Desantis).
77. Tariff placed on all imports of Ibuprofen, Hydrocortisone, Acetaminophen, and Penicillin until 100% of each drug sold in the US is manufactured in the US.
78. The Trump Reciprocal Trade Act will impose tariffs on all imports equal to tariffs imposed by a foreign country on US products.
79. Chinese companies will be forced to sell all US holdings in energy, tech, telecommunications, farmland, natural resources, and medical supplies.
80. Return all auto manufacturing jobs from US auto companies with plants in Mexico to the US by imposting huge tariffs on Mexico.

ENERGY POLICY:
81. Authorize new drilling for oil to increase production above current levels.
82. Lift ban on exports of natural gas to other countries.
83. Electricity and home energy bills will be reduced by 50%.
84. New nuclear power plants will be authorized and constructed.
85. Over 200 new power plants using coal and other fossil fuels will be constructed.
86. All electric grids will be modernized.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:
87. Pardon defendants convicted and arrested for crimes related to J6 and stolen classified documents.
88. Have the US Navy implement a naval blockade to prevent all fentanyl precursors from entering the US by sea.
89. Federal immunity for state and local police officers to prohibit civil rights and excessive force lawsuits being brought against them.
90. Death penalty for human trafficking offenses.
91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.
92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).
93. DOJ will investigate and prosecute local District Attorneys believed to have persecuted because of their religious believes, such as anti-abortion activists outside clinics.

As you can see, there's a wide range of truly fantasist, totally unworkable, proper stupid, dumb, knee-jerk, off-the-cuff, contradictory, vaguely okay, populist, tyrannical, and unconstitutional in there.

Bets on how many he keeps?

 

[MatskiMonk]

You really did have to be a massive **** to vote for Trump.

 

[Joey D]

Bets on how many he keeps?

I see him keeping the ones that directly benefit him in some way and using all the others to extort money from his faithful by saying, "The Democrats won't let me do X, so buy these totally not-made-in-China shirts for $49.99 to help us win!" Then, he proceeds to do nothing except collect all that money while rinsing and repeatedly squeezing money out of people.

I also see a lot of those things being rejected by Congress, even Trump loyalists, because their lobbies tell them to reject it. I can't see anyone bought and paid for by any part of the energy industry going along with any energy production promises. Why would any power company want to reduce electricity bills by 50%? That's going to cut into their profit margins pretty substantially. The pharmaceutical lobbies will likely get involved, too, and any Trump loyalist who goes against those lobbies is going to have a rude awakening come midterms when their bottomless checkbook disappears.

Looking at a list of the top spending lobbies, the pharmaceutical industry, the insurance lobby, and tech companies spend a massive amount of money.

I think the inability to pay for any of that will limit much of it too. Many people don't care right now, but the moment their taxes go up they're going to care. I mean, I don't expect Trump to understand basic economics, but you can't spend more money while simultaneously reducing your income stream.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Ok, that is insane. I knew about maybe half of this crap, and I actually was kind of keeping up with this election. Looking at the full list makes it much, much scarier than I thought.

Considering that some people had no idea Biden dropped out and some don’t know what authoritarian is, I’m not surprised that not only fascists but just dumb people voted for trump or sat out this election.

 

[TexRex]

Lotta that sounds rather socialist. National socialist, especially.

 

[FuriousDemon]

This is a good one to read.

I spent hours trying to persuade US voters to choose Harris not Trump. I know why she lost | Kamala Harris | The Guardian

As a phone bank volunteer, I hoped to counter the Republican attacks and half-truths, but people really believed them, says journalist and podcaster Oliver Hall

amp.theguardian.com

Basically, as we know, people are dumb, conservative propaganda machine is effective, people are misogynistic, and they don’t give a flying **** about Gaza, on average. Oh yeah, going “more progressive “ ain’t gonna do **** sadly.

 

[Kriptical]

This is a good one to read.

I spent hours trying to persuade US voters to choose Harris not Trump. I know why she lost | Kamala Harris | The Guardian

As a phone bank volunteer, I hoped to counter the Republican attacks and half-truths, but people really believed them, says journalist and podcaster Oliver Hall

amp.theguardian.com

Basically, as we know, people are dumb, conservative propaganda machine is effective, people are misogynistic, and they don’t give a flying ** about Gaza, on average. Oh yeah, going “more progressive “ ain’t gonna do ** sadly.

Thats a shame because the DNC has insisted on running a centrist/republican-lite strategy since Bill Clinton. I look at Pelosi, Schmuer, and the dnc as just as responsible for the rise of Trump as anything else which has happened over the past couple decades. Harris was drummed out of the ‘20 primaries because she was a centrist..and only mildly less offensive than half the field back then. Also..she was a prosecutor in the ‘oughts. Prosecutors over the past twenty years have, anecdotally been more concerned with their conviction rate(scorecard), than actual justice.

At the end of the day these fools have been doing exactly the same thing again and again and then throw up their hands and cry how its not their fault. At a certain point you have to actually try to give people an actual choice.

or not and you find yourself here.

At the end of the day, if you can't beat a dumpster fire of a human like Trump its time to quit and let someone else try. More and more, i find myself blaming the centrists and the dnc.

Not that it really matters anymore. Their incompetence has likely ended this american experiment. Its sad. My family was here in the beginning…guess we’ll be here in the end as well.

 

[FuriousDemon]

The only hope we could have for a shift towards the left is that if someone like musk, who has money to burn, decided to buy media and social media companies just to do a reverse musk and promote socialism and communism. That will never happen of course, but I think that is the only way that it could ever work.

 

[HenrySwanson]

@opelgt1969, do you think Trump was the better choice for gas prices and the cost of living for you? Why do you think that?

 

[TexRex]

Thats a shame because the DNC has insisted on running a centrist/republican-lite strategy since Bill Clinton. I look at Pelosi, Schmuer, and the dnc as just as responsible for the rise of Trump as anything else which has happened over the past couple decades. Harris was drummed out of the ‘20 primaries because she was a centrist..and only mildly less offensive than half the field back then. Also..she was a prosecutor in the ‘oughts. Prosecutors over the past twenty years have, anecdotally been more concerned with their conviction rate(scorecard), than actual justice.

At the end of the day these fools have been doing exactly the same thing again and again and then throw up their hands and cry how its not their fault. At a certain point you have to actually try to give people an actual choice.

or not and you find yourself here.

At the end of the day, if you can't beat a dumpster fire of a human like Trump its time to quit and let someone else try. More and more, i find myself blaming the centrists and the dnc.

Not that it really matters anymore. Their incompetence has likely ended this american experiment. Its sad. My family was here in the beginning…guess we’ll be here in the end as well.

Reading all that and only seeing this:

Democrats have too many problems to list but the presence of and appeal to centrists isn't one of them.

It's every bit as stupid as Yard Sale mindlessly squawking that Trump won because of pronouns.

 

[Kriptical]

The only hope we could have for a shift towards the left is that if someone like musk, who has money to burn, decided to buy media and social media companies just to do a reverse musk and promote socialism and communism. That will never happen of course, but I think that is the only way that it could ever work.

Agreed.
Also, and just to be clear. I mean economic policy. I could really care less about the social issues and find that course of action to be terribly unproductive with genX.
I swear..at the end of the day i think people like progressive policies delivered by someone who makes them feel rational and conservative. Think fdr’s new deal. But the thing is, that worked so well that the boomers and the older half of genX, that they thought they bootstrapped their way up. When, in actuality, it was a solid governmental foundation supporting society.


So many people fancy themselves, Howard Roark, when in fact their all a bunch of Elsworth Toohey clones(might have bumbled this reference. Been 30yrs since reading those books)

 

[opelgt1969]

@opelgt1969, do you think Trump was the better choice for gas prices and the cost of living for you? Why do you think that?

My choice was the leaser of the two evils and I was tired of Obama trying to continue running our government. I'm tired of our country sending our money overseas . Biden have you seen him lately he doesn't even know where he is. I don't think Harris ever did! Gas prices are not that much of a concern to me as I don't drive much anymore. Food cost is a very big concern four years ago I could afford to eat. I have no problem with inflation but when the cost of something goes up a dime doesn't mean the stores have to raise it a half dollar. I tired of people whining about Trump winning fair (someone even had Biden say this even though he's too bonkers to know he even made a speach). So all you Harris lovers get over it. Right back at you do you really think that Harris would be a better choice and why.

 

[sirjim73]

Meidas Touch has assembled every pledge and promise that "47" made while campaigning - verbally (and credit to them for sticking through that lot to find sense), on video, and in writing. There are 93 in total:

BUDGET & TAXES:
1. No taxes on tips.
2. Interest on car loans will be tax deductible.
3. No taxes on Social Security payments.
4. No taxes on any overtime income.
5. Across the board income tax cut for every taxpayer.
6. Make previous Trump tax cuts permanent.
7. Cut the corporate tax rate.
8. No cuts in benefits or changes in Social Security retirement age.
9. The federal budget will be cut by 33%.
10. Tax credits for home caregivers who are family members.
11. Repeal the Impound Control Act of 1974, which will prohibits a president from withholding funding approved by Congress in their budget that he disagrees with.
12. Interest rates on credit cards will be capped at 10%.

IMMIGRATION:
13. All migrants, including those with pending asylum claims, will be taken into custody and deported immediately by invoking the Alien Enemies Act of 1798.
14. Birthright citizenship will be ended by executive order. All persons who were born in the US to migrant parents will have their citizenship revoked and will be deported immediately.
15. Border will be closed with no migrants entering the US by moving thousands of US troops from overseas to be stationed on the southern border.
16. Border wall across southern US and Mexico will be completed.
17. All releases into the US of asylum seekers will be ended and Remain in Mexico policy reinstated.
18. Increase criminal penalties for illegal entry.
19. Reinstitute travel ban.

GENERAL DOMESTIC POLICY:
20. Construct 10 new 'Freedom Cities' in the US which will be completely free from all government regulations of any kind.
21. No EV mandates or subsidies.
22. Create a Central Bank Digital Currency.
23. Homelessness will be criminalized and all homeless in the US will be arrested and given the choice of incarceration or admission into a new federal tent city for treatment.
24. Federal tent cities for arrested homeless - "Homeless Rehabilitation Centers' - will be fully staffed with doctors, psychiatrists and social workers.
25. Send astronauts to the moon.
26. Send astronauts to Mars.
27. Open federal lands to new home construction.
28. Seize control of the District of Columbia and have all city agencies run and controlled by the federal government.
29. Build new national monuments.
30. Create a federal task force to combat anti-Christian bias.
31. Provide housing for all 33,000 homeless veterans.
32. IVF will be fully covered with no out-of-pocket costs to parents.
33. Create job training and skills programs for all recovering drug addicts.
34. Provide federal funding for faith-based drug treatment centers.
35. Expand the Family & Medical Leave Act to require all employers to give time off for drug rehabilitation programs.
36. Create a White House Task Force called 'Salute 250,' which will organize one year of festivities across the US from Memorial Day 2025 to July 4, 2026.
37. Create the 'Great American State Fair' which will be held in Iowa each year with exhibits from all 50 states. (Promised right before the Iowa Caucus).
38. Create 'The Patriot Games' which will be an annual national competition for high school athletes in every sport similar to the Olympics.
39. Everyone over 18 shall be given the option to opt out of all content moderation on social media platforms.
40. Content moderation on social media platforms must not use AI.
41. Former employees of FBI, CIA, NSA, DNI, DHS and DOD shall not be permitted to take any job with a social media company for 7 years after leaving government service.
42. Have the US opt out of the Paris Climate Accords.
43. Repeal Biden's Administrations motor vehicle emissions standards.
44. The US government and agencies will only recognize people for the gender on their original birth certificate for all purposes.
45. All healthcare providers who perform gender reassignment surgeries are people under 18 will be permanently terminated from Medicare and Medicaid.

EDUCATION:
46. Abolish the Department of Education.
47. Parents of all public schools can vote to remove a principal at any time.
48. School principals will be elected by parents each year.
49. Seize endowments of universities who either have DEI programs, consider race in admissions or hiring, or teach CRT. Endowments will be seized by levying a fine in lawsuits brought by DOJ that is equal to the amount in the endowment
50. A portion of money seized from university endowments will be used to compensate people who have been discriminated against in admissions and hiring due to DEI or preferences. (Intended for White people and Asians)
51. Deport foreign students who are pro-Hamas or make anti-American statements on campus.
52. End tenure for teachers and professors.
53. Increase merit pay for teachers.
54. Universal, national school choice for all school systems in the country.
55. Bible study will be instituted in public schools.
56. School prayer will be instituted in public schools.
57. All student who assaults a teacher or another student will be permanently expelled from that school.
58. All schools receive additional funding to "harden" them against school shooters and invaders.
59. College tuition at all colleges and universities will be reduced.
60. Create 'The American Academy' which will be a University run by the federal government. Tuition will be free. It will be paid for by money seized from other Universities' endowments. Full curriculum will be online available to all Americans for free. Students will receive a fully credentialed bachelor's degree.
61. $10,000 per child tax credit for home schooling.
62. All high school and college accreditors shall be fired immediately with accreditation services replaced by a group appointed by the president.
63. Revoke federal funding for all non-profits and academic programs dedicated to combatting disinformation and misinformation online.
64. Teacher certification will be changed and governed by a new federal agency that will only grant certifications to teachers who "embrace patriotic values."

FOREIGN POLICY & NATIONAL DEFENSE:
65. Require the EU to reimburse the US for all aid provided to Ukraine from the time of Russia's invasion to present.
66. End Ukraine war within 24 hours of taking office.
67. End the conflict between Israel and Gaza within 24 hours.
68. End violence inside Lebanon.
69. Create an Iron Dome Missile Defense Shield that will protect the entire US.
70. Increase defense spending to highest levels in history.
71. China will prevent the export of all fentanyl precursors.

TRADE:
72. Across the board 10% tariff on all foreign imports.
73. Tariffs of 20-60% imposed on all goods imported from China.
74. Revoke China's Most Favored Nation Status for trade.
75. Stop importation of all EVs from China.
76. All companies with plants in China or importing parts manufactured in China will be banned from conducting any business with the US government. (Proposed when Musk was supporting Desantis).
77. Tariff placed on all imports of Ibuprofen, Hydrocortisone, Acetaminophen, and Penicillin until 100% of each drug sold in the US is manufactured in the US.
78. The Trump Reciprocal Trade Act will impose tariffs on all imports equal to tariffs imposed by a foreign country on US products.
79. Chinese companies will be forced to sell all US holdings in energy, tech, telecommunications, farmland, natural resources, and medical supplies.
80. Return all auto manufacturing jobs from US auto companies with plants in Mexico to the US by imposting huge tariffs on Mexico.

ENERGY POLICY:
81. Authorize new drilling for oil to increase production above current levels.
82. Lift ban on exports of natural gas to other countries.
83. Electricity and home energy bills will be reduced by 50%.
84. New nuclear power plants will be authorized and constructed.
85. Over 200 new power plants using coal and other fossil fuels will be constructed.
86. All electric grids will be modernized.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:
87. Pardon defendants convicted and arrested for crimes related to J6 and stolen classified documents.
88. Have the US Navy implement a naval blockade to prevent all fentanyl precursors from entering the US by sea.
89. Federal immunity for state and local police officers to prohibit civil rights and excessive force lawsuits being brought against them.
90. Death penalty for human trafficking offenses.
91. People convicted of selling drugs will receive the death penalty.
92. Pardon convicted drug trafficker Ross Ulbricht (promise to Libertarian Party).
93. DOJ will investigate and prosecute local District Attorneys believed to have persecuted because of their religious believes, such as anti-abortion activists outside clinics.

As you can see, there's a wide range of truly fantasist, totally unworkable, proper stupid, dumb, knee-jerk, off-the-cuff, contradictory, vaguely okay, populist, tyrannical, and unconstitutional in there.

Bets on how many he keeps?

Can we agree that 31 should be on any and every manifesto?
25 should happen within 4 years anyway, obviously Musk wants that, but since China will be doing the same by then I don't think the US has any choice politically unless the US REALLY wants to look like its no longer a "superpower"?
I don't know whether 82 applies to all countries or just some, since your post doesnt clarify (probably because Trump didn't). Since Germany still buys its gas from Putin mainly, if it applies to Germany currently, that would be a positive in most eyes, providing Russia and possibly others are still banned?

Most of the rest is fantasy or really bad ideas...

 

[Scaff]

My choice was the leaser of the two evils

and I was tired of Obama trying to continue running our government.

He wasn't (lie No.1)

I'm tired of our country sending our money overseas .

Go on then tell us, as a percentage, how much of the US budget is spent on overseas aid.

Biden have you seen him lately he doesn't even know where he is.

I have and he quite clearly does (lie no. 2)

I don't think Harris ever did!

Lie No. 3

Gas prices are not that much of a concern to me as I don't drive much anymore.

Good for you.

Food cost is a very big concern four years ago I could afford to eat. I have no problem with inflation but when the cost of something goes up a dime doesn't mean the stores have to raise it a half dollar.

And that's going to improve under Trump how?

I tired of people whining about Trump winning fair (someone even had Biden say this even though he's too bonkers to know he even made a speach). So all you Harris lovers get over it.

You mean just like Trump fans got over it? Most of his fans still can't get over the fact he lost in '20 and still deny it.

Right back at you do you really think that Harris would be a better choice and why.

People have already explained this, in depth.

 

[Joey D]

Food cost is a very big concern four years ago I could afford to eat. I have no problem with inflation but when the cost of something goes up a dime doesn't mean the stores have to raise it a half dollar.

My brother in Christ, that's what inflation is. It's going to get worse under Trump, too, since our economy is tied to the global economy. If you put a tariff on something from China, stores will raise their prices because they don't want to lose out on profits. How...how do you not understand this? It's like part of the most basic fundamentals of the economy. If your input costs go up, so do your output costs.

 

[TexRex]

My brother in Christ, that's what inflation is. It's going to get worse under Trump, too, since our economy is tied to the global economy. If you put a tariff on something from China, stores will raise their prices because they don't want to lose out on profits. How...how do you not understand this? It's like part of the most basic fundamentals of the economy. If your input costs go up, so do your output costs.

Horseshoe theory is wild. Commie-connie wants price controls.

Edit: Harris actually proposed them. (That was bad.)

Modern American conservatism is mental illness.

 

[opelgt1969]

He wasn't (lie No.1)

Go on then tell us, as a percentage, how much of the US budget is spent on overseas aid.

I have and he quite clearly does (lie no. 2)

Lie No. 3

Good for you.

And that's going to improve under Trump how?

You mean just like Trump fans got over it? Most of his fans still can't get over the fact he lost in '20 and still deny it.

People have already explained this, in depth.

Why is it that moderators just because your a moderator on a website think that ya'll are so smart and know what's best for a country that you don't live in?

 

[Kriptical]

Reading all that and only seeing this:

Democrats have too many problems to list but the presence of and appeal to centrists isn't one of them.

It's every bit as stupid as Yard Sale mindlessly squawking that Trump won because of pronouns.

30yrs of faux pragmatism, and electoral failure, paint a different picture. End of the day, democrats never get enough centrists to show up. Not enough to actually pass legislation. In their best years, all they ever accomplish is getting enough votes to create a log jam. At least in my lifetime, and im closing in on 50.

Im just saying running the same prototypical candidates with varying levels of prog/lib window dressing has brought us to this point. Maybe its time to try something else.

…its not just that they lost. Its that this was the equivalent of the Canadian hockey team being blown out by Jamaica. I realize im doing a disservice to canada with this analogy…. Apologies ^^

 

[Joey D]

Why is it that moderators just because your a moderator on a website think that ya'll are so smart and know what's best for a country that you don't live in?

Are you just going to keep avoiding questions, or what? I know you're preoccupied thinking about the reproductive system of minors and all, but a discussion entails actually answering questions.

You don't need to be from the US to understand what's happening. It might surprise you, but there are a number of intelligent people capable of forming a rational argument who aren't from America. Just like there are plenty of people who are from America that know 🤬 all about how the country works.

 

[Scaff]

Why is it that moderators just because your a moderator on a website

It has nothing to do with me being a moderator, odd attempt at a flex.

think that ya'll are so smart and know what's best for a country that you don't live in?

I've looked at what both parties and candidates have said and via critical analysis and past actions looked at what would appear to be the best option for the US and the world.

A better question is why do you keep posting blatant lies and avoiding answering questions?

 

[TexRex]

30yrs of faux pragmatism, and electoral failure, paint a different picture. End of the day, democrats never get enough centrists to show up. Not enough to actually pass legislation. In their best years, all they ever accomplish is getting enough votes to create a log jam. At least in my lifetime, and im closing in on 50.

Im just saying running the same prototypical candidates with varying levels of prog/lib window dressing has brought us to this point. Maybe its time to try something else.

…its not just that they lost. Its that this was the equivalent of the Canadian hockey team being blown out by Jamaica. I realize im doing a disservice to canada with this analogy…. Apologies ^^

You want electoral and legislative losses to be about where politicians land on a little line. That's lunacy.

Why is it that moderators just because your a moderator on a website think that ya'll are so smart and know what's best for a country that you don't live in?

Throw a bitchfit instead of offering reasoned arguments. Very Trumpy.

 

[TumeK5]

A better question is why do you keep posting blatant lies and avoiding answering questions?

Because Biden beat Medicare to death, and he hasn't received his medicine since.

See? I was right

 

[opelgt1969]

It has nothing to do with me being a moderator, odd attempt at a flex.

I've looked at what both parties and candidates have said and via critical analysis and past actions looked at what would appear to be the best option for the US and the world.

A better question is why do you keep posting blatant lies and avoiding answering questions?

Just get over it Trump won

 

[TexRex]

My god, is there a single one of them that isn't a little piss baby?