2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[DK]

Cue Republicans complaining that Biden shouldn't step down because of the people who voted for him in the primaries

Seriously, where is their decency?? Shame on them.

You love to see it.
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1815186790422032871

 

[TexRex]

The "normal" ones are having a normal one.

Language warning for the article proper as it cites profane remarks without any attempt to censor.

MAGA Melts Down Over Mike Pence’s Very Normal Announcement on Biden

MAGA’s reaction to Pence’s Biden announcement shows the dark road ahead on the 2024 race.

newrepublic.com

On Monday, Mike Pence praised Biden’s decision to end his presidential bid and called for national unity. Despite the normalcy of Pence’s rhetoric, MAGA posters immediately began blasting the former vice president for his supposed traitorousness.

“President Joe Biden made the right decision for our country and I thank him for putting the interests of our Nation ahead of his own,” Pence wrote on X (formerly Twitter). “After the assassination attempt on President Trump and President Biden’s decision to end his campaign, now is a time for leaders in both parties to project calm and send a message of strength and resolve to America’s friends and enemies alike that, whatever the state of our politics, the American people are strong and our American military stands ready to defend our freedom and our vital national interests anywhere in the world.”

The statement was a tame call for national unity (albeit with some jingoism peppered in). Pence biographer Tom LoBianco called it “remarkably normal given the tone of things.”

But Pence has been persona non grata in Trump world since his refusal to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election, and his post was flooded with replies deeming his banal call for civility further proof of his turncoat status.

The conservative interest group the Association of Mature American Citizens posted, “Praising Biden, pathetic.” Conservative commentator Joey Mannarino said, “This is why we consider you a traitor, Mike. **** off.” Various other MAGA accounts left comments like, “Judas Pence has spoken,” “You knew what was at risk by certifying a stolen election yet you did it anyway,” “We are only in this mess because of you, so shut the **** up,” and so on.

The MAGA outrage over Pence’s quite ordinary statement reveals his own party’s limited appetite for the unity he espouses.

 

[05XR8]

Oh mature indeed.

 

[dylansan]

I don't even know what's what anymore. Who are these progressives you talk about? Like Berkeley/Brooklyn baristas or blue collar union workers? Because the former probably don't matter and the latter seem to be aligning themselves to the right more and more because of identity politics even if its against their own self interest. I think the truth is that huge swathes of progressive voters simply don't matter and are not worth pursuing because they are concentrated in deeply blue states that aren't in play to begin with, like CA, NY, MA, IL, WA, OR or in deep blue cities within red states that are also not in play, like Austin, Dallas, Houston, Miami, New Orleans, etc. The winner-takes-all system produces distorted results.

A majority of Americans support Medicare for All, raising the minimum wage to $15, etc.

And the majority of opponents to these policies are probably voting for Trump no matter what. Among people the Dems could actually court, these policies have a ton of support. It's not a handful of voters.

Now, people may have hesitated to vote for progressive candidates in primaries for fear they couldn't win against a republican, but Bernie did so well for a reason.

I'm not sure what you mean about concentrated areas. Swing states have cities too. There are plenty of progressives in every potential swing state on the map.

The Democratic Party's problem is that it would rather battle Republicans for moderate votes (and lose) than actually run on policies that are hugely popular within their own potential base. (And Biden's handling of Israel did him no favors at all)

 

[McLaren]

The "normal" ones are having a normal one.

Language warning for the article proper as it cites profane remarks without any attempt to censor.

MAGA Melts Down Over Mike Pence’s Very Normal Announcement on Biden

MAGA’s reaction to Pence’s Biden announcement shows the dark road ahead on the 2024 race.

newrepublic.com

Pence has the potential to do the funniest thing of all time & just chuck an endorsement behind Harris to really piss those people off.

 

[Touring Mars]

Considering some of those people actually called for him to be murdered while they stormed the Capitol (and actually did kill people in the process), I'd say he had every right to recommend anyone else but their guy.

I will still never quite understand how the GOP managed to pivot so far away from decency that they can still massively support and endorse Trump, in spite of the fact that Trump was not only unapologetic, but actively appeared to side with those calling for Pence's murder...

 

[Joey D]

A majority of Americans support Medicare for All, raising the minimum wage to $15, etc.

It's pretty split. While Medicare for All has a slim majority in some polls, it's not something that I see being pushed. For example, the quickest way for me to not vote for you would be to suggest more government-run healthcare. The government can't run healthcare now nor do I want them anywhere near my healthcare decisions. Private insurance needs work, but having the government take it over would be horrific.

Progressive issues just aren't something many Americans are for, especially older Americans (and they're the ones who vote). For many others, being progressive on social issues is fine, but not fiscal ones. I consider myself fairly progressive on social issues and would have no problem supporting them, even if I don't really agree with them. But fiscally? The government needs to leave the money I work hard for alone and that would be a quick way to lose my support.

America needs someone who's around the American center since anyone too far one way or the other is set to create too much of a divide.

 

[HenrySwanson]

So the latest conspiracy is that Biden is already dead, and the tweets are being sent by other people....

 

[dylansan]

It's pretty split. While Medicare for All has a slim majority in some polls, it's not something that I see being pushed.

That same data shows 72% of Democrats think healthcare should be government-run.

Progressive issues just aren't something many Americans are for, especially older Americans (and they're the ones who vote).

You'll have to explain to me how "a majority of voters" as you freely admit (though "slim"), equates to "not many Americans".

For many others, being progressive on social issues is fine, but not fiscal ones. I consider myself fairly progressive on social issues and would have no problem supporting them, even if I don't really agree with them. But fiscally? The government needs to leave the money I work hard for alone and that would be a quick way to lose my support.

America needs someone who's around the American center since anyone too far one way or the other is set to create too much of a divide.

With all due respect, while I support your ability to vote for a candidate who represents your views, I think if the Democratic Party focuses too strongly on voters like you, it'll be a losing strategy.

There will be a divide no matter what. Republicans will not work with a Democratic president no matter how much they lean to the right, and even if they did it would only mean the actual work that gets done will be between the center and the far right, i.e. no left wing policy gets implemented at all.

Also, Democrats need to work on messaging to make it clear they don't need to raise taxes on average americans one penny to pay for things. Fund the IRS and catch tax fraud among the highers earners and businesses, raise taxes on only the extremely wealthy, and cut wasteful military spending. Better healthcare systems also save a lot of money because it's a lot cheaper to screen for illness and prevent it than it is to treat it after it becomes a problem (and pay for disability, lost productivity, etc).

 

[Danoff]

Two things are making me giggle today.

1) The RNC was totally focused around Biden. Oops!
2) Harris is a former prosecutor and would be running against a convicted felon.

 

[Touring Mars]

So the latest conspiracy is that Biden is already dead, and the tweets are being sent by other people....

What, no...!! There's no way Biden's tweets have been sent by other people!

 

[Joey D]

That same data shows 72% of Democrats think healthcare should be government-run.

I don't doubt 72% of Democrats support it. But in order to win a presidential election, you need to court independents. It's part of the reason Trump is going to have a difficult time because his positions are too extreme for many independents. However, the question remains: will they vote for Biden's replacement?

You'll have to explain to me how "a majority of voters" as you freely admit (though "slim"), equates to "not many Americans".

I didn't say majority; I said many. I don't know the number, but it's not negligible. Maybe it's the majority, maybe not. I can't find any recent data on it. A Pew poll from 2021, suggests progressive left people make up 6% of the public, 7% of voters, 8% of 2020 voters, and 12% of Democrats. That number could be higher now, but I can't see it being more than double.

With all due respect, while I support your ability to vote for a candidate who represents your views, I think if the Democratic Party focuses too strongly on voters like you, it'll be a losing strategy.

It's a losing strategy not to go after independents. Gallup suggests 43% of voters are independent, that leaves 27% for the Republicans and 27% for the Democrats. While you could probably win an election courting 27% of a voting block thanks to the electoral college, it would be incredibly difficult.

There will be a divide no matter what. Republicans will not work with a Democratic president no matter how much they lean to the right, and even if they did it would only mean the actual work that gets done will be between the center and the far right, i.e. no left wing policy gets implemented at all.

Of course, Democrats won't work with Republicans and Republicans won't work with Democrats. The system has led to too much extremism stoked by the 24 news cycle that this is where we are. Our best chance to at least accomplish something is to have a relatively moderate government that's capable of compromise instead of just trying to block the other side.

Also, Democrats need to work on messaging to make it clear they don't need to raise taxes on average americans one penny to pay for things. Fund the IRS and catch tax fraud among the highers earners and businesses, raise taxes on only the extremely wealthy, and cut wasteful military spending. Better healthcare systems also save a lot of money because it's a lot cheaper to screen for illness and prevent it than it is to treat it after it becomes a problem (and pay for disability, lost productivity, etc).

Now I don't believe I'm wealthy, but Danoff typically does the breakdown of who pays their fair share of taxes when April comes around. I almost always pay more than my share of taxes and I'm decidedly middle class. For as much as politicians talk about catering to the middle class, they don't actually care about them. I absolutely feel like I'd be paying more in taxes than I already am.

I don't disagree about a better healthcare system either. But I can't see how a government run system would be better and given how unproductive anything with Medicare and Medicaid is right now, I can't imagine productivity going up either.

 

[Danoff]

Now I don't believe I'm wealthy, but Danoff typically does the breakdown of who pays their fair share of taxes when April comes around. I almost always pay more than my share of taxes and I'm decidedly middle class. For as much as politicians talk about catering to the middle class, they don't actually care about them. I absolutely feel like I'd be paying more in taxes than I already am.

Recently the focus has been on taxing billionaires. That seems unconstitutional to me, but it calms down a lot of middle-class folks about tax increases.

 

[McLaren]

So the latest conspiracy is that Biden is already dead, and the tweets are being sent by other people....

Biden's actually been dead for years, and the current President is a doppelganger whilst Trump secretly runs the country.

 

[Spacegoat]

Spoiler

It'll be interesting to see how the media handles all of Trumps ramblings and incoherent behavior now he's not running against Biden. I'm guessing they'll still largely ignore it.

 

[TexRex]

Ah.

Ohio Sen. George Lang apologizes for 'divisive' civil war comment made at JD Vance rally

State Sen. George Lang referenced civil war at JD Vance's first hometown rally in Middletown, Ohio. He later apologized.

www.cincinnati.com

Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance's hometown state senator said at his rally Monday that if Republicans don't win the 2024 election it could lead to a civil war to "save the country."

The comments came from Ohio state Sen. George Lang, R-West Chester, right after he took the stage at Vance's first solo rally in Middletown and chanted, "Fight! Fight! Fight!"

"If it comes down to a civil war... we are the last stand to save it," he said at a Middletown High School auditorium, less than an hour before Vance was set to take the stage. The crowd cheered in response. Vance graduated from the high school in 2003.

Lang quickly segued into touting other Ohio-born politicians from Butler County, name-checking former speaker of the House John Boehner and Ohio Supreme Court Justice Sharon Kennedy, and even noting former 2024 presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy, who grew up in Cincinnati.

The state senator apologized for the remarks on [Twitter] after the rally.

"Remarks I made earlier today at a rally in Middletown do not accurately reflect my views," Lang wrote in the statement. "I regret the divisive remarks I made in the excitement of the moment on stage. Especially in light of the assassination attempt on President Trump last week, we should all be mindful of what is said at political events, myself included."

Lang represents Ohio's 4th state senate district, which includes Butler County.

He was elected senator in 2020. He served as a West Chester Township trustee and served two terms in the Ohio House of Representatives before he was elected to the Ohio Senate.

He is running for reelection in November after winning a three-way primary in March.

Edit: lol. lmao. The rat bitch looked jaundiced in the video so I googled it and...[snort]...I just can't. The only thing this pussy poses a legitimate threat to is a jar of Jet-Puffed.

 

[Darla Starch]

So the latest conspiracy is that Biden is already dead, and the tweets are being sent by other people....

Weekend at Joey's 🥳

 

[UKMikey]

Weekend at Joey's 🥳

Mate, they already did this one. 🥱

 

[MIE1992]

Biden's actually been dead for years, and the current President is a doppelganger whilst Trump secretly runs the country.

Liquid Biden?!

 

[dylansan]

I didn't say majority; I said many. I don't know the number, but it's not negligible. Maybe it's the majority, maybe not. I can't find any recent data on it. A Pew poll from 2021, suggests progressive left people make up 6% of the public, 7% of voters, 8% of 2020 voters, and 12% of Democrats. That number could be higher now, but I can't see it being more than double.

I was referring to the number of people who support specific policies like medicare for all, raising the federal minimum wage, etc. I don't really care about the different ways voters can be divided into distinct groups and given labels. The point is whether people support an actual policy. And there are a lot of popular policies the democratic party is ignoring which could generate a lot of enthusiasm and distinguish the party for all those people who say "both sides are the same."

Give people a reason to show up besides "Trump is worse!"

 

[Keef]

This

Ah.

Ohio Sen. George Lang apologizes for 'divisive' civil war comment made at JD Vance rally

State Sen. George Lang referenced civil war at JD Vance's first hometown rally in Middletown, Ohio. He later apologized.

www.cincinnati.com

Edit: lol. lmao. The rat bitch looked jaundiced in the video so I googled it and...[snort]...I just can't. The only thing this pussy poses a legitimate threat to is a jar of Jet-Puffed.

I find that the things people say when they’re in an excited mood, or when they’re intoxicated, are most definitely their true beliefs. I’ve just accepted the fact that my truth comes out when I’m amped up, or after two flights at the brewery.

Fortunately I’m not an extremist asshat so I haven’t gotten in too much trouble.

 

[Jezza819]

Give people a reason to show up besides "Trump is worse!"

I don't know. I think that's all you need really. Whatever the question that is being asked, the answer always comes back, "Trump is worse".

 

[Yard_Sale]

I don't know. I think that's all you need really. Whatever the question that is being asked, the answer always comes back, "Trump is worse".

You’d be surprised. Unless someone is particularly politically motivated and/or has a deal-breaker issue for them personally, A LOT of people vote with their wallets.

My wife works at a firm that at face-value, would seem to be about 90/10 progressive vs conservative. I’d still say that her company, and others industries like hers might still “poll” the same, but…


For the employees in their mid-late 20’s just getting started in their career, they were old enough to grasp the idea that the economy was better 4 years ago, and that their current salaries barely cover cost of living, rent, and a car payment…a house is generally not on their radar.

Then you got the late 30’s - mid 40’s crowd whom were either too young, or too busy messing around to capitalize on the 2008 housing market crash, and they too remember less inflation, better interest rates, and “relative to the aforementioned”, a more affordable housing market and just a better general economy, with retirement getting further and further away, not closer. Whether they understand all the intricacies is a different matter, but it’s just about a moot point to the layman who usually just take things at face value.


One of the biggest problem for the Harris-whatever administration, will be defending their economic record against Trump - when the Republican-ran economy was visibly better.

Abortion rights, which will no doubt be the center of Harris’s campaign, won’t be bringing in too many new voters.

 

[Danoff]

Then you got the late 30’s - mid 40’s crowd whom were either too young, or too busy messing around to capitalize on the 2008 housing market crash, and they too remember less inflation, better interest rates, and “relative to the aforementioned”, a more affordable housing market and just a better general economy, with retirement getting further and further away, not closer. Whether they understand all the intricacies is a different matter, but it’s just about a moot point to the layman who usually just take things at face value.

Here you pretend that you understand that just looking at whether you can afford a house, or whether there has been inflation, is too simplistic. But you say "the layman" won't understand "the intricacies". But then... you drop that pretense right here:

One of the biggest problem for the Harris-whatever administration, will be defending their economic record against Trump - when the Republican-ran economy was visibly better.

2020 was a terrible time for the economy. The US was in the grip of a pandemic, debt was skyrocketing, we had a looming unemployment and housing crisis. Every other day was a new forecast of apocalyptic economic news. 2020, the end of the Trump admin, was not a good time in US economics. Trump gets only a small part of the blame for that, it was largely caused by the pandemic and out of his control.

But... here we have the dichotomy.

We're either laypeople not looking at things in a nuanced way. In which case we conclude that 2020, the end of the Trump admin, had a disaster of an economy, and therefore Trump is to blame for economic conditions far worse than today.

OR

We're nuanced people who consider what's actually going on, in which case we realize that Trump doesn't get much of the blame for 2020, but also didn't do that great a job with the economy or being robust going into the pandemic. Likewise Biden doesn't get a ton of credit for pulling us out of economy apocalypse with only a relatively mild inflation (relatively). But also we have to appreciate that we managed to avoid all of the potential doom scenarios and are left just dealing with higher real-estate, like the rest of the world, in the wake of the pandemic.

Above you tried to have it both ways. We're lay people with Biden, but nuanced with Trump. We judge Biden for pandemic inflation, but excuse Trump for the pandemic disaster Biden started with. You don't get this both ways. If you pretend that you do, you're just illustrating your particular motivation and bias. When you try to have it both ways, your selection of how to be hypocritical exposes your personal preference.

Abortion rights, which will no doubt be the center of Harris’s campaign, won’t be bringing in too many new voters.

Abortion rights have been swinging elections so far.

 

[TexRex]

Welp...

 

[McLaren]

Welp...

These two are such nobodies, they don't even get invited to Conservative conventions where all the grifters get together.

 

[TexRex]

These two are such nobodies, they don't even get invited to Conservative conventions where all the grifters get together.

Wait...they're not allowed in the big house? Gosh.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Here you pretend that you understand that just looking at whether you can afford a house, or whether there has been inflation, is too simplistic. But you say "the layman" won't understand "the intricacies". But then... you drop that pretense right here:

2020 was a terrible time for the economy. The US was in the grip of a pandemic, debt was skyrocketing, we had a looming unemployment and housing crisis. Every other day was a new forecast of apocalyptic economic news. 2020, the end of the Trump admin, was not a good time in US economics. Trump gets only a small part of the blame for that, it was largely caused by the pandemic and out of his control.

But... here we have the dichotomy.

We're either laypeople not looking at things in a nuanced way. In which case we conclude that 2020, the end of the Trump admin, had a disaster of an economy, and therefore Trump is to blame for economic conditions far worse than today.

OR

We're nuanced people who consider what's actually going on, in which case we realize that Trump doesn't get much of the blame for 2020, but also didn't do that great a job with the economy or being robust going into the pandemic. Likewise Biden doesn't get a ton of credit for pulling us out of economy apocalypse with only a relatively mild inflation (relatively). But also we have to appreciate that we managed to avoid all of the potential doom scenarios and are left just dealing with higher real-estate, like the rest of the world, in the wake of the pandemic.

Above you tried to have it both ways. We're lay people with Biden, but nuanced with Trump. We judge Biden for pandemic inflation, but excuse Trump for the pandemic disaster Biden started with. You don't get this both ways. If you pretend that you do, you're just illustrating your particular motivation and bias. When you try to have it both ways, your selection of how to be hypocritical exposes your personal preference.

Abortion rights have been swinging elections so far.

May I suggest another way of looking at such voters' views on the economy:

That in 2020 they recognised they were in a once in a lifetime event and could understand the president had little control over the economy for that year. Fast forward to 2024 and they aren't willing to go in depth on why the economy is what it is like now, since the pandemic was "so long ago". Years are an eon in politics: will the assassination attempt even be a voter issue in a few months time?

Of course, what they're looking for may be more complex than just the economy, but that's another point:

Explained | How undecided voters are responding to Biden dropping out

For months, many voters have expressed disappointment with their options in November. The question now for some of them is whether a nominee like Harris -- or some Democratic wild card -- might feel like the choice they have been waiting for.

www.deccanherald.com

 

[Yard_Sale]

Here you pretend that you understand that just looking at whether you can afford a house, or whether there has been inflation, is too simplistic. But you say "the layman" won't understand "the intricacies". But then... you drop that pretense right here:

2020 was a terrible time for the economy. The US was in the grip of a pandemic, debt was skyrocketing, we had a looming unemployment and housing crisis. Every other day was a new forecast of apocalyptic economic news. 2020, the end of the Trump admin, was not a good time in US economics. Trump gets only a small part of the blame for that, it was largely caused by the pandemic and out of his control.

But... here we have the dichotomy.

We're either laypeople not looking at things in a nuanced way. In which case we conclude that 2020, the end of the Trump admin, had a disaster of an economy, and therefore Trump is to blame for economic conditions far worse than today.

OR

We're nuanced people who consider what's actually going on, in which case we realize that Trump doesn't get much of the blame for 2020, but also didn't do that great a job with the economy or being robust going into the pandemic. Likewise Biden doesn't get a ton of credit for pulling us out of economy apocalypse with only a relatively mild inflation (relatively). But also we have to appreciate that we managed to avoid all of the potential doom scenarios and are left just dealing with higher real-estate, like the rest of the world, in the wake of the pandemic.

Above you tried to have it both ways. We're lay people with Biden, but nuanced with Trump. We judge Biden for pandemic inflation, but excuse Trump for the pandemic disaster Biden started with. You don't get this both ways. If you pretend that you do, you're just illustrating your particular motivation and bias. When you try to have it both ways, your selection of how to be hypocritical exposes your personal preference.

Abortion rights have been swinging elections so far.

Come on dude, you know exactly what I’m saying


I chose my words carefully on purpose. Unless you REALLY follow politics and/or care about it enough about it to post opinions via various platforms, that person is very likely to only look at things optically at an epidermis level. Hell, even those that really care about politics are sometimes only capable of looking at things only epidermis-deep.

A LOT of democrats whom I sure they view themselves as smart, genuinely thought Trump wasn’t able to run when he got indicted in New York. Probably a lot of run of the mill Republicans thought that too, I’m sure.


Abortion was front and center last election. What I meant, is that the Democrats already have all of the devout Abortion rights activist. If anything, you might see some sort of insignificant shift from the center left to the center right, for my aforementioned reasons, because abortion rights are only “kinda” an issue to them. And your not all the sudden going to get Trump voters from last election all the sudden decide that abortion rights is NOW an issue to them. Trump didn’t lose the election over abortion rights. He lost the race in the first debate



One thing that I potentially see being one of Kamala’s big problems going forward, is that everyone has grown numb to Trump and his antics. Whereas Harris hasn’t really been thrust into the spotlight quite to this scale (and when she has, she’s just generally failed in the past). She was out of the 2020 race before anyone knew it, and the White House has also ran cover for her the past few years, keeping her out of the spotlight - because she’s just not very likeable.

It’s going to be a lot of people’s first time seeing her in this position, and i think there are a lot of questions around how she’ll be able to perform. Not to mention that Trump is running a pretty good campaign, just by virtue of turning the volume down to 8 for the majority of his 2024 bid

 

[TexRex]

Mind like a Rube Goldberg machine but there's maybe three pretty boring actions; five tops.