50 dead at Orlando club shooting.

[ukfan758]

This guy should have been under constant surveillance for his previous statements about terrorism. He should have never been allowed to obtain a weapon as a result.

From now on, anyone suspected of making comments like he did should be permanently under surveillance and be banned from using or purchasing weapons.

 

[FoRiZon]

Ah yes here we go again, let's say for example it would be 100 million of them who support and condone ISIS. Relatively speaking it would be a minor part of total Muslims. But for me that part is more than big enough to be seen as a threat to our societies, hence a big part.


Well seeing moderate Muslims are the ones who most likely live among the extremist ones, and have a bigger chance of coming in contact with them (at the Mosque for example); the answer to your question is pretty straightforward no?


Please do explain how you end up sensing the situation better than me then.

By that logic, I cant wait to see criminals around the world greatly reduced because people living next door to them are aware.

You see, the world doesnt work as simple as you might think.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

anyone suspected of making comments like he did should be permanently under surveillance

George Orwell is rolling in his grave.

 

[ukfan758]

George Orwell is rolling in his grave.

So what's your solution then?

 

[mustafur]

Remove Saudi Arabia from all Western Allies list, enforce an embargo, get all Allies to vote them off the UNs Human rights Board(Why the **** are they even on it) and remove sanctions from Russia to compensate for oil losses.

That will teach the Saudis for Funding ISIS, blackmailing US for allowing the media to report on how bat **** crazy they are and being a general cancer on the world.

Nearly all US intervention in the middle east outside Israel has been a direct Saudi interest in play.

 

[MarchingSaint]

Sad news indeed, it really hurts to hear about these killings.
Of course, here in Italy the predominant opinion is of course related to the second amendament ( it's too easy to retrieve guns, everyone can buy a gun...and so on.) but in my honest opinion the problem is much more complex and related to a *sigh* cultural and radicalized religious matter.
According to Pew polling at least one in eight and one on three Muslis believe that suicide bombing can be justified depending on which western nation you look at.
I'm not trying to put one against another, I'm just looking at facts. Perhaps true that this was a lone wolf's doing, you've gotta take notice of the fact that all that was needed is just a single man.
I'm not talking about tha majority of Muslims, i don't wan to offend anyone, but yet again In a 2013 speech Sheikh Sekaleshfar said this regarding gays: “Death is the sentence. We know there’s nothing to be embarrassed about this, death is the sentence...We have to have that compassion for people, with homosexuals, it's the same, out of compassion, let’s get rid of them now.” This shows how "the melting pot" has stuff that won't mix together, and the state can't help one without stigmatizing the other.
I'd hate to be banned, i don't really want to be signaled for "hatespeech" or whatever you call it. I'm just pointing out at written data and opinions so i'd prefer this post to be cancelled instead.
Peace

 

[FoRiZon]

Remove Saudi Arabia from all Western Allies list, enforce an embargo, get all Allies to vote them off the UNs Human rights Board(Why the **** are they even on it) and remove sanctions from Russia to compensate for oil losses.

That will teach the Saudis for Funding ISIS, blackmailing US for allowing the media to report on how bat **** crazy they are and being a general cancer on the world.

Nearly all US intervention in the middle east outside Israel has been a direct Saudi interest in play.

Proof?

 

[mustafur]

Proof?

It's Not Surprising Saudi Arabia just like ISIS practise the same format of Islam(Wahhabi Sunni), basically has the same justice system Structure, and has been pulling strings around the middle east since the 70s.

But because US buys their oil we get blinded to how seriously messed up this country is.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

 

[Formula1269]

Sad news indeed, it really hurts to hear about these killings.
Of course, here in Italy the predominant opinion is of course related to the second amendament ( it's too easy to retrieve guns, everyone can buy a gun...and so on.) but in my honest opinion the problem is much more complex and related to a *sigh* cultural and radicalized religious matter.
According to Pew polling at least one in eight and one on three Muslis believe that suicide bombing can be justified depending on which western nation you look at.
I'm not trying to put one against another, I'm just looking at facts. Perhaps true that this was a lone wolf's doing, you've gotta take notice of the fact that all that was needed is just a single man.
I'm not talking about tha majority of Muslims, i don't wan to offend anyone, but yet again In a 2013 speech Sheikh Sekaleshfar said this regarding gays: “Death is the sentence. We know there’s nothing to be embarrassed about this, death is the sentence...We have to have that compassion for people, with homosexuals, it's the same, out of compassion, let’s get rid of them now.” This shows how "the melting pot" has stuff that won't mix together, and the state can't help one without stigmatizing the other.
I'd hate to be banned, i don't really want to be signaled for "hatespeech" or whatever you call it. I'm just pointing out at written data and opinions so i'd prefer this post to be cancelled instead.
Peace

There are racist, homophobic and misogynist nuts everywhere. There's one running for president. The problem is guns. Period. There are far too many of them out there and it's too easy for unstable people own them.

 

[mustafur]

There are racist, homophobic and misogynist nuts everywhere. There's one running for president. The problem is guns. Period.

Especially when a certain doctrine calls for the deaths of Homosexuals by Stoning.

 

[McLaren]

This'll will become endless then if they won't surrender, I don't think it is possible to just kill every one of ISIS and even then, are we truly the better side? We would be doing exactly the same thing as ISIS is doing but in Vice Versa?

Last I checked, we didn't deploy soldiers to go into groups of civilians praising Jesus and then detonating themselves. Absolute nonsense.

All of ISIS getting killed off feels like a Pipe Dream, them surrendering is probably the only option to stop the madness.

You kill off enough to deter them from striking again.

I think they can, I do believe in redemption and not hogging on what they did in past tense. Sure lifetime in prison or any punishment probably means nothing to you for what they did but I do believe that you can't just kill everyone off especially since not all people are alike.

Lets not forget this person was an American born.

Good luck explaining to countless family members of the fallen that you made an effort to actually save a bunch of radical terrorists into becoming productive people. No amount of sorrow from these extremists will ever excuse what terrorist groups stood for. These people strive on radicalizing others, they're not going to be saved to think otherwise when they believe suiciding is for a higher purpose.

 

[Com Fox]

Last I checked, we didn't deploy soldiers to go into groups of civilians praising Jesus and then detonating themselves. Absolute nonsense.

Killing ourselves would not be the problem, killing thousands of people because of what they believe in is. Doesn't matter if what they believe in if some people in the countries ISIS are mostly at have yet to hurt people. While we are getting rid of ISIS, the same amount if not more Innocent People who have done nothing wrong will be casualties, some even targeted just because of an opinion, is that even right???

You kill off enough to deter them from striking again.

Judging by how broad ISIS are and how some citizens in our own countries are joining ISIS and pretty much destroying from the inside, this won't do 🤬

Good luck explaining to countless family members of the fallen that you made an effort to actually save a bunch of radical terrorists into becoming productive people. No amount of sorrow from these extremists will ever excuse what terrorist groups stood for. These people strive on radicalizing others, they're not going to be saved to think otherwise when they believe suiciding is for a higher purpose.

A lot of past tense here, while I do think Punishment should be in order, if any of them are ready to be reform (which is unlikely I'll admit due to there heavy beliefs), I think they should be able to be accepted by society instead of having figuratively tattoo'd on their life because of something they did instead of what they are doing (though still checked on in case they are lying and prepare another assault)

 

[McLaren]

Killing ourselves would not be the problem, killing thousands of people because of what they believe in is. Doesn't matter if what they believe in if some people in the countries ISIS are mostly at have yet to hurt people. While we are getting rid of ISIS, the same amount if not more Innocent People who have done nothing wrong will be casualties, some even targeted just because of an opinion, is that even right???

If someone believes in killing you for nothing more than hatred & believing their god will grant them eternal bliss, you better be prepared to kill them first. We aren't purposely attacking defenseless, unaware civilians like they are. That's the difference between us & them.

Your kind of rationalizing is what gets people killed because you're too worried about what they believe in and if it's right to kill them for it, whilst they're not hesitating to murder you without second thought.

Judging by how broad ISIS are and how some citizens in our own countries are joining ISIS and pretty much destroying from the inside, this won't do 🤬

That's the point. You kill enough to disband the organization & there's nothing left for people to join. At best, wiping out their control should be enough for people to second guess joining.

A lot of past tense here, while I do think Punishment should be in order, if any of them are ready to be reform (which is unlikely I'll admit due to there heavy beliefs), I think they should be able to be accepted by society instead of having figuratively tattoo'd on their life because of something they did instead of what they are doing (though still checked on in case they are lying and prepare another assault)

This is the biggest bunch of apologetic BS I've ever read. You think they'd give you this same opportunity?

These people convince others to kill themselves. None of these people are going to be accepted by society and they'll all probably end up murdered by society because of people like you thinking they deserve a second chance. People who didn't give the victims of their attacks a second chance, or any chance because they killed them by surprise. The sheer fact you think they should be checked on shows not even YOU completely trust them, and if they attacked again, society would likely come after you.

Every last one of them deserves a bullet to the head; that's their punishment. These people are trying to make the world live in fear of them & causing people to forgo their freedoms in the name of security checks and you're wanting to forgive them if they say, "I'm sorry. I'm ready to reform".

 

[Com Fox]

If someone believes in killing you for nothing more than hatred & believing their god will grant them eternal bliss, you better be prepared to kill them first. We aren't purposely attacking defenseless, unaware civilians like they are. That's the difference between us & them.

Your kind of rationalizing is what gets people killed because you're too worried about what they believe in and if it's right to kill them for it, whilst they're not hesitating to murder you without second thought.

I'm not just talking about ISIS members, I don't care what happens to them, I'm talking about every innocent person who might actually support ISIS, have done nothing wrong except for supporting something we are against, what about all the other innocent people in the area, if we are trying to obliterate them all, all these unfortunate's will be killed off by either ISIS or us as either mistaken identity, casualty or just general assuming.

That's the point. You kill enough to disband the organization & there's nothing left for people to join. At best, wiping out their control should be enough for people to second guess joining.

You're acting like this is done in a single night, it would be a slow process and during that process every member of ISIS in our country will probably make haste and get rid of many people in our Country as possible.

This is the biggest bunch of apologetic BS I've ever read.

These people convince others to kill themselves. None of these people are going to be accepted by society and they'll all probably end up murdered by society because of people like you thinking they deserve a second chance. People who didn't give the victims of their attacks a second chance, or any chance because they killed them by surprise. The sheer fact you think they should be checked on shows not even YOU completely trust them.

Every last one of them deserves a bullet to the head; that's their punishment. These people are trying to make the world live in fear of them & causing people to forgo their freedoms in the name of security checks and you're wanting to forgive them if they say, "I'm sorry. I'm ready to reform".

This here kind of shows your lack of logic and reason in this whole debacle and only focused on your personal feelings, sound like all you want from this is justice and vengeance.

Yes they did the horrible things, and it is hard to not look back for some people but, I do think we aren't better if we just torture/kill of people who make a mistake who could actually reform, that's why I think they need to be checked on (also so they are protected by sensitive people who might actually try to kill them). Besides how you are seeing reforming is totally simplistic compared to how I see it. Of course just saying "sorry" wouldn't cut it.

and Yes, I am willing to forgive if they truly want to be reformed, I think us as a Society should be able to accept what happened the past and move on to make a good future instead of relying all our judgement based on the past which we have no control over.

 

[Carbonox]

Innocent person? Who supports ISIS?

That's called an oxymoron.

 

[Com Fox]

Innocent person? Who supports ISIS?

That's called an oxymoron.

Well I'm sure over where ISIS, there would people who while support ISIS haven't done anything.

Though I might be being to nice, I just didn't want to assume all ISIS supporters, actually perform terrible things like this.

 

[MarchingSaint]

There are racist, homophobic and misogynist nuts everywhere. There's one running for president. The problem is guns. Period. There are far too many of them out there and it's too easy for unstable people own them.

Occupy Democrats incites to ban automatic weapon and rifles due to this recent attack.
Little do they know, that Mateem used an AR-15. a Semi-automatic. Bringing water to the ocean literally

 

[Carbonox]

Well I'm sure over where ISIS, there would people who while support ISIS haven't done anything.

Though I might be being to nice, I just didn't want to assume all ISIS supporters, actually perform terrible things like this.

There's absolutely zero innocence to be found in supporting an organization slash fake state whose members take great daily joy in senseless violence, military action, heavy oppression and enslavement of a variety of groups including but not limited to women, LBGTQ and nonbelievers, more senseless violence, pedophilia, rape, cowardly attacks against civilian targets both in their immediate area and abroad, complete abandonment of civilization and intellectualism, and even more senseless violence particularly in the form of public executions.

So yes, you are being too nice and need to realize that tolerance is always a two-way street. You're only digging your own grave by seemingly forcing yourself to tolerate something that won't spare you an ounce of basic human decency in return.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not just talking about ISIS members, I don't care what happens to them, I'm talking about every innocent person who might actually support ISIS, have done nothing wrong except for supporting something we are against, what about all the other innocent people in the area, if we are trying to obliterate them all, all these unfortunate's will be killed off by either ISIS or us as either mistaken identity, casualty or just general assuming.

Anyone who supports ISIS can die with them; they're supporting terrorism.

And ISIS is already killing the innocent people in their controlled regions when they don't follow their rules.

DOHUK, Iraq — His heart began beating rapidly and he was short of breath. He’d just seen something on Facebook, a page specializing in news and information from Mosul, his hometown until the so-called Islamic State conquered it in June last year.

The young man, whom we’ll call Hassan to protect the anonymity of his family, spent two days in one of Mosul's prisons soon after the city fell to ISIS, as the extremist group commonly is known. Hassan’s father was jailed as well, and after they were released Hassan fled the city. But his father stayed. For the past 13 months, Hassan has been desperately hoping for news of his parent.

Now, on Facebook, he learned that ISIS has published a list of over 2,000 names identifying people it has executed.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/28/isis-death-lists-writing-on-the-walls.html

You're acting like this is done in a single night, it would be a slow process and during that process every member of ISIS in our country will probably make haste and get rid of many people in our Country as possible.

It already is a slow process.

This here kind of shows your lack of logic and reason in this whole debacle and only focused on your personal feelings, sound like all you want from this is justice and vengeance.

No, it's called calling you out on your ridiculous train of thought.

Yes they did the horrible things, and it is hard to not look back for some people but, I do think we aren't better if we just torture/kill of people who make a mistake who could actually reform, that's why I think they need to be checked on (also so they are protected by sensitive people who might actually try to kill them). Besides how you are seeing reforming is totally simplistic compared to how I see it. Of course just saying "sorry" wouldn't cut it.

and Yes, I am willing to forgive if they truly want to be reformed, I think us as a Society should be able to accept what happened the past and move on to make a good future instead of relying all our judgement based on the past which we have no control over.

This is beyond words. Blowing civilians up for no reason is a "mistake" and society should "accept it" and let terrorists live on because, "Hey guys, I know he took part in a group that killed thousands of people over the course of several attacks, but it happened in the past". Adding insult to injury, you want to protect them afterwards. It doesn't matter how you see reforming, they don't deserve it.

This is terrorist sympathizing wanting to give these people any second chance at life. If they want to truly reform, they've had more than enough time to do so. Otherwise, they made their choice in life and it is the ultimate sign of betrayal to victims' families to forgive them for what they did.

 

[Com Fox]

There's absolutely zero innocence to be found in supporting an organization slash fake state whose members take great daily joy in senseless violence, military action, heavy oppression and enslavement of a variety of groups including but not limited to women, LBGTQ and nonbelievers, more senseless violence, pedophilia, rape, cowardly attacks against civilian targets both in their immediate area and abroad, complete abandonment of civilization and intellectualism, and even more senseless violence particularly in the form of public executions.

So yes, you are being too nice and need to realize that tolerance is always a two-way street. You're only digging your own grave by seemingly forcing yourself to tolerate something that won't spare you an ounce of basic human decency in return.

I guess I was a bit uninformed there, I can see that now, thanks.

However some of my other points still stand:

It already is a slow process.

and this new approach will be so much faster...

No, it's called calling you out on your ridiculous train of thought.

Well since your solution is as extreme as to kill them all, anything else would seem ridiculous.

This is beyond words. Blowing civilians up for no reason is a "mistake" and society should "accept it" and let terrorists live on because, "Hey guys, I know he took part in a group that killed thousands of people over the course of several attacks, but it happened in the past". Adding insult to injury, you want to protect them afterwards. It doesn't matter how you see reforming, they don't deserve it.

This is terrorist sympathizing wanting to give these people any second chance at life. If they want to truly reform, they've had more than enough time to do so.

Many people in the battlefield don't know whether they make a mistake even when they do it. Usually it's with a clouded mind of what's right and wrong.

 

[Famine]

There are racist, homophobic and misogynist nuts everywhere. There's one running for president. The problem is guns. Period. There are far too many of them out there and it's too easy for unstable people own them.

That's exactly what I thought in the immediate aftermath of the Bataclan. The problem with France, I thought, was that its gun laws are so lax that it's too easy for unstable people to own them.

 

[Tornado]

So if gun stricter control is brought in an and I can't get a gun all I would have to do is walk down very alleyway to find a shady guy in a trench coat selling stolen guns?

Seemed to work for the guys who did Paris back in November.

 

[Dennisch]

Many people in the battlefield don't know whether they make a mistake even when they do it. Usually it's with a clouded mind of what's right and wrong.

'Let's throw this homo of the roof of this tall building because he's a homo.'

If you're in the crowd cheering, you are wrong and have no place in Western society.

Edit.

If you live in the West and think that it's wrong to be gay, you have no place in Western society.

 

[McLaren]

Many people in the battlefield don't know whether they make a mistake even when they do it. Usually it's with a clouded mind of what's right and wrong.

Does this look like a battlefield to you?

I was unaware of the war going on in Paris & Brussels and the other locations ISIS claim for attacking.
If you can't decide what's right & wrong about attacking innocent civilians, then there's no hope for you. I can not bare to read any more of this pity you want to give these people after everything they've done.

 

[Com Fox]

'Let's throw this homo of the roof of this tall building because he's a homo.'

If you're in the crowd cheering, you are wrong and have no place in Western society.

Maybe I'm not making myself clear (I tend to do that).

Lets take your example, if I saw that I would be horrified and be upset for sure, it is totally wrong to do that just because the person is a Homo.

However, I would be willing to forgive the man and move on if he is able to see what horrible move he did and is now with regret.

Does this look like a battlefield to you?

It was meant to be a figure of speech, if it came across incorrectly than what I intended then I do apologize.

 

[McLaren]

It was meant to be a figure of speech, if it came across incorrectly than what I intended then I do apologize.

It doesn't matter. Walking into a cafe or a concert or an airport, watching people going on about their lives causing zero harm to you & your first choice is to go and detonate a bomb, you have not made a "mistake". You've just killed & wounded an unforgivable amount of people.

You don't get to "change" or "regret" what you did. Should have done that beforehand and turned yourself in.

 

[Com Fox]

It doesn't matter. Walking into a cafe or a concert or an airport, watching people going on about their lives causing zero harm to you & your first choice is to go and detonate a bomb, you have not made a "mistake". You've just killed & wounded an unforgivable amount of people.

You don't get to "change" or "regret" what you did. Should have done that beforehand and turned yourself in.

It's not like they were thinking with a perfect clear mind, if they were, then wouldn't you think they wouldn't do it???

 

[mustafur]

It's not like they were thinking with a perfect clear mind, if they were, then wouldn't you think they wouldn't do it???

Please, help your self to a Quran.

 

[McLaren]

It's not like they were thinking with a perfect clear mind, if they were, then wouldn't you think they wouldn't do it???

Says who? All the planning these people do shows they have a pretty clear idea of what they're carrying out, considering it's done multiple times. You're acting as if these are misguided children.

 

[Com Fox]

Says who? All the planning these people do shows they have a pretty clear idea of what they're carrying out, considering it's done multiple times. You're acting as if these are misguided children.

If there definition of what is right is blowing themselves and killing everyone around them then I don't think the people carrying out these attacks are actually sane.