50 dead at Orlando club shooting.
- Thread starter Dennisch
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McLaren
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The punishment would be death. No justice system in the US or likely in the EU is going to let these people live if caught. You can be damn sure they'd face a horrific death if a Middle Eastern country grabs a hold of them.
Sometimes, some people just need to be put down. That's why we have a thing called the Darwin Awards for when they do it themselves.
mister dog
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- misterdog
- misterdog7
Don't be so harsh, we should try to understand Adolf's motives, where he was coming from... Maybe he had a troubled childhood? I'm sure deep inside he was a nice guy and at the time of Poland his judgement was a bit clouded. The Brits should have sat down with him for a tea, and we would have never had WW2.
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- Wynter92
I don't think you can stem the actions of Isis with "traditional" counter-terrorism. Sure, guns and bombs will keep them in check, but that's only treating the symptoms. Yes, Isis is a terrorist organization that purports through Islam, but it's largely just a bunch of punks that feed off the region's impoverished and disenfranchised. Why do you think it's growth is so prevalent in Africa, more so than in the Middle East itself? Isis provides such individuals a "means" to do something about their circumstances. As someone said earlier that we should cut all ties to affected regions. I think this is half-right. I think a large part of Isis' "fuel" is that the some of the involved nationals feeling controlled or "pushed on" by foreign influences (Not just Western). Diplomatically I think regions such as the Middle East should be left to their own devices yet economical ties should be retained. You cannot appeal to the downtrodden if there aren't any.
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- GTP_Stotty
We did... Neville Chamberlain negotiated the Munich Agreement, and Germany immediately invaded Poland.
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Depressing events
I'm not sure if there's a solution to the weekend's event. The guy who committed the act was born in the US, will have been educated within the US system, and will have experienced US culture/society. He's hardly an immigrant that slipped in to the country to commit his atrocity.
For all the chest beating by Trump (and others), how can you really prevent this sort of act? You can't evict every Muslim already living in the US. You could try to make Islam illegal in the US, but other countries have tried to outlaw religions in the past and it never works... it will simply lead to more people taking up the radical cause and ultimately make things worse.
It's a frustrating feeling to be hurt so badly and not to be able to get justice/revenge, but that's the nature of a 'conflict' like this. It's not war against another country or even an organisation, but against a belief.
Every time The West gets embroiled in Middle East politics it comes back to bite them.
Obelisk
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Well...Your logic is terrible, because ISIS is practicing the same type of bull:censored: that Hitler did, which is to murder people because of a specific thing those people have in common. In this case, ISIS has been targeting the Western world, especially the U.S. What Hitler did was target and slaughter over 6 million innocent people because they were Jewish.
To be blunt so you'll understand why everyone is against you, ISIS is trying to commit genocide.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I know you're joking but that actually happened on a good number of occasions. In return a pledge was obtained that, unsurprisingly, he broke.
So the attacks are becoming greater and stronger but we should do less of the things that work?
mister dog
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- Com_Fox5
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I already figured that one out.
What they are doing now, yes we should try to stop them before they do damage however it is concerning me that we might be doing the same amount of damage to stop them so nobody actually wins except for our government.
However if ISIS is stopped, about 10 - 20 Years from when it happens, I would be willing to forgive anyone from ISIS who regrets what occurred and move on from the disaster.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Much of it was in Germany and they make some of the greatest cakes on earth, I doubt it was horrible
McLaren
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McLaren
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When we go out & attack, we're not blindly firing into the first people we see. We do rely on actual information as to where ISIS troops hide & control before attacking. Again, in regards to the damage ISIS has done, we're nowhere close.
These guys kill people just for watching football & smoking. And then kill anyone who gets mad they killed a relative.
I think your concern is misplaced about us doing equal damage. Yeah, we've gotten pretty strict on smoking laws & getting people to stop, but we definitely aren't murdering people for it....
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- Johnnypenso
Obelisk
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I was trying to remember who else he went after...
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- supermanfromazle
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- Eh???
To add to this conversation with my thoughts.
If someone responsible, in whole or in part, for the attacks of September 11th, 2001 came to me and asked for forgiveness, would I forgive them? No. Why? Because I am not the one they should be asking. The people who they need to ask for forgiveness are the families, the friends, the teachers, the students of the people who they helped murder. They need to be asking God for forgiveness. And if they are sentenced to death, they need to accept that that is the the punishment for the acts they committed against humanity. Taking into account that they are, or supposedly are, Muslims we then add the belief of Islam. They committed an act that is so bad that it ranks higher on the list of major sins than even disbelieving in God. They committed murder. The forgiveness is not mine to give.
Similarly, if Hitler were alive and regretted what he did and came to me for forgiveness I would tell him the same thing. The forgiveness is not mine to give. It is down to those who you tortured, the families of those you killed. If they forgive you then that is what you need.
As @Obelisk says, ISIS are committing genocide. In a different way to Hitler yes, but with the same idealogy. Anyone who is not with them and their beliefs is against them. Should they come to me for forgiveness, I cannot grant it. They have to apologise to those they hurt.
Do I care about what happens to ISIS fighters? Only from the standpoint of a human being. Should they stop, then we stop. But if they do not stop, then they must be forcefully stopped from committing the acts they do. My thoughts go out to those people, the innocents, who are trapped in these zones. The innocents who are killed in the ISIS controlled areas by ISIS or by accident in raids by us. The innocents who were killed in France for doing nothing wrong and harming nobody else. The innocents who were killed at the Pulse Club who were hurting noone. Those are the people I am, and we should be, concerned about. ISIS is more political than it is religious in any way. As @McLaren pointed out, they have done nothing but destroy society. That seems to be what they want. We as a collective, progressive world dedicated to having peace between everyone, cannot and must not let this happen. But at the same time, we must not cross the line and forget out morals to fight an immoral enemy, lest we become as bad as them.
If someone responsible, in whole or in part, for the attacks of September 11th, 2001 came to me and asked for forgiveness, would I forgive them? No. Why? Because I am not the one they should be asking. The people who they need to ask for forgiveness are the families, the friends, the teachers, the students of the people who they helped murder. They need to be asking God for forgiveness. And if they are sentenced to death, they need to accept that that is the the punishment for the acts they committed against humanity. Taking into account that they are, or supposedly are, Muslims we then add the belief of Islam. They committed an act that is so bad that it ranks higher on the list of major sins than even disbelieving in God. They committed murder. The forgiveness is not mine to give.
Similarly, if Hitler were alive and regretted what he did and came to me for forgiveness I would tell him the same thing. The forgiveness is not mine to give. It is down to those who you tortured, the families of those you killed. If they forgive you then that is what you need.
As @Obelisk says, ISIS are committing genocide. In a different way to Hitler yes, but with the same idealogy. Anyone who is not with them and their beliefs is against them. Should they come to me for forgiveness, I cannot grant it. They have to apologise to those they hurt.
Do I care about what happens to ISIS fighters? Only from the standpoint of a human being. Should they stop, then we stop. But if they do not stop, then they must be forcefully stopped from committing the acts they do. My thoughts go out to those people, the innocents, who are trapped in these zones. The innocents who are killed in the ISIS controlled areas by ISIS or by accident in raids by us. The innocents who were killed in France for doing nothing wrong and harming nobody else. The innocents who were killed at the Pulse Club who were hurting noone. Those are the people I am, and we should be, concerned about. ISIS is more political than it is religious in any way. As @McLaren pointed out, they have done nothing but destroy society. That seems to be what they want. We as a collective, progressive world dedicated to having peace between everyone, cannot and must not let this happen. But at the same time, we must not cross the line and forget out morals to fight an immoral enemy, lest we become as bad as them.
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