- 626
- Northern Ireland
- GTRP_mirial
Why are you asking this? I think I know where this is going...
50 dead at Orlando club shooting.
- Thread starter Dennisch
- 609 comments
- 26,865 views
Why are you asking this? I think I know where this is going...
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
That was an appalling misjudgement by Canada, one of many sad episodes in the Crown's history and not really relevant here.
Elsewhere; despite all our babbling about ISIS we're told that at this moment there isn't a clear link between ISIS and the gunman.
- 31,670
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Perhaps a sympathiser, with no actual ties.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
- 31,670
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
From your article.
There's no indication that Mateen was in touch with terrorists overseas or that the attack was directed by someone else, a law enforcement officials told NBC News. Nor is there evidence that anyone helped or encouraged him, several officials said.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
An interesting addition but it doesn't add to what we'd just been saying. Your link confirms other Law Enforcement statements that the gunman had no clear link to ISIS other than following online propaganda. There's nothing at this time to say he was ISIS directed, nothing about the attack would have been any different if he'd directed credit to ISIS, Jesus, The Tooth Fairy or anybody else.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
@Dennisch
@TenEightyOne
The guy previously took two trips to Saudi Arabia, and swore allegiance to ISIS the day of the shooting. He was buddy to a Syrian suicide bomber. He was investigated multiple times by the FBI for connections to jihadis. ISIS celebrated and took credit the day after. The crime was committed against the most obvious of infidels to the strictest strain of Islamic fundamentalism. Of course there's clear link to ISIS. That said, it's somewhat seems at this point he belongs to the lone wolf, self-organizing sort of domestic terrorist, and was inspired by ISIS perhaps more than he was recruited and trained by them. IMO, this is all blowback from the decades of war the US has inflicted on the middle east. So, in a sense, it is understandable even if it is not tolerable. Bottom line, he became a soldier in a war against American lives and freedoms. He and his kind need to be stopped before they graduate from assaulting gay nightclubs to assaulting maternity wards.
@TenEightyOne
The guy previously took two trips to Saudi Arabia, and swore allegiance to ISIS the day of the shooting. He was buddy to a Syrian suicide bomber. He was investigated multiple times by the FBI for connections to jihadis. ISIS celebrated and took credit the day after. The crime was committed against the most obvious of infidels to the strictest strain of Islamic fundamentalism. Of course there's clear link to ISIS. That said, it's somewhat seems at this point he belongs to the lone wolf, self-organizing sort of domestic terrorist, and was inspired by ISIS perhaps more than he was recruited and trained by them. IMO, this is all blowback from the decades of war the US has inflicted on the middle east. So, in a sense, it is understandable even if it is not tolerable. Bottom line, he became a soldier in a war against American lives and freedoms. He and his kind need to be stopped before they graduate from assaulting gay nightclubs to assaulting maternity wards.
- 5,398
- Buenos Aires
Do you even The Bible? I''ve read half of it (up to Psalm 100) for sport and I've indeed seen some interesting things that make me thank the world we live in (Catholic in my country, same in America) the rules aren't applied religiously.
For what I care, people are entitled to follow their religion to the letter. It's a "follow it to the letter or don't follow it at all" for me. If don't truly believe in a God until you follow his holy word exactly as it is spoken in the scriptures.
EDIT: The gun debate is a never ending fight. The truth is concessions have to be made from time to time. No solution is the perfect solution, otherwise we would have figured it out a long time ago. Some countries (Argentina, for example) live without kids shooting up their school from time to time (it has only happened once I believe, using his father's reglamentary handgun). The few times we have seen people trying to defend themselves from burglars and the like, people usually end up injuring an innocent third party (or outright killing them, as happened a month or two ago).
I would love to say USA could live like us, but the gun culture is fairly rooted into its society, and removing guns is not a guarantee of a better world either. We just have to live with what's more comfortable for us, and thank our country if its culture matches our perspective (and tirelessly complain if it doesn't).
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- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
Yes, that's the point. An ideological one-way relationship is not the same as an ISIS funded/organised killing. A lone wolf could attribute their crime to any organisation she/he likes.
Origins of anti-Western jihad are for another place on another day.
What? Killings in a gay club are low-tier compared to maternity wards?
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
You said it. Motherhood, (life and family) apple pie (industry, commerce, prosperity and freedom) and the flag (national unity) are our highest values at the beginning and at the end of the day. Everything else ranks lower in accordance to its superfluity and decadence. Even so, once enshrined in law and in culture our values are supposed to form an unassailable whole. You attack us, we take your head.
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- 5,897
- Canada
I was pointing to a more simple point that we shouldn't judge without at least a bit of due process, though I understand where this comparison may fall short. 👍
- 4,464
- Azle, TX
- supermanfromazle
- SanjiHimura
9/11-style planned attacks on US soil are never going to happen again, let's face it. Most terror attacks are going to be lone-wolf in nature, and most analysts and terrorists know it. Besides, through our welfare state, we (the western nations) fund their operations for them to make their attacks.
Let's open the door a bit and ask how did the LA attacker managed to get from Indiana ((Source) [Note: the Indiana bit was on the car's license plate], to Los Angeles with tannerite, a primary ingredient in pipe bombs?
Here is more for a possible connection to terror:
Orlando shooter was enrolled in a Islamic seminary run by an ex-con who was known to recruit terrorists, reports say.
Father of Orlando shooter posts anti-gay message the day after shooting.
Orlando terror shooter's apartment broken into when police arrive to search.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
You have no way of knowing that, absolutely zero.
9/11 was funded by a Saudi millionaire, y'all sure have good welfare.
I wonder if somehow he drove the car? Unless ISIS used a stolen helicopter to winch his car up GTA-stylee.
If true then that's an important clue to one of the sources of the gunman's radicalisation. I don't think anyone doubts the possibility that this was the act of an insanse radical though.
That's a bit of a stretch; even in your link the quote says that God should judge, not people. You have to twist it a bit to make it "anti-gay".
The daylight timing of that all seems weird, as far as I recall even as the incident was being announced on the news we were told that bomb officers were searching his flat. Have Blaze somehow got hold of the wrong of the stick? Incredible, I know...
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- Southern Louisiana
- GTP_Kent
Pretty sure Clinton thought the same thing after the '93 terrorist attack on the WTC. I'm guessing you were just a kid at the time and that's why you don't remember a massive bomb being set off in the same building they targeted 8 years later.
But please, go on and tell us more about what you know of their plans.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
Shame nobody is talking about the inherent dangers of clubbing/dance clubs..Anyhow this just another example why I never go clubs(and have turned down invitations) and have even warned my family members who might frequent places like this. Like I said earlier, thank God my niece don't frequent places like these.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,307
- United States
- 3,038
- Massachusetts
- GBO-Possum
Not quite correct. Australia is one example. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/08/02/did-gun-control-work-in-australia/
EDIT: Really sad that an American has been persuaded to behave this way by teachings such as this - https://islamqa.info/en/38622
- 17,215
- United Kingdom
It is a little bit. Most clubs are dark, noisy, full of people that have probably had a few drinks, limited and blockable exits. You could do a lot of damage in a club before the majority has realised.
CodeRedR51
Premium
- 55,307
- United States
Sports stadiums, concert hauls, theaters, etc.
- 17,215
- United Kingdom
Venues that are designed with a central focal point for peoples attention. In a club, you're probably not paying much attention to anything outside of the people adjacent to you. There's also no natural obstacles to movement, such as seats in a stadium might offer.
- 1,382
- Minnesota
- SQE_HAZ3L
I feel like that's maybe not the point here. The point is that a gunman opened fire at a gay/queer club at a night when there were trans and gender non-conforming people of hispanic descent performing. Clubs in and of themselves aren't any more dangerous than other activities you can do with friends. The fact that there were people killed in cold blood due to who they were is what the focus and talk is about not why clubs may or may not be dangerous.
- 904
- orlando,FL,USA
You're right but the problem with night clubs is fact they tend to attract the wrong group of individuals e.g. gangs to mention the frequent drug and typical violence that occurs.
- 1,382
- Minnesota
- SQE_HAZ3L
I'm sorry, but what clubs have you been going to? Why should gang members not be allowed to go to a club? As long as they aren't there to make trouble they have as much right to be there as I do. And anyway, if there is any trouble several large security members as well as half the people in the club would be pulling them apart because we are there to enjoy ourselves and not be stupid. If you have an issues with someone else there, you wait until after you leave. Drugs, ehh, those are a bit more realistic of an issue, but even those are rarely to never seen because once again, security is always around and they will get you even in the crazy lights.
Sources: Myself as well as friend's experiences at clubs
