A.I. way too aggressive

  • Thread starter capt_slow
  • 66 comments
  • 4,869 views
I haven’t noticed any aggressive behaviour. Perhaps it depends on the type of cars they are using, or their skill level?

Here’s an example of how it looks at my end:

 
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imChris
The AI at Sardegna 800 will always try to swerve into you, spin you out through a PIT maneuver, or brake check you.
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I know. I've done the race god knows how many times. :D

They don't try to pit manoeuvre you intentionally, as they're on rails.obliviousky/ignorantly following their set course regardless of you.

Good thing is it's extremely easy to avoid ie never go down right side of them before pit lane on the straight.
 
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JK_GT
Yup. After the last update I thought that it's pretty cool that they spiced up the AI a bit, but after a week long grinding session on Le Mans I can only agree... It got worse.
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Specially Healy... At least for me
 
capt_slow
Oh it's very predictable ot is 100% going to try and spin you out ever time you pass a car. Black flag like behavior is not realistic.
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I don't get that same feeling of predictability when passing AI. Some try to spin me , some don't. Who knows other than the devs, but it may depend on when /where and how you are passing. It almost feels like there's a bit of SOPHY AI algorithm in the base AI now.
I did read the other day that Sony AI is working on a new AI platform that leverages the pixels on screen as input data to the AI modelling. Just like a player uses its eyes' input data to make output determinations on the controller.
So maybe SOPHY AI will become the "basic" AI with the new one being introduced into the game gradually through updates when it becomes more polished like SOPHY today.
 
Mafio
This maybe a silly question to everyone here, but are we passing correctly or are we just expecting for the AI to get out of the way mid-apex?
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Most of the time i get spun by the AI I find that the AI has a "set driving line" and they are programmed to follow/stay on that line and I was in their way as I crossed too close in a pass as they followed their line that they just stayed on it and pushed me aside, usually a pit maneuver, and puts me in a spin. I now give the AI plenty of room when passing.
 
capt_slow
Has anyone else noticed how the A.I. seems to get worse every day. For me, it is constantly trying to spin me out now, brake checks me in the middle of a straight away, pushes me off track into penalties constantly, and more. I feel like I can't race on the same track as the a.i. anymore. It's an absolute nightmare now.
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Hahaha been racing on GT3 Cup mission at the Lake Maggiore Circuit and i had a tough time to beat the AI 😂😂😂😂, they hit you on the back to make you spin. i took 1 week to be able to beat it.

just be agressive too... play the same game. Lambo its a great car for it, better tyre management and speed, aceleration and grip

Aero2000
Yeah, At the beginning of the game's life I thought the AI was relatively good, but now it's like they (the AI) don't know I'm on the track at all. They push me out off the track, perform pit maneuvers, or drive right into me when I brake or have spun around. Then they continue as if nothing has happened . At the beginning, they at least tried to drive around me if I was stationary on the track after an accident, but as I said, they only drive right into me now
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its does on purpose
 
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Edcosta_29
they hit you on the back to make you spin.
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Not a deliberate action, just the AI badly programmed to take 2 corners.
And when you know this will always happen, then it is easy to avoid and can also be abused to increase your lead.
Nothing to do with the AI driving aggressively and has always been this way on the track.

And that also is the same for all other tracks: just bad coding for their choice of lines, or being blind to your presence in specific cases.
 
Mafio
Soooo you guys are NOT passing in the proper passing zones??
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No it's specifically when you are performing a "correct" overtake that the AI will try to spin you. Idk why this is even a discussion, the fact that this happens is a self-evident truth...
 
Meythia
Not a deliberate action, just the AI badly programmed to take 2 corners.
And when you know this will always happen, then it is easy to avoid and can also be abused to increase your lead.
Nothing to do with the AI driving aggressively and has always been this way on the track.

And that also is the same for all other tracks: just bad coding for their choice of lines, or being blind to your presence in specific cases.
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I admit to using the AI's... well, AI to mess with them sometimes.
 
imChris
No it's specifically when you are performing a "correct" overtake that the AI will try to spin you. Idk why this is even a discussion, the fact that this happens is a self-evident truth...
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Edit2:
If the AI spins you after your overtake, you simply were too overconfident in your speed, which means either be faster or read the situation better, you should learn when it is possible and when you better step back.
---

The AI just follows 2 rules and 2 lines.
Rule 1: no one to overtake - racing line
Rule 2: some other car to overtake - inner line

Edit: example, and you see there is no ramming intention.
I trigger rule 2 by reducing my speed, so AI wants to take inner line and it will NEVER work at that corner (maybe for some of the cars, but not the competitive fast ones)


And just at some corners this inner line just doesnt fit.
Maybe PD has made a change of physics and it did work when they setup these lines.
Maybe the line was created with a different car in mind and not carefully removed from the setup.
Whatever is the case, the single thing that factually is not true is the intention of the AI to ram a player - because the AI cant make that decision.

Sophy has more rules, but it basically does the same.
 
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I don't care that the AI is aggressive.

What bothers me is that the AI seemingly operates under diff laws of physics. The AI can easily spin you like a top but an AI driven VW Beetle has F1 levels of grip/downforce lol.
 
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sonnyboychris
I don't care that the AI is aggressive.

What bothers me is that the AI seemingly operates under a diff law of physics. The AI can easily spin you like a top but an AI driven VW Beetle has F1 levels of grip/downforce lol.
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I would confidently bet that it's more that the AI responds better by getting off the gas or reducing steering input to increase stability and grip. Watch the replays, the AI are merely much better to react optimally and nearly instantly, where people tend to do the worst possible responses in bad situations.
 
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xDriver69x
I would confidently bet that it's more that the AI responds better by getting off the gas or reducing steering input to increase stability and grip. Watch the replays, the AI are merely much better to react optimally and nearly instantly, where people tend to do the worst possible responses in bad situations.
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Try to pit maneuver the AI, you’ll see what I mean.
 
imChris
I've been playing racing games since the SNES days and GT7 has without a doubt the worst AI drivers of any game I've encountered, even Need for Speed does it better. Surely it can't be that hard to program AI to stick to the racing line and not brake on exit of corners etc. It's quite astonishing considering how well made the rest of the game is
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Daytona USA was miles further down the toilet. At least they'd ghost so you could pass through them.
 
So, reading through this golden thread, I have to ask (as always) what are people expecting from the AI? As in, what is the metric being used to measure against in terms of quality?

The AI is surprisingly more like people than many care to believe. The AI is better than mid DR B drivers and lower (sorry, but we all know it's true)
 
Voodoovaj
So, reading through this golden thread, I have to ask (as always) what are people expecting from the AI? As in, what is the metric being used to measure against in terms of quality?
Click to expand...
In reverse order:

What is the metric being used to measure the A.I.? No metric. I make a quality assessment compared to the A.I. I have encountered in other racing games, and other real people I have raced against online, and lastly I make a judgement on how well it behaves like I'd expect a human to (at least a human who is racing, not playing bumper cars).

And what am I expecting from the A.I. in Gran Turismo 7? Not much. Gran Turismo's A.I. is always below par. In GT4 the Artificial Idiots used to brake too late and crash almost every lap at the New York circuit. They'd randomly spin out and crash at Le Mans and after The Corkscrew at Laguna Seca. Apart from that, the occasional bogus corners they had at some tracks which made them ridiculously easy to pass, and their weird habit of braking right at the exit of corners sometimes (they still do this) the AI in GT4 at some events and on some tracks was actually quite enjoyable to race against. The VX220 challenge in particular comes to mind.

Anyway it's a PD tradition that the artificial drivers should be a bit dumb, have some weird quirks which make sure you never fall under the illusion that they resemble human racers, and just generally not be very good compared to other games. GT7 continues the tradition.
 
I never thought of GT7's AI as aggressive. What looks like aggression is just them always following their line. It mostly doesn't really care about your existance on track, especially if you are not in front.
 
Voodoovaj
So, reading through this golden thread, I have to ask (as always) what are people expecting from the AI? As in, what is the metric being used to measure against in terms of quality?

The AI is surprisingly more like people than many care to believe. The AI is better than mid DR B drivers and lower (sorry, but we all know it's true)
Click to expand...
I'd even go so far and say that the A.I in GT7 is way better than 99% of any online players participating in this game.
To assure you that I'm not trolling let me tell you the following.
I play this game franchise since day1.
I am playing GT7 since Day1.
Everyday, literally Everyday, I'm hosting Public Open Lobbies which I run for several hours throughout the day.
From early in the morning all the way to midnight most of the time.

Approximately 1000km at least per day which I'm actively driving on track with all sorts of players.
The clumsy ones, the average Joes', the try hards and of course the top split drivers across all regions.
European mostly but also many ones from USA, sometimes Japan and South America.
On the other hand, I spent lots and lots of time building Custom Races and setting up the A.I to get the most thrilling and exciting races one can only wish for.
I was the first one who discovered how to set up the Bots in Custom Races while everyone else had already given up.
After my discoveries I was the first one to post it in the Custom Race Thread and it was literally an eye opener for everyone.
And to be honest and this is absolutely my honest opinion, I rarely get as good races as I'd get if i had been driving against GT7 s' A.I Bots.
So what's the reason it is the way it is?!
It's so so simple.
Respect.
The A.I has the Mindset how real racing should be like.
Very technical and very respectful.
I could write a whole Article about all of its skills and how extremely disciplined they behave.
It's scary.
But at the end of the day, I don't really care if anyone believes me or not.
All I'm saying is that the A.I Bots are by far the best participants to share the track with me, aside a very very very very small fraction I came across in public lobbies. Maybe 1 or 2 Players.

Not to mention the absolute farce which represents Daily Races or the GTWS.
These Events have absolutely NOTHING to do with how real racing works.
And I think THIS is the main reason why many people believe the A.I isn't good.
I have countless Replays which prove how good the racing CAN be, IF treated with respect and race craft.
Something which unfortunately 99% of online players as hard as it may sound just simply don't have.
So yeah, this is my 2cents on GT7s' A.I

Racing is an Art.
It's dedication.
It's patience.
It's discipline.
It's passion.
But most of all...it's respect.
Respecting yourself and integrity.
That's what GT7s' A.I stands for.

Of course it has its quirks occasionally.
No doubt about it.
No Algorithm is flawless.
But PD did an outstanding job integrating these attributes to the A.I.

So yeah all of you non believers and TT Heroes... You are all invited to join my public lobby which I'm hosting every day.
It's always called the same:
GT Fair Play // Track Rotation // Clean Drivers Only
I have also many many videos uploaded how Racing against the Ai looks like.
You'll be shocked.
Not a single contact.
No punts.
No ramming.
No brake checking.
Side by side driving multiple corners.
Clean, respectful and trustworthy racing.
So it's up to you now to convince yourself I'm telling the truth.
The facts are here, it's proven.
And I prove it everyday in my open lobbies.
Racing at its finest. 😉
 
kiseca
In reverse order:

... and other real people I have raced against online, and lastly I make a judgement on how well it behaves like I'd expect a human to (at least a human who is racing, not playing bumper cars).
Click to expand...
Have you played Sport Mode?

It's funny, because (not saying you do this) but I often read about how bad the AI is and that it isn't like a person. The SP fans want it to be more like a real person. So I say something along the lines of "go play the real people in Sport Mode", and the response is something along the lines of "No way, those people can't drive and it's frustrating"...but that's what real people are like... 🤔

The AI cannot be all things to all people. It's a game, and it's been set up so the average player can win the events with an average car.

I have no expectation that the AI will be like a person, because racing people is difficult, and I am quite content with it.

PirovacBoy
I'd even go so far and say that the A.I in GT7 is way better than 99% of any online players participating in this game.
To assure you that I'm not trolling let me tell you the following.
I play this game franchise since day1.
I am playing GT7 since Day1.
Everyday, literally Everyday, I'm hosting Public Open Lobbies which I run for several hours throughout the day.
From early in the morning all the way to midnight most of the time.

Approximately 1000km at least per day which I'm actively driving on track with all sorts of players.
The clumsy ones, the average Joes', the try hards and of course the top split drivers across all regions.
European mostly but also many ones from USA, sometimes Japan and South America.
On the other hand, I spent lots and lots of time building Custom Races and setting up the A.I to get the most thrilling and exciting races one can only wish for.
I was the first one who discovered how to set up the Bots in Custom Races while everyone else had already given up.
After my discoveries I was the first one to post it in the Custom Race Thread and it was literally an eye opener for everyone.
And to be honest and this is absolutely my honest opinion, I rarely get as good races as I'd get if i had been driving against GT7 s' A.I Bots.
So what's the reason it is the way it is?!
It's so so simple.
Respect.
The A.I has the Mindset how real racing should be like.
Very technical and very respectful.
I could write a whole Article about all of its skills and how extremely disciplined they behave.
It's scary.
But at the end of the day, I don't really care if anyone believes me or not.
All I'm saying is that the A.I Bots are by far the best participants to share the track with me, aside a very very very very small fraction I came across in public lobbies. Maybe 1 or 2 Players.

Not to mention the absolute farce which represents Daily Races or the GTWS.
These Events have absolutely NOTHING to do with how real racing works.
And I think THIS is the main reason why many people believe the A.I isn't good.
I have countless Replays which prove how good the racing CAN be, IF treated with respect and race craft.
Something which unfortunately 99% of online players as hard as it may sound just simply don't have.
So yeah, this is my 2cents on GT7s' A.I

Racing is an Art.
It's dedication.
It's patience.
It's discipline.
It's passion.
But most of all...it's respect.
Respecting yourself and integrity.
That's what GT7s' A.I stands for.

Of course it has its quirks occasionally.
No doubt about it.
No Algorithm is flawless.
But PD did an outstanding job integrating these attributes to the A.I.

So yeah all of you non believers and TT Heroes... You are all invited to join my public lobby which I'm hosting every day.
It's always called the same:
GT Fair Play // Track Rotation // Clean Drivers Only
I have also many many videos uploaded how Racing against the Ai looks like.
You'll be shocked.
Not a single contact.
No punts.
No ramming.
No brake checking.
Side by side driving multiple corners.
Clean, respectful and trustworthy racing.
So it's up to you now to convince yourself I'm telling the truth.
The facts are here, it's proven.
And I prove it everyday in my open lobbies.
Racing at its finest. 😉
Click to expand...
I agree with all that.
 
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Yes, the AI does crazy things from time to time. It's already happened, at the slightest touch, I go straight to the barrier. Perhaps the AI hadn't seen the sportsmanship rules videos, mandatory for everyone who wants to use Sport mode (daily races). In GT the AI has 3 difficulty levels, easy, medium and difficult. In missions, the AI is set to a difficult level, and it even looks like it has Sophy's genes. The Gr. 3 race with the Jaguar in Australia was the one I had to repeat the most. Maybe they became more aggressive, especially until they were overtaken, and after that, it seemed like they even slowed down. The AI that I found most difficult was in the game PCars (a very hard level is for crazy people) and Asseto Corsa. In the GT, if you make them stop behind you, in 2, 3 seconds, they will reverse, overtake and go away. In AC, they stop but constantly pushing our car and in 10 seconds (puff) they disappear from the race. In PCars, I don't think you can even stop them, because they are constantly trying to overtake. Sophy I never tested it because the PS4 doesn't use it.
 
PirovacBoy
I was the first one who discovered how to set up the Bots in Custom Races while everyone else had already given up.
After my discoveries I was the first one to post it in the Custom Race Thread and it was literally an eye opener for everyone.
And to be honest and this is absolutely my honest opinion, I rarely get as good races as I'd get if i had been driving against GT7 s' A.I Bots.
Click to expand...
A link to such a post, how to set up a custom race would be cool.
 
Voodoovaj
Have you played Sport Mode?

It's funny, because (not saying you do this) but I often read about how bad the AI is and that it isn't like a person. The SP fans want it to be more like a real person. So I say something along the lines of "go play the real people in Sport Mode", and the response is something along the lines of "No way, those people can't drive and it's frustrating"...but that's what real people are like... 🤔

The AI cannot be all things to all people. It's a game, and it's been set up so the average player can win the events with an average car.

I have no expectation that the AI will be like a person, because racing people is difficult, and I am quite content with it.


I agree with all that.
Click to expand...
What are SP fans?

I have not experienced Sport Mode racing.

As I said in my post that you quoted, I compare it to humans who are racing, not to humans playing bumper cars. my online experience is that I raced in a league for a couple of years on GT5 and 6 (6 seasons in all). It wasn't an open lobby and I have never raced in an open lobby. New joiners to the league never had etiquette problems and picked up the rules and expectations quickly. Drivers tried not to hit eachother and if we did screw up and take someone off the circuit, we'd stop and wait for them to recover and then rejoin behind them. If you messed up someone else's race, you messed your own race up too. None of these drivers did anything that the AI in GT7 does, that often seems show a complete lack of awareness to the presence of a human driver and just driving into them while they'd be completely visible and avoidable.

Regarding Sport Mode and its stories of woe, you'll get the same problem if you go to actual racing available to everyone for little investment, i.e. indoor karting. If you join or form a league, you'll have a group of racers who drive with respect for others in the race and who soon gain enough experience to be similar pace and quality. If you just turn up and race against random people just having a fun day out, you'll be racing against people who are slow, crash randomly, swerve around in front of you to block overtakes and are happy to sideswipe you into the tyres if you dare try pass them.

When comparing AI to humans, I'm talking about humans who race and display a racing etiquette, of which the one of the bottom line principles is try to avoid causing crashes. At least in GT5 and 6, finding humans who race to this standard was an easy enough task and as far as I can tell, racing leagues still do exist. I expect the AI to show this basic racing etiquette. The AI in some other games manages to do so. In GT7, it doesn't. The AI will stick to its preferred line first even if my car is in the way, and when it makes contact, instead of turning away, it just turns harder into me as though it's trying to overcome some mysterious force (my car) that is stopping it from moving on to its line.
 
imChris
I've been playing racing games since the SNES days and GT7 has without a doubt the worst AI drivers of any game I've encountered, even Need for Speed does it better. Surely it can't be that hard to program AI to stick to the racing line and not brake on exit of corners etc. It's quite astonishing considering how well made the rest of the game is
Click to expand...
It's so bad that by todays programming standards it feels almost intentional.
 

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