A-spec Expert Level European Hot Hatch Race: Circuito de Madrid / Reverse

[UltimateLurker]

flat floor maybe?
just a wild guess but I remember it roughly added 30PP on other cars...

Nice avatar

 

[UltimateLurker]

Maybe a turbo kit or some other power upgrade then? Or weight reduction? There must be a reason the '11 can reach 580 pp and the 111R can't go higher than 552.

I have money to burn, so I'll add everything but the kitchen sink to them both tonight.

 

[breyzipp]

Haha ok, I'm starting to get really curious now as well. Maybe that '11 can even go higher since the maximum pp for the event was 580. But IIRC I think +/- 580 was about as high as it could get though.

That event was only a month ago but it was at a time when I always bought ALL upgrades for a car and then switched off power upgrades or used the power limiter to achieve a certain pp. And I was driving with AT and all assists on as well. Fast forward to today I now look at it completely different, in fact I now despise fully upgrading a car like I used to do since it completely destroys the soul of the car. Now I prefer to drive bone stock cars with authentic shifting (MT clutch, MT seq or AT depending on how the car in reality is - I just check this from the cockpit camera) and all assists off except ABS=1. I drive a lot worse now but it's a lot more fun! It was in fact the difference between the classic GT40's racing exhaust noise and the lovely standard exhaust (or semi racing exhaust) sound which made me realise blindly upgrading a car isn't always the best thing to do. Ooh and I learned something about the sound of a sport exhaust on that car as well: 👎

Anyways that event also gave me a knee injury which I'm recovering from now so for the time being I drive with assists on again but only using the G27's steering wheel itself to drive, no pedals. So accelleration is on the red buttons of the wheel and braking on both sequential shifters (and AT). It has its disadvantages for sure but for now... it'll have to do, I guess I'm now somewhere in between wheel users and DS3 users. Looking forward to driving normal again without assists though.

 

[breyzipp]

Hmm this is odd, I just saw that a stock '11 comes at 388 pp while a stock 111R comes at 440 pp. And when I quickly look through all available weight reductions and power upgrades they seem the same for both cars.

Does this mean that a particular upgrade like for example engine stage 3 has more effect or comes at a higher pp cost for the '11 than for the 111R?

So...
388 pp => 580 pp for the '11
440 pp => 552 pp for the 111R
... when for both cars the same upgrades are available.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Exactly.

 

[DisabledRacer]

Hi there D.R.
I just bought a Berlinetta and tried it stock but kept losing the back end out of corners. What did you use for a tune?? My best so far with this car is a fourth??
Cheers, Pete

I pretty much do quick tunes on cars before moving onto the next one to try. I generally like low ride heights, low spring values, low damper values and lower brake balance values with a lot of cars having zero as a rear brake balance. Not sure what that means about my driving style? I also use a DFGT wheel.

This is what I used for the Berlinette R/S Coupe. Not a professional tune by any means...Just a quick tune to get a feel for how fast a car is for my driving style.

239 HP, 900 KG. Weight distribution - 49/51. Oil change & custom wheels 1 inch up.

ABS - 1
TC - 1

ride-height - 85/80
springs - 4.25/5.20
dampers compression - 1/1
dampers extension - 1/1
anti-roll bars - 3/3
camber - 0/0
toe - 0.02/0.12

Brake balance - 2/1

Drivetrain
Torque - 34
Acceleration - 5
Braking - 7

Power 96.1%
Stage 1
Sports computer
Sports exhaust
Isometric manifold
Catalytic sports
Intake tuning
Turbo - normal

Body
Custom "small" wing - (height: -7 width: -3)
downforce - 20
Ballast - 70kg
Ballast postition: -50
Stage 3 weight reduction
Carbon hood
Window weight reduction


Transmission
Not sure what I did to come up with my numbers? Most likely auto-set at 137 MPH is as good as what I quickly tried?

 

[DisabledRacer]

Decided to give four more cars a quick tune a few races to see what they can do.

Lotus Elise Type 72 - 8:41.274 (Easy 8:30's w a good tune)
Lambo Miura P400 - 8:42.375 (Can go faster with a good tune)
Lancia Stratos - 8:48.268 (touchy car! with a good tune and driver I think 8:30's is possible)
Renault Clio V6 24V - 8:49.564 (Don't like the handling of the car... But fast!)

 

[ONevermind]

The '00 Vw beetle Rsi turned out to be a fun one after tuning

 

[mustangxr]

I pretty much do quick tunes on cars before moving onto the next one to try. I generally like low ride heights, low spring values, low damper values and lower brake balance values with a lot of cars having zero as a rear brake balance. Not sure what that means about my driving style? I also use a DFGT wheel.

This is what I used for the Berlinette R/S Coupe. Not a professional tune by any means...Just a quick tune to get a feel for how fast a car is for my driving style.

239 HP, 900 KG. Weight distribution - 49/51. Oil change & custom wheels 1 inch up.

ABS - 1
TC - 1

ride-height - 85/80
springs - 4.25/5.20
dampers compression - 1/1
dampers extension - 1/1
anti-roll bars - 3/3
camber - 0/0
toe - 0.02/0.12

Brake balance - 2/1

Drivetrain
Torque - 34
Acceleration - 5
Braking - 7

Power 96.1%
Stage 1
Sports computer
Sports exhaust
Isometric manifold
Catalytic sports
Intake tuning
Turbo - normal

Body
Custom "small" wing - (height: -7 width: -3)
downforce - 20
Ballast - 70kg
Ballast postition: -50
Stage 3 weight reduction
Carbon hood
Window weight reduction


Transmission
Not sure what I did to come up with my numbers? Most likely auto-set at 137 MPH is as good as what I quickly tried?

Thanks very much D.R., very much appreciated by this Geezer.
Cheers, Pete,
Oh, I drive with a Logitec G-27 setup using 0-8-10 settings in the game and the wheel rotation set at 450 degrees on the unit.
P.S. Tried the Miura, an easy win using a Praiano Tune, it is a lovely car and sounds good too.

 

[Pizzicato65]

Ah, I had no idea. But flat floors can be added to either, so the difference will still only be 8PP between them.

I will have to double check, but I'm fairly certain the '04 does not have the flat floor available. After discovering the speed discrepancies between the two I decided to add a flat floor to the '11 to see how it performed in this event, which ended terribly, of course (FF only seems to help with high-speed corners). So I decided to try it with the 111R '04 but the option for the flat floor was unavailable.

I think... Again, I'll have to check. It could have been a different premium Elise, the '96 maybe, and I'm just confusing them.

 

[Xposed2Play]

Well, no one has mentioned they won it with an XKE, so here goes (did this awhile back):


And now that the tranny glitch is in place I'm not bringing garage cars out to play. But it so happened that when the update happened my "current car" was the Spitfire, with Praiano's 400 PP tune, whose tranny tune tune didn't require resetting the final gear. So I took it to this seasonal, adding a mid-range turbo to get up to speed. After many attempts and a couple grid changes, I was able to control that little honey FTW.



I know my lap times are laughable compared to most of y'all, but for me, getting to the top of the pack with that car sure felt like an accomplishment!

 

[lilcat89]

To show that I am trying hard to win the: "I have no life award" Here are 14 more cars that I haven't previously posted, that I have won with.... All cars had basic and simple tunes and are easily capable of faster times.

Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87 - 8:48.748
Lotus Esprit V8 GT'87 - 8:47.499
Lotus Elise 111S '03 - 8:39.567
MG MGF '97 - 8:46.241
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65 - 8:57.541
Cizeta V16T '94 - 9:10.878
Lotus Carlton '90 9:03.087
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Coupe '00 - 9:02.044
Alpine A310 1600VE '73 - 9:04.520
Lotus Evora '09 - 8:48.479
Renault 5 Turbo - 8:55.758
Peugeot RCZ - 9:10.628
Ferrari F40 - 8:56.406
BMW Z4 '03 - 8:52.637

Only one car did I try that I could NOT win with..... The Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99.

You should try the TVR V8S. I won with a stock one. It was pretty good. What was the tune for the Z4 '03? I have tried to win with it for about a week, and still need to find a second and a half per lap. Finally got it done with my trusty Z4 M Coupe detuned to 450. It's a fun combo actually.

 

[steve nfs]

Still couldn't win with the Aston Martin Vantage '99. Bronze, bronze, bronze. Maybe steering could win it. But from my view, the leader & second car is very close ! Silver could be very satisfied

 

[DisabledRacer]

The Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99 can win... Providing it gets a really, really, slow field.

 

[DisabledRacer]

You should try the TVR V8S. I won with a stock one. It was pretty good. What was the tune for the Z4 '03? I have tried to win with it for about a week, and still need to find a second and a half per lap. Finally got it done with my trusty Z4 M Coupe detuned to 450. It's a fun combo actually.

I do believe I won with the TVR V8S. Its hard to remember which cars I've won with. That's what happens when you have no life, get old and senile, and try 30-40 different cars for each seasonal!

As for the tune for the Z4. I used my own... Just a quick tune... Nothing special. If you still want it, let me know and I will post it.

 

[DisabledRacer]

Tried out three more cars today. Hopefully my last three!

Mercedes-Benz SLK 230 Kompressor '98 - 8:47.646 (Can easily go faster than my time with a good tune)
Maserati Gran Turismo S '08 - 8:49.721
RUF CTR Yellow Bird '87 - 8:48.494 (Thought it would be faster...probably my driving and tune is at fault!)

 

[MTM79]

It's not the fastest car or the easiest car to drive. But it is fast enough and it sure was a blast to drive on this track. It was the first car that made me smile through the entire race. I recommend to give it a shot.

 

[lilcat89]

As for the tune for the Z4. I used my own... Just a quick tune... Nothing special. If you still want it, let me know and I will post it.

I would love to try it. I had developed a very basic tune on mine and still was a second per lap slower than I needed to be. I actually found that the ratios from an X3 SAV and the diff ratio from an E36 316i makes a great short ratio trans for the circuit.

 

[steve nfs]

The Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99 can win... Providing it gets a really, really, slow field.

He he he. . I don't have that luck. Still Silver man !

 

[DisabledRacer]

I would love to try it. I had developed a very basic tune on mine and still was a second per lap slower than I needed to be. I actually found that the ratios from an X3 SAV and the diff ratio from an E36 316i makes a great short ratio trans for the circuit.

Here you go. Nothing special... Just something I came up with in a few minutes that somehow works for my driving style.

Quick tuned using DFGT wheel.
ABS - 1
TC - 1

450 PP
261 HP
1200 kg
F/R distribution - 51/49


Ride height - 78/90
Spring rate - 2.92/4.70
Dampers Compression - 1/1
Dampers Extension - 1/1
Anti-roll bars - 3/3
Camber - 0/0
Toe Angle - 0/0

Brake Balance - 3/2

Transmission - Auto Set 137 MPH.

Drivetrain

Torque - 5
Acceleration - 5
Braking - 16

Power - 97.6% (oil change first)
Sports exhaust & Intake tuning
Everything else standard

Body

Stage 3
Carbon hood
Window weight reduction
Ballast - 83kg
Ballast position - 50

 

[steve nfs]

Anybody tried the BMW 2002 Turbo '73 ? Very fun and challenging using old 'famous' cars.

 

[MTM79]

Lancia Stratos - 8:48.268 (touchy car! with a good tune and driver I think 8:30's is possible)

Got 8:39 on first try with only tune (in addition to adding all parts available) being ballast for 50:50 weight distribution. And with careless driving. I think this car can go way below 8:30 with a proper tune and a pro driver.

 

[croozer_63]

Tried and won with heaps of different cars, most already mentioned here in previous posts. I found the Opel turbo speedster to be the fastest yet. Anyone looking for a super cool, fun ride, this car has it in spades.

 

[breyzipp]

I have money to burn, so I'll add everything but the kitchen sink to them both tonight.

Haven't seen you post any feedback about this so I bought all upgrades except the kitchen sink for my own copys of Elises (keeping a stock version in my garage as well). This is how fully upgraded Elises look like :

Spoiler: Elise '11

Spoiler: Elise 111R

So if you are not limited by pp I think the overall stats of the '11 model are better. I also did notice that the '11 model can have the flat floor, the 111R not. So handling is probably better as well in corners which explains why I got such a significant better time with the '11 than the 111R at that 580 pp autumn ring reverse event.

That dip in the 111R's torque/BHP curve looks weird as well while the '11R has a much smoother one.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Haven't seen you post any feedback about this so I bought all upgrades...if you are not limited by pp I think the overall stats of the '11 model are better. I also did notice that the '11 model can have the flat floor, the 111R not. So handling is probably better as well in corners which explains why I got such a significant better time with the '11 than the 111R at that 580 pp autumn ring reverse event. That dip in the 111R's torque/BHP curve looks weird as well while the '11R has a much smoother one.

My first goal was to find out if there was something special about the '11, and with all specs nearly identical I found that there isn't, it's literally the same car, handles the same way, and produces the same times. However, I didn't add the flat floors, did the oil change first, and by your numbers must have missed something! I'm now pretty excited to get these cars on the same track, with the same trans numbers, to see just how much of a gap I can get with the '11! Come on PD, fix that trans bug!!!

 

[breyzipp]

I added the steel roof (under other options) with the '11 as well but i think that one is just cosmetic since i dont think i bought it before. Oil change and improved rigidity for both cars as well but only oil should add pp.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Steel roof? You mean hard-top? Do they call it steel??

 

[breyzipp]

Steel roof? You mean hard-top? Do they call it steel??

Uhmm default the roof is black, some sort of fabric I suppose. You can upgrade it to body colour, I thought it's made of steel in that case but yeah hardtop is probably a better description.

 

[DisabledRacer]

Got 8:39 on first try with only tune (in addition to adding all parts available) being ballast for 50:50 weight distribution. And with careless driving. I think this car can go way below 8:30 with a proper tune and a pro driver.

Nice time with the Stratos. 👍
Interesting car. My quick tune initially yielded times in the middle 8:40's, then I figured a few tweaks would result around 8:30's, but I got slower! Definitely a high risk, high reward car that needs a good tune and driver to shine.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Uhmm default the roof is black, some sort of fabric I suppose. You can upgrade it to body colour, I thought it's made of steel in that case but yeah hardtop is probably a better description.

Ah, yes, the default roof is just fabric on the Elise. The hard-top is fiberglass, like the rest of the body . Adding the fiberglass roof would make the car slightly more rigid in real life. Not as much as most cars, the Lotus is very rigid with the top out, having been designed for it, but in a racing circumstance there would definitely be less body flex with the hard top. It's one of the reasons that all Exige cars have the roof, and the covered back window.

On Hallowed Ground. by VisualEchos, on Flickr