A-spec Expert Level European Hot Hatch Race: Circuito de Madrid / Reverse

[skeagracing]

With an event like this, I've taken several cars that had to be de-tuned by lowering the Power Limiter %. With some cars I've had to lower that slider substantially. This tends to make the car reach it's maximum HP very early in the RPM range and stay constant til red line. Do you guys still tend to rev each gear to red line or do you short shift to take advantage of the increased torque that is usually available in the lower-to-mid RPM ranges? Either way you're usually still at the same exact HP level.

Red line all the time and forever is the key to all this and nothing else for me!! In real life and in GT6. All my video will show this time and time again. In my experience short sifting the transmission works when you are in an endurance race and trying to save fuel or it is about to blow up on you or gears are going away so you bypass them for as long as you can.

 

[Dotini]

Has anyone here that has used the 111R for this event tried the Elise '11? I ended up buying all of the Elise models to see which one performs the best and the only one I found that could rival the 111R was the Sport 190, averaging about 1 sec slower total time. That is until I tuned up the Elise '11... With a simple "eyeball" tune of the LSD/suspension + adding power upgrades to hit 450p, I broke my lap record of 1:39.2, achieving 1:38.1. As my knowledge of the course increased my times across the board dropped and I am now sitting at 8:42.xx with the 111R, but my Elise 11' times average around 8:38.xx.

To my knowledge the 111R is the king of Elises (Elisi? ha) so I thought it was pretty interesting that I am consistently quicker with the 2011 model. Also, I have applied various tweaks/tunes of my own to both cars, as well as using as many of the published tunes I can find, but I still can't close the gap between the two. However, I will admit to historically not being very fast with the Elise in general, just as DisabledRacer (I believe it was he) mentioned, so it could just be the subtle differences in the '11 being more conducive to my driving style. Just thought I'd ask if I'm the only one, and would be particularly interested to hear dddsprayshop, Ultimate, and the others opinions/results that have posted extremely quick times with the 111R.

P.S. I know I stated earlier that this was not very fun compared to the 'nurb event... Well I'm now eating my words, haha. Once getting a grasp on this track configuration (Normal Madrid has always been my fav city course, so running it in reverse just seemed so... wrong) I began to obsess over breaking the 8:40 mark, and am now shooting for 8:30. Needless to say I am now enjoying it & having a blast testing the lower powered cars that I have always ignored. Good stuff!

I've been tuning my 111R for long time. Been getting consistent 8:41 total times and best lap 1:37.
Within an hour of tuning on a fresh '11, my total is down to 8:36 and my best to 1:36, with considerably more to come.
That tells me the '11 with its fat torque curve is a very good option to the 111R on a stop-and-go track!

 

[coryclifford]

That fat torque curve is exactly what's missing from the 111R, and I mentioned it, too.

Time to try the '11.

 

[DisabledRacer]

To those still interested in trying a different car, try the RUF 3400S. Of all of the cars that I've tried in this seasonal, it's my favorite because of how good it handles. It may not be my fastest car, but I've run a total time of 8:44 without doing much tweaking to the car, so I'm sure it can go faster.

 

[UltimateLurker]

To my knowledge the 111R is the king of Elises

Both cars are 111R's actually, they just named them different for the game for some reason. "111" denotes the underbody (Elise/Exige), and the "R" denotes the Toyota powerplant. But the name "Elise" was taken from a particular girl, so the plural of that one, hmmm... lol

so I thought it was pretty interesting that I am consistently quicker with the 2011 model.

Me too, haven't even tried the car, and now I'm anxious to do so!

P.S. I know I stated earlier that this was not very fun compared to the 'nurb event... Well I'm now eating my words, haha. Once getting a grasp on this track configuration (Normal Madrid has always been my fav city course, so running it in reverse just seemed so... wrong) I began to obsess over breaking the 8:40 mark, and am now shooting for 8:30. Needless to say I am now enjoying it & having a blast testing the lower powered cars that I have always ignored. Good stuff!

Agreed!

 

[DisabledRacer]

Any of you tried the Elise Sport 190 '98? I just bought it and raced it with a total time of 8:44, and that was with me spending five minutes on tuning suspension and no transmission tweaking.

 

[UltimateLurker]

I haven't used it for this event, but I have never been able to drive that car as well as the '04 111R. But maybe that was because of the tune. The 190 is a really light car, does fantastic in the twisties.

 

[nowayback]

@UltimateLurker .Not sure whose tune this is(or started out as)....450pp, 239bhp, 1003kg 111r '04
130 100
4- 6.93
10-1
10-10
5-7
0-0
.03 .18
8-9 bb...............8/9/25lsd
143 ballast -50
racing exh, catalytic, intake tubing 99.4 power. don't know if I changed oil
trans...not sure how I got it.
probably final 5000, max 180km
3350-2502-1938-1554-1281-1093
FG 4125
I haven't fine tuned anything. NO DF
Took a spin with 190 '98, not bad stock basically except for gears. 8:34.xxx bl 1:35.419.

 

[breyzipp]

In the debate about the different Elises, a couple of weeks ago I ran all premium MR cars at the autumn ring reverse expert seasonal as well and I was also significantly quicker with the 2011 model than the 111R (with a note that the 111R was further away from the 580 pp limit than the other Elises).

The setup was ofcourse completely different from this event (580 pp, SH tires, different track) but it might be some useful information in finding the quickest Elise car for this track. I'll add the other Lotus cars to it as well, my original post can be found here : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...tumn-ring-reverse.323825/page-4#post-10480210

Times for the autumn ring event (Lotus premium MR cars) :

7:26.825 - 580 pp - Lotus Elise '11
7:36.208 - 573 pp - Lotus Evora '09
7:37.274 - 573 pp - Lotus Elise '96
7:41.731 - 552 pp - Lotus Elise 111R '04
7:42.179 - 580 pp - Lotus Esprit V8 '02
7:57.029 - 535 pp - Lotus Europa Special '72
7:57.178 - 563 pp - Lotus Europa S.2 '68

 

[DisabledRacer]

To show that I am trying hard to win the: "I have no life award" Here are 14 more cars that I haven't previously posted, that I have won with.... All cars had basic and simple tunes and are easily capable of faster times.

Lotus Esprit Turbo HC '87 - 8:48.748
Lotus Esprit V8 GT'87 - 8:47.499
Lotus Elise 111S '03 - 8:39.567
MG MGF '97 - 8:46.241
Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA 1600 '65 - 8:57.541
Cizeta V16T '94 - 9:10.878
Lotus Carlton '90 9:03.087
Aston Martin DB7 Vantage Coupe '00 - 9:02.044
Alpine A310 1600VE '73 - 9:04.520
Lotus Evora '09 - 8:48.479
Renault 5 Turbo - 8:55.758
Peugeot RCZ - 9:10.628
Ferrari F40 - 8:56.406
BMW Z4 '03 - 8:52.637

Only one car did I try that I could NOT win with..... The Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99.

 

[Pizzicato65]

That fat torque curve is exactly what's missing from the 111R, and I mentioned it, too.

Time to try the '11.

That power curve has always stumped me when it comes to tuning the transmission, to he point where I've pretty much avoided the car. So I'm digging how quick the '11 is at this pp level.

Both cars are 111R's actually, they just named them different for the game for some reason. "111" denotes the underbody (Elise/Exige), and the "R" denotes the Toyota powerplant. But the name "Elise" was taken from a particular girl, so the plural of that one, hmmm... lol

I did not know that, thanks for the info. Always just assumed that "111R" was a trim-level, akin to something like the Z06 for the 'vette. Being in the States Im quite fascinated by Lotus & would love to try out an Exige or Evora IRL. I'm fairly new to the car scene & the sportiest cars I've owned are Saabs (9-5 Aero & 9-3 Arc), so I can't imagine what thrills a little Lotus rocket would bring!

Anyway, glad to hear that others are finding the '11 model to be as quick/quicker here. Was spending hours tweaking each to see where I was going wrong!

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Has anyone here that has used the 111R for this event tried the Elise '11?

Yeah I read in another thread someone was getting 2 seconds a lap better with the Elise '11 over the 111r. So gave it ago and hobbled a tune together and way prefer it. Feels smoother to drive and for me about a second a lap faster at Madrid.

Another car I really enjoyed was the Golf r32, managed similar times to the Elise in it as well.

Has anyone tried the Peugeot 205 turbo?
Happy racing

 

[gkgamer]

having trouble winning this one in the Fiat 500 F'68 and R'72 even with the slower opposition. I couldn't get it done in the Autobianchi A112 nor the M-B A160 facing the faster rabbits.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Awesome info, thanks guys! Now I just have to settle on a tune for the '11 Elise!

 

[YapalfeuAulac]

Has anyone tried the Peugeot 205 turbo?

Yes, first car I've tried. Tuned by Praiano, it's a winner :

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...bull-x2014-junior.291084/page-18#post-9115211

Change tyres, BB 10/10, but that is up to you.

Only one car did I try that I could NOT win with..... The Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99.

I do like this car, but isnt'it a bit heavy for Madrid?

 

[steve nfs]

Version 1.17 got bugs ? My transmission will change to this after stop or finished race. Tried exit then come back again, same situation. Only your transmission setting gone. It's not my settings. Happen on this hot hatch race !!! ???

 

[DisabledRacer]

I do like this car, but isnt'it a bit heavy for Madrid?

Are you calling the Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99 fat? Now that you mentioned the weight of the Vantage.... I think I know why I couldn't win. I should have tried driving through the hot hatches instead of going around them! 💡

 

[YapalfeuAulac]

Are you calling the Aston Martin V8 Vantage '99 fat? Now that you mentioned the weight of the Vantage.... I think I know why I couldn't win. I should have tried driving through the hot hatches instead of going around them! 💡

Version 1.17 got bugs ? My transmission will change to this after stop or finished race. Tried exit then come back again, same situation. Only your transmission setting gone. It's not my settings. Happen on this hot hatch race !!! ???
View attachment 332553

Yes, it's a bug:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/1-17-update-major-issue-read.325638/

 

[Woodski_427]

First win was in Audi TTS, 8:57.8 over Scirocco R.

Tried Mk1 Golf but couldn't get better than second against BMW 135i, or Scirocco.

Then I tried something I don't remember seeing mentioned in the Seasonals before. Citroen Xantia 3.0 .

Many attempts and many tweaks eventually saw a victory vs the Megane RS Trophy. Only because he stuffed it into the monument on the final lap - I was about 5 seconds behind. Total time 9:04.190.

 

[Dr Fourtrack]

Dunno if it was just my machine, or the Seasonal, but I can't adjust the Gears on my Breara. A couple of days ago I was having my first proper go at doing this and noticed that I could use a slightly tighter ratio and adjusted them. Today I started and thought they still needed a bit more squeezing and found they were still set-up as they were before Monday.
Today I Tested and they can't be changed with the Final Gear. I can change the Max Speed tho'
Anyone else found this?

 

[gkgamer]

Dunno if it was just my machine, or the Seasonal, but I can't adjust the Gears on my Breara. A couple of days ago I was having my first proper go at doing this and noticed that I could use a slightly tighter ratio and adjusted them. Today I started and thought they still needed a bit more squeezing and found they were still set-up as they were before Monday.
Today I Tested and they can't be changed with the Final Gear. I can change the Max Speed tho'
Anyone else found this?

it is a bug (or is it a bug fix?) that was implemented with yesterday's 1.17 update. All FC transmissions are not adjustable using the final gear settings anymore. This doesn't seem to be the case with multiplayer online racing. Only the single player modes seem to be affected.
But before posting anything, it is always a good idea to read the previous posts just to make sure you are not bringing an answered question all over again. This issue was actually addressed 2 posts earlier...

 

[Dr Fourtrack]

oops sorry Glad you pointed out that link, or I would be going mad with it. hope it gets fixed soon.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Car has a serious bog in the middle of the range, and then looking at the dyno charts, it's plain as day. Terrible.

I see what you were referring to now, and though it looks bad, I don't believe it hurts the performance at all. See below.

In the debate about the different Elises...

7:26.825 - 580 pp - Lotus Elise '11
7:41.731 - 552 pp - Lotus Elise 111R '04

That's a huge time difference.

Last night I spec'd out an '11 Elise to an '04 111R Elise, matching as closely as I could, the lower specs of the '11 to the higher specs of the '04. The '11 came out with +1PP, -1HP, -1KG, and +13TQ. This was as close as I could get them, but I think 1PP is close enough. Anyway, all other specs were matched exact, weight distribution included.

I took both cars to the standard Madrid and did 5 laps each. I found no significant difference between the two cars, average lap for both being 1:37.x, and the fastest lap, a 1:36.x belonged to the '04. This tells me that there was something else at work to get the major difference you showed. The gearing for the cars is completely different, so if you didn't change that, it could account for a much better time in the '11 on a short track.

At their limits, the '11 is +8PP, HP is +25, TQ is +37, but it is 14KG heavier. Still, it's KG/HP ratio is 2.03, compared the the '04's 2.14, so I can see it being the faster car, but not by much.

 

[mustangxr]

Strange... I had no problems winning with the X-Bow Street, even with the poor tune that I created. Maybe the X-Bow Street to you is like the Lotus Elise to me. Everybody goes super fast in the Elise, except me. I find the Berlinette R/S Coupe faster than the Elise 111R! That comment most likely will get me persecuted in this thread!



View attachment 331040

Hi there D.R.
I just bought a Berlinetta and tried it stock but kept losing the back end out of corners. What did you use for a tune?? My best so far with this car is a fourth??
Cheers, Pete

 

[breyzipp]

I see what you were referring to now, and though it looks bad, I don't believe it hurts the performance at all. See below.



That's a huge time difference.

Last night I spec'd out an '11 Elise to an '04 111R Elise, matching as closely as I could, the lower specs of the '11 to the higher specs of the '04. The '11 came out with +1PP, -1HP, -1KG, and +13TQ. This was as close as I could get them, but I think 1PP is close enough. Anyway, all other specs were matched exact, weight distribution included.

I took both cars to the standard Madrid and did 5 laps each. I found no significant difference between the two cars, average lap for both being 1:37.x, and the fastest lap, a 1:36.x belonged to the '04. This tells me that there was something else at work to get the major difference you showed. The gearing for the cars is completely different, so if you didn't change that, it could account for a much better time in the '11 on a short track.

At their limits, the '11 is +8PP, HP is +25, TQ is +37, but it is 14KG heavier. Still, it's KG/HP ratio is 2.03, compared the the '04's 2.14, so I can see it being the faster car, but not by much.

Yes I didn't change the gearing apart from lowering the maximum speed slider a bit because autumn ring reverse doesn't have a long straight. But I'm 100% sure I didn't touch individual nor final gears, those were left default. So that might be the reason, along with the 28 PP difference since the 111R can't go higher than 552 pp while the '11 reached the 580 pp limit.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Yes I didn't change the gearing apart from lowering the maximum speed slider a bit because autumn ring reverse doesn't have a long straight. But I'm 100% sure I didn't touch individual nor final gears, those were left default. So that might be the reason, along with the 28 PP difference since the 111R can't go higher than 552 pp while the '11 reached the 580 pp limit.

Top speed is set to 133 on the '11
Top speed is set to 168 on the '04

This assuming you add the adjustable trans, but don't modify it. The gearing, for the power, is much better in the '11 for a short track for sure.

Max PP for the '04 is 545
Max PP for the '11 is 552

How did you get the '11 to 580PP? I don't use N20, so I guess that could be it.

 

[gkgamer]

flat floor maybe?
just a wild guess but I remember it roughly added 30PP on other cars...

 

[breyzipp]

I can't check since I don't have the cars anymore as I sold them and bought the bone stock versions again. But if it was possible to add a flat floor I would have certainly done that yes. A flat floor is 10 pp I think right?

What I did for that event was purchase all possible upgrades for a certain car, everything from the car settings and also from GT auto. Always aero kits and flat floors when available, a spoiler only if it made the car look better but I think I left that out for both Elises since I prefer them as they come stock.

So I had the custom transmissions, custom LSD, custom suspension and all that yes but left it at the default values. For the transmission I reset it to 'default' after doing all the power upgrades and then only lowered the maximum speed slider. For autumn ring reverse I believe I put it around 200-220 kph so that I just hit the limiter between the start/finish line and the braking point for the first corner.

 

[UltimateLurker]

Ah, I had no idea. But flat floors can be added to either, so the difference will still only be 8PP between them.

 

[breyzipp]

Maybe a turbo kit or some other power upgrade then? Or weight reduction? There must be a reason the '11 can reach 580 pp and the 111R can't go higher than 552.