Abortion
- Thread starter Danoff
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Joey D
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This forum is an echo chamber where it's nothing more than a self-feeding bubble, but yet:
Look if it's a self-feeding bubble and somehow purely libertarian, then why are you "wasting your time"?
Also, have you maybe considered that things are vastly different in the Middle East than they are in the US and Europe, the two areas where a vast majority of members on this board are from? What makes sense in the Middle East whether due to culture or whatever the government makes you do, might not make sense elsewhere. Unless of course, you're not actually from the Middle East. I mean you seem to think you understand the US political parties despite not living here.
If you did know about American political parties, you'd know that a significant portion of voters are single-issue voters with those mainly being guns and abortion.Interesting you think abortion and guns are the only differences between the parties or their voters. The issue that matters most at the end of the day is the economy and worker rights. On this issue alone my beliefs would get me assassinated by right wingers with the guns I advocated they keep
Not "nothing more", and not "this forum". There's a variety of opinions about GT7.
Also even on the opinion section, despite being a bit of an echochamber, it's still something. Otherwise, I wouldn't be engaging.
The waste of time comment is specifically about arguing with a libertarian about anti trust. I've mentioned several times that Google should've never been able to buy youtube, for example.
I've been on forums since dial up, where the majority are American. I've been around. Few people who aren't family in my social circle were from the Middle East. I mentioned before that my opinions are fringe here, but not in the West or online. My family call me "American" when they try to insult me for my views. I don't know why you keep bringing up the flag under my username.
I am, in case anyone else is wondering.
Well, I do.
One in Four Americans Consider Abortion a Key Voting Issue
Nearly half of U.S. adults say abortion will be one of many important factors in their vote for a candidate for a major office, 25% do not consider it a key issue and 24% say they will vote only for a candidate who shares their views.
news.gallup.com
~25% basket of deplorables on both sides doesn't change anything. Going for the remaining 75% is what'll get you elected, and what democrats have been failing at. Obama only won because spoke to the majority and pretended to care/do anything. He ran the country like a moderate Republican by his own admission.
Joey D
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GT7 != political issues. Of course there's going to be a wider variety of opinions on a video game, especially on a video game forum. Chances are most members here never even venture out of the GT section (and that's completely OK), but some of us have been here for so long that we don't even play the game anymore.
Still, sounds like you're the one who likes to be in an echo chamber if you don't want to listen to someone who likely has a different opinion than yourself. Regardless, there are a bunch of members on these boards of all different political ideologies. I've had a number of discussions with people in the opinion section that have views wildly different than my own. Members like @GranTurNismo are on the complete opposite side of the spectrum than myself and yet I can have a well reasoned and intelligent discussion with him, even if we don't agree. And it's worth having those discussions too. You need to challenge your own beliefs.
Because where you live is going to change how you view things. Someone from Europe is likely going to have a vastly different view on things than someone from America since politically and culturally the two places are incredibly different. The US Constitution also grants certain rights that other countries do not have. Freedom of speech is a big one and why it's acceptable for some countries to censor speech and why in the US it can't be censored at all.
You might think you do, but you likely don't. In order to fully understand how the politics of a country work you need to live there, be affected by it, and vote for it. The only thing I know about Bahrain is that it's an Islamic monarchy with a horrid human rights record and used to be part of the British Empire. The media in Bahrain is also restricted, so what you're exposed to is going to be what the country wants you to be exposed too. It's obviously not China or Russian levels of ridiculous, but it's still not as open as the US.
It's way more nuanced than that and just shows me you really don't understand American politics any better than a vast majority of us understand Bahraini politics.
- 40,822
You both have next to no understanding of how rights are established in the US vis a vis what government has oversight over when it comes to private property/entities and have been repeatedly caught off guard when people have pointed out that your viewpoints and ideas for legislation are mirror images of those of the American far right.
So, no, you don't; no matter how many times you insist that people arguing against you must all be part of a large libertarian echo chamber.
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Did you miss the part where it's completely illegal in Bahrain? Also the part where I'm more pro-abortion than current laws in most of Europe? Where did my views come from?
@UKMikey @TexRex no it's not my ass.
"Record"? You mean allegations of human rights violations.
Healthcare is a constitutional human right here and is free. I think not having that is a crime against humanity. Does this mean America has a horrid human rights record?
As far as I'm concerned, even if some of those allegations are true, at least we: guarantee healthcare, have 44 paid annual leave days and public holidays, and 60 day paid maternity leave. You're here arguing for abortion, how about you start with arguing for maternity leave for the pregnant women or free abortion if they choose it?
And yet here I am...
I'm pretty sure I pointed that out myself, that you guys make me SOUND like an American republican. Okay though, if you say so.
Danoff
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UKMikey
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So just like in the Skinner cartoon, it's everybody else here that's wrong about why abortion shouldn't be delayed (and how Section 230 works, why the invasion of Ukraine is wrong, etc etc). None of these positions sound like American conservative talking points at all and even a closet Republican like Barack Obama would've agreed with you.
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You said that me confessing to being pro gun and anti late term abortion "clip chimps the whole statement". Whole statement, as if those two policies negate what I said prior which is that I'm far from an American right winger.
So back to abortion, I'll have a look at the "rights" thread and see if I can start there.
McLaren
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No, I said you clip chimped his whole statement because you dissected one sentence to pull 1 thing from it & responded to that. @Imari did not just say you have a remarkable amount in common with right wingers, he said, "If you're an authoritarian leftist", you might.
None of that has anything to do with me never saying the only difference between both parties is guns & abortion.
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Joey D
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Only you can answer that. I don't know you at all past what you've posted.
I mean 2011 happened, do you not remember that? You know with the killing, torturing, imprisonment, and media suppression? That really wasn't that long ago.
And no, I'm not going to argue for maternity leave, free abortions, or even free healthcare. A person or a private entity all have the option to offer all of those things, but the government cannot, and should not force them. Abortions should be legal and that's it, past that it's up to the patient on how they wish to pay for it and it's up to insurance companies whether or not they should cover it. It's a strong enough issue that there would be a considerable amount of charitable and non-profit support to help women who were unable to afford the procedure.
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I'm pro-choice without any doubt.
Conservatives like to argue that how dare you take away the opportunity of living from that fetus. This makes no sense to me. If we are talking about opportunities then aren't we taking those away every time when using contraception also? What's the difference between rugpulling the potential child that could be born right at conception, or any time before birth? I think nothing morally, so let's not pretend otherwise.
What makes human life unique and worth preserving are the life experiences they accumulated. And since the ability to retain memories only develops after birth, we can safely say that an unborn fetus should not have human rights.
Conservatives like to argue that how dare you take away the opportunity of living from that fetus. This makes no sense to me. If we are talking about opportunities then aren't we taking those away every time when using contraception also? What's the difference between rugpulling the potential child that could be born right at conception, or any time before birth? I think nothing morally, so let's not pretend otherwise.
What makes human life unique and worth preserving are the life experiences they accumulated. And since the ability to retain memories only develops after birth, we can safely say that an unborn fetus should not have human rights.
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- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
Ah.
For those unaware, the Supreme Court's holding in Griswold recognized the right of access to contraceptives for married couples. This protection would soon after be extended to the unmarried in Baird.
Contraception is the logical next step for the authoritarian anti-choicers, recently thought by moderates to be a bridge too far. With conservatives frequently expressing contempt for the notion of consent, it wouldn't surprise me to see efforts to curtail penalties and enforcement of rape offenses.
For those unaware, the Supreme Court's holding in Griswold recognized the right of access to contraceptives for married couples. This protection would soon after be extended to the unmarried in Baird.
Contraception is the logical next step for the authoritarian anti-choicers, recently thought by moderates to be a bridge too far. With conservatives frequently expressing contempt for the notion of consent, it wouldn't surprise me to see efforts to curtail penalties and enforcement of rape offenses.
- 29,928
- a baby, candy, it's like taking.
- TexRex72
The same can be said of rights, which is to say nothing of acknowledgement or protection thereof. Rights, in this instance the right to bodily integrity, exist absent any effort to affect them.
The actual real point, however, is your having attempted, unsuccessfully, to obfuscate an issue by inserting obscure notions in an effort to dodge a question (mine, as it happens) and bolster a preferred narrative. You rightly got called out on this and now you're attempting to walk it back with further obfuscation.
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I'm "pro-choice", I guess, but it doesn't mean that I like it. I really rather people be prudent and use contraceptives rather than resorting to the hoovering of healthy babies off their uteruses. But abortion should be legal because rape victims exist and you can't possibly veto them to see if they're a "real rape victim" or not, and also the baby might be non-viable.
Danoff
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In the US, <1% of abortions are after 21 weeks of gestation, and there are no babies in uteruses.
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