Abortion

[HenrySwanson]

So the pro-lifers have fought for and got something that will kill roughly the same amount of "babies", but also more women than before. Sound logic.

 

[TexRex]

 

[HenrySwanson]

How is that contradictory to that post? It's the position of our current laws (upper limit of 24 weeks), something which pro-lifers wouldn't (I presume) approve of? If you're talking about the logic of 24 weeks, it's generally the mark where a neonatology team would almost always give resuscitation to a born infant, so to me it makes sense to have that as a cut-off. The BMA itself, the union and professional body for doctors, opposes any change to the limit....

 

[TexRex]

---

 

[HenrySwanson]

Yeah, for the reasons above....

 

[TexRex]

 

[Joey D]

There is. Not being deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law. There is no due process in banning abortion. A non-criminal, having not been found guilty of criminal acts, is being deprived of life, liberty, AND property via banning abortions.

Thinking about it more last night and doing some more reading, this line of reasoning does make sense.

 

[McLaren]

The duality of Trump.

“Today’s decision, which is the biggest WIN for LIFE in a generation, along with other decisions that have been announced recently, were only made possible because I delivered everything as promised, including nominating and getting three highly respected and strong Constitutionalists confirmed to the United States Supreme Court. It was my great honor to do so!”

He has complained privately that the overturning of Roe could hurt Republicans politically in independent and suburban districts, two advisers said, and has told allies they should emphasize that states can set their own laws. Trump has also told some of his advisers he thinks a better position would be to limit but not ban abortion, two of these people said, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to reveal internal discussions.

“He is convinced it won’t help him in the future,” one adviser said of Roe being overturned, and would prefer the 2022 midterms and 2024 presidential election be primarily about other topics, such as inflation, immigration and Biden’s messy pullout in Afghanistan, four people who have spoken with him said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/trump-publicly-praises-roes-repeal-privately-frets-about-impact/

 

[TexRex]

The duality of Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/trump-publicly-praises-roes-repeal-privately-frets-about-impact/

More scathing an indictment of the Trump/GOP base. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers. Always have been and always will be.

Edit:

Prov. officer charged after assault on rival at abortion rally

A Providence police officer and political candidate has been placed on administrative leave after he reportedly assaulted a woman outside the Rhode Island State House Friday night.

www.wpri.com

"The Providence Police Department has confirmed that officer Jeann Lugo, a Republican who is running for state Senate, was placed on paid leave Saturday morning.

Lugo, according to police, is a three-year veteran of the force and was off duty at the time."

 

[UKMikey]

More scathing an indictment of the Trump/GOP base. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers. Always have been and always will be.

Edit:

Prov. officer charged after assault on rival at abortion rally

A Providence police officer and political candidate has been placed on administrative leave after he reportedly assaulted a woman outside the Rhode Island State House Friday night.

www.wpri.com

"The Providence Police Department has confirmed that officer Jeann Lugo, a Republican who is running for state Senate, was placed on paid leave Saturday morning.

Lugo, according to police, is a three-year veteran of the force and was off duty at the time."

So he was brutalizing in his spare time, then? I miss the days when an incident like this would definitely end his chances of being elected.

 

[TexRex]

So he was brutalizing in his spare time, then? I miss the days when an incident like this would definitely end his chances of being elected.

Or returning to duty. Oh, wait, that's never been the case.

 

[Jimlaad43]

How the Row Vs Wade overturning decision was made:

"How do we reduce the amount of kids being shot at school?"
"I know, let's ban Abortion so there are more kids, and therefore the percentage of children being shot at school goes down!"
Raucus cheering

 

[Blitz24]

How the Row Vs Wade overturning decision was made:

"How do we reduce the amount of kids being shot at school?"
"I know, let's ban Abortion so there are more kids, and therefore the percentage of children being shot at school goes down!"
Raucus cheering

It also means more guns to be sold! Everybody wins!

 

[TexRex]

It also means more guns to be sold! Everybody wins!

That's a ways off, though. In the nearer future, more victims for the SBC to feed to rapists.

 

[HenrySwanson]

This got me thinking....

Once it's in an artificial womb, should you be able to kill it? If not, does that still apply wayyy into the future if it becomes available to develop an embryo from fertilisation? Because that would mean it has some sort of rights, just that they are contingent on who is the "host", or maybe on what constitutes "birth".

EDIT: This paper argues that we should recognise the subject in the artifical womb as distinct from a foetus or a baby, and refers to it as a "gestateling". It doesn't make a case for what rights, if any they may have however.

 

[TexRex]

 

[NotThePrez]

 

[Blitz24]

I wonder what happened about a month ago? I guess the "thoughts and prayers" were for her to develop amnesia!

 

[TexRex]

I wonder what happened about a month ago? I guess the "thoughts and prayers" were for her to develop amnesia!

One of the defining features of Chunkabee's tenure as White House Press Secretary was the infrequency with which short-term memory converted to long-term.

 

[GTvon]

Interesting

 

[UKMikey]

French lawmakers propose bill to inscribe abortion rights in constitution

Constitutional law would cement abortion rights for future generations, says member of parliament

www.theguardian.com

 

[McLaren]

People still have that right, No rights were taken away and in fact the rights of the states to make laws within their borders was finally given back to the states. This is the United States wherein each State is a sovereign nation unto itself, it;s not the American Federation.
Federal government is only responsible for securing the borders and keeping a standing army for the defense of all the States. They are not doing their job on the borders though since Biden screwed things up there.

It was never about states having the right to decide for themselves. If that was true, these ghouls wouldn't already be talking about a national ban.

After saying that “life won” on Friday, Pence, who is considered a potential GOP contender in the 2024 presidential election, went one step further by arguing the court’s decision in Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health should lead to a national ban on abortion.

“Now that Roe v. Wade has been consigned to the ash heap of history, a new arena in the cause of life has emerged, and it is incumbent on all who cherish the sanctity of life to resolve that we will take the defense of the unborn and the support for women in crisis pregnancy centers to every state in America,” he said to Breitbart. “Having been given this second chance for Life, we must not rest and must not relent until the sanctity of life is restored to the center of American law in every state in the land.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/24/abortion-supreme-court-trump-pence-republicans-roe/

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in an interview with USA Today that a national abortion ban is “possible” if Roe v. Wade gets overturned this summer.

“If the leaked opinion became the final opinion, legislative bodies — not only at the state level but at the federal level — certainly could legislate in that area,” McConnell told USA Today when asked if a national abortion ban is “worthy of debate.”

“And if this were the final decision, that was the point that it should be resolved one way or another in the legislative process. So yeah, it’s possible,” he concluded.

McConnell says national abortion ban ‘possible’

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) said in an interview with USA Today that a national abortion ban is “possible” if Roe v. Wade gets overturned this summer. “If the l…

thehill.com

 

[Danoff]

People still have that right, No rights were taken away and in fact the rights of the states to make laws within their borders was finally given back to the states. This is the United States wherein each State is a sovereign nation unto itself, it;s not the American Federation.
Federal government is only responsible for securing the borders and keeping a standing army for the defense of all the States. They are not doing their job on the borders though since Biden screwed things up there.

The bill of rights is responsible for establishing which rights the government shall not infringe - and that covers abortion. This is not a "states rights" issue. And no, people in Texas are already being denied their rights. Other states are poised to force women to die over non-viable embryos.

 

[Famine]

Other states are poised to force women to die over non-viable embryos.

Indeed. There are numerous conditions where an embryo or foetus will not be delivered live and will kill its host long before even that happens, and the treatment for those is termination.

It's pretty clear that denying access to terminations under any circumstances is a death sentence - and it's pretty clear that's not a States' rights issue.

But then the SCOTUS was also busy denying States' rights over the weekend too...

 

[Biggles]

People still have that right, No rights were taken away and in fact the rights of the states to make laws within their borders was finally given back to the states. This is the United States wherein each State is a sovereign nation unto itself, it;s not the American Federation.
Federal government is only responsible for securing the borders and keeping a standing army for the defense of all the States. They are not doing their job on the borders though since Biden screwed things up there.

The GOP has been on a concerted mission to undermine democracy in all the states they have been able to control via aggressive redistricting/ gerrymandering and voter suppression*. Then the "sovereign nations" use their un-democratic leverage over the federal political system, to push their agenda nationally - like their ability to block Democratic SCOTUS nominees and load the Court with a number of conservative justices that doesn't represent the will of the people. As a bonus, when Republicans clearly lose the Presidency they simply declare - with no evidence - that the election was "stolen".

*“I don’t want everybody to vote,” the influential conservative activist Paul Weyrich told a gathering of evangelical leaders in 1980. “As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.”

 

[HenrySwanson]

Reading this case has made me rethink my stance on the upper limit, since jailing a woman with psychiatric issues for abortion is completely at odds with a fair society. However if you accept that, then you must accept this, something which is much harder to justify morally. Still, if the aim is to improve patient outcomes then the limit has to go, but that opens up the question as to what is a patient, or more specifically if a foetus qualifies as one (an issue of which a whole book and more has been written about). With the advent of artificial womb technology it's also going to be hard to have the threshold left as born vs unborn, as my unanswered questions in the previous post showed. But partial ectogenesis (growing a subject outside the womb, but initially taken from a person) will always require an invasive procedure on the host, and so would require informed consent and a respect for bodily autonomy, which unfortunately has to trump the life of the other. Looking at the products of conception of third trimester abortions does make you realise just at what cost to society this comes with.

 

[UKMikey]

More scathing an indictment of the Trump/GOP base. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers. Always have been and always will be.

Edit:

Prov. officer charged after assault on rival at abortion rally

A Providence police officer and political candidate has been placed on administrative leave after he reportedly assaulted a woman outside the Rhode Island State House Friday night.

www.wpri.com

"The Providence Police Department has confirmed that officer Jeann Lugo, a Republican who is running for state Senate, was placed on paid leave Saturday morning.

Lugo, according to police, is a three-year veteran of the force and was off duty at the time."

Lugo has dropped out of the race and deleted his Twitter account. He hasn't been charged, though.

 

[TexRex]

Lugo has dropped out of the race and deleted his Twitter account. He hasn't been charged, though.

View attachment 1166320

Cancel culture strikes again.

 

[UKMikey]

Cancel culture strikes again.

He needs to stop erasing his social media history.

 

[Danoff]

Reading this case has made me rethink my stance on the upper limit, since jailing a woman with psychiatric issues for abortion is completely at odds with a fair society. However if you accept that, then you must accept this, something which is much harder to justify morally. Still, if the aim is to improve patient outcomes then the limit has to go, but that opens up the question as to what is a patient, or more specifically if a foetus qualifies as one (an issue of which a whole book and more has been written about). With the advent of artificial womb technology it's also going to be hard to have the threshold left as born vs unborn, as my unanswered questions in the previous post showed. But partial ectogenesis (growing a subject outside the womb, but initially taken from a person) will always require an invasive procedure on the host, and so would require informed consent and a respect for bodily autonomy, which unfortunately has to trump the life of the other. Looking at the products of conception of third trimester abortions does make you realise just at what cost to society this comes with.

It's easy, just stop thinking of the unborn as a 1 year old. A clump of cells is not a baby. There's nothing unfortunate about the life of the mother being more important than the life of an embryo. It makes perfect sense. The life of the mother is more important than the life of a cow as well, for actual concrete reasons.