Aliens

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

That is what is called a delusion. If there are multiple witnesses, photos, radar and trace effects, we can call it a consensual delusion.

Hmmm...Lately I've been reading a book about mixing colors. There the author said we can't really define what "color" really is. Because color is different from person to person. The "red" we are looking at, at the same time are different not just between our eyes, but how our minds look to the color "red". I'm saying this because maybe things some people see (paranormal things) are just normal things in other people's mind. Ghost to observer1 and just a wind for observer2 (yes I said that, what if observer2 can see wind). Not because others are crazy or have brain defect but that's how their minds perceive things in their consciousness, how things exist in their universe. Of all the thousands of people that night, what if I'm the only one that saw that light not because I made it up or I'm crazy but only my mind is capable of seeing that light? Its beyond science, beyond knowledge. Its hard to explain....I even lost my train of thought. Hey don't get me wrong I'm explaining people's thought process not the light I saw.

 

[Dotini]

Of all the thousands of people that night, what if I'm the only one that saw that light not because I made it up or I'm crazy but only my mind is capable of seeing that light? Its beyond science, beyond knowledge.

You've put your finger on a big problem: most people look down, and not up. They look down at their smartphones, above all. So unless you look up, you will certainly NEVER see a UFO. Which is a great loss, since they are easily seen by regularly viewing the night sky as you did, and hopefully still do. Also, peoples' vision differs greatly. Some can see a bit farther into the infrared or ultraviolet than others do. The same thing applies to camera and video equipment.

Finally, can people experience a vision, an event, a sighting, that others see differently or not at all? The answer here is an emphatic "yes". The most spectacular case of this is the Fatima, Portugal, 1917 Apparition(s) of Mary. Three children saw and heard the Virgin, while 70,000 others saw a UFO, dancing colored lights, the smell of roses, or other weirdness.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

You've put your finger on a big problem: most people look down, and not up. They look down at their smartphones, above all. So unless you look up, you will certainly NEVER see a UFO. Which is a great loss, since they are easily seen by regularly viewing the night sky as you did, and hopefully still do. Also, peoples' vision differs greatly. Some can see a bit farther into the infrared or ultraviolet than others do. The same thing applies to camera and video equipment.

Finally, can people experience a vision, an event, a sighting, that others see differently or not at all? The answer here is an emphatic "yes". The most spectacular case of this is the Fatima, Portugal, 1917 Apparition(s) of Mary. Three children saw and heard the Virgin, while 70,000 others saw a UFO, dancing colored lights, the smell of roses, or other weirdness.

Thanks for confirming I'm not crazy. Whew...I thought my explanation for "things" sounds a little far out.

 

[Dean]

Finally, can people experience a vision, an event, a sighting, that others see differently or not at all? The answer here is an emphatic "yes". The most spectacular case of this is the Fatima, Portugal, 1917 Apparition(s) of Mary. Three children saw and heard the Virgin, while 70,000 others saw a UFO, dancing colored lights, the smell of roses, or other weirdness.

So, in theory, what you're saying is that, as an example, the sighting I had many years ago, actually could've been something I've just seen, but it really being something different for other people? Sort of like a Fata Mogana, but only for me? -- In other words, I've simply been crazy.

 

[Dotini]

So, in theory, what you're saying is that, as an example, the sighting I had many years ago, actually could've been something I've just seen, but it really being something different for other people? Sort of like a Fata Mogana, but only for me? -- In other words, I've simply been crazy.

Yes. But there is no implication that you were crazy. "Altered state of consciousness" is the preferred term.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So, in theory, what you're saying is that, as an example, the sighting I had many years ago, actually could've been something I've just seen, but it really being something different for other people? Sort of like a Fata Mogana, but only for me? -- In other words, I've simply been crazy.

Yes. But there is no implication that you were crazy. "Altered state of consciousness" is the preferred term.

Dean, nah he's crazy

 

[Dotini]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-kean/government-agency-in-chil_b_5558713.html?utm_hp_ref=ufo
A UFO hovered for over an hour above a Chilean mine. Technicians were able to take photographs, which the Chilean government has studied, considered genuine, and released to the public.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

*look at the sky* WHY DON'T YOU JUST SHOW YOURSELVES F:censored:ERS!!! *throws rock*

 

[Dotini]

*look at the sky* WHY DON'T YOU JUST SHOW YOURSELVES F:censored:ERS!!! *throws rock*

Heh heh! 👍
They show themselves just as much as they need to in order to accomplish their seeming agenda: Influence the long-term belief systems of humans.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

Influence the long-term belief systems of humans.

What do you mean?

 

[Dotini]

What do you mean?

In brief, I mean what the historical record shows. Our mutually shared belief systems - meaning mythology, religion, folklore, legend, popular culture, entertainment (and more) - have been and continue to be permeated and influenced by the "alien/angel/UFO" meme. We know this has been so for thousands of years.

The "phenomenon", whatever it is, adapts its outer form and symbolic communication to the prevailing culture and its level of technology. In the 19th century, UFO's looked like dirigible air ships, replete with ropes and anchors. In Vedic or biblical literature, they are described as flying chariots of fire, or wheels within wheels.

The phenomenon is NEVER caught, killed, trapped, or pinned down to study. It is elusive, but comes and goes as it does, staying on the edge of consciousness and influencing our beliefs much as a thermostat influences room temperature.

 

[FoolKiller]

I remember that episode of Star Trek.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I have questions and/or doubts about the Phoenix '97 video.

Like what exactly? I was a little kid when I saw them.

 

[Dotini]

Like what exactly? I was a little kid when I saw them.

I followed the events as carefully as I could from Seattle. My best friend visited relatives who saw them, and of course I read all the books and articles.

My understanding is that the early PM overflight of the whole state by the giant V was genuine, but the late PM lights seen strictly from Phoenix might have been flares from the Barry Goldwater test range.

What was it that you saw, and what was the time check?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I followed the events as carefully as I could from Seattle. My best friend visited relatives who saw them, and of course I read all the books and articles.

My understanding is that the early PM overflight of the whole state by the giant V was genuine, but the late PM lights seen strictly from Phoenix might have been flares from the Barry Goldwater test range.

What was it that you saw, and what was the time check?

It was early in the evening that I saw what I saw but since it was almost two decades ago I don't recall the actual time, the shape was a V and I've only seen few other things in Arizona since then that have made me question it. As a kid I was always into planes (hence my degree field) and thus I knew what jets were in the area but it didn't make sound and seemed quite big and really didn't know much if anything about Aliens or UFOs at that time.

It wasn't until I woke up the next morning to see the media storm surrounding our city about the entire thing. I feel the flares that at the time even Luke AFB couldn't recall are make comment on was a cover for the first event. I don't remember seeing the second set all that much. However, I do believe the second event was simply flares as I've said above the only reason I think so is because I've seen the military launch flares. And I've watched the Goldwater Test Range quite often. Since my family (for now) lives in Yuma, I use the I-8 and when my family did live in Phx before moving to Yuma in 2005 that was the route we used to visit relatives. This is relevant because this is where I would get to see flares and watch distant operations. In recent years it has become a big search and rescue location for the AF while the Marines in my hometown (Yuma) use it for other actives on the west end which is right on the outskirts of the Foothills.

I've also seen them do runs at the Chocolate Mountains though from a distance once again, but we have an extension in Yuma of the Barry Goldwater Test range in Yuma that goes towards the Proving Grounds where all types of things are done out there with NASA and the US Military. Getting to see all this and recollecting back toward what I saw as a kid is no where near the same as these night time operations. The second event is nothing to me, and I could share photos of these night time flares from the Goldwater Test range if you'd like

The only thing that I've seen that comes close to what I saw was what @R1600Turbo posted up in the Aviation thread I believe of an unknown high altitude stealth aircraft

I've only had one other incident that I couldn't explain but it was very different than a flying large aircraft in V-shape.

 

[PeterJB]

What I'm wondering is with all these sightings, why are they always so subtle? It's always a group of lights at night that could theoretically be anything. Or if it's during the day the object is so far away or the recording quality is so poor you can hardly tell what it is. Even when people claim to have witnessed aliens themselves, it's always only one or two people that do, usually at night, and in the middle of nowhere. If these really were aliens, unless they pride their stealth, you'd think that by now there would have been at least one sighting witnessed by hundreds of people within in a range to be an unmistakably not man-made aircraft.

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

In brief, I mean what the historical record shows. Our mutually shared belief systems - meaning mythology, religion, folklore, legend, popular culture, entertainment (and more) - have been and continue to be permeated and influenced by the "alien/angel/UFO" meme. We know this has been so for thousands of years.

The "phenomenon", whatever it is, adapts its outer form and symbolic communication to the prevailing culture and its level of technology. In the 19th century, UFO's looked like dirigible air ships, replete with ropes and anchors. In Vedic or biblical literature, they are described as flying chariots of fire, or wheels within wheels.

The phenomenon is NEVER caught, killed, trapped, or pinned down to study. It is elusive, but comes and goes as it does, staying on the edge of consciousness and influencing our beliefs much as a thermostat influences room temperature.

If they showed/revealed (at least...) their selves to our ancestors, why not to us more advanced humans? Are we different from them?

 

[Dotini]

...why are they always so subtle?

If they showed/revealed (at least...) their selves to our ancestors, why not to us more advanced humans?

Asking "why" is always the most difficult question, as it deals in motives, which can be inscrutable in humans, let alone aliens. I prefer to focus on "how". Even so, I will do my best to briefly answer your questions. The long version would require you to do a lot of reading, or me to make a giant post with lots of citations.

Over and over again, for years now, I have explained that the phenomenon operates on the physics of electromagnetism - the production and control of electric fields and magnetic fields to take shape, size, color and motion and other significant properties. The phenomenon has the ability to interact with human consciousness on an individual or mass level. Some of our own mad scientists can place an electrode-studded helmet over your head, twiddle some dials, and control your consciousness in a rudimentary fashion.

The apparent purpose or agenda of the phenomenon at a functional level can best be described as influencing our belief systems. It changes its outer shape to best adapt to human expectations and its own requirements. As the Qu'ran describes with the Djinn, it is a shapeshifter, able to appear as a vehicle (round, square, whatever), an animal (e.g., Bigfoot), or a semi-human (MIB, grey alien, Nordic alien, etc.).

The phenomenon has various levels of performance or capability. The most basic can be found in localized environments such as Hessdalen, Norway or Toppenish Ridge, Washington State, and can be studied there. In the basic form, the phenomenon is a ball of light, often orange. I have communicated with an individual government scientist who has photographed and studied the Toppenish Ridge phenomenon at extremely close range. His studies show a ball of orange light encapsulating numerous other glowing lights of various hues.

Edit: A final note on "why". I do not think the phenomenon is particularly intelligent, but rather wily and tricky, like a feral animal, and relies on the knowledge and experience of the human percipient to reflect intelligence back to the observer in a distorted way. I think the phenomenon is natural and has evolved right along with Earth for billions of years. So it is not alien in that sense. At the end of the day, it is nothing more than highly organized dust, ions and electrons.

 

[PeterJB]

So you don't believe that extra-terrestrial life has ever visited Earth during recorded history?

 

[Dotini]

So you don't believe that extra-terrestrial life has ever visited Earth during recorded history?

No, I do not. Not in the sense of Annunaki, Chariots of the Gods, or any of that. Physical extraterrestrial aliens with nuts-and-bolts ships have, in my humble opinion, never visited Earth during recorded history. It's a lie. Beautiful, maybe necessary, certainly useful, but still a lie.

That said, the Earthly UFO phenomenon can mimic ET saucers, right down to the Nazi uniforms seen in the Betty and Barney Hill abduction case. But it is a falsehood, a lie, a temporary conjuring or illusion.

 

[jimipitbull]

So you don't believe that extra-terrestrial life has ever visited Earth during recorded history?

I have a theory that Stephen Hawking is an alien, or rather, a powered exoskeleton controlled by aliens. He crash landed on Earth, the impact killed 4 out of the 5 crew members.

Otherwise, it would make a good movie

 

[ULTRAVIOLENZZ]

Asking "why" is always the most difficult question, as it deals in motives, which can be inscrutable in humans, let alone aliens. I prefer to focus on "how". Even so, I will do my best to briefly answer your questions. The long version would require you to do a lot of reading, or me to make a giant post with lots of citations.

Over and over again, for years now, I have explained that the phenomenon operates on the physics of electromagnetism - the production and control of electric fields and magnetic fields to take shape, size, color and motion and other significant properties. The phenomenon has the ability to interact with human consciousness on an individual or mass level. Some of our own mad scientists can place an electrode-studded helmet over your head, twiddle some dials, and control your consciousness in a rudimentary fashion.

The apparent purpose or agenda of the phenomenon at a functional level can best be described as influencing our belief systems. It changes its outer shape to best adapt to human expectations and its own requirements. As the Qu'ran describes with the Djinn, it is a shapeshifter, able to appear as a vehicle (round, square, whatever), an animal (e.g., Bigfoot), or a semi-human (MIB, grey alien, Nordic alien, etc.).

The phenomenon has various levels of performance or capability. The most basic can be found in localized environments such as Hessdalen, Norway or Toppenish Ridge, Washington State, and can be studied there. In the basic form, the phenomenon is a ball of light, often orange. I have communicated with an individual government scientist who has photographed and studied the Toppenish Ridge phenomenon at extremely close range. His studies show a ball of orange light encapsulating numerous other glowing lights of various hues.

Edit: A final note on "why". I do not think the phenomenon is particularly intelligent, but rather wily and tricky, like a feral animal, and relies on the knowledge and experience of the human percipient to reflect intelligence back to the observer in a distorted way. I think the phenomenon is natural and has evolved right along with Earth for billions of years. So it is not alien in that sense. At the end of the day, it is nothing more than highly organized dust, ions and electrons.

Ok...I think I now get what you're saying. Extraterrestrial beings uses, manipulate "nature" and "Earth's Physics" as means of communicating (influencing us)? Then...maybe they're more of dimensional beings rather than physical beings to do that "magickry"? Its like they have "administrative access" to the Universe's Innards. Like a god or...they're just a sophisticated bunch of very intelligent, highly advance, ultra complex physical beings. Also, I'm thinking maybe they're just human time travelers correcting their past, our present.

 

[Dotini]

Ok...I think I now get what you're saying. Extraterrestrial beings uses, manipulate "nature" and "Earth's Physics" as means of communicating (influencing us)? Then...maybe they're more of dimensional beings rather than physical beings to do that "magickry"? Its like they have "administrative access" to the Universe's Innards. Like a god or...they're just a sophisticated bunch of very intelligent, highly advance, ultra complex physical beings. Also, I'm thinking maybe they're just human time travelers correcting their past, our present.

You're very welcome to put your own take on it, since so little is truly known about it. I like the part I bolded.

My own take: it's a natural phenomena, quasi-intelligent in that it reflects distorted human consciousness back at us, and physical alien beings are not involved, nor are human time travelers.

If you want to get involved in the question of consciousness, here we may find something that is in part universal, and unites all beings into some kind of systematic relationship.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

What I'm wondering is with all these sightings, why are they always so subtle? It's always a group of lights at night that could theoretically be anything. Or if it's during the day the object is so far away or the recording quality is so poor you can hardly tell what it is. Even when people claim to have witnessed aliens themselves, it's always only one or two people that do, usually at night, and in the middle of nowhere. If these really were aliens, unless they pride their stealth, you'd think that by now there would have been at least one sighting witnessed by hundreds of people within in a range to be an unmistakably not man-made aircraft.

But there have been sightings witnessed by hundreds though most of time you'd be right.

 

[BHRxRacer]

I've been into astronomy and planes as a kid, and neither of those explain 3 sightings I had. Two of them in the same exact place, ~10 years apart. In one of them my friend was next to me in the car.

We do have the an American Naval base here, but I doubt they'll test top secret projects in this region.

Edit

I've also been at airshows, including the one from 6 months ago. Planes don't travel that fast, let alone in complete silence.

 

[kikie]

Entrance to an ET base underground?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I've also been at airshows, including the one from 6 months ago. Planes don't travel that fast, let alone in complete silence.

Airshow speeds aren't representative, you wouldn't see much of the planes and they wouldn't be around for long if they went full-bananas all the time.

Plus... the silence was your perception. A number of development aircraft blow the exhaust upwards and outwards, with fly-by-wire unmanned aircraft this is much easier to mitigate against with the control surfaces. The description of what you saw doesn't sound normal but than R&D craft aren't.

@kiki... I didn't play the vid... is it the Siberian Crater? My first thought when I saw it on the news this morning was "That'll be on GTPlanet later..."

 

[Dotini]

I remember that episode of Star Trek.

Actually the strongest influences on my opinion - other than my own direct experiences - have been Jacques Vallee and John Keel.

 

[Rhykus Finlay]

I used to look this sort of stuff up. At one point I just stopped though. If aliens are here, wonderful for them, I don't really care anymore.

 

[LeMansAid]

Lately I've been reading a book about mixing colors. There the author said we can't really define what "color" really is. Because color is different from person to person. The "red" we are looking at, at the same time are different not just between our eyes, but how our minds look to the color "red".

And that's not even contemplating that the colour could potentially change in reality and not just perception, when observed and not observed (think the Heisenberg uncertainty principle), and perhaps even different when observed by subject A compared to subject B.