America: are we too arrogant?
- Thread starter Jetboy.
- 445 comments
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wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
87 chevy and viper zero: you are not responding to me, you are responding to what your media tells you i think.
FIRST the only thing I said about 9/11 was #1 its over, #2 it was sad. Which it is, and it was. So any arguement with that so far?
Second my point about GDP i suppose wasnt taken in its intended context. Canada is rich too, but that wasnt my point, canada didnt use its wealth and power for argression against the poor and helpless. The point is you are the biggest the strongest and the richest, its not an insult at all, its a compliment. What im saying is that the iraqis are 100 times poorer and less advanced. You dont need to prove anything, be the bigger man so to speak.
I dont think Saddam should have been assassinated, i just think that it would have been better than the alternative of all out invasion and slaughter.
Have some empathy. American lives are no more important than an Iraqis. A couple 100 dead soldiers and 1000 civilians on 9/11 vs. half a million dead and a year of war.
And hell yes I think the "rebels" have a right to fight back, its thier country. As americans always say, Remember the alamo?
My point is still the same: grow up america, you cant just kill everyone who disagrees with you.
FIRST the only thing I said about 9/11 was #1 its over, #2 it was sad. Which it is, and it was. So any arguement with that so far?
Second my point about GDP i suppose wasnt taken in its intended context. Canada is rich too, but that wasnt my point, canada didnt use its wealth and power for argression against the poor and helpless. The point is you are the biggest the strongest and the richest, its not an insult at all, its a compliment. What im saying is that the iraqis are 100 times poorer and less advanced. You dont need to prove anything, be the bigger man so to speak.
I dont think Saddam should have been assassinated, i just think that it would have been better than the alternative of all out invasion and slaughter.
Have some empathy. American lives are no more important than an Iraqis. A couple 100 dead soldiers and 1000 civilians on 9/11 vs. half a million dead and a year of war.
And hell yes I think the "rebels" have a right to fight back, its thier country. As americans always say, Remember the alamo?
My point is still the same: grow up america, you cant just kill everyone who disagrees with you.
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
i just read another couple of your posts 87 chev and you called ME the moronic poster?!?!?!
Yes North Korea will fall without war, if you can keep you itchy yankee finger off the trigger long enough, for the same reason all communist countries fall...
You how can you defend war? Especially considering america is the "Axis" this time. The moral right is not about good vs. evil, its about nessesity. In WWII the allied world was defending itself.
Yes North Korea will fall without war, if you can keep you itchy yankee finger off the trigger long enough, for the same reason all communist countries fall...
You how can you defend war? Especially considering america is the "Axis" this time. The moral right is not about good vs. evil, its about nessesity. In WWII the allied world was defending itself.
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
Unknown to wellyrn, Canada's media is some of the worst, biased, and ignorant in the world. The Canadian public is not getting facts, but socialist opinions. Fortunately for the American media, there is two sides to the facts. We still get the facts, but spun two different ways, you choose the one you want to listen to.
So what that the Iraqis are "100 times poorer"? No one is attacking them, but the terrorists. We (the coalition) are helping the Iraqi people to govern their own country, away from the brutal dictatorship of Saddam. Being richer or poorer has no importance. Stop spinning, wellyrn.
Assassinating Saddam would have not been a great idea, for all the things I have already pointed out.
Where are you getting your numbers, wellyrn? Out of thin, Canadian air? As of June 18th, 952 Coalition deaths (confirmed) and 11,337 Iraqi civilian deaths (unconfirmed), even by the most liberal sources. How are you getting "half a million"?
87 chev is correct, you are a moronic poster, wellyrn. You have yet to post one fact. Please try harder next time.
So what that the Iraqis are "100 times poorer"? No one is attacking them, but the terrorists. We (the coalition) are helping the Iraqi people to govern their own country, away from the brutal dictatorship of Saddam. Being richer or poorer has no importance. Stop spinning, wellyrn.
Assassinating Saddam would have not been a great idea, for all the things I have already pointed out.
Where are you getting your numbers, wellyrn? Out of thin, Canadian air? As of June 18th, 952 Coalition deaths (confirmed) and 11,337 Iraqi civilian deaths (unconfirmed), even by the most liberal sources. How are you getting "half a million"?
87 chev is correct, you are a moronic poster, wellyrn. You have yet to post one fact. Please try harder next time.
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
I hope you both are just young and ignorant rather than grown men who can't hold up thier end of a debate with more than name calling and stereotypes.
500,000 was my rough estimate (because you dont do body counts) of total deaths, not just the 11,000 civs. who you didnt attack? i guess they all died from the comfort of your not attacking them.
you can say what you want about canada because its almost as american as america. if you think our media is socialist you dont know what you are talking about. most of our news is full of american stories.
if you think 2 viewpoints is enough you are fully indoctrined. the american system of government is just having a choice of 2 dictators which by the way has almost come to canada as well. we have the mid-right liberals and the ultra right conservatives who are just canadian democrats and republicans.
im not going to argue this anymore becuase you are living proof of all i know to be true about your systems faults.
500,000 was my rough estimate (because you dont do body counts) of total deaths, not just the 11,000 civs. who you didnt attack? i guess they all died from the comfort of your not attacking them.
you can say what you want about canada because its almost as american as america. if you think our media is socialist you dont know what you are talking about. most of our news is full of american stories.
if you think 2 viewpoints is enough you are fully indoctrined. the american system of government is just having a choice of 2 dictators which by the way has almost come to canada as well. we have the mid-right liberals and the ultra right conservatives who are just canadian democrats and republicans.
im not going to argue this anymore becuase you are living proof of all i know to be true about your systems faults.
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
The 11,000 number came from Iraqi civilians caught in crossfire and terrorist attacks. Source: http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
Obviously, two viewpoints is not enough, but that is how the media is. There are other viewpoints on the Internet, radio, newsgroups, etc., not just the normal newspaper and television media.
Could you please explain 'mid-right liberal'? I laughed so hard, I almost fell out of my chair.
You're not going to argue anymore? Normal drive-by Anti-American garbage. You post your propaganda, get confronted with the truth, and then run away screaming blasphemy because the Americans are right.
Obviously, two viewpoints is not enough, but that is how the media is. There are other viewpoints on the Internet, radio, newsgroups, etc., not just the normal newspaper and television media.
Could you please explain 'mid-right liberal'? I laughed so hard, I almost fell out of my chair.
You're not going to argue anymore? Normal drive-by Anti-American garbage. You post your propaganda, get confronted with the truth, and then run away screaming blasphemy because the Americans are right.
- 2,767
Could you tell me what exactly would make Canada media biased and ignorant, because I'd like to learn about this. And how you actually came to learn that? Current polls for the upcoming elections place the vote intentions are now equal between the Liberals and the the Conservatives. Conservatives are obvioulsly on the right side and, as funny as it may sound, yes, our liberal party is mildly leaning on the right side. So How come they're the current poll leaders in a country where the media are all "biased" in favor of socialism??Viper Zero
I'd agree that in French Quebec, we have a tendency to lean a bit more on the left, and we're a bit closer to European culture than the rest of Canada, so I guess we must be "biaised" in your views. Outside Quebec, what you see in the media is quite similar that what you see in American media - in both entertainment and news. Even living in French Montreal I often watch CNN, NBC and Fox News. And I don't see how you can call our media more ignorant or biaised in comparison. How often have you watched CBC or CTV News?
Where are you from exactly wellyrn?
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
You have no idea what you're talking about. Approximately 3500 US civillians and emergency personnel were killed on 9/11. ONE DAY.wellyrn
Approximately 10,000 Iraqi civillians have been killed in the year since the invasion, along with approximately 900 coalition soldiers. And many of those 10,000 have died as the result of bombings or shooting from terrorists ("rebels" as you romantically choose to call them), who are trying to prevent anything positive in Iraq. Note that they are targeting Iraqi civillians, electric power stations, and iraqi police facilities: they specifically do not want anything good to happen from the US occupation, even if it means they have to rpovide their own civillian deaths.
Please do share with us where you got this half a million dead number. You've mentioned it twice now. If you honestly believe that 500,000 Iraqis have died in the last 15 months, because of the coalition invasion, then you are so totally clueless that there is almost no point in continuing this discussion.
Actually, no, it's not their country. Most of the "rebels" are actually Muslim extremists who have come to Iraq since the invasion, for the sole purpose of making it as difficult as possible for us to turn over power to a new Iraqi government. They are coming from all over the Middle East in order to try to make Iraq into a hell they can blame totally on the US.
But terrorists can? Hooray for double standards.
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
"For more than 200 years, Americans have been escaping war and strife by heading north." - The Canadian Broadcasting Company
"These young men...are different from the Vietnam lot in that they weren't drafted. The United States itself is different in that it's worse. Such is a huge divide between rich and poor that these young people signed up so they could go to college. Little did they know that the man who stole the 2000 election would boast with that unnerving, uncertain grin that he was a 'wartime president.'" - The Toronto Globe and Mail
A Canadian citizen wrote to Bill O'Reilly:
Well, that's caused all kinds of angst in Canada. Thousands of letters have poured in. And we will read some of them to you in our mail segment, but one caught my eye.
Paul in Kingston, Ontario writes, "I feel real anger towards Canadian media people who are so blatantly anti-American. Please do not use my last name, I fear government reprisal."
More than a few Canadian e-mailers said the same thing. They're afraid of their government if they dissent from the anti-American party line.
Bill O'Reilly has two very interesting articles about how biased the Canadian media is.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118424,00.html (April 28, 2004)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118511,00.html (April 29, 2004)
"These young men...are different from the Vietnam lot in that they weren't drafted. The United States itself is different in that it's worse. Such is a huge divide between rich and poor that these young people signed up so they could go to college. Little did they know that the man who stole the 2000 election would boast with that unnerving, uncertain grin that he was a 'wartime president.'" - The Toronto Globe and Mail
A Canadian citizen wrote to Bill O'Reilly:
Well, that's caused all kinds of angst in Canada. Thousands of letters have poured in. And we will read some of them to you in our mail segment, but one caught my eye.
Paul in Kingston, Ontario writes, "I feel real anger towards Canadian media people who are so blatantly anti-American. Please do not use my last name, I fear government reprisal."
More than a few Canadian e-mailers said the same thing. They're afraid of their government if they dissent from the anti-American party line.
Bill O'Reilly has two very interesting articles about how biased the Canadian media is.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118424,00.html (April 28, 2004)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,118511,00.html (April 29, 2004)
- 2,767
Two articles and the whole media is totally ignorant and biased to the left. Fine analysis, I'm starting to love this guy. Is it surprising to see points of view against the war in Iraq in our media, since we decided to not partipate in it? I've seen as much anti-war editorials in american media.Viper Zero
Please, when you post something like that, write a warning before you do, I might be sipping coffee while reading, and my screen may not appreciate it at all. Wait a minute, I think I'll just make a few more rolls on the floor. ...aah, thanks, that really is the funniest thing I've ever read since I've joined these forums. Hey, I live in a province where the government was led by separatists that came close to their goals for about half of the time in the last 25 years... and guess what, no one ever got any kind of reprisal whatsoever. Yet this guy fears to give his name when giving his opinion about about a neighboring country? Thank you, I needed such a laugh after a really awful day... My girlfriend hates you and is mad at me btw, because I woke her up in the process...
. I wouldn't watch X-Files if I were "Paul in Kingston". However, we do have a Bill O'Reilly too on CBC, he's doing the sports section. Here he's called Don Cherry.I can't speak for him, but on this scale I guess he talks about the casualties caused indirectly by the economic sanctions on Iraq (wich I've seen evaluated between half a million and a little more than a million). Saddam Hussein obviously is to blame for them, but I think we can't really say we're not responsible at all for those (we - as not only America)
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
So, if I support legislation saying theft is illegal, and someone decides to kill his robbery victim instead of just stealing the money (so he wouldn't get identified), then I am not allowed to say I'm not responsible for that murder?jpmontoya
I don't see how you can say we are responsible in any way at all for the deaths of innocent civilians during the period of sanctions. It was entirely the Baathist regime's idea, decision, and fault for not complying with the terms of surrender when they lost the Kuwait war.
- 2,767
I don't see how that relates to Iraq. We've led some of its people to start a revolution against their government, knowing that this would not work without our help, and "would not work" in that case would mean being slaughtered for it. When Saddam backed off Kuwait, we just left him in power exactly when that would have been the best time to help them remove him. But hey, since we feared another Integrist government would take his place, we didn't do anything about it. Results? Slaughter for the failed rebellion, and then sanctions to punish Saddam. Yes, punish Saddam, because we thought he magically would start to behave himself, and he would try to prevent his people from suffering for his punishments
ur economical sanctions. Or maybe we had wishful thinking about another revolution that would work?
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
Yes.jpmontoya
The Canadian media continues to be Anti-American. The left wing media in this country (the United States) does it for political reasons, to push their ideology on the public, to elect their own into office. On the other hand, the left wing media in Canada does it to push their Anti-American ideology, to kick America's shin every chance it gets. If Canada's own citizens are crying foul, there is something terribly wrong with the media in Canada.
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
im from vancouver BC which is pretty much as liberal of a place as you can get.
i would definitely call the liberals mid right as they are definitely not left of center.
Canadians are very liberal people, more liberal than our government and the media reflects that at times. just because you dont agree with the views doesnt mean we cant have them.
I feel that people should have a right to live thier life however they want. America feels that it should force people to conform to thier views, the smaller or less heard the minority the more brutal the tactics used are.
3500 people is still less than 11,000 if my math serves me. also, you do understand that iraq and an al queda are not the same thing? you seem to just have a racist opinion. iraq has never commited terrorism against the US.
the reason you dont care is because you are on the gravy train, your views are the establishments and you dont care if blacks, muslims, gays, socialists and hispanics get thier rights trampled on.
the only reason you guys invaded iraq is for the oil.
i would definitely call the liberals mid right as they are definitely not left of center.
Canadians are very liberal people, more liberal than our government and the media reflects that at times. just because you dont agree with the views doesnt mean we cant have them.
I feel that people should have a right to live thier life however they want. America feels that it should force people to conform to thier views, the smaller or less heard the minority the more brutal the tactics used are.
3500 people is still less than 11,000 if my math serves me. also, you do understand that iraq and an al queda are not the same thing? you seem to just have a racist opinion. iraq has never commited terrorism against the US.
the reason you dont care is because you are on the gravy train, your views are the establishments and you dont care if blacks, muslims, gays, socialists and hispanics get thier rights trampled on.
the only reason you guys invaded iraq is for the oil.
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
Understand that the 11,000 number includes all deaths relating to the war, including victims of terrorist attacks and suicide bombings.
Iraq has supported terrorism in the past, had the capability, and launched attacks with WMDs. You can ask the Israelis and the Kurds about that.
Iraq and Al Qaeda did indeed have relations with each other. Everyone from John Kerry to the United Nations said they did. Most recently, Russian president Vladimir Putin said to the press that Russian intelligence gave information to the US, before the war in Iraq, that Iraq was planning to attack the United States in the US and US interests around the world.
Is Canada unwilling to fight terrorism? Since they don't support the war in Iraq, they must not.
Who's rights are we trampling on, wellyrn? No one said anything about any rights.
Funny how the Anti-Americans say we did it for the oil. All of Iraq's oil exports are helping to pay off Iraq's debt to the world. If we did it for the oil, how come our gas prices are still $2.49 a gallon? Funny isn't it?
Iraq has supported terrorism in the past, had the capability, and launched attacks with WMDs. You can ask the Israelis and the Kurds about that.
Iraq and Al Qaeda did indeed have relations with each other. Everyone from John Kerry to the United Nations said they did. Most recently, Russian president Vladimir Putin said to the press that Russian intelligence gave information to the US, before the war in Iraq, that Iraq was planning to attack the United States in the US and US interests around the world.
Is Canada unwilling to fight terrorism? Since they don't support the war in Iraq, they must not.
Who's rights are we trampling on, wellyrn? No one said anything about any rights.
Funny how the Anti-Americans say we did it for the oil. All of Iraq's oil exports are helping to pay off Iraq's debt to the world. If we did it for the oil, how come our gas prices are still $2.49 a gallon? Funny isn't it?
- 7,889
- SolidFro
- RRoDzaaah!
Uh... gas costs more in Germany? Of course, Germany has no way to produce enough oil for their population, so they import it. Your point is?
11. Launched missiles at American military aircraft in both No-Fly Zones
12. Shot down Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV)
13. Smuggled crude oil
14. Smuggled weapons
15. Aided terrorists to attack the USS Cole
Solid Lifters added these as well:Viper Zero
11. Launched missiles at American military aircraft in both No-Fly Zones
12. Shot down Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAV)
13. Smuggled crude oil
14. Smuggled weapons
15. Aided terrorists to attack the USS Cole
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
First off, I'm not complaining about gas prices.
Second off, that's existing oil reserves, not counting future developments.
Third off, yes, we're aware of it. We're also aware that Europe's high oil prices are caused largely by heavy taxation (which has nothing to do with the price of crude) and also that high crude prices in general are caused by OPEC-determined production limits.
So... your point is...?
Second off, that's existing oil reserves, not counting future developments.
Third off, yes, we're aware of it. We're also aware that Europe's high oil prices are caused largely by heavy taxation (which has nothing to do with the price of crude) and also that high crude prices in general are caused by OPEC-determined production limits.
So... your point is...?
- 2,767
I might refer you to this very amusing article about the relationships between Iraq and Al Quaeda, the parallel that's made here is quite funny. Note that I picked an American media site, since from our side of the border that would be considered as anti-American propaganda from the leftist biased media.Viper Zero
- 3,425
This welryn fella's seems to be living in a strange alternate universe. I read his post and marvel at his ability to distort embellish and decieve.
Its almost as if he's saying " here you go I'll throw up this wall of bullpoop and see if you guys can find time to debate it " Crap bullcrap and more crap...need waders just to read it.
At any rate I feel sorry for the guy, if he actually lived in the world he desribes he's got troubles.
- 1,271
wellyrn, your are a lost cause on this issue so i won't waste my time anymore either.
What i do find funny is this Canadian media thing. Apparently YOUR ENTIRE COUNTRY IS BIASED. Your conservatives and liberals are on the same side of the political spectrum. so obviously you are not exreme leftists, but you are getting biased media. I base this observation soley on the previous statements made by CANADIANS in this tread.
What i do find funny is this Canadian media thing. Apparently YOUR ENTIRE COUNTRY IS BIASED. Your conservatives and liberals are on the same side of the political spectrum. so obviously you are not exreme leftists, but you are getting biased media. I base this observation soley on the previous statements made by CANADIANS in this tread.
wellyrn
(Banned)
- 248
lost cause? im just a neutral 3rd party stating that america oversteps legal and moral bounds and gets away with it because of its power. Its easy to think you are doing the right thing, but have you ever wondered why Europeans, Canadians, Mexicans, Middle Easterners, Asians, hell, even the oxymoron of Un-American Americans are turning anti-american? Do think they just decided one day that theyd hate america?
- 3,165
- yeti_c
neon_duke
I'll second this... UK prices have recently been as high as £1.19 per litre and as low as 80p per litre...
85% of this goes to the government...
Therefore price per litre in this country is equivlalent to
12p per litre - 18p per litre... or 24cents - 36 cents per litre in US terms (Loose conversion rate of 2 dollars-1 pound) which is just shy of what the US Pays for petrol... (The difference is the tax that the US government takes (About 15% or so)
C.
Yeah, the oil prices in germany are going crazy. I mean, no wonder people rather ride the bike at around 1,20 (pretyt much the samei in dollars) for only a liter!
And now they want to put speed limit to 130kmh on highways! Because of the high oil prices. I dont get it, wheres the equivalance (man I spell that right?)?. I mean, fist this party raises the prices (they call themselves the Greens, die Grünen, throwup) and now they want to lower the speed limit.
anyways, were of target
And now they want to put speed limit to 130kmh on highways! Because of the high oil prices. I dont get it, wheres the equivalance (man I spell that right?)?. I mean, fist this party raises the prices (they call themselves the Greens, die Grünen, throwup) and now they want to lower the speed limit.
anyways, were of target
