America - The Official Thread

[merseyxshore]

It took until the end to realise this wasn't satire

 

[Tornado]

Oh boy, we've made Madison mad now. Dark MAGA is coming.

Madison Cawthorn vows to 'expose' fellow Republicans following election defeat: 'It's time for Dark MAGA to truly take command'

"We have an enemy to defeat, but we will never be able to defeat them until we defeat the cowardly and weak members of our own party," he said.

www.businessinsider.com

I'm not sure exposing some dastardly conspiracy of other Republicans would necessarily have the effect that he's intending, but definitely by all means accuse them all of being in Richard Branson's World's Worst Pedophile Ring or something. Make sure to raise another fuss about it right before November.

 

[R3V]

So just like in the Skinner cartoon, it's everybody else here that's wrong about why abortion shouldn't be delayed (and how Section 230 works, why the invasion of Ukraine is wrong, etc etc). None of these positions sound like American conservative talking points at all and even a closet Republican like Barack Obama would've agreed with you.

View attachment 1152022

Obama: More Moderate Republican Than Socialist

President Barack Obama believes that if he were president 25 years ago, his economic policies would make him a moderate Republican. During an interview with Noticias Univision 23, the network's Miami affiliate newscast, Obama pushed back against the accusation made in some corners of south...

abcnews.go.com

Do you want a list of policies that were more Romney and W Bush and less what he promised during his campaigns?

Oh and a guarantee of healthcare makes me sound like an American conservative? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[Danoff]

Do you want a list of policies that were more Romney and W Bush and less what he promised during his campaigns?

Romney, you mean the Romneycare guy? And Bush, you mean the prescription drug entitlement program guy?

 

[UKMikey]

Obama: More Moderate Republican Than Socialist

President Barack Obama believes that if he were president 25 years ago, his economic policies would make him a moderate Republican. During an interview with Noticias Univision 23, the network's Miami affiliate newscast, Obama pushed back against the accusation made in some corners of south...

abcnews.go.com

"I don't know that there are a lot of Cubans or Venezuelans, Americans who believe that," Obama said. "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

This doesn't sound like he was "governing as a Republican" to me. It sounds more like he's saying the centre had shifted rightward in the previous twenty years. Although not a radical socialist, he doesn't have much in common with today's ideologically led GOP.

Oh and a guarantee of healthcare makes me sound like an American conservative? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Nope; your support for draconian authoritarian abortion policies that needlessly criminalise women, unjustified Russian landgrab invasions and stringent content controls over private social media companies align with the positions today's Republicans (and not "80's Republicans") adhere to and promote.

 

[R3V]

he doesn't have much in common with today's ideologically led GOP.

No one does.

It sounds more like he's saying the centre had shifted rightward in the previous twenty years.

So...he's a right winger. The window can shift, but the direction does not. His policies are right wing. Just because Republicans went off the chart doesn't mean he's left or even center.

Nope; your support for draconian authoritarian abortion policies that needlessly criminalise women, unjustified Russian landgrab invasions and stringent content controls over private social media companies align with the positions today's Republicans (and not "80's Republicans") adhere to and promote.

My position on abortion is mainstream and crosses both right and left. It's neither republican nor democrat. My argument about late term is only disagreed upon by a fringe, who all happen to frequent this forum.

My position on Russia is shared by Noam Chomsky. Guess the guy who called the GOP "the most dangerous organization in human history" is a republican.

My position on social media (and what Republcans are going for now, purely for political gain) is also pro corporate regulation leftism. You're all arguing from the right about this with pure "property rights".

edit

@Famine why don't we have a spell check here?

 

[UKMikey]

So...he's a right winger. The window can shift, but the direction does not. His policies are right wing. Just because Republicans went off the chart doesn't mean he's left or even center.

I don't disagree he's right of centre. I'm saying the policies he governed on don't make him a Republican who would agree with any of your positions.

My position on Russia is shared by Noam Chomsky. Guess the guy who called the GOP "the most dangerous organization in human history" is a republican.

You: Russia are justified in invading and the other side should de-escalate. Finland and Sweden are wrong to join NATO to protect themselves.

Any country would feel antagonized if another country on its borders starts arming up. The situation is bad enough and I don't see any signs that Putin would invade Finalnd. Joining NATO at this point is just unnecessarily provacative. Remember what we say about police officers, it's better to de-escalate than escalate, even if the other person/party is in the wrong.

Chomsky: Putin has no excuse to invade. It's a war crime.

Before turning to the question, we should settle a few facts that are uncontestable. The most crucial one is that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is a major war crime, ranking alongside the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the Hitler-Stalin invasion of Poland in September 1939, to take only two salient examples. It always makes sense to seek explanations, but there is no justification, no extenuation.

Chomsky: US Military Escalation Against Russia Would Be Death Warrant for Humanity

Russia’s invasion is a war crime, Chomsky says, but the U.S. shouldn’t escalate this conflict between nuclear powers.

truthout.org

No mention of Finland or Sweden joining NATO.

 

[McLaren]

“About a third of our population is African American; African Americans have a higher incidence of maternal mortality. So, if you correct our population for race, we’re not as much of an outlier as it’d otherwise appear. Now, I say that not to minimize the issue but to focus the issue as to where it would be. For whatever reason, people of color have a higher incidence of maternal mortality.”

Louisiana Senator: Our Maternal Death Rates Are Only Bad If You Count Black Women

“If you correct our population for race, we’re not as much of an outlier as it’d otherwise appear.”

www.vanityfair.com

No need to mention what side of the aisle this ***hole is on.

 

[R3V]

You: Russia are justified in invading

Quote me.

 

[Populuxe]

Louisiana Senator: Our Maternal Death Rates Are Only Bad If You Count Black Women

“If you correct our population for race, we’re not as much of an outlier as it’d otherwise appear.”

www.vanityfair.com

“if you correct our population for race”
That’s the ultimate goal for white supremacists. Correct the population for race. He’s not coding his speech or using dog whistles. He’s saying it outright. “If we eliminate black people, then us white people will do a lot better.”

 

[R3V]

You: Russia are justified in invading

......

Any country would feel antagonized if another country on its borders starts arming up. The situation is bad enough and I don't see any signs that Putin would invade Finalnd. Joining NATO at this point is just unnecessarily provacative. Remember what we say about police officers, it's better to de-escalate than escalate, even if the other person/party is in the wrong.

It wasn't due to the lack of trying. We'll never know what would've happened if Ukraine just agreed to be neutral, but it's a step that should've been taken. I'm not justifying what Putin did, but if he's the evil POS everyone thinks he is, why not just avoid the trouble? You don't see a bear in the woods and **** with it, even if you're armed and can kill it easily.

Prior to the invasion, I would've said NATO shares 80% of the blame. The invasion itself, I find inexcusable given the reality of what was happening. So yes, Russia?

@UKMikey ridiculous accusation. You guys really do put me in a box and see me in that, rather than read what I say.

Also I just looked at the Texas proposal. There's a lot of extra things I didn't call for. Even then, it's not what you claim it to be. There's no real "oversight". Asking for a biannual report is not the government "looking at our data".

edit

Noam Chomsky google search results:

Literally the first one. My views on it are almost identical to his. NATO ****ed up when they didn't shut the door on neighboring countries, especially Ukraine. Bad as that may be, to Chomsky and myself the war was not the answer.


It's difficult to have a conversation when you keep attributing things I don't say to what I actually say.

 

[UKMikey]

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/russian-invasion-of-ukraine.303465/page-182#post-13727733

 

[Famine]

It's difficult to have a conversation when you keep attributing things I don't say to what I actually say.

 

[R3V]

BTW there's twice as many Americans in prison than there are Bahrainis. You could literally replace us with convicts. "Land of the free" it is not. Every time in the past 5 years or so I plan on visiting, I remember homeless people, crime, violent police and mass shootings.

Do you support measures in decreasing inequality (and subsequently crime) through government support, or is that too much government?

 

[Joey D]

BTW there's twice as many Americans in prison than there are Bahrainis. You could literally replace us with convicts. "Land of the free" it is not. Every time in the past 5 years or so I plan on visiting, I remember homeless people, crime, violent police and mass shootings.

Do you support measures in decreasing inequality (and subsequently crime) through government support, or is that too much government?

Population of Bahrain = 1.7 million
Population of the US = 330 million

The US has roughly 1.2 million prisoners, which means, by your calculations there are 600,000 Bahrainis in prisons or 35% of the population. By comparison, the US has .3% of it's population incarcerated.

Really there's about 4000 prisoners in Bahrain and that means about .2% of the population is incarcerated.

So really the incarnation rate on the US isn't that much worse, it's just that we have 200 times the population.

 

[R3V]

Population of Bahrain = 1.7 million

Only ~600,000 of which are Bahraini, which is what I referred to. Not counting immigrants.

by your calculations there are 600,000 Bahrainis in prisons or 35% of the

No no, I meant literally twice as many American prisoners as there are BAHRAINIS. As in, the whole Bahraini citizen population is half the US prison population.

Really there's about 4000 prisoners in Bahrain

It's only around ~2000 last time I saw an announcement. Even if you consider a "source" that was updated in 2017 such as this one, the incarination rate is 234. The US is 629, that's ~2.5x our rate.


Why are we even arguing the numbers? US is #1 in both rate and the raw number of prisoners. What do you put that down to, and what do you about it?

 

[Joey D]

Only ~600,000 of which are Bahraini, which is what I referred to. Not counting immigrants.

Immigrants are part of a country's population.

No no, I meant literally twice as many American prisoners as there are BAHRAINIS. As in, the whole Bahraini citizen population is half the US prison population.

Ok, that wasn't how you worded it, but I'll chalk that up to English not being your primary language. And once again, the US has 200 times the population of Bahrain. Still, when you look at the rate, it's really not that big of a jump since it's .3% of the US population and .2% of the Bahraini population.

It's only around ~2000 last time I saw an announcement. Even if you consider a "source" that was updated in 2017 such as this one, the incarination rate is 234. The US is 629, that's ~2.5x our rate.

It's upwards of 3,800 with 1,400 of those being political prisoners. Sorry, the source calls out those "alleged" human rights violation that you think don't exist,

Why are we even arguing the numbers? US is #1 in both rate and the raw number of prisoners. What do you put that down to, and what do you about it?

You brought it up?

And the US is #1 in known prisoners and incarcerations. There's no way the US has more prisoners than a place like China, Russia, or North Korea.

 

[Danoff]

Saying the quiet part out loud.

 

[UKMikey]

Saying the quiet part out loud.

The red hats are coming.

Turd Nugent must be crapping his pants at the thought of being enlisted.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

BTW there's twice as many Americans in prison than there are Bahrainis. You could literally replace us with convicts. "Land of the free" it is not. Every time in the past 5 years or so I plan on visiting, I remember homeless people, crime, violent police and mass shootings.

Do you support measures in decreasing inequality (and subsequently crime) through government support, or is that too much government?

You should visit and see for yourself. It's actually pretty great.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Didn't know exactly where to put this, but it's mind blowing.

Electric truck maker Rivian wants to bring thousands of jobs to rural Georgia — but some Republicans want the "woke corporation" to go back to California.

David Perdue, candidate for Governor of Georgia on his opposition to Rivian opening a production facility in Georgia:

George Soros-owned woke corporation whose stated purpose is to combat climate change.

That reads dangerously close to an endorsement of climate change.

It’s a woke California company whose mission is to turn the world green

GOP is the party of business?

Vernon Jones, the Trump-backed candidate in a crowded Republican primary for the area’s open congressional seat, wrote on Facebook that Rivian is “a company whose corporate attitude is seemingly inconsistent with Georgia values.” He pointed to the company’s vaccine mandate for employees and its “large focus on diversity & inclusion; including transgender benefits.”

Vaccine mandates are one thing, but you are criticizing a company for focusing on diversity and inclusion? Leaving aside the whole let businesses do what they want that has been the cornerstone of the GOP platform for 25+ years...is Jones advocating for the opposite for diversity and inclusion? You want employers to be exclusive? But...why?

My takeway is that the Perdue/Trump strain of conservatism has gone so inverted trying to be anti-democrat that they've managed to lodge themselves up their own ass. I mean...what is this nonsense? In the not so distant past, the GOP position on climate change seemed to be - well ok, but it's expensive to implement the societal changes. At worst it was, I don't agree with the science supporting climate change. Are we now honestly looking at a position of climate change is real, but fighting it is the woke thing to do, we'll do the opposite of that.

 

[GBO Possum]

"The US supreme court on Monday gutted constitutional protections that for years have provided a federal lifeline to innocent prisoners facing prolonged incarceration or even execution following wrongful convictions stemming from poor legal counsel given to them by the states.

In a 6 to 3 ruling, the newly-dominant rightwing majority of the nation’s highest court barred federal courts from hearing new evidence that was not previously presented in a state court as a result of the defendant’s ineffective legal representation.

The decision means that prisoners will no longer have recourse to federal judges even when they claim they were wrongfully convicted because their lawyers failed to conduct their cases properly.

The decision eviscerated the supreme court’s own precedent in a move that the three liberal justices called “illogical” and “perverse”. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Sonia Sotomayor slammed the decision, warning it would leave “many people … to face incarceration or even execution without any meaningful chance to vindicate their right to counsel”.

...as we slide into fascism...

https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...ourt-prisoners-ineffective-counsel-challenges

 

[Joey D]

Man, this is a tough one to see:

Texas governor: 15 killed in school shooting; gunman dead

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Fourteen children and one teacher were killed in a shooting at a Texas elementary school Tuesday, the governor said, and the 18-year-old gunman was dead. Gov. Greg Abbott said a local man opened fire at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, about 85 miles west of San Antonio.

apnews.com

I saw that CBP was involved too. I'm not sure if they just showed up to render aid and assist law enforcement or if there's something international at play here.

 

[05XR8]

This right here:

"These kids weren't unlucky. This only happens in this country. Nowhere else do kids go to school and think they might be shot that day."

 

[FuriousDemon]

Another ****ed up entitled **** with access to weapons shoots up a bunch of people and nothing other than “thoughts and prayers” will happen. Need to make weapon manufacturers pay a few billion per death, if it happens anywhere outside of private property of the gun owner, and I bet they’d think of some solutions real fast.

 

[05XR8]

Nothing will ever change. If there’s a “war on guns”, the USA would loose half their profits. No overtime for task forces and police officers, gun manufacturers lose money. States and local districts lose funding to fight gun violence, with less guns on the streets. Can’t risk too much peace or no one makes money.

 

[Blitz24]

Nothing will ever change. If there’s a “war on guns”, the USA would loose half their profits. No overtime for task forces and police officers, gun manufacturers lose money. States and local districts lose funding to fight gun violence, with less guns on the streets. Can’t risk too much peace or no one makes money.

Politicians care more about the money they can get from the gun manufacturers than they care about the children in the country.

 

[05XR8]

I’m not even desensitised to these shootings. There’s too many. Ridiculous number of school shootings. The one that I sort of remember, was in ‘85(one of the best years of my life). I was 14. I think it was in California, Washington or Utah. This girl shot her friend or boyfriend, at school and then killed herself.
It stuck with me because, I remember that summer, I had a summertime girlfriend and we didn’t see each other again when school started(she lived in Yonkers and I was a stones throw away, in The Bronx). After hearing about that incident, I thought about her and my family, if that would have happened to me.

Can‘t debate guns. That’s up to the people that buy them. This ain’t about protecting property or providing food for the family or liking feel, look and smell of them.

That quote I posted, the official said there have been 26 school shootings last year. I’m not even asking how. I know how. I’m not asking what can be done. I’m not going to play myself and give an answer. The USA won’t stop. Those politicians will keep their seats to continue debating how they‘ll put a stop to something they’re letting continue. It’s not even funny.

 

[TexRex]

Guys! Guns don't kill people!

...

People who play violent video games kill people!



The hat is right, you know. Arm the kids. The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a ten-year-old with a gun. Really, though--if kids were armed, fewer of them would be killed by adults...just...not for any reason that anybody can be happy about.

Didn't know exactly where to put this, but it's mind blowing.

Electric truck maker Rivian wants to bring thousands of jobs to rural Georgia — but some Republicans want the "woke corporation" to go back to California.

David Perdue, candidate for Governor of Georgia on his opposition to Rivian opening a production facility in Georgia:


That reads dangerously close to an endorsement of climate change.



GOP is the party of business?



Vaccine mandates are one thing, but you are criticizing a company for focusing on diversity and inclusion? Leaving aside the whole let businesses do what they want that has been the cornerstone of the GOP platform for 25+ years...is Jones advocating for the opposite for diversity and inclusion? You want employers to be exclusive? But...why?

My takeway is that the Perdue/Trump strain of conservatism has gone so inverted trying to be anti-democrat that they've managed to lodge themselves up their own ass. I mean...what is this nonsense? In the not so distant past, the GOP position on climate change seemed to be - well ok, but it's expensive to implement the societal changes. At worst it was, I don't agree with the science supporting climate change. Are we now honestly looking at a position of climate change is real, but fighting it is the woke thing to do, we'll do the opposite of that.

I posted on this over in the conservatism thread (which isn't to say it's the more appropriate thread) because this is a perfect distillation of modern American conservatism as mental illness.

Obviously a significant chunk of Perdue's significant wealth comes from oil investments and he's using messaging that he has good reason to believe will motivate the idiot base against that which will make a dent in his portfolio, even if it hurts them.

"The US supreme court on Monday gutted constitutional protections that for years have provided a federal lifeline to innocent prisoners facing prolonged incarceration or even execution following wrongful convictions stemming from poor legal counsel given to them by the states.

In a 6 to 3 ruling, the newly-dominant rightwing majority of the nation’s highest court barred federal courts from hearing new evidence that was not previously presented in a state court as a result of the defendant’s ineffective legal representation.

The decision means that prisoners will no longer have recourse to federal judges even when they claim they were wrongfully convicted because their lawyers failed to conduct their cases properly.

The decision eviscerated the supreme court’s own precedent in a move that the three liberal justices called “illogical” and “perverse”. In a dissenting opinion, Justice Sonia Sotomayor slammed the decision, warning it would leave “many people … to face incarceration or even execution without any meaningful chance to vindicate their right to counsel”.

...as we slide into fascism...

https://www.theguardian.com/law/202...ourt-prisoners-ineffective-counsel-challenges

Silver lining: The Court that is capable of overturning this precedent is capable of imposing harsher punishments on the wrongfully or improperly convicted.

(Yes, I know the Supreme Court doesn't actually impose sentencing.)

 

[Populuxe]

"Vernon Jones, the Trump-backed candidate in a crowded Republican primary for the area’s open congressional seat, wrote on Facebook that Rivian is “a company whose corporate attitude is seemingly inconsistent with Georgia values.” He pointed to the company’s vaccine mandate for employees and its “large focus on diversity & inclusion; including transgender benefits.”

In other words, they have a policy of treating everyone fairly and equally. No wonder dumb white people don't want that. It would mean they would have to actually compete for jobs instead of relying on their whiteness to give them an edge.