America - The Official Thread

[McLaren]

Man, this is a tough one to see:

Texas governor: 15 killed in school shooting; gunman dead

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Fourteen children and one teacher were killed in a shooting at a Texas elementary school Tuesday, the governor said, and the 18-year-old gunman was dead. Gov. Greg Abbott said a local man opened fire at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, about 85 miles west of San Antonio.

apnews.com

I saw that CBP was involved too. I'm not sure if they just showed up to render aid and assist law enforcement or if there's something international at play here.

Texas is not a point of contact state for the NICS. Texas has no law requiring firearms dealers to initiate background checks prior to transferring a firearm. As a result, in Texas, firearms dealers must initiate the background check required by federal law by contacting the FBI directly.1

Federal law does not require dealers to conduct a background check if a firearm purchaser presents a state permit to purchase or possess firearms that meets certain conditions. As a result, handgun license holders in Texas are exempt from the federal background check requirement when purchasing a handgun.

Background Check Procedures in Texas

Research Texas state laws on background check procedures, including what is regulated and what's not. Find related gun law details from Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence today.

giffords.org

Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott on Wednesday signed the permitless carry bill into law.

Texans can carry handguns without a license or training starting Sept. 1, after Gov. Greg Abbott signs permitless carry bill into law

Abbott, Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick and other Republicans who were initially noncommittal about the bill were under immense political pressure this session from conservatives and gun rights advocates, who have long lobbied the Texas Legislature for permitless carry.

www.texastribune.org

While the official minimum age to own and carry a gun in Texas remains 21, another law that came into effect in September allows people between 18 and 21 to buy a handgun if they otherwise meet the requirements to own one and are under an emergency protection order by a magistrate. According to the new rule, people who are under threat of family violence, including stalking, or forced prostitution, can submit a request for a gun license.

Recent laws made it even easier to own and carry guns in Texas

Governor Gregg Abbott—an enthusiastic promoter of gun ownership—signed 22 pieces of legislation that made it easier to buy, carry, and own guns in the state.

qz.com

We basically invite this to happen in this state. We're beyond ****ed.

Edit* Congressman for Arizona tells off Cruz. Not going to quote anything; it really is worth a click off the bat.

Congressman Skewers Ted Cruz's Response To Texas Shooting: 'You Are Useless'

"You care about a fetus but you will let our children get slaughtered," Rep. Ruben Gallego tweeted at the Texas senator.

www.huffpost.com

 

[TexRex]

 

[Joey D]

This right here:

Unfortunately, that statement is false. While school shootings are definitely exponentially higher in the US, they don't just happen in the US. I mean just last year, a gunman killed 6 and injured 48 in Perm, Russia and in 2019 two students killed 10 and injured 11 in Suzano, Brazil.

Still, it's likely difficult to tell just how safe/unsafe it is to go to school in the US compared to other parts of the world. Parts of the Middle East are ripe for terrorism and schools are sadly targeted by suicide bombers, especially if they're teaching female students. Christ only knows what goes on in China and given the state of Russia at the moment, they're probably conscripting anyone capable of holding an AK. So while violence is definitely a problem in US schools, it's not solely a US problem.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Unfortunately, that statement is false. While school shootings are definitely exponentially higher in the US, they don't just happen in the US. I mean just last year, a gunman killed 6 and injured 48 in Perm, Russia and in 2019 two students killed 10 and injured 11 in Suzano, Brazil.

Still, it's likely difficult to tell just how safe/unsafe it is to go to school in the US compared to other parts of the world. Parts of the Middle East are ripe for terrorism and schools are sadly targeted by suicide bombers, especially if they're teaching female students. Christ only knows what goes on in China and given the state of Russia at the moment, they're probably conscripting anyone capable of holding an AK. So while violence is definitely a problem in US schools, it's not solely a US problem.

 

[-Fred-]

Still, it's likely difficult to tell just how safe/unsafe it is to go to school in the US compared to other parts of the world.

School Shootings by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm not familiar with this website neither am I sure how accurate it is, but with the data on there I'd say it's pretty ****ing obvious just how unsafe it is.

 

[TexRex]

 

[FPV MIC]

School Shootings by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm not familiar with this website neither am I sure how accurate it is, but with the data on there I'd say it's pretty ****ing obvious just how unsafe it is.

I had a look at that site earlier and found if you follow their source the information is from 2009-2022 (edit: Correction, it was 2009-2018). But yeah, 57 times the other 6 G7 countries is pretty ****ing bad.

The US has had 57 times as many school shootings as the other major industrialized nations combined | CNN

There have been at least 288 school shootings in the US since January 1, 2009. That's 57 times as many shootings as the other six G7 countries combined.

edition.cnn.com

 

[Joey D]

School Shootings by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

I'm not familiar with this website neither am I sure how accurate it is, but with the data on there I'd say it's pretty ****ing obvious just how unsafe it is.

It's not that obvious though. While school shootings are definitely more prevalent in the US, violence comes in all shapes and forms. Assaults, stabbings, bombings, etc. all need to be factored in and looked at. While you might be more likely to be killed by a gun at school in the US, I'm guessing that you're more likely to be killed by an explosive device in Afghanistan.

The data also tends to not explain the school shootings either. Typically and form of shooting that happens on school grounds is considered a school shooting and only one person needs to have been shot. A gunman going in to randomly kill students is rare, however, two students in rival gangs who decide to settle a feud with guns are likely more common. Violence is also, likely, not reported in some countries either. I don't believe for an instance that there isn't a violence problem in Chinese schools. I mean for chrissake, the CCP rounds up Uyghurs and puts them in concentration camps.

My point is though, the statement that this is uniquely a US problem isn't correct. It happens in other places.

I'm not excusing the US here though. It's definitely an issue and one that needs to be solved, however, I don't have the answer on how to do that. You can't ban guns and making certain guns illegal is just going to increase the number of illegal guns instead of getting them out of the hands of criminals. The answer is likely destigmatizing mental healthcare and making it more available, but even then I'm not sure.

 

[Pupik]

Unfortunately, that statement is false. While school shootings are definitely exponentially higher in the US, they don't just happen in the US. I mean just last year, a gunman killed 6 and injured 48 in Perm, Russia and in 2019 two students killed 10 and injured 11 in Suzano, Brazil.

Still, it's likely difficult to tell just how safe/unsafe it is to go to school in the US compared to other parts of the world. Parts of the Middle East are ripe for terrorism and schools are sadly targeted by suicide bombers, especially if they're teaching female students. Christ only knows what goes on in China and given the state of Russia at the moment, they're probably conscripting anyone capable of holding an AK. So while violence is definitely a problem in US schools, it's not solely a US problem.

I'm not qualified to tell other countries how to run their shows. But I know my America and expect to be the so-called shining example these over-glitzed blowhards claim it is.

It's still dangerously sucky to be a public school student in America where legislators are actively restraining free thought, banning everything they can from school boards, poorly paying qualified instructors which creates weaker attitudes, using scare tactics to freak the crap out of a constituency through ignorance, feeding off pain through lies with disinformation without accomplishing anything worthwhile, deflecting failures with these poisoned culture wars, and doing absolutely N O T H I N G about stopping another school shooting because nobody wants to be unpopular with voters.

I wasn't that good at calculus, but this is approaching an infinite series of repeating events without any limits.

 

[McLaren]

The irony in that subhuman calling anyone else trash. White nationalist filth.

 

[Lain]

It's not that obvious though. While school shootings are definitely more prevalent in the US, violence comes in all shapes and forms. Assaults, stabbings, bombings, etc. all need to be factored in and looked at. While you might be more likely to be killed by a gun at school in the US, I'm guessing that you're more likely to be killed by an explosive device in Afghanistan.

The data also tends to not explain the school shootings either. Typically and form of shooting that happens on school grounds is considered a school shooting and only one person needs to have been shot. A gunman going in to randomly kill students is rare, however, two students in rival gangs who decide to settle a feud with guns are likely more common. Violence is also, likely, not reported in some countries either. I don't believe for an instance that there isn't a violence problem in Chinese schools. I mean for chrissake, the CCP rounds up Uyghurs and puts them in concentration camps.

My point is though, the statement that this is uniquely a US problem isn't correct. It happens in other places.

I'm not excusing the US here though. It's definitely an issue and one that needs to be solved, however, I don't have the answer on how to do that. You can't ban guns and making certain guns illegal is just going to increase the number of illegal guns instead of getting them out of the hands of criminals. The answer is likely destigmatizing mental healthcare and making it more available, but even then I'm not sure.

No, not all forms of violence need to be factored in. The argument isn't that gun access makes violence more common in the US, it's that gun access makes mass shootings more common... which is a problem because guns are far more effective tool for killing crowds of people than, say, a knife.

You're right that the statistics are probably inflated by incidents that aren't anything remotely close to resembling a mass shooting, though I imagine the US still reigns supreme even if you only counted mass shootings. And you're right that there certainly there are other effective ways that a deranged individual could go about killing crowds of people... bombs or setting a building on fire (a la Kyoto Animation), for instance... but do those things occur in the US or other countries anywhere near as frequently as mass shootings do in the US? I'm doubtful of that, personally.

 

[CodeRedR51]

 

[-Fred-]

My point is though, the statement that this is uniquely a US problem isn't correct. It happens in other places.

I agree, and that's not where I was going at all. The problem is it's so prevalent in the US, it's downright scary. I was born in 1980 and can easily tell you about every school shooting in Canada since I was born, because there's been 6 of them. The biggest one of all back in 1989, the Polytechnic School shooting in Montreal by some incel misogyn fighting feminism that killed 14 women, including one my mother was good friends with since high school. Not revelant to the current events, but I can tell you firsthand after having a discussion with her several years ago just how destructive to friends and family such an event can be.

There's probably been more than 6 shootings in Texas alone this year, and it's only May. And that's where the difference really is: up here it's a traumatic event that shocks the population for years, decades even. Down there it's another tuesday.

 

[UKMikey]

Gun Safety Policies Save Lives

Compares gun policy across 50 states. In states where elected officials have taken action to pass gun laws, fewer people die by gun violence.

everytownresearch.org

 

[Jezza819]

I suppose Alex Jones will deny this shooting ever happened too.

 

[McLaren]

I suppose Alex Jones will deny this shooting ever happened too.

Likely won't have the money to do so. His attempts to file "bankruptcy" in the Sandy Hook defamation cases didn't work.

The saga began when Jones sought bankruptcy protection for three of his business entities just one week before the first of two jury award trials were set to begin in Texas, where the parents of two slain Sandy Hook boys also won separate defamation cases against Jones last year.

The Sandy Hook families here and in Texas accused Jones of “bad-faith” bankruptcy filings, since the three businesses in question had a combined monthly income of $38,000. Jones himself made at least $76 million in 2019 through his conspiracy-based internet merchandise and broadcast platform, Infowars, his representatives said in court.

Last week, a federal bankruptcy judge in Texas released Jones from Chapter 11 protection and sent his defamation cases back to state court in Texas. The first jury trial to award damages was expected to begin as soon as June.

Sandy Hook families’ defamation damages trial against Alex Jones to move forward in CT

Representatives for Alex Jones and the Sandy Hook families reached an agreement in...

www.newstimes.com

 

[05XR8]

@Joey D This is the America thread and the statement was about the USA. I’m not blind to what’s happening around the globe. However, the place I was born and raised, that have worldwide influence on a great many things, a place that claims to be the greatest place on earth,… it ain’t. I posted it in the same way the statement that Steve Kerr made. It’s the land of the free and home of the brave. It’s been past time for the USA to show and prove. That’s the meaning of me posting. The USA politics are one of the main reasons why I left!

I’m past the race hate of people my skin tone. Past the mistreatment of people that knock on the door of the USA. Like I said, not here to debate gun rights, etc and I’m not debating what happens in other countries. Why debate that when it’s clear the event that happened today, been ongoing events out of control?

 

[Liquid]

Gun Violence Archive is a useful website with information and sources. I have linked it before but it's worth having a look at if you don't know about it.

GVA works under the criterion of a minimum of three injured people to be considered a mass shooting from what I remember. There is a methodology page on the site if you are curious about their calculations.

 

[kjeldsen]

Unfortunately, that statement is false. While school shootings are definitely exponentially higher in the US, they don't just happen in the US. I mean just last year, a gunman killed 6 and injured 48 in Perm, Russia and in 2019 two students killed 10 and injured 11 in Suzano, Brazil.

Still, it's likely difficult to tell just how safe/unsafe it is to go to school in the US compared to other parts of the world. Parts of the Middle East are ripe for terrorism and schools are sadly targeted by suicide bombers, especially if they're teaching female students. Christ only knows what goes on in China and given the state of Russia at the moment, they're probably conscripting anyone capable of holding an AK. So while violence is definitely a problem in US schools, it's not solely a US problem.

It really shouldn't matter at all what happens in other countries, one school shooting should be enough to change the laws. Those that are against strict weapons laws have the blood of these kids on their hands. They made it possible.

 

[Whitestar]

It is a bit telling that a website called Gun Violence Archive only covers one particular country...

 

[TheCracker]

Those that are against strict weapons laws have the blood of these kids on their hands. They made it possible.

Thoughts and prayers ...all the way to the bank.

 

[PeterJB]

I find hilarious this notion that America is the greatest country in the history of the world; but everyone should be armed in order to protect themselves against the civilians, police, armed forces, and government of the greatest country in the history of the world...

 

[Scaff]

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens​

It's been nearly a decade since The Onion first posted that headline, and yet enough morons still believe it's reality rather than satire!

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Shaun]

I find hilarious this notion that America is the greatest country in the history of the world; but everyone should be armed in order to protect themselves against the civilians, police, armed forces, and government of the greatest country in the history of the world...

I would perhaps use sad instead of hilarious but otherwise yeah.

 

[Blitz24]

Republicans will probably push to have campaign donations from organizations hidden, since it's fairly obvious they see guns as more valuable than children. As others have said, it looks like they want more children to be cannon fodder, whether it be in wars abroad or to be killed by domestic terrorists.

 

[Jezza819]

Republicans want to make it easier to own a gun but harder to vote.

 

[Pupik]

Republicans want to make it easier to own a gun but harder to vote.

No permit required to vote with your conscience. Well, not yet.

 

[McLaren]

Republicans will probably push to have campaign donations from organizations hidden, since it's fairly obvious they see guns as more valuable than children. As others have said, it looks like they want more children to be cannon fodder, whether it be in wars abroad or to be killed by domestic terrorists.

The whole bit is still on point today, but this was in 1996.

 

[Northstar]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again even though I’ll get flamed for it, nobody really wants this to stop. Every time this happens it’s a cycle, people yell at each other, maybe throw a little protest but at the end of the day will continue voting for the same Republicans that don’t even pretend to care about rights and Democrats that aren’t fit to manage a laundromat.

This what a 2-party “lesser of two evils” race to the bottom system looks like. Enjoy it America because no matter what letter is next to your name the blood is on all of our hands.

 

[Jezza819]

The whole bit is still on point today, but this was in 1996.

Yep, just watched the HBO documentary two nights ago which I highly recommend.