America - The Official Thread
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Danoff
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You'd think this whole step would be completely unnecessary. Sure, every news network is going to cover the most insane politicians out there. But then voters should immediately refuse to vote for those insane people from then on. The problem isn't so much that it's an act, or that it's getting covered, the problem is that voters like it.
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Just another day in America.
www.timesunion.com
Four women in a car, looking for a friend's house, pulled into the wrong driveway. At which point the 65 year old homeowner came out of the house and fired twice, striking a 20 year old woman in the car. Because there is no cell phone coverage, they had to drive six miles to the nearest town before they could call 911. Medics were unable to save her. The women in the car did not exit the car or threaten the homeowner in any way. They simply backed up to leave. And he shot them.
Saratoga County woman killed after turning into wrong driveway
Kaylin Gillis, 20, of Saratoga County was shot and killed Saturday evening after the car she was in turned onto the wrong driveway.
www.timesunion.com
Four women in a car, looking for a friend's house, pulled into the wrong driveway. At which point the 65 year old homeowner came out of the house and fired twice, striking a 20 year old woman in the car. Because there is no cell phone coverage, they had to drive six miles to the nearest town before they could call 911. Medics were unable to save her. The women in the car did not exit the car or threaten the homeowner in any way. They simply backed up to leave. And he shot them.
UKMikey
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Lynyrd Skynyrd vibes...Just another day in America.
Saratoga County woman killed after turning into wrong driveway
Kaylin Gillis, 20, of Saratoga County was shot and killed Saturday evening after the car she was in turned onto the wrong driveway.
Four women in a car, looking for a friend's house, pulled into the wrong driveway. At which point the 65 year old homeowner came out of the house and fired twice, striking a 20 year old woman in the car. Because there is no cell phone coverage, they had to drive six miles to the nearest town before they could call 911. Medics were unable to save her. The women in the car did not exit the car or threaten the homeowner in any way. They simply backed up to leave. And he shot them.
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ROAD_DOGG33J
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Man arrested in shooting of two Texas cheerleaders after one mistakenly got into the wrong car
One of the victims was critically injured in the shooting that unfolded early Tuesday outside an H-E-B supermarket in Elgin, Texas, police said.
www.nbcnews.com
- 11,862
- Marin County
****ing crazy. This guy probably feels entitled to kill people who even mildly startle him...I genuinely believe carrying a firearm produces a dangerous, reactionary mental state. Without the gun, the guy probably wouldn't have escalated this beyond yelling out something like "hey!!". Without the gun, a person has to evaluate the situation and make a rational choice - flee, communicate, fight, negotiate, etc. With the gun, the balance tips wayyy to far into a simple of dichotomy of kill or not kill, and a person in a moment of fear or anger will probably choose the former.Man arrested in shooting of two Texas cheerleaders after one mistakenly got into the wrong car
One of the victims was critically injured in the shooting that unfolded early Tuesday outside an H-E-B supermarket in Elgin, Texas, police said.
I point to this study again, because surely a similar effect could be produced by carrying a firearm.
Wearing a Bicycle Helmet Can Increase Risk Taking and Sensation Seeking in Adults
Joey D
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Sometimes sure, especially people who feel the need to carry multiple guns at one time or carry something so outlandish that it doesn't make any sense (i.e. a .50 Desert Eagle style pistol). When I carry though, it's a simple 9mm without anything fancy on it. I suppose you could say I'm a coward in that I don't want to fight back using my fists or whatever, but if someone is keen to carry out a violent act on my family or me, I'd rather have a gun than try to fight my way out of the situation using physical strength.
With that said though, I'm still of the opinion that a majority of people who carry guns have little to no training, so they wouldn't be able to do anything with it anyway. In order to carry a gun and be safe with it, you need to know what the hell you are doing and unfortunately, I believe most gun owners don't know what the hell they are doing. It takes practice to become proficient with a gun, which is why I only carry when I believe there's a possibility of an actual threat.
- 7,612
- Exorcet
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I think it's more like the person rather than the weapon that leads to an extreme outcome. You can find examples of unarmed people taking risks and acting rashly, and vice versa. I've used firearms growing up, and while I don't carry one I still like to be very wary of my surroundings so I can take appropriate and safe action in the unlikely event that I need to react to an unexpected situation. I've also noticed that while I can exaggerate potential threats in some situations, I also tend to hesitate on reacting to these exaggerations because I know better. If someone wants to wants to act violently from the beginning, they are probably someone not in the habit of planning things out or evaluating their situation.
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I'm just saying, don't discount the effect that carrying* a firearm can have on a person's decision making and mental state because I cannot believe it has no effect. And yeah, I agree, different people react differently to situations and perhaps some people** shouldn't be carrying guns - like this knuckledragger, for instance. I've owned quite a few guns but its never even crossed my mind to actually carry one...that just seems like such incredibly unnecessary thing to do unless you have a specific reason for defense (like a stalker) or you deliberately put yourself in bad situations, which isn't a good reason at all to carry. I suspect that the guy in the article carries for self-image reasons and because it makes him feel like a man, whatever that means.
*I'm differentiating here between owning (for sporting/collecting reasons or personal defense at home) and carrying, because I think they are distinct attitudes towards guns
**I'm gonna include cops in this, although really, those people fitting the description shouldn't be police either.
I disagree with this to an extent and here's why. I firmly believe that if this individual did not have a gun, this whole episode would have been a non-event. Worst case scenario, he gets out and runs over to the other vehicle in a screaming rage and then realizes it's just a couple of teenage girls who pose absolutely zero threat. This was not something like a pre-planned school shooting, it was a ephemeral moment of uncontrolled ragetitlement (conflating rate and entitlement here) and convenient access to a firearm. You say those are separate, but I think the firearm carrying is wrapped up in and inseparable from the psychological profile of this person. You say its a person problem, but I say it's a person too immersed in gun culture problem.
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- 7,612
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Your stance is certainly reasonable. I just see it as a secondary effect. However if the primary effect is there (impulsiveness, violent tendencies, etc) carrying the gun can become a multiplier increasing the likelihood of a bad outcome.
I agree here as well. I've only considered owning a gun for sport. Owing a gun for protection is valid, but I've never felt like that is necessary in the US.
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This is what I think is so reckless about "constitutional carry" policies in states like Texas. I never held a CHL (see above) which was required to carry a handgun in Texas when I lived there, but I remember watching videos about that training. A lot of it involves de-escalation and situational analysis. Those are pretty relevant topics to have training in if you are carrying around a firearm, IMO. If you pull out a gun at the first moment of stress, that is a poor use of a firearm because it is likely to escalate from there, particularly if the other person is also constitutionally carrying.
A younger version of myself thought it might be cool to carry an M1911, but never did that feeling reach the threshold of "need" and the effort required to get that CHL was a higher bar than I was willing to meet for effectively no reason. I don't think I would have actually carried, but if I did, I imagine it would have had some impact on how I approached situations, even if subtlety. So how many people are out there in states like Texas carrying handguns because it's cool or because it gives them a confidence boost? Its now easier than ever, so I'm guessing not zero.
Edit: I'm gonna try to make a point here. We need smarter gun regulation in this country but unfortunately we seem to be trending towards dumber and more reckless gun policy. And the reasons are also stupid, it's all identify politics and grandstanding defiance of "the left". Constitutional carry is not some kind of high minded intellectual framing of the 2A, it's attention seeking top to bottom, from the people out there utilizing the policy on the street, to the bureaucrats scoring political points in the state capitals. It's dumb and purposeless policy otherwise.
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Danoff
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He's crazy and a murderer. It's clear that he should not have had a gun... at all... not just in public. The implication of what you're arguing is that there is no way to keep guns out of the hands of someone like him without preventing people from carrying in public... or something similar. I don't know him well enough to comment on that.
Keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people is very difficult. But it does appear to be a problem that we're faced with.
To adopt a child, we had to invite (and pay for) a social worker to evaluate myself and my wife (and to a lesser extent our kids), repeatedly, and intensely, from a psychological perspective. We were scrutinized both together and individually on every aspect of our lives, including sex life, pornography consumption, firearms, and the strength of our relationship with each other. This was done over the course of years. The social worker got to know us, and we got to know her. This was done because of the great responsibility we were undertaking by adopting a child into our family. But it is no less responsibility to raise a biological child. And it is no less responsibility to carry a gun in public. It is no less responsibility to be a member of the police force.
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- 87,336
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Just to keep myself up to speed more than anything else, with the punishments for the following acts:
Knocking on someone's door uninvited: Death
Reversing into someone's driveway: Death
Getting into someone else's car by mistake: Death
Your basketball lands in someone else's yard: Death to you and your entire family
www.independent.co.uk
Knocking on someone's door uninvited: Death
Reversing into someone's driveway: Death
Getting into someone else's car by mistake: Death
Your basketball lands in someone else's yard: Death to you and your entire family
Girl, 6, and parents shot after basketball rolls into neighbours garden
Authorities say Robert Louis Singletary, 24, is ‘armed and dangerous’ after incident in North Carolina
www.independent.co.uk
Danoff
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[/color][/b]Girl, 6, and parents shot after basketball rolls into neighbours garden
Authorities say Robert Louis Singletary, 24, is ‘armed and dangerous’ after incident in North Carolina
It's another example of someone who just decided to murder people he (it's always he) didn't know one day. Good that he's going to jail, but I do wish attempted murder had been more difficult for him somehow.
UKMikey
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He knew he was committing a crime otherwise he wouldn't have gone on the run.
There's a bunch of where's-the-outrage comments on Twitter owing to the race of the shooter and victims from the kind of people who had little outrage to spare for the previous shootings.
There's a bunch of where's-the-outrage comments on Twitter owing to the race of the shooter and victims from the kind of people who had little outrage to spare for the previous shootings.
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HenrySwanson
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UKMikey
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It's an epidemic!
FACT FOCUS: No 'incredible rise' in transgender shooters
Moments after the assailant who killed six people at a Nashville private school was identified as transgender, a baseless narrative emerged that there has been an incredible rise in transgender or nonbinary mass shooters in recent years. Specific data on transgender and nonbinary mass shooters...
apnews.com
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It's an epidemic!
FACT FOCUS: No 'incredible rise' in transgender shooters
Moments after the assailant who killed six people at a Nashville private school was identified as transgender, a baseless narrative emerged that there has been an incredible rise in transgender or nonbinary mass shooters in recent years. Specific data on transgender and nonbinary mass shooters...
Rise as in we knew of none before, and now there's one. L'Hôpital's rule says this is like an almost-infinity times increase and that's just me making up statistics by using a French mathematician's name to look smart.
Whattayaknow, there's all sorts of different kinds of people creating mass shootings, but let's not focus on the surprisingly easy access to weapons.
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