America - The Official Thread

[Johnnypenso]

If Cruz is born in any American embassy, that is considered American soil in regards to International law.

With any luck some Canadian rubbed off on him and he'll be the greatest president since Ike

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And liberal/socialist governments only governing for the liberal/socialist population isn't a problem?

Of course it would be. I only mentioned conservatives because Cruz is a conservative.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

In British law "Natural Born" is taken to mean "in liege to", therefore a child born abroad to a "home" citizen can be considered to be natural-born.

The US constitution naturally picks up that definition... so with regret Cruz is eligible. Shudder.

What if he had been born in Kenya?

 

[Lizard]

If Cruz is born in any American embassy, that is considered American soil in regards to International law.

Erm no it isn't.




Also.

http://countercurrentnews.com/2015/...-her-on-twitter-even-though-he-actually-does/

 

[DK]

With any luck some Canadian rubbed off on him and he'll be the greatest president since Ike

If any Canadian did rub off on him, he wouldn't be a young Earth creationist.

 

[FoolKiller]

If any Canadian did rub off on him, he wouldn't be a young Earth creationist.

I love this idea the world has that Canada doesn't have crazy/stupid people.

Case 1: Pamela Anderson

Case 2: Rob Ford

Case 3 (and closing argument): Justin Bieber.

 

[DK]

At least Canada doesn't have the problem of having a massive contingent of young Earth creationists as legislators...or as the chairperson of their government's science committee.

 

[FoolKiller]

At least Canada doesn't have the problem of having a massive contingent of young Earth creationists as legislators...or as the chairperson of their government's science committee.

1) Define massive. If you believe unsourced Internet blogs then all Republicans (or non-Democrats) are creationists.

2) Considering the person we are talking about came from Canada, it sounds like they are outsourcing their problem.

 

[Dennisch]

he wouldn't be a young Earth creationist.

You can't take people who think that serious.

 

[DK]

1) Define massive. If you believe unsourced Internet blogs then all Republicans (or non-Democrats) are creationists.

Well, OK, I guess I'm extrapolating it from the figure given by a 2013 Pew Research survey, which said 48% (+/-4.7%, the margin of error based on 1/n^-2, where n=455) of Republicans believed that humans were created in their present form:

 

[Johnnypenso]

Well, OK, I guess I'm extrapolating it from the figure given by a 2013 Pew Research survey, which said 48% (+/-4.5%, the margin of error based on 1/n^-2, where n=488) of Republicans believed that humans were created in their present form:

And 54% of Democrats believe people popped into being as is, or their evolution is the result of a guiding hand. Does that also qualify as massive?

 

[Dotini]

Please allow me to interject a side note into this polite discussion which lit upon the phrase, "young earth creationists".

Some might want to distinguish between the two as separate concepts, in light of this interesting science article which considers the Earth as having been created well after the creation of the original solar system.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2015/03/24/4201835.htm

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/03/18/1423252112

 

[DK]

And 54% of Democrats believe people popped into being as is, or their evolution is the result of a guiding hand. Does that also qualify as massive?

Yes, but of that 54%, half of them believe in "theistic evolution" (something akin to what mainstream, non-fundamentalist/Biblical literalist churches believe in) while 68% of Republicans believe in either theistic evolution or young Earth creationism, of whom only 30% believe in theistic evolution.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes, but of that 54%, half of them believe in "theistic evolution" (something akin to what mainstream, non-fundamentalist/Biblical literalist churches believe in) while 68% of Republicans believe in either theistic evolution or young Earth creationism, of whom only 30% believe in theistic evolution.

The relative numbers are 54% Democrat and 68% Republican in terms of God being involved in our evolution. It's only a 14% difference. It's not like it's night and day.

 

[DK]

The rates for young Earth creationism among Democrats and Republicans are 27% and 48% respectively, and if we're to get pedantic, I wouldn't say those people would say God was involved in our evolution, because they believe it didn't happen. If the difference between the rates of belief in young Earth creationism between the two main parties was within the margin of error (+/-4.7% for Republicans, +/-3.7% for Democrats) then it would be hard to tell which party has the bigger problem with fundamentalism, but that's not the case.

 

[FoolKiller]

Well, OK, I guess I'm extrapolating it from the figure given by a 2013 Pew Research survey, which said 48% (+/-4.7%, the margin of error based on 1/n^-2, where n=455) of Republicans believed that humans were created in their present form:

You said legislator. Even with this, 43% vs 48% with a 4.7% margin of error is not massive by any definition other than hyperbolic rhetoric. If I am missing something, a link to the study would have been helpful.

Your poll also does not distinguish between YEC and just creationists in general. There is a difference and it would serve you well to know what that difference is.



EDIT: Following up on massive. Even if that were legislators in the study, the 48% represents one group, not all legislators.

 

[DK]

I was just theorising that Republican legislators were more likely to believe in young Earth creationism than their Democrat counterparts. It would be very time-consuming to go through the entire body of legislators, from state legislatures to Congress and count how many Republican and Democrat legislators believe in young Earth creationism.

 

[FoolKiller]

Do you mean young Earth creationism or just creationism in general?

And more likely to believe is far, far from massive. Other Republicans and conservatives are speaking out against Cruz. He is not representative of the party, and is considered too extreme right-wing for many of them and many conservative pundits.

It is also hard to determine an individual legislator's personal beliefs when votes are not based on one issue that narrow. Young Earth creationists might vote for a guy who talks about religious values because he is the lesser of two evils. He could also get the vote from atheists or agnostics who don't agree with Democrats on financial issues or homosexual marriage.

Lumping everyone into one tight prejudiced bubble is just playing the same game the politicians do.

 

[Sanji Himura]

BREAKING NEWS: Bowe Bergdahl to be charged with Desertion and Misbehavior Before The Enemy, according to his attorneys speaking with CNN. A formal announcement is expected at 3:30 pm EDT from Fort Bragg.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/bowe-bergdahl-decision-prisoner-exchange-explainer/index.html

 

[Johnnypenso]

BREAKING NEWS: Bowe Bergdahl to be charged with Desertion and Misbehavior Before The Enemy, according to his attorneys speaking with CNN. A formal announcement is expected at 3:30 pm EDT from Fort Bragg.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/25/politics/bowe-bergdahl-decision-prisoner-exchange-explainer/index.html

Cool, I hope the traitor gets what he deserves.

 

[Keef]

Policies I would enact if I were America's dictator:

Another thing I would do is round up every government employee who was either in charge of or participated in any sort of rights violations, charge them with the appropriate crimes, and throw them in jail. I'm reading How it Feels to be a Problem right now and the first story details an Arab family that was detained after 9/11, just like Japanese folks after Pearl Harbor, and spent 3 months in jail without being charged with any crime, a clear violation of their 4th Amendment rights, besides violating their basic human rights. I'd round up the individual FBI agents responsible and dole out felonies like they were candy. I wouldn't stop rounding them up until people were actually scared to work for my government, for fear they might make a mistake and learn the hard way the responsibility entrusted to a representative of the government. Former presidents would be jailed. Probably 90% of the current Congress. Even Supreme Court justices. Thousands of FBI and CIA agents, police officers, etc. Anybody in a position of authority within the US. Anybody who had the option to quit their job but continued anyway. It would be like rounding up former Nazis and sending them all to trial.

EDIT: Former Attorney General Ashcroft is responsible for changing detention rules to state people can people be held for an unspecificed "reasonable" amount of time in "emergency" situations. He'd make a good poster child.

 

[McLaren]

Another thing I would do is round up every government employee who was either in charge of or participated in any sort of rights violations, charge them with the appropriate crimes, and throw them in jail. I'm reading How it Feels to be a Problem right now and the first story details an Arab family that was detained after 9/11, just like Japanese folks after Pearl Harbor, and spent 3 months in jail without being charged with any crime, a clear violation of their 4th Amendment rights, besides violating their basic human rights. I'd round up the individual FBI agents responsible and dole out felonies like they were candy. I wouldn't stop rounding them up until people were actually scared to work for my government, for fear they might make a mistake and learn the hard way the responsibility entrusted to a representative of the government. Former presidents would be jailed. Probably 90% of the current Congress. Even Supreme Court justices. Thousands of FBI and CIA agents, police officers, etc. Anybody in a position of authority within the US. Anybody who had the option to quit their job but continued anyway. It would be like rounding up former Nazis and sending them all to trial.

EDIT: Former Attorney General Ashcroft is responsible for changing detention rules to state people can people be held for an unspecificed "reasonable" amount of time in "emergency" situations. He'd make a good poster child.

Comparing rounded up Government officials to Nazis under your fantasy dictatorship. And here I wasn't sure you'd spout anything sillier than wanting drinking & driving legalized.

You would exercise your power by spreading fear into your employees the same way people believe the current govt. spreads fear into society by doing whatever it wants. Tad ironic, but then again, you'd probably suffer the end of a Tropico game in 6 months.

 

[Omnis]

Another thing I would do is round up every government employee who was either in charge of or participated in any sort of rights violations, charge them with the appropriate crimes, and throw them in jail. I'm reading How it Feels to be a Problem right now and the first story details an Arab family that was detained after 9/11, just like Japanese folks after Pearl Harbor, and spent 3 months in jail without being charged with any crime, a clear violation of their 4th Amendment rights, besides violating their basic human rights. I'd round up the individual FBI agents responsible and dole out felonies like they were candy. I wouldn't stop rounding them up until people were actually scared to work for my government, for fear they might make a mistake and learn the hard way the responsibility entrusted to a representative of the government. Former presidents would be jailed. Probably 90% of the current Congress. Even Supreme Court justices. Thousands of FBI and CIA agents, police officers, etc. Anybody in a position of authority within the US. Anybody who had the option to quit their job but continued anyway. It would be like rounding up former Nazis and sending them all to trial.

EDIT: Former Attorney General Ashcroft is responsible for changing detention rules to state people can people be held for an unspecificed "reasonable" amount of time in "emergency" situations. He'd make a good poster child.

 

[Liquid]

@Keef Out of interest, who is the worst offender?

 

[Keef]

@Keef Out of interest, who is the worst offender?

I'm actually more interested in the boots on the ground who executed the policies. Those are the people who could have simply said "no" and walked away. A policy is nothing without people to enforce it. Even the politicians who came up with it are powerless to enforce it without people on the ground doing the work. Anybody who works for the government and doesn't refuse to do plainly immoral and illegal work is an asshole who needs to be punished on the level of what they did.

 

[Dennisch]

I'm actually more interested in the boots on the ground who executed the policies. Those are the people who could have simply said "no" and walked away. A policy is nothing without people to enforce it. Even the politicians who came up with it are powerless to enforce it without people on the ground doing the work. Anybody who works for the government and doesn't refuse to do plainly immoral and illegal work is an asshole who needs to be punished on the level of what they did.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm actually more interested in the boots on the ground who executed the policies. Those are the people who could have simply said "no" and walked away. A policy is nothing without people to enforce it. Even the politicians who came up with it are powerless to enforce it without people on the ground doing the work. Anybody who works for the government and doesn't refuse to do plainly immoral and illegal work is an asshole who needs to be punished on the level of what they did.

How would you distinguish between those who knew and those who were brainwashed to believe they were doing the legal and moral thing? And those who were attempting to create change from within?

 

[Omnis]

I'm actually more interested in the boots on the ground who executed the policies. Those are the people who could have simply said "no" and walked away. A policy is nothing without people to enforce it. Even the politicians who came up with it are powerless to enforce it without people on the ground doing the work. Anybody who works for the government and doesn't refuse to do plainly immoral and illegal work is an asshole who needs to be punished on the level of what they did.

If you're going to be that way, then you must also hold that working for the government is in itself immoral.

Otherwise you must be physically removed.



So to speak.

 

[Keef]

Earlier I mentioned employees within the US (the military does not deploy within the US) who are able to quit their jobs. Soldiers aren't able to simply quit. In fact, clear policies exist which punish soldiers for standing up against immoral actions by the military. But cops can quit, FBI agents can quit, etc.

How would you distinguish between those who knew and those who were brainwashed to believe they were doing the legal and moral thing? And those who were attempting to create change from within?

If you are able to quit your job then how on earth did you get to the point of submitting to brainwashing? If a person is okay with being brainwashed that's a red flag right there.

If you're going to be that way, then you must also hold that working for the government is in itself immoral.

So to speak.

I get the joke. But it isn't immoral. The government's job is to defend the rights of the people and it must employ people to do that.

As America's dictator, I don't know if I'd be concerned about the details. Now, if I was the President it would be different. I'd be forced to send these people to trial. Unfortunately, laws exist which would allow my own investigations and trials to be conducted in an immoral and illegal manner which renders the whole thing pointless. That's why I'm taking the dictator approach. Libertarian dictator. That doesn't make any sense on the surface but once you start enforcing the protection of life, liberty and property and penalizing anybody who does not adhere to those simple moral concepts it begins to make sense.

I'm just freaking tired of government immunity. It seems they believe they can do no wrong and it pisses me off and makes me want to buy lots of guns and ammo. I'm kinda nervous I'll need it within my lifetime. This is what American youth is growing up with. Your daughter is going to see even more of it than me. @FoolKiller Teach that girl how to speak convincingly, and also how to shoot.

 

[FoolKiller]

If you are able to quit your job then how on earth did you get to the point of submitting to brainwashing? If a person is okay with being brainwashed that's a red flag right there.

The trick to brainwashing or indoctrination is to not let the subject know that they are being brainwashed.

The mouse does not know it is being trained.